Healers with spell power pots

Grandchamp1989 · August 2021

One thing that I wonder is for vet and vet HM trials we always try to uptimize groups down to every single little details.

What are supports wearing
what ulti's we using
is a DD gonna help be a buff bot

we try to sqeeze every single advantage to the group for an easy clear. Usually DDs will use expensive pots to secure the deeps, and yet most healers I asked usually run with regular free crown potions or even the trash magicka potions.

Major sorcery and major prophecy will benefit the healer quite a bit that 20% extra spell dmg and 10-15% extra crit directly translate into stronger heals and critical heals for everyone.
On top of that it will increase the dmg the healer help apply, between heals, and especially if the healer is wearing Z'en where a full bar is taken up by DOTs.

So my question in simple... Why do we micromanage every single advantage in trials but allow healers to get away with trash pots?

Asking for a friend...

Vevvev · August 2021

Healers are more focused on Magicka regeneration to focus on buff and heal uptimes. Healing, especially burst healing, doesn't need the offensive power to be all that high in most content anyways. Also spell power pots might help, but thanks to the proc set scaling spell damage is worthless on a healer as healing proc sets scale off max Magicka/Stamina. All you'd be doing is boosting you healing by a small fraction which is why they use the trash pots for the boosts to Magicka recovery.

Grandchamp1989 · August 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Healers are more focused on Magicka regeneration to focus on buff and heal uptimes. Healing, especially burst healing, doesn't need the offensive power to be all that high in most content anyways. Also spell power pots might help, but thanks to the proc set scaling spell damage is worthless on a healer as healing proc sets scale off max Magicka/Stamina. All you'd be doing is boosting you healing by a small fraction which is why they use the trash pots for the boosts to Magicka recovery.

But shouldn't we use any advantage we can when in trials?

When I DD in a trial I don't slack on my dmg by using regular potions because it's just a few extra K I can band aid it from using some inferior skills to get the same buffs but with reduced dmg..

If I said to a raid lead I got two setups for trial 1. I do 85k but use pots and 2. I do 77k without. They would expect me to bring my best setup. And yes it is expensive, sometimes in rough trials where we wipe a lot it actually end up costing me gold to do the trial..

But for heals we say it's just a little extra healing and dmg so its okey...

kargen27 · August 2021

Most healers tend to be able to over heal. Keeping up buffs and debuffs becomes their main focus. Keeping up buffs and having enough resources for panic heal situations is the priority. If the healer can apply a buff so the DD doesn't have to worry about it that increase the damage the DD is doing.
If the healer can also do some damage that is gravy. In a trial though if the healer lets a buff drop because they get caught up in putting down some damage the DPS loss from the DDs is more than offset by any damage the healer is doing.

With dungeons sometimes a little more dedication to doing damage by the healer helps more than it would in a trial group.

OutLaw_Nynx · August 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Healers are more focused on Magicka regeneration to focus on buff and heal uptimes. Healing, especially burst healing, doesn't need the offensive power to be all that high in most content anyways. Also spell power pots might help, but thanks to the proc set scaling spell damage is worthless on a healer as healing proc sets scale off max Magicka/Stamina. All you'd be doing is boosting you healing by a small fraction which is why they use the trash pots for the boosts to Magicka recovery.

But shouldn't we use any advantage we can when in trials?

When I DD in a trial I don't slack on my dmg by using regular potions because it's just a few extra K I can band aid it from using some inferior skills to get the same buffs but with reduced dmg..

If I said to a raid lead I got two setups for trial 1. I do 85k but use pots and 2. I do 77k without. They would expect me to bring my best setup. And yes it is expensive, sometimes in rough trials where we wipe a lot it actually end up costing me gold to do the trial..

But for heals we say it's just a little extra healing and dmg so its okey...

You are missing the point that healers aren’t running off of spell damage.

kargen27 · August 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Healers are more focused on Magicka regeneration to focus on buff and heal uptimes. Healing, especially burst healing, doesn't need the offensive power to be all that high in most content anyways. Also spell power pots might help, but thanks to the proc set scaling spell damage is worthless on a healer as healing proc sets scale off max Magicka/Stamina. All you'd be doing is boosting you healing by a small fraction which is why they use the trash pots for the boosts to Magicka recovery.

But shouldn't we use any advantage we can when in trials?

When I DD in a trial I don't slack on my dmg by using regular potions because it's just a few extra K I can band aid it from using some inferior skills to get the same buffs but with reduced dmg..

