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fee for changing roles, but allowing premades of 4 to queue regardless of what roles are chosen
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Waseem✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Those cases only describe absolute min-maxing. Which is not needed in any case, if players are well suited for their role.
ZOS should simply set a minimum requirement for the roles, and not allow gear/skillswapping in dungeons. This is the only way, even though it hurts builddiversity somewhat. But overall it would be better for the game. Add to that being unable to start bosses with less than three people, and not being able to skip bosses. And most dungeon issues would be fixed. (maybe add solo training dungeons as well, for each role)
The issue with that is not build diversity, but
1. People will end up wiping cause you can't change a skill to something beneficial in specific bosses (crushing shock in vSG 1st boss for example).
2. You will not be able to be more tanky if needed.
3. You will not be able to slot more group heals if needed.
4. You will not be able to go more damage if needed.
5. You will not be able to queue while doing a different activity cause you will lack the correct skills (PvP, overland, whatever).
6. You can't fix your skills/gear in case you f***ed up and forgot something.
7. You can't change sets if you end up giving the same buff as another group member.
That's nonsense. ZOS does not need to do anything on the forums, they only need to place in-game restrictions on the roles themselves. If players choose a role that has long queue's, that is on the players. All those fake tanks, could play real tanks, or wait in queue like their role is supposed to. But those players want it all, and they want it now... regardless of if they are wasting other player's their time. They choose to abuse the system.And then, you'll find out that you are queing 2 hours to find a group for fungal grotto
There will never be a solution for this
25% of players must be tanks
25% of players must be healers
50% of players must be damage dealers
Do you really think these percentages are a reflection of current ESO players queing for dungeons? lolno
You are asking zenimax to create real tanks and real healers to join your group finder que, which is a dream
good luck in sorting this out
If I was a forum moderator i'll close group finder complaints on the spot saying:
"Zenimax can't create tanks and healers for your group finder team to meet up the demand"
So please stop trying to refocus the discussion so it goes away, and so fake roles can keep abusing the current system. They are cheating, and force their abuse on other players while doing so. This has to stop!
Personally I feel all the experience and bonusses earned by fake roles, is something they were never supposed to earn!
PS: All of this is besides the harmful effect fake roles have on the overall longterm health of the game.
Zenimax can't create tanks and healers out of thin air for your group finder team to meet up the demand.0 -
svendf✭✭✭✭It's hilarious how people who are ruining DF by Qing as fake roles and just speedrunning
Ruining? By completing it faster? In normals, which we know this is mostly about, who cares? So what?
These DD's crack me up. It's kind they get into a dungeon and demand their protection from the tank and healer. They freak if they get a single add on them. You see them often back up towards the front of the dungeon in fear.
Maybe they want to stop and look at the individual loot to not take up their precious bag space.
Maybe they forgot to charge their weapons and eat food before entering the dungeon.
Maybe they want to test through every line of dialogue for a quest they already did 20 times.
Plenty of other real things to worry about in this game and this is what some of these people are complaining about?
In normals tanks and healers are IRRELEVANT.
For "you" tanks and healers are"IIRRELEVANT" in normal dungeons. The sad story is "you" are not alone.
Just because some "maybe" and I say maybe because there are player´s out there having problems handling content in a duo dd setup. Im ok with 4 dds in a premade group, noot so much in an official public tool
For those, who have the power should not be able to dictate how others should run a dungeon. We have roles like tank, dd and healer, that´s how it´s setup plain and simple
Maybe I misunderstood your post
Edited by svendf on August 12, 2021 7:47AM0 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I only every do the daily random with guildies, and we always just change whatever we are queuing as to fit in. I only use solo builds so I'm pretty much fake everything.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.0 -
svendf✭✭✭✭It´s absolutly possible to run dungeons in a solo build. Alot of these builds can do alot of damage. Non of my helaers ot tanks are buff monkeys and if the dps is low anyway, then it doesnn´t matter anyway.
That change, if you run trials or a scoreboard runner, where the lead require roles to be inline, with the rest of the team and tactics.Edited by svendf on August 12, 2021 3:18PM0 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm sorry but the only way to solve the problem is to remove all normal dungeons.
