Is 1vsX possible thanks to desyncs?

GRXRG · August 2021

Lately I am building a theory.
We all know the game is full desyncs, the most common is the healthbar desync.

Im starting to think there is even damage desync, gear desyncs, stamina and magicka desyncs too.

I was with 3 other people in imperial city, all above 1000cp guys with lot of years in pvp experience.
We all running "meta" builds, mine could reach 7k wd and over 20k pen.
And yet we found a guy in imperial city no-cp we couldn't take down 4vs1.

He wasn't a tank, he wasn't running a magical 1vX build. He was just in Bloodspawn and trickery, vate2h and potentates sword and board because we asked him. He was absorbing literally 4 coordinated ults casted him just popping vigor, cauterize and sometime rally when needed.

There is no player or no build in this game, even if you have 6k healing vigor ticks(which is impossible) per seconds and 10k cauterize that could survive a 4vs1 focus of meta builds.

We asked him how, he just said he plays with average 20-30 ping and it felt like we were doing no damage to him, just vigor was enough to survive and of course a bit of line of sight.

When i try line of sight myself even on full pariah with very strong builds I receive hits even after 2-3 seconds when the enemy should have zero line of sight, and even if i block 2 ults I die in the next few seconds because my stamina is like vanished even if i build for 3k regens or 900, it's the same.

So I am way more convinced that when you do a 1vX it's because the server is not registering all the incoming damage into your hitbox.

So please avoid comments like l2p, it's a l2p issue, they have strong 1vX builds made for it, because it's not. I am playing this game for 4 or more years always pvp, just done pve for monster sets and for pvp sets, nothing else. The rest, bgs, cyro, imperial city so I am confident to say I know my own.

I also play in pc-eu of that's makes a difference for someone who can relate.

Pelican · August 2021

1vX will always be possible simply because bad players will always exist. Experience does not equate to skill because most players play in groups and never learn to fight outnumbered at a disadvantage, instead spending their time zerging down other players who are equally as strong as them, so they don’t know how to handle a stronger player when they meet one because those are arguably very rare now. I’ve seen players who have pvp’d since beta and are still worse than a talented player who has only pvp’d for a month.

Daffen · August 2021

GRXRG wrote: »

Lately I am building a theory.
We all know the game is full desyncs, the most common is the healthbar desync.

Im starting to think there is even damage desync, gear desyncs, stamina and magicka desyncs too.

I was with 3 other people in imperial city, all above 1000cp guys with lot of years in pvp experience.
We all running "meta" builds, mine could reach 7k wd and over 20k pen.
And yet we found a guy in imperial city no-cp we couldn't take down 4vs1.

He wasn't a tank, he wasn't running a magical 1vX build. He was just in Bloodspawn and trickery, vate2h and potentates sword and board because we asked him. He was absorbing literally 4 coordinated ults casted him just popping vigor, cauterize and sometime rally when needed.

There is no player or no build in this game, even if you have 6k healing vigor ticks(which is impossible) per seconds and 10k cauterize that could survive a 4vs1 focus of meta builds.

We asked him how, he just said he plays with average 20-30 ping and it felt like we were doing no damage to him, just vigor was enough to survive and of course a bit of line of sight.

When i try line of sight myself even on full pariah with very strong builds I receive hits even after 2-3 seconds when the enemy should have zero line of sight, and even if i block 2 ults I die in the next few seconds because my stamina is like vanished even if i build for 3k regens or 900, it's the same.

So I am way more convinced that when you do a 1vX it's because the server is not registering all the incoming damage into your hitbox.

So please avoid comments like l2p, it's a l2p issue, they have strong 1vX builds made for it, because it's not. I am playing this game for 4 or more years always pvp, just done pve for monster sets and for pvp sets, nothing else. The rest, bgs, cyro, imperial city so I am confident to say I know my own.

I also play in pc-eu of that's makes a difference for someone who can relate.

Hes not running trickery and potentates, thats just a regular excuse stamdks use, myself included. When undertaker was bugged i was asking alot of ppl what they think of undertaker knowing that they were using it. They would then say they were using daedric trickery or some other sets instead.

On my stamdk i get 4k vigor ticks, 5.5k crit and sometimes 10k cauterize crit with major mending. With bloodspawn procced i get 44k resists at 100% hp with 6.4k wpn damage and 13k pen. Damage might not seem like much but it is enough to kill players. Bear in mind vigor ticks every half second so with only vigor it is easy to get 8k+ hps on a stamdk.

Timing ults might be able to bring him down, but if there is no followup damage then he might survive even that, because your ults will probably max hit him for 7k each its 28k damage which could be survived but unlikely even if hes keeping hots up. Also if you were using dawnbreakers and he was running away from you guys then it is a lost cause, 2 or maybe even 3 of your dawnbreakers will miss him because of positional desync.

There are also still bugged sets that can be broken, but i only know of 2 currently and they are not extremely broken like undertaker. After playing for 4.3k i can confidently say 1vX is not possible because of desyncs, the only healthbar desyncs i know about is from overload + ele weapon, snipe sometimes, and if you pull people out of cloak with aoe damage. The only desyncs which help the 1vX'er is positional desync which is absolutely bs.

WabanakiWarrior · August 2021

Mann, I feel this! That was happening to me the other day. My internet can sometimes be terrible and I take almost no damage. It's broken, I know its happening. Ults just missing me completely. I was standing in a necro ult taking no damage, just because i was desynced tf out.
I guess its xing, but it's not like my hits are landing either. It's just broken.