If I said to a raid lead I got two setups for trial 1. I do 85k but use pots and 2. I do 77k without. They would expect me to bring my best setup. And yes it is expensive, sometimes in rough trials where we wipe a lot it actually end up costing me gold to do the trial..

But for heals we say it's just a little extra healing and dmg so its okey...

The most basic thing is DD kills things. Healers keep DD alive while they kill things. There really is no such thing as a little extra healing. Either they keep you alive and focusing on doing damage or they do not.

Kind of playing on your example if a healer says hey I have two sets-ups. One I can do more damage but might run low on resources when needing to power heal meaning someone could die and one I will keep everyone fully buffed and alive. Which one are they going to want?

radiostar · August 2021

It clicks when you stop trying to get healers to do DD and concentrate on healing. I mean, IMHO

ssewallb14_ESO · August 2021

High end raids do. Heroism pots are a better choice most of the time, for anything besides your bank account.

Grandchamp1989 · August 2021

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

High end raids do. Heroism pots are a better choice most of the time, for anything besides your bank account.

Yes, heroism pots forgot that! More ulti - more warhorn/collusus more damage.

zaria · August 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Healers are more focused on Magicka regeneration to focus on buff and heal uptimes. Healing, especially burst healing, doesn't need the offensive power to be all that high in most content anyways. Also spell power pots might help, but thanks to the proc set scaling spell damage is worthless on a healer as healing proc sets scale off max Magicka/Stamina. All you'd be doing is boosting you healing by a small fraction which is why they use the trash pots for the boosts to Magicka recovery.

But shouldn't we use any advantage we can when in trials?

When I DD in a trial I don't slack on my dmg by using regular potions because it's just a few extra K I can band aid it from using some inferior skills to get the same buffs but with reduced dmg..

If I said to a raid lead I got two setups for trial 1. I do 85k but use pots and 2. I do 77k without. They would expect me to bring my best setup. And yes it is expensive, sometimes in rough trials where we wipe a lot it actually end up costing me gold to do the trial..

But for heals we say it's just a little extra healing and dmg so its okey...

The most basic thing is DD kills things. Healers keep DD alive while they kill things. There really is no such thing as a little extra healing. Either they keep you alive and focusing on doing damage or they do not.

Kind of playing on your example if a healer says hey I have two sets-ups. One I can do more damage but might run low on resources when needing to power heal meaning someone could die and one I will keep everyone fully buffed and alive. Which one are they going to want?

Then you start up with one setup and switches depending on group and dungeon.
You might switch depending on bosses to, always wait a bit for healer to change setup before last boss.
In trials healers job is buffing an healing.

kargen27 · August 2021

zaria wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Healers are more focused on Magicka regeneration to focus on buff and heal uptimes. Healing, especially burst healing, doesn't need the offensive power to be all that high in most content anyways. Also spell power pots might help, but thanks to the proc set scaling spell damage is worthless on a healer as healing proc sets scale off max Magicka/Stamina. All you'd be doing is boosting you healing by a small fraction which is why they use the trash pots for the boosts to Magicka recovery.

But shouldn't we use any advantage we can when in trials?

When I DD in a trial I don't slack on my dmg by using regular potions because it's just a few extra K I can band aid it from using some inferior skills to get the same buffs but with reduced dmg..

If I said to a raid lead I got two setups for trial 1. I do 85k but use pots and 2. I do 77k without. They would expect me to bring my best setup. And yes it is expensive, sometimes in rough trials where we wipe a lot it actually end up costing me gold to do the trial..

But for heals we say it's just a little extra healing and dmg so its okey...

The most basic thing is DD kills things. Healers keep DD alive while they kill things. There really is no such thing as a little extra healing. Either they keep you alive and focusing on doing damage or they do not.

Kind of playing on your example if a healer says hey I have two sets-ups. One I can do more damage but might run low on resources when needing to power heal meaning someone could die and one I will keep everyone fully buffed and alive. Which one are they going to want?

Then you start up with one setup and switches depending on group and dungeon.
You might switch depending on bosses to, always wait a bit for healer to change setup before last boss.
In trials healers job is buffing an healing.

Really no different than doing damage. DDs can also switch gear/skill on different bosses in trials if not on a speed run. Some also change CP allocation. I think the point some of us are trying to make is healing and damage do not require the same foods/potions to be at their most effective levels.