No normal dungeons reduces the abilities of speed runners to speed run as everything will be on vet.
There is also am increased need for tanks and healers.
Problem solved.
And no, I'm not serious, and care not if someone fake tanks or fake heals as normals are easy1 -
Meredy✭✭✭
Those cases only describe absolute min-maxing. Which is not needed in any case, if players are well suited for their role.
ZOS should simply set a minimum requirement for the roles, and not allow gear/skillswapping in dungeons. This is the only way, even though it hurts builddiversity somewhat. But overall it would be better for the game. Add to that being unable to start bosses with less than three people, and not being able to skip bosses. And most dungeon issues would be fixed. (maybe add solo training dungeons as well, for each role)
The issue with that is not build diversity, but
1. People will end up wiping cause you can't change a skill to something beneficial in specific bosses (crushing shock in vSG 1st boss for example).
2. You will not be able to be more tanky if needed.
3. You will not be able to slot more group heals if needed.
4. You will not be able to go more damage if needed.
5. You will not be able to queue while doing a different activity cause you will lack the correct skills (PvP, overland, whatever).
6. You can't fix your skills/gear in case you f***ed up and forgot something.
7. You can't change sets if you end up giving the same buff as another group member.
That's nonsense. ZOS does not need to do anything on the forums, they only need to place in-game restrictions on the roles themselves. If players choose a role that has long queue's, that is on the players. All those fake tanks, could play real tanks, or wait in queue like their role is supposed to. But those players want it all, and they want it now... regardless of if they are wasting other player's their time. They choose to abuse the system.And then, you'll find out that you are queing 2 hours to find a group for fungal grotto
There will never be a solution for this
25% of players must be tanks
25% of players must be healers
50% of players must be damage dealers
Do you really think these percentages are a reflection of current ESO players queing for dungeons? lolno
You are asking zenimax to create real tanks and real healers to join your group finder que, which is a dream
good luck in sorting this out
If I was a forum moderator i'll close group finder complaints on the spot saying:
"Zenimax can't create tanks and healers for your group finder team to meet up the demand"
So please stop trying to refocus the discussion so it goes away, and so fake roles can keep abusing the current system. They are cheating, and force their abuse on other players while doing so. This has to stop!
Personally I feel all the experience and bonusses earned by fake roles, is something they were never supposed to earn!
PS: All of this is besides the harmful effect fake roles have on the overall longterm health of the game.
Zenimax can't create tanks and healers out of thin air for your group finder team to meet up the demand.
That's what the queue is for.0 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭I could clear every normal dungeon including DLCs and all the Vet lvl1 with just me and my brother. For 2 years we did 3 pledges every single day. I stopped playing with him and did daily randoms on 2-13 toons a day (as mag REAL healer, stam REAL tank). And/or I soloed for daily pledges, and with companion. BUT when I first start playing, I couldn't do FG1 without dying over and over even with 4 in team.
The point of these threads is NOT can someone complete some dungeon. IT IS, are the very generous rewards for 'random normal' supposed to reward experienced players FOR HELPING NEW PLAYERS GET BETTER AND LEARN TO PLAY THE ROLES PROPERLY or just free stuff for blowing thru it as fast as possible. Obviously only ZOS can answer this for themselves.
BTW if they don't care about just giving us free stuff then why can't we do the daily random with 1 other real person and 2 companions. This would also be a way to get the daily reward, level companions, and let speedrunners not ruin Q. BTW companions are very weak but in most cases better than a beginner player in every role, especially healer.
Also I requested this when companions were announced please make them SCALE with content, meaning a companion DD can do about 5K DPS MAX right now, which is fine in normals but it would be nice if they did at least 10K DPS in Vet. This would also solve the second problem people complain about which is terrible DPS in Vet. 10K would still be low but better than some GF players.0 -
Meredy✭✭✭I could clear every normal dungeon including DLCs and all the Vet lvl1 with just me and my brother. For 2 years we did 3 pledges every single day. I stopped playing with him and did daily randoms on 2-13 toons a day (as mag REAL healer, stam REAL tank). And/or I soloed for daily pledges, and with companion. BUT when I first start playing, I couldn't do FG1 without dying over and over even with 4 in team.
