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Negate Change?

Zahktar
Zahktar
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I've tried to find a patch note or other discussion on this, and can't find one, so I'm not sure if this is a bug or an intentional change?

You can no longer negate a negate. So if an enemy throws a negate, and you throw a negate in that same spot, you just end up with a bubble in which no one can use magicka abilities. Whereas, in the past, if an enemy threw a negate and then you countered it with your own negate, your negate would "overwrite" their negate.

Has anyone else seen anything talking about why this is a thing?
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    Have you been able to reproduce this consistently? This would be an important development.

    I can only imagine that it is something new introduced by ZOS refactoring the code for some of the larger AoE DoT abilities. There was a patch note talking about changes to the way that Negate calculated its area so this is likely related to that.
  • Zahktar
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    Yes, this is happening consistently. I typically am on a negate tank build in groups in Cyrodiil so I've had the displeasure of forgetting and remembering this many times before I realized that it was a constant thing. It's every time two opposing negates are dropped in the same space.

    That would be an interesting byproduct. I wonder if it's an intentional on or not.
  • vesselwiththepestle
    vesselwiththepestle
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    Are negates still being removed by Earthgore, then?

    Did you notice a difference between player sourced and npc sourced negates?
    Edited by vesselwiththepestle on July 20, 2021 11:15AM
    1000+ CP
    PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant

    Give me my wings back!
  • CrustyCroco
    CrustyCroco
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    Ever since U30 they did several changes to negate mechanics which they didn't even mention in the patchnotes after U30 (only until recently mentioning some vague things on PTS patchnotes iirc).
    At first negates couldn't remove each other or other ground effects at all (U30), so they just existed both on top of each other, both applied silence properly tho (unless the caster themselves was silenced, which is a whole other topic why that is and how that works).
    A while ago they changed negates back to removing ground effects, but they still could co-exist.
    And the newest change, not sure when it got implemented, is that negates in most cases, can't counter negate anymore.
    Testing and understanding negate's mechanics explains why that is.

    NPC negates still work the old way (so can't be counternegated as well), if i made correct tests, but didn't spend a lot of time on it and it's a while ago, so might have changed already.
    Negates were still removed by EG when we tested.

    These are really unfortunate behaviours, cause in groupplay you rely on them working properly. And in this high damage meta, if this doesn't work reliaby, you will just get run over, if you try to play around it.
    This removes tactical gameplay around countering and makes "all in playstyles" a lot stronger.
  • divnyi
    divnyi
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    How do you even tell enemy and friendly ones apart?
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    U30 also really messed up the area calculation for Negates, where you would get silenced despite standing like five meters outside of the actual area. I was initially pleased to see that they were 'fixing' this behavior but it seems as though the fix came with strings attached.
    divnyi wrote: »
    How do you even tell enemy and friendly ones apart?

    You can use really gaudy colors for hostile and beneficial effects - I use sky blue for beneficial and hot pink for hostile.

    There's also a mod called like Disco Color AoEs that will make harmful AoEs sparkle like an unmistakable disco ball.
  • divnyi
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    divnyi wrote: »
    How do you even tell enemy and friendly ones apart?

    You can use really gaudy colors for hostile and beneficial effects - I use sky blue for beneficial and hot pink for hostile.

    Does that work with negate too? I guess I use small intensity then, because all I see is that blue negate dome all the time. Really wish it would be possible to apply colour tint to ground AoE animations, not just the floor.
  • vesselwiththepestle
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    The custom colors don't work for me on negates. I realize the enemy negate only through the word "Silenced" on screen (if it appears, often it does not) and by not being able to cast magicka skills and ultimate. I think the aoe colors don't work, because the negate is a globe, not a circle/cylinder.
    1000+ CP
    PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant

    Give me my wings back!
  • JayKwellen
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    Well this is concerning.

    @Zahktar do you know if earthgore is still able to remove negates?
    Xbox NA - JaeKwellen
    AD PvP
    Trying to main a magcro. This is awful.
  • Zahktar
    Zahktar
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    @JayKwellen Yes it is, as far as I've seen. My negates have still been getting eaten by earthgore.
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    Is there any update on this behavior?
  • fullheartcontainer
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    this is still a massive issue. When is negate going to be fixed? It's absolutely ridiculous that you cant counter negates right now, and half the time if you cast a negate an enemy is casting it also and it's impossible to tell whether you are walking into a good negate or not since they look exactly the same. The very least you could do is do a visual update so you can tell it's bad if you arent going to actually fix the mechanics of it
  • Zahktar
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    It's still absolutely a huge problem. Can we get someone - anyone - from ZOS to comment on this please?

    If negate is no longer going to counter other negates, that vastly changes pvp gameplay and is something players need to know.

    All I'm asking is for open communication from ZOS about whether or not this is an intended change or a bug.
  • vesselwiththepestle
    vesselwiththepestle
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    Zahktar wrote: »
    All I'm asking is for open communication from ZOS about whether or not this is an intended change or a bug.
    Usually it seems to be more effective to post on the Bug Reports section with stuff like this, sometimes you get answers there about the team being aware of the issue. Often pvp issues get posted in the pvp sections, not in the Bug reports. I don't know if anyway wrote bug reports in game about this. If noone tells them, they might not even know :).

    1000+ CP
    PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant

    Give me my wings back!
  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
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    Zahktar wrote: »
    All I'm asking is for open communication from ZOS about whether or not this is an intended change or a bug.
    Usually it seems to be more effective to post on the Bug Reports section with stuff like this, sometimes you get answers there about the team being aware of the issue. Often pvp issues get posted in the pvp sections, not in the Bug reports. I don't know if anyway wrote bug reports in game about this. If noone tells them, they might not even know :).

    Don't know about PC but on console you get 160-character limit to report a bug. Often, it's just not enough room to completely report and issue. You get a ticket number but not always an automated response. Easy to see why some people don't fill out bug reports when it doesn't seem like they really want to know about them to begin with. Not had an issue with a bug report myself just constructive feedback.

    And yes, Negate needs to be fixed.

    Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging

  • Daffen
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    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    Zahktar wrote: »
    All I'm asking is for open communication from ZOS about whether or not this is an intended change or a bug.
    Usually it seems to be more effective to post on the Bug Reports section with stuff like this, sometimes you get answers there about the team being aware of the issue. Often pvp issues get posted in the pvp sections, not in the Bug reports. I don't know if anyway wrote bug reports in game about this. If noone tells them, they might not even know :).

    Don't know about PC but on console you get 160-character limit to report a bug. Often, it's just not enough room to completely report and issue. You get a ticket number but not always an automated response. Easy to see why some people don't fill out bug reports when it doesn't seem like they really want to know about them to begin with. Not had an issue with a bug report myself just constructive feedback.

    And yes, Negate needs to be fixed.

    Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging

    I think he was talking about the bug report section in the forums
  • neferpitou73
    neferpitou73
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    Tested this and can confirm negate is broken on PTS right now. First negate wins. @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get a look at this before patch goes live?
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