Make more overland content like Shada's Tear (in other zone than Craglorn) !

Fhritz · August 2021

Hi !

With the ongoing even in Craglorn I gave another chance to some area, like Shada's tear. And while I was doing this dungeon (in solo), I eventually find it pretty enjoyable ! Each boss has mechanics, the difficulty was balanced, and some boss even killed me because I underestimated them ! Then, after beating Shada and finishing this quest, I thought "This content is great !". Unfortunately, outside Craglorn, there isn't anything like this in overland.

And I think that's why a lot of players find Overland boring : it lacks of difficulty ! I think each zone (or at least some zone) should at least have one of these "group" area or something similar for solo player who want some challenge ! It should be great for both casual and veteran - Casual can still do this area in a group, or even in solo since they aren't that hard and veteran can find some challenges other than arenas to do in solo !

What do you think ?

ADarklore · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

Vhozek · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

Anything is better than what we currently have.
Everyone always speaks for the new players and what they feel but you never see the new players complaining ingame nor in the forums.
Implying there are even new players.
I've invited like 4 people to play before and they never stuck around after that first day. 3 of them who were looking for another MMO to play and instead 2 went to FF14 and the other went back to his old game. The 4th person was new to MMOs and went back to playing other genres. There is something fundamentally wrong with this game.

Fhritz · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

Yes, Craglorn WAS a dead zone. But ZoS managed to change this, and made a batter version of this zone. Sure, it cost $$$ to make these sorts of area, but I'm sure that if some area like this came out in various region, dlc or not, it'll make some interest toward these regions (Like the antiquities system, something that both casual and veteran can enjoy). Overland is meant to be solo, and I think a lot of players actually want some challenge outside of arena (other than MA and VH), trials and dungeon . Not only on the forums, but in Reddit too. I even asked both in Discord AND IRl friend and most of the time they told me that eso overland was too easy and borderline boring.

When Vateshran was first announced, everyone was hyped and eventually almost everyone loved it. Since these areas are "Arena-like" in a smaller scale, I doubt that no one will be interested. I understand your point tho, you aren't entirely wrong ^^

Vhozek · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

Difficult overworld was never given a fair chance. The game had a couple thousand players at launch and they based their decisions for One Tamriel around those few people. The game then gained a ton more players after relaunching. I had completely forgotten about ESO up until they announced One Tamriel. We can only attribute the increase in players at that point to the relaunch, not the decrease in difficulty. [snip]
Craglorn did bad because anyone looking for an interesting overworld didn't make it past their starting zone and never made it to Craglorn. The people who did, made it to Craglorn because the game allows you to make it literally anywhere unscathed and Craglorn was the only test they faced.

[snip]
[edited for discussing moderator action]

Parasaurolophus · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

Adventure zone doesn't have to be balanced for the group. It needs to be balanced for a solo, but it needs to be harder.

Soulshine · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

I was here since before launch, so I played the zone when it first released. It was far from a dead zone, we just had a lot fewer players in game than we do today for one, and for another the game back then did not allow you to just pop into any zone. A lot of players were still slogging though Cadwell's silver and gold to advance, which nowadays you can completely ignore. It took time to get there.

It was also the first time that any trials were introduced to the game, so those of us that really wanted difficult grouping were, you know... doing difficult grouping! vHRC hm albeit easiest today compared to later trials, still gives new players to trials a bang for their buck - back then? it was tough with no CPs, crazy proc sets, etc., let alone facing the World Shaper himself in vSOhm with all the bugs in it -- some of which are STILL there (*arrrg!).

There is a reason why you still see people still gathering in Craglorn today to collect others for trials - we started that habit since that was the best place to get access to anyone who could do them, outside of your own guild roster. Heck, even WITH a guild roster, I ran into plenty of other guildmates there in the process. Zone chat definitely had it's share of people complaining they needed someone to help with this or that group quest on the overland, in which case you did find others to help usually. But most of the time the discussion was more focused around the trials or trading.

What ZoS interpreted as a failure was in my view, and in that of many I know, a success for the game - if they had not introduced it a large portion of players that had been here already would have left since there were no challenges left.