The point of these threads is NOT can someone complete some dungeon. IT IS, are the very generous rewards for 'random normal' supposed to reward experienced players FOR HELPING NEW PLAYERS GET BETTER AND LEARN TO PLAY THE ROLES PROPERLY or just free stuff for blowing thru it as fast as possible. Obviously only ZOS can answer this for themselves.
BTW if they don't care about just giving us free stuff then why can't we do the daily random with 1 other real person and 2 companions. This would also be a way to get the daily reward, level companions, and let speedrunners not ruin Q. BTW companions are very weak but in most cases better than a beginner player in every role, especially healer.
Also I requested this when companions were announced please make them SCALE with content, meaning a companion DD can do about 5K DPS MAX right now, which is fine in normals but it would be nice if they did at least 10K DPS in Vet. This would also solve the second problem people complain about which is terrible DPS in Vet. 10K would still be low but better than some GF players.
ty for saying this. people overlook that and are very narrow minded here, and have trouble imagining that things might have been issues for other people1 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭I could clear every normal dungeon including DLCs and all the Vet lvl1 with just me and my brother. For 2 years we did 3 pledges every single day. I stopped playing with him and did daily randoms on 2-13 toons a day (as mag REAL healer, stam REAL tank). And/or I soloed for daily pledges, and with companion. BUT when I first start playing, I couldn't do FG1 without dying over and over even with 4 in team.
The point of these threads is NOT can someone complete some dungeon. IT IS, are the very generous rewards for 'random normal' supposed to reward experienced players FOR HELPING NEW PLAYERS GET BETTER AND LEARN TO PLAY THE ROLES PROPERLY or just free stuff for blowing thru it as fast as possible. Obviously only ZOS can answer this for themselves.
BTW if they don't care about just giving us free stuff then why can't we do the daily random with 1 other real person and 2 companions. This would also be a way to get the daily reward, level companions, and let speedrunners not ruin Q. BTW companions are very weak but in most cases better than a beginner player in every role, especially healer.
Also I requested this when companions were announced please make them SCALE with content, meaning a companion DD can do about 5K DPS MAX right now, which is fine in normals but it would be nice if they did at least 10K DPS in Vet. This would also solve the second problem people complain about which is terrible DPS in Vet. 10K would still be low but better than some GF players.
ty for saying this. people overlook that and are very narrow minded here, and have trouble imagining that things might have been issues for other people
You are right. There are several topics like fake tank/healer where if you ever try to talk about solutions/ideas, you will be insulted, attacked and have the subject changed, it happens to me every time. Thanks.1 -
ajkb78✭✭✭✭✭People fake-pugging their role is a problem with the current ESO group finder. A lot of times you will encounter queuing up as a Tank or Healer, when they're in reality a poor performing damage dealer.
To prevent this it could be nice to introduce a fee of like 5-10k gold in order to prevent people from changing their roles on a whim.
For premade groups of 4 people that actually WANT to rush a dungeon with full on damage dealers, I suggest removing the requirements of having a tank and healer in the group.
Queing up as a fake role is very inconsiderate for your fellow group member you do not know, and they don't know you and what you are up to.
No thanks. I use my main in all 3 roles (with legitimate builds), I have enough skill points to fill all the needed armour skills as well as destro, resto and 1h+s weapon skill lines. It already costs me 3k for a CP change and more to change attributes if I'm changing between tank and other role, plus a couple of k to change morphs on a few skills if I'm doing anything challenging. An additional fee on top of that to change roles would not be welcome.
The fee won't even prevent fake tanks, they'll just set their role permanently as tank.0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭its quite simple...there are no "real" tanks nor healers needed for any normal Dungeon...
It doesnt matter if there is a heal or not, every class has more than enough selfheal in their kit to survive everything except a few oneshot mechanics. (Which can be dodged)
I queue regularly as a fake tank on my DD (I slot a taunt and use it to a 100% uptime on bosses and heavy hitting mops) and still I deal regularly more than 50% of the groups Damage, while having 3 other players with more tahn 1k CP
the reason ppl like me queue as fake tanks, is because there are so many "fake" DDs who litteraly would heal the boss if they could.