Jameson18 · August 2021

WabanakiWarrior wrote: »

Mann, I feel this! That was happening to me the other day. My internet can sometimes be terrible, my ping drops down pretty low and I take almost no damage. It's broken, I know its happening. Ults just missing me completely. I was standing in a necro ult taking no damage, just because i was desynced tf out.
I guess its xing, but it's not like my hits are landing either. It's just broken.

I can attest to this as well.

I've gotten caught in an ulti dump and taken next to nothing before. Wasn't going to complain lol, but definitely a life saved by and a victory chalked up to desync.

AdamLAD · August 2021

What would you say if someone survives that all the time but theres even more people ult dumping ?

GRXRG · August 2021

Daffen wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

Lately I am building a theory.
We all know the game is full desyncs, the most common is the healthbar desync.

Im starting to think there is even damage desync, gear desyncs, stamina and magicka desyncs too.

I was with 3 other people in imperial city, all above 1000cp guys with lot of years in pvp experience.
We all running "meta" builds, mine could reach 7k wd and over 20k pen.
And yet we found a guy in imperial city no-cp we couldn't take down 4vs1.

He wasn't a tank, he wasn't running a magical 1vX build. He was just in Bloodspawn and trickery, vate2h and potentates sword and board because we asked him. He was absorbing literally 4 coordinated ults casted him just popping vigor, cauterize and sometime rally when needed.

There is no player or no build in this game, even if you have 6k healing vigor ticks(which is impossible) per seconds and 10k cauterize that could survive a 4vs1 focus of meta builds.

We asked him how, he just said he plays with average 20-30 ping and it felt like we were doing no damage to him, just vigor was enough to survive and of course a bit of line of sight.

When i try line of sight myself even on full pariah with very strong builds I receive hits even after 2-3 seconds when the enemy should have zero line of sight, and even if i block 2 ults I die in the next few seconds because my stamina is like vanished even if i build for 3k regens or 900, it's the same.

So I am way more convinced that when you do a 1vX it's because the server is not registering all the incoming damage into your hitbox.

So please avoid comments like l2p, it's a l2p issue, they have strong 1vX builds made for it, because it's not. I am playing this game for 4 or more years always pvp, just done pve for monster sets and for pvp sets, nothing else. The rest, bgs, cyro, imperial city so I am confident to say I know my own.

I also play in pc-eu of that's makes a difference for someone who can relate.

Hes not running trickery and potentates, thats just a regular excuse stamdks use, myself included. When undertaker was bugged i was asking alot of ppl what they think of undertaker knowing that they were using it. They would then say they were using daedric trickery or some other sets instead.

On my stamdk i get 4k vigor ticks, 5.5k crit and sometimes 10k cauterize crit with major mending. With bloodspawn procced i get 44k resists at 100% hp with 6.4k wpn damage and 13k pen. Damage might not seem like much but it is enough to kill players. Bear in mind vigor ticks every half second so with only vigor it is easy to get 8k+ hps on a stamdk.

Timing ults might be able to bring him down, but if there is no followup damage then he might survive even that, because your ults will probably max hit him for 7k each its 28k damage which could be survived but unlikely even if hes keeping hots up. Also if you were using dawnbreakers and he was running away from you guys then it is a lost cause, 2 or maybe even 3 of your dawnbreakers will miss him because of positional desync.

There are also still bugged sets that can be broken, but i only know of 2 currently and they are not extremely broken like undertaker. After playing for 4.3k i can confidently say 1vX is not possible because of desyncs, the only healthbar desyncs i know about is from overload + ele weapon, snipe sometimes, and if you pull people out of cloak with aoe damage. The only desyncs which help the 1vX'er is positional desync which is absolutely bs.

Hmmm i did send you a pm, if you can reply much appreciated.

milllaurie · August 2021

First of all, trickery is an AMAZINGLY strong set on stamdk. I can be unkillable on my stamdk if kiting well.
One thing you must take in consideration - were you running enough cc? That includes snares and immobilizes too, not only hard cc. If it was only dizzy and db - bad news for you - not enough. Off-balance has a very long cooldown and it does not matter how many dizzies involved - they share the same CD.
You are somewhat right here - 1vx is possible due to desyncs. Not hp desyncs though, the position ones. Always moving, LoSing, switching directions is the key to avoid incomming damage. Dawnbreakers have a really hard tine hitting moving targets. Movement also ensures you are out of range for some melee attacks.
Having lower ping than your opponents also helps a lot. You see more or less your actual position while they are seing your position 100ms or more in the past if they are lucky.

GRXRG · August 2021

milllaurie wrote: »

First of all, trickery is an AMAZINGLY strong set on stamdk. I can be unkillable on my stamdk if kiting well.
One tgung you must take in consideration - were you running enough cc? That includes snares and immobilizes too, not only hard cc. If it was only dizzy and db - bad news for you - not enough. Off-balance has a very long cooldown and it does not matter how many dizzies involved - they share the same CD.
You are somewhat right here - 1vx is possible due to desyncs. Not hp desyncs though, the position ones. Always moving, LoSing, switching directions is the key to avoid incomming damage. Dawnbreakers have a really hard tine hitting moving targets. Movement also ensures you are out of range for some melee attacks.
Having lower ping than your opponents also helps a lot. You see more or less your actual position while they are seing your position 100ms or more in the past if they are lucky.