The players who were leaving left for reasons other than Craglorn, not the least of which was the fact that many players didn't like having to complete overland in three factions before being able to set foot in hard content. Craglorn also released in halves, with upper Crag hitting most people who were still not at even at v10 yet needed to hit v12 na cap v14 for the latest stuff, not to mention they slapped the gear trashing on us by doing that. A LOT of people were angry they didn't just release the zone as a whole so we could have progressed in one go rather than being forced to trash our gold gear out three different times.

Considering they made the zone at a time when the entire game moving forward seemed hung in the balance and the cancellation of the sub requirement to expand was made shortly afterwards, they viewed it as a lesson in what not to do again, but failed to understand that it was a plethora of issues that made it hard for players NOT JUST that is was a group zone.

DreamyLu · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

Sorry, I caught wrong answer. For me it's "No but I'm not against it".

I'm a casual PvE player, who likes to chill solo. Craglorn is just annoying to me. I go there when I have a treasure map, if - and only - the location is safe enough. Otherwise, I don't put one foot there. So, I wouldn't purchase another one same type.

I tend to agree with @ADarklore. I believe that a vast majority of ESO players are casual PvE like me and wouldn't purchase another area like Craglorn.

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

I duo'd the ORIGINAL Craglorn with my husband (back when 25k was god-tier DPS). While Shada's Tear is fun and all, it's basically a dungeon without the rewards. We were annoyed every time we HAD to look for 2 more people because mechanics wouldn't let us open doors with 2 people.

Big NO from me. If ESO turns into another "traditional" MMO where most players HAVE to sit in zone LFG, then NO. You want that challenge, plenty of other games. Go put Skyrim on Legendary for the 1000th time.

kojou · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

When Craglorn was first released Shada's tear was the equivalent of a 3 part vet dungeon, it is a walk in the park now.

The biggest problem with Craglorn is they never got the rewards right. Nerfs to XP gain, lackluster armor sets, and in general nothing worth farming is what killed Craglorn overland.

Tandor · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

Those who want group content (or a real solo challenge) already have two of the three DLCs each year devoted just to group dungeons, probably with some group content in the remaining DLC, and the annual Chapter also provides a variety of new dungeon and trial content. There are normal and veteran modes for these sorts of content. As I don't do group content I may be wrong in some of that but it represents my understanding of the situation and I'm perfectly happy for that content to be provided (although I think the addition of a couple of delves to the dungeon DLCs would broaden their appeal enormously), but I don't see the need to go beyond those regular group content additions to the game.

zelaminator · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

No, because it would exclude players who can't handle group content solo

Blinx · August 2021

Not interested, but I'm not against it.

I def would not buy it, but more options are good.

danno8 · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

kojou wrote: »

When Craglorn was first released Shada's tear was the equivalent of a 3 part vet dungeon, it is a walk in the park now.

The biggest problem with Craglorn is they never got the rewards right. Nerfs to XP gain, lackluster armor sets, and in general nothing worth farming is what killed Craglorn overland.

Also, quests were in multi part chains and you were unable to join a group in mid-chain and your quest stages were out of sync. It was very "pick-up" unfriendly.

That's all changed now and Craglorn is a great area, with slightly higher overland challenge, quests that can be easily completed together or with others, and delves that while certainly more difficult than the steamroller derby that most overland zones are, are still very doable solo. Even the group dungeons are soloable, about on par with normal base game dungeons.

Also, gorgeous area. Wrothgar and Craglorn are two of my favorites for looks.

Gythral · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

No point in rehashing EPIC fail, as it is clear it was an EPIC fail & would be so again!

Some much of an epic fail the whole game changed!

tonyblack · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

Same could be said about Blackwood. Zone is deserted and I barely see players doing overland quests. And that’s 2 months after release. Western skyrim at launch get mixed feedback as well and now a ghost town. Old craglorn failed for many different reasons not related to its difficulty but recent chapters in particular failed for boring gameplay features, lack of innovation and repetitive quests formula.

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

tonyblack wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

Same could be said about Blackwood. Zone is deserted and I barely see players doing overland quests. And that’s 2 months after release. Western skyrim at launch get mixed feedback as well and now a ghost town. Old craglorn failed for many different reasons not related to its difficulty but recent chapters in particular failed for boring gameplay features, lack of innovation and repetitive quests formula.

