Raeyleigh wrote: »

The absurd damage is just the extension of a fundamental problem with the game and how it is handled.

This game doesnt teach you anything by itself. And because the overland, questing and normal content are so absurdly easy the players also never have to try become better or learn about the game mechanics.
And then when they want to get into veteran pve or pvp? BOOM. A brickwall of skill and setup requirements in their face, and nothing ever prepared them for it.
The actual solution was never to give new players everything for free but to present them with a modicum of challenge, progression and learning curves to prepare them for advanced content.
Unfortunatly Zo$ actually listened to the whining instead of adressing the underlying issue and is trying (mostly in vain) to lower the skill gap since many years now. Raise the floor, lower the ceiling blah blah, we all heard it.

For pvp that meant: less counterplay on many skills/mechanics, gear becoming more important to success relative to individual skill and absurdly increased damage over the years, just so that anyone playing with their feet can have an impact without learning how to actually play the game.
But it doesnt work. Nobody likes to get killed with no feasible counterplay. All they achieved was to start an arms race among the veteran/good players. Many builds you come across barely have the damage to potentially kill each other by themselves nowadays because players are forced to tank up to keep up with the ever increasing damage. But for mashing potatoes that is no problem at all.
That or they dish out absurd oneshots that no new player could hope to deal with.

If a new player entered pvp back in Imperial City patch times the gap to play with the big boys was infinitly smaller than it is today. Today as a new player that walks into pvp you come up against juiced up players that are at the same time both way tankier than you but also deal way more damage than you, and that is aside from the still existing skill and experience gap.

For PvP the actual solution to achieve a satisfactory ttk without endless stalemates or absurd oneshots is to lower the healing instead of inceasing the damage time and time again.
Instead Zo$ should lay more emphasis on mechanical gameplay and counterplay options. Otherwise known as skill.


For BG specificly a combination of getting back deathmatch queue, an actually skill based ranking system and better/more unique and relevant rewards should work well.
When 95% of all sets, titles, skins, scores for bragging rights and other shenanigans you might want come from pve it is no wonder why so much fewer people even attempt to pvp.

This, but not quite, they nerfed healing in Greymoor and it was the worst patch for me, since for survival I rely heavy on healing. I think they should do something about high recoveries that people have, since some players can go without a breather for a very long time, which makes them able to heal all the time. I totally agree with tank/dps specs though, some players for their damage shouldn't be so tanky, I played some MMOs and its the first game where a very tanky player can dish out so much damage. That's at least how it has been, I changed my main, so maybe I have low rating(not sure how it works), but in this patch I do quite well, its the best thing that I ever played, I can only compare it to pre Greymoor era, where I did exceptionally well also. The period between Greymoor and Blackwood was just awful for me.

ESO PvP as a vertical does not generate much revenue comparatively, so they won't allocate dev resources to innovate. If they don't innovate, it will never generate more revenue. It's a negative feedback loop.

Alucardo wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I totally agree with tank/dps specs though, some players for their damage shouldn't be so tanky

They are so tanky because damage stat gives stronger heals. So to be both tanky and have damage you just stack all the heals you can have in your class, 1 defense set and rest is offense.

Fundamental issues:
* damage means healing
* healing is so strong it can completely negate 1 player damage, if you have enough toughness to survive his biggest killer combo
* cross-heals make it even more ridiculous and even more visible

While I doubt they can do anything with first point (it is deep core mechanic of this game), they can at least reduce cross-heals through battle spirit to make group vs group combat less ridiculous.

Personally what I'd do is make heals scale from your max stat pool instead of damage while in PvP. For example, Vigor/Rally scales from stamina, and rapid regen max magicka.
You'll probably find that most of these builds that seem to have everything - sturdiness, healing, damage - actually have quite a low stamina pool. So to up your stamina you'd need to drop some points out of health, and/or stop running the beloved pariah. Either way, your defence is going to take a hit if you want some phat heals.

Great, if they do that, we would have a magicka
builds meta again! Just build into max magicka and enjoy the insane healing power and dish out a lot of damage at the same time!

Jeremy wrote: »

I hope the developers will take this post seriously. Because I literally see the same few people over and over and over again when I do Battlegrounds.

I agree this premade thing they have brought back in to battlegrounds is not good for a new player experience looking to ease their way into PVP.