Thia is what i am experimenting, i keep getting hit by executioners and many other skills behind walls while i shouldn't, seema like LoS doesn't work on my character at all.

milllaurie · August 2021

GRXRG wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

First of all, trickery is an AMAZINGLY strong set on stamdk. I can be unkillable on my stamdk if kiting well.
One tgung you must take in consideration - were you running enough cc? That includes snares and immobilizes too, not only hard cc. If it was only dizzy and db - bad news for you - not enough. Off-balance has a very long cooldown and it does not matter how many dizzies involved - they share the same CD.
You are somewhat right here - 1vx is possible due to desyncs. Not hp desyncs though, the position ones. Always moving, LoSing, switching directions is the key to avoid incomming damage. Dawnbreakers have a really hard tine hitting moving targets. Movement also ensures you are out of range for some melee attacks.
Having lower ping than your opponents also helps a lot. You see more or less your actual position while they are seing your position 100ms or more in the past if they are lucky.

Thia is what i am experimenting, i keep getting hit by executioners and many other skills behind walls while i shouldn't, seema like LoS doesn't work on my character at all.

This means your opponent is closer to you than he appears and you have a bad ping (or server latency is high, this is eso after all).

AuraStorm43 · August 2021

Its just not a good patch for “1vX” play, with how damage is this patch

Merforum · August 2021

GRXRG wrote: »

Lately I am building a theory.
We all know the game is full desyncs, the most common is the healthbar desync.

Im starting to think there is even damage desync, gear desyncs, stamina and magicka desyncs too.

I was with 3 other people in imperial city, all above 1000cp guys with lot of years in pvp experience.
We all running "meta" builds, mine could reach 7k wd and over 20k pen.
And yet we found a guy in imperial city no-cp we couldn't take down 4vs1.

He wasn't a tank, he wasn't running a magical 1vX build. He was just in Bloodspawn and trickery, vate2h and potentates sword and board because we asked him. He was absorbing literally 4 coordinated ults casted him just popping vigor, cauterize and sometime rally when needed.

There is no player or no build in this game, even if you have 6k healing vigor ticks(which is impossible) per seconds and 10k cauterize that could survive a 4vs1 focus of meta builds.

We asked him how, he just said he plays with average 20-30 ping and it felt like we were doing no damage to him, just vigor was enough to survive and of course a bit of line of sight.

When i try line of sight myself even on full pariah with very strong builds I receive hits even after 2-3 seconds when the enemy should have zero line of sight, and even if i block 2 ults I die in the next few seconds because my stamina is like vanished even if i build for 3k regens or 900, it's the same.

So I am way more convinced that when you do a 1vX it's because the server is not registering all the incoming damage into your hitbox.

So please avoid comments like l2p, it's a l2p issue, they have strong 1vX builds made for it, because it's not. I am playing this game for 4 or more years always pvp, just done pve for monster sets and for pvp sets, nothing else. The rest, bgs, cyro, imperial city so I am confident to say I know my own.

I also play in pc-eu of that's makes a difference for someone who can relate.

I think you are correct that there are desyncs all over the place. But other posters saying 'positional' is the worse of the worst is very true. And it has always been that way, that's why LOS, bunny hop and/or just running around like a chicken with head cut off makes so much of a difference. The positional desync is so insane though that being on an Orc or using wild hunt mythic makes any toon I have get less damage in PVP than full resist/health/blocking does. It's broken.

The biggest problem with ESO I think is that they have created a game where 100ms actions are possible but 1+sec delay is common. Obviously if you make a game that is too fast paced for the servers/network to handle you will have these issues. The bad thing is that some people have mastered working around the lag and gain an exponential benefit from others who can't do that or don't even know about it.

The obvious answer would be to slow the actions down to being within scope of what server/network can handle. But unfortunately the LOUD minority who master this crutch does not want that.

Sluggy · August 2021

As others said: your opponent's connection to the server vs your own is a huge factor if there is a big discrepancy between them. Many folks have suffered through those fights where entire keep walls and sometimes even floors are between them and their opponent yet they just can't break LoS. Yet every attack you attempt in return fails miserably with that wonderful little message at the top-right corner of the screen letting you know how hopeless it is to even bother. It's even worse of a feeling when they are running straight at you and landing melee attacks while dozens of meters away so that your client won't even allow you to use full-range attacks in return. And increasing your own movement speed will not solve this issue. It just causes a more noticeable desync between your own client and the server. I regularly see my bow attacks firing off so far behind me that I think there is a ganker attempting to shoot me from waaaay behind. At times like this I can even shoot arrows at myself if I circle strafe.

Ever since the LoS and blocking checks were pushed even further to the server-side (Was that Update 28? I can't even recall anymore) this has been a massive issue for a large portion of the player base both in PvP and PvE. While it *might* have mitigated some certain instances desyncing and possibly cheating on the client it probably did more harm than good.

Broken set effects (i.e. exploits) are another possibility but usually once something too obviously overpowering is found (like DKs with Spiked Armor and Undertaker a couple months ago) it becomes widespread and eventually gets fixed. So this can certainly be a contributing factor at times but probably isn't worth worrying about in the long-run. If you really ARE keen to look into such exploits, one thing you CAN do to try to figure out what is going on is use the built-in logging system along with the eso-logs website. You'll occasionally see something really odd and think, 'Hmmm, there is no WAY that this skill should be dealing this much damage/healing!'