If you have a fake tank or healer which isnt doing their job like taunting or giving some lvl of support then just start a votekick.
If they have a premade then you wont be able to kick him, however you always have the option to leave by yourselfPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer3 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »its quite simple...there are no "real" tanks nor healers needed for any normal Dungeon...
It doesnt matter if there is a heal or not, every class has more than enough selfheal in their kit to survive everything except a few oneshot mechanics. (Which can be dodged)
I queue regularly as a fake tank on my DD (I slot a taunt and use it to a 100% uptime on bosses and heavy hitting mops) and still I deal regularly more than 50% of the groups Damage, while having 3 other players with more tahn 1k CP
the reason ppl like me queue as fake tanks, is because there are so many "fake" DDs who litteraly would heal the boss if they could.
If you have a fake tank or healer which isnt doing their job like taunting or giving some lvl of support then just start a votekick.
If they have a premade then you wont be able to kick him, however you always have the option to leave by yourself
If you slot a taunt and keep 100% uptime on bosses you are, by definition, taking not a fake tanking.
I don't understando how people can't understand this. Your only expectation as a tank in normal dungeons is to have a taunt and keep bosses and major mobs taunted.
If you do that, you are tanking.Edited by Calm_Fury on August 17, 2021 5:21PM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »its quite simple...there are no "real" tanks nor healers needed for any normal Dungeon...
It doesnt matter if there is a heal or not, every class has more than enough selfheal in their kit to survive everything except a few oneshot mechanics. (Which can be dodged)
I queue regularly as a fake tank on my DD (I slot a taunt and use it to a 100% uptime on bosses and heavy hitting mops) and still I deal regularly more than 50% of the groups Damage, while having 3 other players with more tahn 1k CP
the reason ppl like me queue as fake tanks, is because there are so many "fake" DDs who litteraly would heal the boss if they could.
If you have a fake tank or healer which isnt doing their job like taunting or giving some lvl of support then just start a votekick.
If they have a premade then you wont be able to kick him, however you always have the option to leave by yourself
If you slot a taunt and keep 100% uptime on bosses you are, by definition, taking not a fake tanking.
I don't understando how people can't understand this. Your only expectation as a tank in normal dungeons is to have a taunt and keep bosses and major mobs taunted.
If you do that, you are tanking.
Real tanks don't just taunt, they also have tank buffs/debuffs and control mobs. Fake ones don't. I'm not gonna insult all the effort put into tanking by real tanks by pretending my dps with inner fire is the same thing.Edited by spartaxoxo on August 17, 2021 5:28PM0 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »SaintSubwayy wrote: »its quite simple...there are no "real" tanks nor healers needed for any normal Dungeon...
It doesnt matter if there is a heal or not, every class has more than enough selfheal in their kit to survive everything except a few oneshot mechanics. (Which can be dodged)
I queue regularly as a fake tank on my DD (I slot a taunt and use it to a 100% uptime on bosses and heavy hitting mops) and still I deal regularly more than 50% of the groups Damage, while having 3 other players with more tahn 1k CP
the reason ppl like me queue as fake tanks, is because there are so many "fake" DDs who litteraly would heal the boss if they could.
If you have a fake tank or healer which isnt doing their job like taunting or giving some lvl of support then just start a votekick.
If they have a premade then you wont be able to kick him, however you always have the option to leave by yourself
If you slot a taunt and keep 100% uptime on bosses you are, by definition, taking not a fake tanking.
I don't understando how people can't understand this. Your only expectation as a tank in normal dungeons is to have a taunt and keep bosses and major mobs taunted.
If you do that, you are tanking.
Real tanks don't just taunt, they also have tank buffs/debuffs and control mobs. Fake ones don't. I'm not gonna insult all the effort put into tanking by real tanks by pretending my dps with inner fire is the same thing.
And nobody should want a buff-tank in a normal dungeon. You should want a dps-tank. But regardless of what kind of tank you want, if you use group finder, you get the tank you get. Your definition of what is “real” and what is not is just your own opinion.