Uh, no one is in Blackwood THIS INSTANT because there's an event on...

Tandor · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

tonyblack wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

Same could be said about Blackwood. Zone is deserted and I barely see players doing overland quests. And that’s 2 months after release. Western skyrim at launch get mixed feedback as well and now a ghost town. Old craglorn failed for many different reasons not related to its difficulty but recent chapters in particular failed for boring gameplay features, lack of innovation and repetitive quests formula.

Normally I see quite a few people doing the newer content still, like Greymoor and Blackwood. However, there's currently an event within Wrothgar, Craglorn, and Imperial City - so it's not surprising that the newer zones are less busy (although I'm currently seeing some players in Blackwood).

vesselwiththepestle · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players.

There was a lot of "power creep" since that decision and ZOS additionally really did a lot to "level the field" or "raise the floor", for example with some very helpful mythic items, companions, etc. This old argument "Craglorn didn't work ages ago, so it won't work now" is not valid. Times change, circumstances change.

Red_Feather · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

Having a group area in each zone isn't the end of the world. Why are people overreacting to the suggestion. It's one group area in a zone. I don't get the big deal. Each zone has it's own theme and it would be nice if a group of players or someone really good at duoing or soloing get to experience a challenge in that themed environment instead of having to go off into a trial instance somewhere over and over again.

ADarklore · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

Fhritz wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

Yes, Craglorn WAS a dead zone. But ZoS managed to change this, and made a batter version of this zone. Sure, it cost $$$ to make these sorts of area, but I'm sure that if some area like this came out in various region, dlc or not, it'll make some interest toward these regions (Like the antiquities system, something that both casual and veteran can enjoy). Overland is meant to be solo, and I think a lot of players actually want some challenge outside of arena (other than MA and VH), trials and dungeon . Not only on the forums, but in Reddit too. I even asked both in Discord AND IRl friend and most of the time they told me that eso overland was too easy and borderline boring.

When Vateshran was first announced, everyone was hyped and eventually almost everyone loved it. Since these areas are "Arena-like" in a smaller scale, I doubt that no one will be interested. I understand your point tho, you aren't entirely wrong ^^

EVERY poll I've seen here on the forums, "do you want harder overland" and the answer is always a resounding NO. "Do you want more group content" and the overwhelming response is always NO. The people who want harder content are a minority here in ESO, accept it or not, those are the FACTS. Do you not think that ZOS has access to all the numbers, do you not think they KNOW what a player is running what content and how often? Which ones of those are buying things in the Crown store, which ones are subscribers? They have ALL that information and make decisions based off of it. Considering they added the "Ring of the Pale Order" and then added Companions with few (if any) asking for it, that should speak volumes for who they see as the majority of player base.

Today or yesterday, it doesn't matter, because Craglorn as it was originally was a complete disaster. It had everything to do with it being a 'Group' zone... I know I refused to go there as did MANY MANY people. It was pretty much a dead zone because group players went there ONCE to finish it and solo-centric players never stepped foot in it. There was even another zone designed as a group zone, but ZOS scrapped it completely and re-designed Craglorn to make it appealing to ALL players. They kept some GROUP aspects of Craglorn, but overall, they tried to make it another regular overland zone that would be accessible to ANY player.

Honestly, I think Craglorn is a blast... I enjoyed my time spent there questing. However, I have yet to complete any of the Group dungeons and only stepped foot in the Group delves to collect skyshards and then left without finishing. I didn't find it any more difficult than a regular zone Group dungeon, but I just didn't feel like finishing it... which is how I feel about most Group dungeons. They're just not worth my time when I have so many quests to complete, WB's to defeat, etc... slogging my way through a Group dungeon is just, IMO, not fun. I can do it, but what's the point? Unless there is a gear set or something else for me, there's no point in the time investment. I'm not a completionist, I don't have to do everything in the game to enjoy it... and that's how I felt about the original Craglorn up until they changed it.

TheImperfect · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

Yes as long as they are optional areas and not everywhere. I like the odd challenging area but prefer the majority to be relaxing.