Merforum · August 2021

Sluggy wrote: »

As others said: your opponent's connection to the server vs your own is a huge factor if there is a big discrepancy between them. Many folks have suffered through those fights where entire keep walls and sometimes even floors are between them and their opponent yet they just can't break LoS. Yet every attack you attempt in return fails miserably with that wonderful little message at the top-right corner of the screen letting you know how hopeless it is to even bother. It's even worse of a feeling when they are running straight at you and landing melee attacks while dozens of meters away so that your client won't even allow you to use full-range attacks in return. And increasing your own movement speed will not solve this issue. It just causes a more noticeable desync between your own client and the server. I regularly see my bow attacks firing off so far behind me that I think there is a ganker attempting to shoot me from waaaay behind. At times like this I can even shoot arrows at myself if I circle strafe.

Ever since the LoS and blocking checks were pushed even further to the server-side (Was that Update 28? I can't even recall anymore) this has been a massive issue for a large portion of the player base both in PvP and PvE. While it *might* have mitigated some certain instances desyncing and possibly cheating on the client it probably did more harm than good.

Broken set effects (i.e. exploits) are another possibility but usually once something too obviously overpowering is found (like DKs with Spiked Armor and Undertaker a couple months ago) it becomes widespread and eventually gets fixed. So this can certainly be a contributing factor at times but probably isn't worth worrying about in the long-run. If you really ARE keen to look into such exploits, one thing you CAN do to try to figure out what is going on is use the built-in logging system along with the eso-logs website. You'll occasionally see something really odd and think, 'Hmmm, there is no WAY that this skill should be dealing this much damage/healing!'

Yes I can concur with the connection issue. Here I am with a 5 year old laptop with bad vid and everything set to low graphics just to get 40 FR. And although I have 1G internet and no problems downloading or doing anything on internet, ESO has constant 100+ ping with spike to RED 999+ all the time. And when I watch streamers I see they have 100+ FR and 50 ping, never spiking to 999+ EVER. But I always laugh out loud when 1 of these dudes get killed and say 'OMG did you see that lag'. NO I DID NOT, I only wish I had that type of setup.

Merforum · August 2021

Merforum wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

As others said: your opponent's connection to the server vs your own is a huge factor if there is a big discrepancy between them. Many folks have suffered through those fights where entire keep walls and sometimes even floors are between them and their opponent yet they just can't break LoS. Yet every attack you attempt in return fails miserably with that wonderful little message at the top-right corner of the screen letting you know how hopeless it is to even bother. It's even worse of a feeling when they are running straight at you and landing melee attacks while dozens of meters away so that your client won't even allow you to use full-range attacks in return. And increasing your own movement speed will not solve this issue. It just causes a more noticeable desync between your own client and the server. I regularly see my bow attacks firing off so far behind me that I think there is a ganker attempting to shoot me from waaaay behind. At times like this I can even shoot arrows at myself if I circle strafe.

Ever since the LoS and blocking checks were pushed even further to the server-side (Was that Update 28? I can't even recall anymore) this has been a massive issue for a large portion of the player base both in PvP and PvE. While it *might* have mitigated some certain instances desyncing and possibly cheating on the client it probably did more harm than good.

Broken set effects (i.e. exploits) are another possibility but usually once something too obviously overpowering is found (like DKs with Spiked Armor and Undertaker a couple months ago) it becomes widespread and eventually gets fixed. So this can certainly be a contributing factor at times but probably isn't worth worrying about in the long-run. If you really ARE keen to look into such exploits, one thing you CAN do to try to figure out what is going on is use the built-in logging system along with the eso-logs website. You'll occasionally see something really odd and think, 'Hmmm, there is no WAY that this skill should be dealing this much damage/healing!'

Yes I can concur with the connection issue. Here I am with a 5 year old laptop with bad vid and everything set to low graphics just to get 40 FR. And although I have 1G internet and no problems downloading or doing anything on internet, ESO has constant 100+ ping with spike to RED 999+ all the time. And when I watch streamers I see they have 100+ FR and 50 ping, never spiking to 999+ EVER. But I always laugh out loud when 1 of these dudes get killed and say 'OMG did you see that lag'. NO I DID NOT, I only wish I had that type of setup.

Just one other point, even though I can avoid a lot of damage by running around a lot it is still better with my high ping to build tanky and slow things way down. And probably a lot of people have this same problem. So it is not just high damage which causes tanky builds.

Vevvev · August 2021

The strategy of 1vXing is to turn an outnumbered situation into something more manageable. Someone properly doing 1vX is not fighting the X but one to two people at a time by stringing them out using tactics like line of sight, speed, and crowd control. The game even promotes 1vXing by giving tips on how to do it in the death recap, but the tips are a bit too brief to really be of much help.

Sluggy · August 2021

@Merforum Absolutely. Building tanky just has so many advantages for most players with average-to-poor internet connections. I think it's unwarranted how much people shame and blame others for 'lazy gameplay' and 'cheese builds'. If you can make the server do the work for you then you don't have to worry as much about dropped or delayed inputs. I don't personally like playing that way but I can see why many would default to that.

To be fair though, when streams talk about lag I don't doubt they are experiencing it too. The ping is averaged out over time so you could easily be spiking up and down and rarely see the indicator change by much (it only updates every five or ten seconds iirc and averages out everything over that period). Also there is always server lag - which EVERYONE suffers from during primetime and big fights. But this is usually quite obvious 'cause EVERYONE in the area will be running around struggling to get even the most basic of actions to function.