Grandchamp1989 · August 2021

radiostar wrote: »

It clicks when you stop trying to get healers to do DD and concentrate on healing. I mean, IMHO

Healers are more of a "support" role in ESO than healer...

They're expected to fill the gap in the team.

If that means healing and purging it is it.
If it's buffs and debuffs, then that's that.
If it means help with the *pew *pew that's what they must do.

It is a very flexable class and at its core very demanding if played right, which is why I don't get why such a core role gets away with using trash pots.

Mumbles_the_Tank · August 2021

I have never known a raid healer to use anything other than the same spell power pots a magicka DD does. Heroism in niche situations being an exception, there was a time when Wardens would run Essence of Spell Crit thanks to their passives.

Whoever you’re talking to is either just cheap or not a serious healer or both. Most responses in this thread are either full of outright misinfo or show a misunderstanding of how being a healer in raid really works.

ceiron · August 2021

It really depends on my healing setup tbh. I use spell power pots. Tri pots. Occasionally spell crit pots.

If going ro jorv I favour spell power

Any other setup depends what food I'm using and what I need more of. Or Tri pots if need stamina for block or roll. Crit pots for the mag and health boost etc.

Not saying I am right but it has worked this far.

Same with foods. Skulls, corrupted mara. Frothgar occasionally.

I think healers are under rated in how versatile they have to be to stay relevant.

I change almost my entire setup per situation.

Grandchamp1989 · August 2021

Mumbles_the_Tank wrote: »

I have never known a raid healer to use anything other than the same spell power pots a magicka DD does. Heroism in niche situations being an exception, there was a time when Wardens would run Essence of Spell Crit thanks to their passives.

Whoever you’re talking to is either just cheap or not a serious healer or both. Most responses in this thread are either full of outright misinfo or show a misunderstanding of how being a healer in raid really works.

As you can see from the replies in the thread people don't mind not having extra heal/damage/ulti and just use trash pots.

Aznarb · August 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

One thing that I wonder is for vet and vet HM trials we always try to uptimize groups down to every single little details.

What are supports wearing
what ulti's we using
is a DD gonna help be a buff bot

we try to sqeeze every single advantage to the group for an easy clear. Usually DDs will use expensive pots to secure the deeps, and yet most healers I asked usually run with regular free crown potions or even the trash magicka potions.

Major sorcery and major prophecy will benefit the healer quite a bit that 20% extra spell dmg and 10-15% extra crit directly translate into stronger heals and critical heals for everyone.
On top of that it will increase the dmg the healer help apply, between heals, and especially if the healer is wearing Z'en where a full bar is taken up by DOTs.

So my question in simple... Why do we micromanage every single advantage in trials but allow healers to get away with trash pots?

Asking for a friend...

Healer that do hard content (trifeca/hm) on a try-hard basis will always use spell power pot.
M.atk/Crit is not just a little heal boost (not really needed) but buff your DMG, and on these run a main healer is expected to do 10-15k will the off-healer will do way more.
But if you don't go for thing like GH, GS, TTT, etc.. you don't really care and for progress group tri-pot is the best option to stay alive easier the time you know mec' very well.

Soulshine · August 2021

Mumbles_the_Tank wrote: »

I have never known a raid healer to use anything other than the same spell power pots a magicka DD does. Heroism in niche situations being an exception, there was a time when Wardens would run Essence of Spell Crit thanks to their passives.

Whoever you’re talking to is either just cheap or not a serious healer or both. Most responses in this thread are either full of outright misinfo or show a misunderstanding of how being a healer in raid really works.

A healer's most important job, especially in a difficult trial, is to stay alive - so he can do everything else he is supposed to do.

A dead healer with spell pots is not doing anything. A dead healer puts other players out of their job since someone usually ends up trying to rez, and this risks a wipe of the entire trial.

As far as being a "serious" healer as you put it, that doesn't happen just because of carrying spell power pots. And heroism pots are far, far more than niche. The issue here is that several different types of pots are (and should be) in our bags and interchanged as the situation calls for --- which means that spell power pots are NOT always going to be needed in every situation. Prog groups are different from score groups, etc.

Snaggel · August 2021

All that extra spell power and crit would only help substantially if your teammates had several hundreds of thousands worth of hitpoints to heal through. Since they don't, a lot of the healing will be overhealing - but you still have to apply overheal as most of the time, that's what's saves a teammate from brink of death, not a carefully timed burst heal

Ratzkifal · August 2021

Healers aren't subject to potion optimization simply because they can get away with it. But if you can't heal tombs in vSS, then you can bet your behind people will demand you use spell power pots as a healer.

kargen27 · August 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Mumbles_the_Tank wrote: »

I have never known a raid healer to use anything other than the same spell power pots a magicka DD does. Heroism in niche situations being an exception, there was a time when Wardens would run Essence of Spell Crit thanks to their passives.