One thing I did not like about Shada's Tear was that I cleared the whole place and got to Shada, but it got late and I was tired so went to bed expecting to just log in and kill Shada the next day. When I logged in the next day the whole place reset and I had to spend ages killing everything on the run up to Shada again, that was quite annoying because I wasn't expecting that.

spartaxoxo · August 2021

I'd rather see more solo arenas.

SilverBride · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

Vhozek wrote: »

The game had a couple thousand players at launch and they based their decisions for One Tamriel around those few people. The game then gained a ton more players after relaunching.

That speaks volumes. (And there were way more than a couple thousand players at launch.)

Players didn't like veteran overland, and liked Craglorn even less. It's no different today.

Vhozek · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

SilverBride wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

The game had a couple thousand players at launch and they based their decisions for One Tamriel around those few people. The game then gained a ton more players after relaunching.

That speaks volumes. (And there were way more than a couple thousand players at launch.)

Players didn't like veteran overland, and liked Craglorn even less. It's no different today.

Did you not read? There is nothing that says making the game easier made it more popular. Relaunching made it more popular. That is very common.

SilverBride · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

Fhritz wrote: »

I think each zone (or at least some zone) should at least have one of these "group" area or something similar for solo player who want some challenge ! It should be great for both casual and veteran - Casual can still do this area in a group, or even in solo since they aren't that hard and veteran can find some challenges other than arenas to do in solo !

Forced grouping doesn't go over well. That is what caused a lot of players to quit before One Tamriel. I am not able to solo Shada's Tear so I am forced to group if I want to do the content. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

These areas are fine for Craglorn for what it is, but have no place in the rest of overland.

tonyblack · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

Tandor wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

Same could be said about Blackwood. Zone is deserted and I barely see players doing overland quests. And that’s 2 months after release. Western skyrim at launch get mixed feedback as well and now a ghost town. Old craglorn failed for many different reasons not related to its difficulty but recent chapters in particular failed for boring gameplay features, lack of innovation and repetitive quests formula.

Normally I see quite a few people doing the newer content still, like Greymoor and Blackwood. However, there's currently an event within Wrothgar, Craglorn, and Imperial City - so it's not surprising that the newer zones are less busy (although I'm currently seeing some players in Blackwood).

It doesn’t really matter event or not, most chapter dlcs tend to be deserted 2-3 months after launch because they offer little replayability beside dailies. But recent dlcs failed much harder in that department for reasons I mentioned.

Red_Feather · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

tonyblack wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

Same could be said about Blackwood. Zone is deserted and I barely see players doing overland quests. And that’s 2 months after release. Western skyrim at launch get mixed feedback as well and now a ghost town. Old craglorn failed for many different reasons not related to its difficulty but recent chapters in particular failed for boring gameplay features, lack of innovation and repetitive quests formula.

Normally I see quite a few people doing the newer content still, like Greymoor and Blackwood. However, there's currently an event within Wrothgar, Craglorn, and Imperial City - so it's not surprising that the newer zones are less busy (although I'm currently seeing some players in Blackwood).

It doesn’t really matter event or not, most chapter dlcs tend to be deserted 2-3 months after launch because they offer little replayability beside dailies. But recent dlcs failed much harder in that department for reasons I mentioned.

Oh yeah blackwood felt dead quickly after launch. I even talked to people in zone chat about how empty it felt. I wonder if that is why it went on 35% off so fast.

katanagirl1 · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

Shada’s Tear - took me YEARS to get a group to run this with me just to get the achievement on my main.

Craglorn is one of my favorite zones in the area but the rewards are pathetic. No wonder no one does them.

SilverBride · August 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Shada’s Tear - took me YEARS to get a group to run this with me just to get the achievement on my main.

I imagine it would be the same with any new areas like this, especially if they are being placed in regular zones. There won't be very many players willing to group for them.

Red_Feather · August 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Craglorn is one of my favorite zones in the area but the rewards are pathetic. No wonder no one does them.

It is true. There is a part where you collect stuff to perform a ritual that summons a boss, but the boss' loot table is poop. I can't believe it. It is such a cool idea leading up to a boss fight and yet it ends with a flat trombone sound.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Make more overland content like Shada's Tear (in other zone than Craglorn) !

Make more overland content like Shada's Tear (in other zone than Craglorn) ! 195 votes