Merforum · August 2021

Sluggy wrote: »

@Merforum Absolutely. Building tanky just has so many advantages for most players with average-to-poor internet connections. I think it's unwarranted how much people shame and blame others for 'lazy gameplay' and 'cheese builds'. If you can make the server do the work for you then you don't have to worry as much about dropped or delayed inputs. I don't personally like playing that way but I can see why many would default to that.

To be fair though, when streams talk about lag I don't doubt they are experiencing it too. The ping is averaged out over time so you could easily be spiking up and down and rarely see the indicator change by much (it only updates every five or ten seconds iirc and averages out everything over that period). Also there is always server lag - which EVERYONE suffers from during primetime and big fights. But this is usually quite obvious 'cause EVERYONE in the area will be running around struggling to get even the most basic of actions to function.

Exactly the shaming tanky is very unwarranted. I agree with you mostly when you can see a streamer lag it is kind of obvious and you can see a skill grey out or something. But I think you and I are talking about lag that is much worse than a once per hours event like that. There are hundreds of hours of vids out there and you can see very clearly they almost NEVER get the ping 999+, which I get all the time. Just for people that don't know that is at a minimum a 1 second delay whenever it happens. I'll give you an example this will happen to me maybe 50 times in a typical 15 minute BG, but I'll see it happen maybe 1 or 2 times to a streamer in 6 hours.

Thing that bothers me is that I'm an IT consultant and know how to tweak stuff but don't know how to make it better. Also I play with controller and have tried K/M and can say controller is way easier but MUCH SLOWER too, probably losing another 100-200ms there. It just seems like this game was tested and optimized on a LAN inside the same network as the server and tuned for that, instead of testing and tuning from a typical remote site with a typical end users speed, which makes it too fast for I'd bet more than half the player base. It doesn't really ruin PVE unless you are trying do hardest content, but for PVP it is severely limiting and frustrating. I'd love to see a test where they slowed everything down just a little bit.

ResidentContrarian · August 2021

1vX will always be possible due to player skill, but more importantly, imbalance between class and gear.

On the next point about ping, I can tell you that at 35-60 ping during primetime on the servers, you have a massive advantage vs. everyone else lagging.

My ping rarely ever moves past 60, and because of it I can use a full glass build in Cyro and other PvP modes with little penalty. With a speed build no one can damage me if they are lagging because I can see them easily and counter properly while they cannot.

I rarely ever get any desync, and that is why I am always the hammer killer on whatever faction I am playing

Merforum · August 2021

Sluggy wrote: »

@Merforum Absolutely. Building tanky just has so many advantages for most players with average-to-poor internet connections. I think it's unwarranted how much people shame and blame others for 'lazy gameplay' and 'cheese builds'. If you can make the server do the work for you then you don't have to worry as much about dropped or delayed inputs. I don't personally like playing that way but I can see why many would default to that.

To be fair though, when streams talk about lag I don't doubt they are experiencing it too. The ping is averaged out over time so you could easily be spiking up and down and rarely see the indicator change by much (it only updates every five or ten seconds iirc and averages out everything over that period). Also there is always server lag - which EVERYONE suffers from during primetime and big fights. But this is usually quite obvious 'cause EVERYONE in the area will be running around struggling to get even the most basic of actions to function.

Yeah and actually I think it is exactly the same thing with proc sets, people where using them because NOTHING ELSE WAS GOING OFF. And just getting a hit was hard enough so the bit of added damage every 10-15 seconds was nice. And notice right now EVERY SINGLE person who was complaining about proc sets when they weren't that bad is stacking 8000 weapon damage and exploiting 3 proc sets now, with damage scaled to the moon. Stam sorc on assass/vat 2h/ashen/crysWpn is off the chart, and you get 4+ procs off 1 medium attack, don't even need an ult.

BTW I played a few BGs today and didn't have noticable lag but did have my usual 200ms-1sec delay on most actions. And for the past several weeks since last patch, I have had a hard crash about once per day every day.

GRXRG · August 2021

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

1vX will always be possible due to player skill, but more importantly, imbalance between class and gear.

On the next point about ping, I can tell you that at 35-60 ping during primetime on the servers, you have a massive advantage vs. everyone else lagging.

My ping rarely ever moves past 60, and because of it I can use a full glass build in Cyro and other PvP modes with little penalty. With a speed build no one can damage me if they are lagging because I can see them easily and counter properly while they cannot.

I rarely ever get any desync, and that is why I am always the hammer killer on whatever faction I am playing

My ping is 50 very consistently, never go above 90.
But the experience it feels like I am playing with 500ms, I mean not exactly, but it's like my character is 500ms positional desynced from where I see it on the screen.
Sometimes I am on top of players and execute doesn't cast even being a Dk with extra melee range, and on opposite I am behind pillars and people are still able to connect dizzy swings nonstop and I don't get the LoS benefit at all and trust me it sucks when happens.

itscompton · August 2021

I can't see ping playing on console but every once in a while I'll log in to PvP and within a few minutes I'll realize I've got a "magic" connection to the server that has zero lag compared to everyone else. It doesn't happen very often but when it does it feels like I'm playing with cheat codes turned on. It makes it super easy to outheal incoming damage since I always have time to react by blocking or dodging combos but is most noticeable when I stun people and they consistently can't break for a good 2-3 seconds even if they have full resources. What really makes me a big believer in the ping theory is that there are certain people that almost always smack me down 1v1 but if I get that type of connection suddenly I can beat them 4 out of 5 times.