Whoever you’re talking to is either just cheap or not a serious healer or both. Most responses in this thread are either full of outright misinfo or show a misunderstanding of how being a healer in raid really works.

As you can see from the replies in the thread people don't mind not having extra heal/damage/ulti and just use trash pots.

There really isn't extra healing. Once you get a player to 100% you are done healing until health drops again. Having your heal do ten percent more isn't going to bump your target to 102% of their health. If your DPS is good and you are not on a speed run you are good without the super potions.

basically if you are not looking to get on leader boards the difference in potions really doesn't justify the added cost of using the good stuff for a healer.

cicisch · August 2021

I have run all content as a healer - I am missing 1 dungeon HM clear and 1 trial HM clear, and have gotten 4 trial trifectas multiple times in my role - and I can tell you that 95% of the time in veteran content, I use spell power pots and expect all the healers I coach and train in my guild to use them as well, unless I have asked them to run something else.

The only time I have run heroism pots is Lokke HM speed strats and that's to help keep up horns while maintaining barriers for beam phase.

I see the point about swapping to different pots - but in those situations you still make sure that you have major prophecy and major sorcery because they are vital to the strength of your hots and burst heals. Every time I've been asked to run heroism pots, I've had to get those on my setup - usually via inner light and a major sorcery skill (degen, netch, etc).

Running spell power pots has long been an expectation of healers as well - I've been healing since 2017 and when I was taught how to do the job, that was one of the first things I was told.

Grandchamp1989 · August 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Mumbles_the_Tank wrote: »

I have never known a raid healer to use anything other than the same spell power pots a magicka DD does. Heroism in niche situations being an exception, there was a time when Wardens would run Essence of Spell Crit thanks to their passives.

Whoever you’re talking to is either just cheap or not a serious healer or both. Most responses in this thread are either full of outright misinfo or show a misunderstanding of how being a healer in raid really works.

As you can see from the replies in the thread people don't mind not having extra heal/damage/ulti and just use trash pots.

There really isn't extra healing. Once you get a player to 100% you are done healing until health drops again. Having your heal do ten percent more isn't going to bump your target to 102% of their health. If your DPS is good and you are not on a speed run you are good without the super potions.

basically if you are not looking to get on leader boards the difference in potions really doesn't justify the added cost of using the good stuff for a healer.

The trifecta healer below you seems to disagree..

Dagoth_Rac · August 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

All you'd be doing is boosting you healing by a small fraction which is why they use the trash pots for the boosts to Magicka recovery.

Don't spell power pots give the same boost to magicka recovery as trash pots, but last longer? So you essentially get more regen out of spell power pots than trash pots? I could understand if the choice was between sustain or damage, but seems like choice is between sustain or more-sustain-plus-more-damage-plus-more-healing. The latter seems unequivocally better. Maybe unnecessary and not worth the cost, but better.

tmbrinks · August 2021

I've not really used anything other than spell power pots.

Sometimes Heroism pots for vSS speed strats.

Sometimes Tri-pots for stamina intensive mechanics.

Even if the difference is only marginal in some cases... why wouldn't you want to use the best?

Especially since many times healers are now "half" dps as well, overhealing is wasted GCDs and time, so do damage when healing isn't needed and buffs are already up.

Saieden · August 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

I've not really used anything other than spell power pots.

Sometimes Heroism pots for vSS speed strats.

Sometimes Tri-pots for stamina intensive mechanics.

Even if the difference is only marginal in some cases... why wouldn't you want to use the best?

Especially since many times healers are now "half" dps as well, overhealing is wasted GCDs and time, so do damage when healing isn't needed and buffs are already up.

Furthermore, the extra healing from the spell damage means you need fewer bursts to top off, maybe even get away with one less HoT, so it saves resources in that sense too. Also spells like steadfast ward and resistant flesh give additional mitigation that scales off of spell damage in addition to extra healing, which can be the difference between comfortably healing through a mistake and the group going into crisis management.

ceiron · August 2021

I would like a spell power crit stamina pot though. Assuming it's not craftable currently and I'm missing it.lol