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »SaintSubwayy wrote: »its quite simple...there are no "real" tanks nor healers needed for any normal Dungeon...
It doesnt matter if there is a heal or not, every class has more than enough selfheal in their kit to survive everything except a few oneshot mechanics. (Which can be dodged)
I queue regularly as a fake tank on my DD (I slot a taunt and use it to a 100% uptime on bosses and heavy hitting mops) and still I deal regularly more than 50% of the groups Damage, while having 3 other players with more tahn 1k CP
the reason ppl like me queue as fake tanks, is because there are so many "fake" DDs who litteraly would heal the boss if they could.
If you have a fake tank or healer which isnt doing their job like taunting or giving some lvl of support then just start a votekick.
If they have a premade then you wont be able to kick him, however you always have the option to leave by yourself
If you slot a taunt and keep 100% uptime on bosses you are, by definition, taking not a fake tanking.
I don't understando how people can't understand this. Your only expectation as a tank in normal dungeons is to have a taunt and keep bosses and major mobs taunted.
If you do that, you are tanking.
Real tanks don't just taunt, they also have tank buffs/debuffs and control mobs. Fake ones don't. I'm not gonna insult all the effort put into tanking by real tanks by pretending my dps with inner fire is the same thing.
And nobody should want a buff-tank in a normal dungeon. You should want a dps-tank. But regardless of what kind of tank you want, if you use group finder, you get the tank you get. Your definition of what is “real” and what is not is just your own opinion.
And only my opinion matters as to what I or others call ourselves. If we want to call ourselves fake tanks because we don't at all act like a real tank and only slot taunt, that's our prerogative. The whole "only your opinion" thing really only works as a rebuttal if it's not something completely up to me and for which only my own opinion matters. And what I call myself, and others like me call ourselves is precisely that.
A lot of people prefer real tanks even on normal because it just makes runs smoother and they have high enough dps that the mobs melt too fast to care about the tank's dps anyway. So nah, I shouldn't prefer a dps posing as a tank. There's a point where it hits diminishing returns. I greatly prefer 3 dps and 1 real tank for most stuff in this game, to be quite honest. Sorry to all the healers that were just like "oof" when they read that.
Edited by spartaxoxo on August 17, 2021 8:48PM0 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »SaintSubwayy wrote: »its quite simple...there are no "real" tanks nor healers needed for any normal Dungeon...
It doesnt matter if there is a heal or not, every class has more than enough selfheal in their kit to survive everything except a few oneshot mechanics. (Which can be dodged)
I queue regularly as a fake tank on my DD (I slot a taunt and use it to a 100% uptime on bosses and heavy hitting mops) and still I deal regularly more than 50% of the groups Damage, while having 3 other players with more tahn 1k CP
the reason ppl like me queue as fake tanks, is because there are so many "fake" DDs who litteraly would heal the boss if they could.
If you have a fake tank or healer which isnt doing their job like taunting or giving some lvl of support then just start a votekick.
If they have a premade then you wont be able to kick him, however you always have the option to leave by yourself
If you slot a taunt and keep 100% uptime on bosses you are, by definition, taking not a fake tanking.
I don't understando how people can't understand this. Your only expectation as a tank in normal dungeons is to have a taunt and keep bosses and major mobs taunted.
If you do that, you are tanking.
Real tanks don't just taunt, they also have tank buffs/debuffs and control mobs. Fake ones don't. I'm not gonna insult all the effort put into tanking by real tanks by pretending my dps with inner fire is the same thing.
Don't overcomplicate. What you are describing is a GOOD tank, not a REAL tank. This is important to keep in mind.
I'm a tank. I have 5 of them. That is all I do. I know what is expected of a GOOD tank.
If you are using Dungeon Finder, that is too much to expect. You might get a good tank that does all that. Or a Bad/learning tank that doesn't.
The only requirement is that you taunt and keep taunt. That is it. If you do that, you are tanking and fulfilling your role in the dungeon finder tank context.
BAD TANK is no the same as FAKE TANK.0