GRXRG · August 2021

itscompton wrote: »

I can't see ping playing on console but every once in a while I'll log in to PvP and within a few minutes I'll realize I've got a "magic" connection to the server that has zero lag compared to everyone else. It doesn't happen very often but when it does it feels like I'm playing with cheat codes turned on. It makes it super easy to outheal incoming damage since I always have time to react by blocking or dodging combos but is most noticeable when I stun people and they consistently can't break for a good 2-3 seconds even if they have full resources. What really makes me a big believer in the ping theory is that there are certain people that almost always smack me down 1v1 but if I get that type of connection suddenly I can beat them 4 out of 5 times.

Happens to me a lot, just for barely 10 minutes of the whole day, i was accused of cheating by 5star players because they couldn't kill me 4vs1.

Then after 1 hour a random 300cp nightblade land an incap onto me i break free and dodge roll and im dead to 5 surprise attacks and bow proc who went through dodge for some reason.

Merforum · August 2021

GRXRG wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

I can't see ping playing on console but every once in a while I'll log in to PvP and within a few minutes I'll realize I've got a "magic" connection to the server that has zero lag compared to everyone else. It doesn't happen very often but when it does it feels like I'm playing with cheat codes turned on. It makes it super easy to outheal incoming damage since I always have time to react by blocking or dodging combos but is most noticeable when I stun people and they consistently can't break for a good 2-3 seconds even if they have full resources. What really makes me a big believer in the ping theory is that there are certain people that almost always smack me down 1v1 but if I get that type of connection suddenly I can beat them 4 out of 5 times.

Happens to me a lot, just for barely 10 minutes of the whole day, i was accused of cheating by 5star players because they couldn't kill me 4vs1.

Then after 1 hour a random 300cp nightblade land an incap onto me i break free and dodge roll and im dead to 5 surprise attacks and bow proc who went through dodge for some reason.

That is interesting. I did notice that on PTS I can actually do stuff like light attack animation canceling but on Live not really. It is a shame that the game isn't tuned more toward allowing everyone to feel the same experience, rather than having some people be able to do amazing thing while the majority are lagged out. When some people can do 2 things per second and others only can do 1 thing every 2 seconds that is not good.

GRXRG · August 2021

Merforum wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

I can't see ping playing on console but every once in a while I'll log in to PvP and within a few minutes I'll realize I've got a "magic" connection to the server that has zero lag compared to everyone else. It doesn't happen very often but when it does it feels like I'm playing with cheat codes turned on. It makes it super easy to outheal incoming damage since I always have time to react by blocking or dodging combos but is most noticeable when I stun people and they consistently can't break for a good 2-3 seconds even if they have full resources. What really makes me a big believer in the ping theory is that there are certain people that almost always smack me down 1v1 but if I get that type of connection suddenly I can beat them 4 out of 5 times.

Happens to me a lot, just for barely 10 minutes of the whole day, i was accused of cheating by 5star players because they couldn't kill me 4vs1.

Then after 1 hour a random 300cp nightblade land an incap onto me i break free and dodge roll and im dead to 5 surprise attacks and bow proc who went through dodge for some reason.

That is interesting. I did notice that on PTS I can actually do stuff like light attack animation canceling but on Live not really. It is a shame that the game isn't tuned more toward allowing everyone to feel the same experience, rather than having some people be able to do amazing thing while the majority are lagged out. When some people can do 2 things per second and others only can do 1 thing every 2 seconds that is not good.

Maybe the people close to the megaservers, for EU it's located in Germany are the ones who benefit the magic everytime they play, they maybe think they are god, if only they knew in which state I am playing the game instead. I think i could be able to 1vs5 all of them xD

Merforum · August 2021

GRXRG wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

I can't see ping playing on console but every once in a while I'll log in to PvP and within a few minutes I'll realize I've got a "magic" connection to the server that has zero lag compared to everyone else. It doesn't happen very often but when it does it feels like I'm playing with cheat codes turned on. It makes it super easy to outheal incoming damage since I always have time to react by blocking or dodging combos but is most noticeable when I stun people and they consistently can't break for a good 2-3 seconds even if they have full resources. What really makes me a big believer in the ping theory is that there are certain people that almost always smack me down 1v1 but if I get that type of connection suddenly I can beat them 4 out of 5 times.

Happens to me a lot, just for barely 10 minutes of the whole day, i was accused of cheating by 5star players because they couldn't kill me 4vs1.

Then after 1 hour a random 300cp nightblade land an incap onto me i break free and dodge roll and im dead to 5 surprise attacks and bow proc who went through dodge for some reason.

That is interesting. I did notice that on PTS I can actually do stuff like light attack animation canceling but on Live not really. It is a shame that the game isn't tuned more toward allowing everyone to feel the same experience, rather than having some people be able to do amazing thing while the majority are lagged out. When some people can do 2 things per second and others only can do 1 thing every 2 seconds that is not good.

Maybe the people close to the megaservers, for EU it's located in Germany are the ones who benefit the magic everytime they play, they maybe think they are god, if only they knew in which state I am playing the game instead. I think i could be able to 1vs5 all of them xD

I'm in NA and think servers are in texas or East coast. I'm in CA. Just another bit of delay to the scenario. I would say they should test both servers from somewhere like australia, and tune the game based on that. It is pretty obvious that if they slow stuff down a tiny bit enough to remove the network and/or server bottlenecks, they could probably fix a lot. Unless the programming is spaghetti and doesn't allow adding some different timings for stuff. Just add like a larger window for actions, for instance, you push a button, it fires at 700ms, unless you cancel with dodge, block, bash, then that activity happen but the skill is cancelled and costs nothing. Also if you push another skill within the same second it is buffered but only goes off after 1.7 seconds, unless cancelled. Pretty simple really and obviously during testing you shorten the time until you hit a point where things start to have problem, then you know what the system can handle, while optimizing speed.

PhoenixGrey · August 2021

GRXRG wrote: »

Lately I am building a theory.
We all know the game is full desyncs, the most common is the healthbar desync.

Im starting to think there is even damage desync, gear desyncs, stamina and magicka desyncs too.

I was with 3 other people in imperial city, all above 1000cp guys with lot of years in pvp experience.
We all running "meta" builds, mine could reach 7k wd and over 20k pen.
And yet we found a guy in imperial city no-cp we couldn't take down 4vs1.

He wasn't a tank, he wasn't running a magical 1vX build. He was just in Bloodspawn and trickery, vate2h and potentates sword and board because we asked him. He was absorbing literally 4 coordinated ults casted him just popping vigor, cauterize and sometime rally when needed.

There is no player or no build in this game, even if you have 6k healing vigor ticks(which is impossible) per seconds and 10k cauterize that could survive a 4vs1 focus of meta builds.

We asked him how, he just said he plays with average 20-30 ping and it felt like we were doing no damage to him, just vigor was enough to survive and of course a bit of line of sight.

When i try line of sight myself even on full pariah with very strong builds I receive hits even after 2-3 seconds when the enemy should have zero line of sight, and even if i block 2 ults I die in the next few seconds because my stamina is like vanished even if i build for 3k regens or 900, it's the same.

So I am way more convinced that when you do a 1vX it's because the server is not registering all the incoming damage into your hitbox.

So please avoid comments like l2p, it's a l2p issue, they have strong 1vX builds made for it, because it's not. I am playing this game for 4 or more years always pvp, just done pve for monster sets and for pvp sets, nothing else. The rest, bgs, cyro, imperial city so I am confident to say I know my own.

I also play in pc-eu of that's makes a difference for someone who can relate.

Maybe not trying to zerg someone 4v1 will probably answer your question better ?

Players who often play solo are usually better than players who crutch on their group.

It's just that you lost to someone better

Zabagad · August 2021

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GRXRG · August 2021

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

Lately I am building a theory.
We all know the game is full desyncs, the most common is the healthbar desync.

Im starting to think there is even damage desync, gear desyncs, stamina and magicka desyncs too.

I was with 3 other people in imperial city, all above 1000cp guys with lot of years in pvp experience.
We all running "meta" builds, mine could reach 7k wd and over 20k pen.
And yet we found a guy in imperial city no-cp we couldn't take down 4vs1.

He wasn't a tank, he wasn't running a magical 1vX build. He was just in Bloodspawn and trickery, vate2h and potentates sword and board because we asked him. He was absorbing literally 4 coordinated ults casted him just popping vigor, cauterize and sometime rally when needed.

There is no player or no build in this game, even if you have 6k healing vigor ticks(which is impossible) per seconds and 10k cauterize that could survive a 4vs1 focus of meta builds.

We asked him how, he just said he plays with average 20-30 ping and it felt like we were doing no damage to him, just vigor was enough to survive and of course a bit of line of sight.

When i try line of sight myself even on full pariah with very strong builds I receive hits even after 2-3 seconds when the enemy should have zero line of sight, and even if i block 2 ults I die in the next few seconds because my stamina is like vanished even if i build for 3k regens or 900, it's the same.

So I am way more convinced that when you do a 1vX it's because the server is not registering all the incoming damage into your hitbox.

So please avoid comments like l2p, it's a l2p issue, they have strong 1vX builds made for it, because it's not. I am playing this game for 4 or more years always pvp, just done pve for monster sets and for pvp sets, nothing else. The rest, bgs, cyro, imperial city so I am confident to say I know my own.

I also play in pc-eu of that's makes a difference for someone who can relate.

Maybe not trying to zerg someone 4v1 will probably answer your question better ?

Players who often play solo are usually better than players who crutch on their group.

It's just that you lost to someone better

[snip] I play solo 100% of the times, I push myself into battles I cannot win to improve myself.

Always 1vX in cyro and ic.

It just happened while I was roaming around in imperial city no-cp and saw 3 alliance mate fighting this blue players, I recognized their names and I saw they were literally doing close to zero damage to him, and he wasn't the usual permablock 60k hp tank, so I decided to join and see what happens, and yeah, he absorbing leaps and dawnbreakers like nothing, my damage was not landing on his hitbox even if in my screen I was hitting him.

And I even whispered asked him and he told me he was just on trickery and amazed how he was surviving as well, we all had serious builds that works in bgs as well and not some potato random gear builds.

[snip]

Thanks.

[Edited for bashing]

ResidentContrarian · August 2021

GRXRG wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

1vX will always be possible due to player skill, but more importantly, imbalance between class and gear.

On the next point about ping, I can tell you that at 35-60 ping during primetime on the servers, you have a massive advantage vs. everyone else lagging.

My ping rarely ever moves past 60, and because of it I can use a full glass build in Cyro and other PvP modes with little penalty. With a speed build no one can damage me if they are lagging because I can see them easily and counter properly while they cannot.

I rarely ever get any desync, and that is why I am always the hammer killer on whatever faction I am playing

My ping is 50 very consistently, never go above 90.
But the experience it feels like I am playing with 500ms, I mean not exactly, but it's like my character is 500ms positional desynced from where I see it on the screen.
Sometimes I am on top of players and execute doesn't cast even being a Dk with extra melee range, and on opposite I am behind pillars and people are still able to connect dizzy swings nonstop and I don't get the LoS benefit at all and trust me it sucks when happens.

What kind of connection do you have? Wired or Wireless?

Also, do you have a desktop or laptop?

If you have a laptop or use a wireless adapter, try setting Windows Power Options to "high performance" when playing this game, then disabling power saving on your network adapter (in device manager) and see if it helps any.

If your router is wireless and has 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz radios, try disabling the 2.4Ghz radio on your wireless card and only go 5Ghz (you can usually set this in device manager). Definitely change it if it is on "auto" because some routers have terrible auto-connect algorithms and swap you between radios over and over again raising ping or increasing overall lag due to packet loss. However, since ESO only samples ping at intervals greater than 100 ms (or it seems like its not constant, definitely doesn't match the ping recorded directly from the network adapter on my PC), then this might not be registered on your ping counter, but can still be a source of lag.

If you use ethernet and connect with an ethernet cable and know your absolute connection speed is not 1Gbps or alters too much, try setting your max connection speed to the router to a lower value. Use full duplex if you are connected directly to the router, use half duplex if you are connected to another router that connects to your main router wirelessly.

If your connection is set to "auto speed" this will usually result in a lot of lag or connection drops depending on the game, it is almost always better to set the ethernet adapter speed manually and choose a speed that is either at or below the speed of your connection due to Windows' network connection algorithm and scaling. If you don't Windows will keep on changing the buffer size and scaling, and there is no way to disable this feature since it is hardcoded into Windows and even some network adapters themselves (these cause hardware interrupts when they change the buffer size, in other words it causes a lot of lag).

You should also disable power saving on the ethernet adapter and check the results, these settings are sometimes listed as "power saving mode" "low power mode" "green ethernet" "TX remediation" ... or it may not be shown on your network card at all. The good news is that Windows does usually allow you to override those settings when you uncheck the general power saving option.

Every PC is different, but you can see if that helps a little in your case...

GRXRG · August 2021

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

1vX will always be possible due to player skill, but more importantly, imbalance between class and gear.

On the next point about ping, I can tell you that at 35-60 ping during primetime on the servers, you have a massive advantage vs. everyone else lagging.

My ping rarely ever moves past 60, and because of it I can use a full glass build in Cyro and other PvP modes with little penalty. With a speed build no one can damage me if they are lagging because I can see them easily and counter properly while they cannot.

I rarely ever get any desync, and that is why I am always the hammer killer on whatever faction I am playing

My ping is 50 very consistently, never go above 90.
But the experience it feels like I am playing with 500ms, I mean not exactly, but it's like my character is 500ms positional desynced from where I see it on the screen.
Sometimes I am on top of players and execute doesn't cast even being a Dk with extra melee range, and on opposite I am behind pillars and people are still able to connect dizzy swings nonstop and I don't get the LoS benefit at all and trust me it sucks when happens.

What kind of connection do you have? Wired or Wireless?

Also, do you have a desktop or laptop?

If you have a laptop or use a wireless adapter, try setting Windows Power Options to "high performance" when playing this game, then disabling power saving on your network adapter (in device manager) and see if it helps any.

If your router is wireless and has 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz radios, try disabling the 2.4Ghz radio on your wireless card and only go 5Ghz (you can usually set this in device manager). Definitely change it if it is on "auto" because some routers have terrible auto-connect algorithms and swap you between radios over and over again raising ping or increasing overall lag due to packet loss. However, since ESO only samples ping at intervals greater than 100 ms (or it seems like its not constant, definitely doesn't match the ping recorded directly from the network adapter on my PC), then this might not be registered on your ping counter, but can still be a source of lag.

If you use ethernet and connect with an ethernet cable and know your absolute connection speed is not 1Gbps or alters too much, try setting your max connection speed to the router to a lower value. Use full duplex if you are connected directly to the router, use half duplex if you are connected to another router that connects to your main router wirelessly.

If your connection is set to "auto speed" this will usually result in a lot of lag or connection drops depending on the game, it is almost always better to set the ethernet adapter speed manually and choose a speed that is either at or below the speed of your connection due to Windows' network connection algorithm and scaling. If you don't Windows will keep on changing the buffer size and scaling, and there is no way to disable this feature since it is hardcoded into Windows and even some network adapters themselves (these cause hardware interrupts when they change the buffer size, in other words it causes a lot of lag).

You should also disable power saving on the ethernet adapter and check the results, these settings are sometimes listed as "power saving mode" "low power mode" "green ethernet" "TX remediation" ... or it may not be shown on your network card at all. The good news is that Windows does usually allow you to override those settings when you uncheck the general power saving option.

Every PC is different, but you can see if that helps a little in your case...

I am using ethernet on a desktop and already followed all possible guides aboit power saving and registry values edits and so on, seems they all helped quite a bit.

How do i check if my connection is setted to autospeed actually? And i dont know about that duplex you are talking about.
Apologies for my ignorance.