Alucardo wrote: »

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I totally agree with tank/dps specs though, some players for their damage shouldn't be so tanky

They are so tanky because damage stat gives stronger heals. So to be both tanky and have damage you just stack all the heals you can have in your class, 1 defense set and rest is offense.

Fundamental issues:
* damage means healing
* healing is so strong it can completely negate 1 player damage, if you have enough toughness to survive his biggest killer combo
* cross-heals make it even more ridiculous and even more visible

While I doubt they can do anything with first point (it is deep core mechanic of this game), they can at least reduce cross-heals through battle spirit to make group vs group combat less ridiculous.

Personally what I'd do is make heals scale from your max stat pool instead of damage while in PvP. For example, Vigor/Rally scales from stamina, and rapid regen max magicka.
You'll probably find that most of these builds that seem to have everything - sturdiness, healing, damage - actually have quite a low stamina pool. So to up your stamina you'd need to drop some points out of health, and/or stop running the beloved pariah. Either way, your defence is going to take a hit if you want some phat heals.

Great, if they do that, we would have a magicka
builds meta again! Just build into max magicka and enjoy the insane healing power and dish out a lot of damage at the same time!

This meta was only annoying when shields were overpowered af. Fortunately they're about as strong as paper now.

I can sit under 18k shields in 2 GCD. Don't know what are you talking about.

,

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I can sit under 18k shields in 2 GCD. Don't know what are you talking about.

And I can burst through your shields and health in one burst combo. If you don't believe that you haven't faced anyone half competent

This is why I do not run shield stacking magsorc. I've been killed in 2 gcd's w/ 24k hp and 23k shield many times.

Jasus5457 wrote: »

I just get shot-down too easily to be enjoyable, even though I wear 5 impenetrable heavy with sets that give health and armor. If you're not going for meta builds you're basically gonna be trash, and the meta seems to be some stam build, spamming cc and another skill, other builds just cannot compete. When there are so many players who are absurdly tanky while being able to burst you down easily you know something is off.

This seems accurate. I've been away for over 2 years, and logged in yesterday for the first time. I was able to take my old BG stamden semi-meta build that I used back then (Hundings/Briarheart/MightyChudan-5H2M-2H/S+B) and curbstomp people on my frontbar and sustain like crazy on my backbar. I used the same rotation as 2019 and it was like nothing had changed.

Maybe it's because I've been away and I was in the lowest bracket, but holy moly I don't know why I'd play anything else.

BGs desperately needs a ranked and unranked game mode. Virtually any game with PvP has this, and for good reason. Alliance war rank means literally nothing, wheras a seasonal ranking (let's say there's 5 seasons) that you have to repeatedly re-earn would really help and also incentivize players (seasonal collectibles based on your rank *wink wink*)

Throw out the MMR (because that's a whole [snip] mess) and actually implement legit rankings based on one's aptitude for dealing damage and negating/healing damage.

And of course, KD ratio, and wins / losses.

But let's go back to those metrics involving damage, healing, and support. First and foremost, we need better match recap information. Along with damage done / healing done, and the medals we get per match, Information in regards to crowd control uptimes, buff/debuff uptime, status effect uptime, damage blocked and damage dodged would be quite useful. Also, showing each player's class in the match recap needs to be a thing.

These metrics I listed above would allow players to actually see, on paper, the contributions their team members are making so that they could endorse them. Mandatory endorsement of 3 players per match -- one player needing to be on an opposing team. Endorsements could include Healer Endorsement, Damage Endorsement, and Support Endorsement (I imagine there would be better names for this).

So how is this all calculated? Here are some abstract figures to better visualize how this sort of system would work:
You start off as Bronze. It's 2000 points to get to Silver (3500 to get from Silver to Gold, and so on so forth) Here's where those points come from:

Receiving a player endorsement grants you 50 points per.
Each match you win grants you 5 points each.
A KD of 2 gives you 3 points. A KD ratio higher than 4 gives you 10 points. A KD higher than 8 gives you 20 points.
Healing for 80k< gives you 3 points. Healing 250k< gives you 10 points. Healing 500k< gives you 20 points.

So let's say I receive 2 player endorsements, I win my match, I have a KD of 5, and healed 95k points of damage.

Separate from AP gained, I would receive 118 seasonal rank points.
Now if I didn't receive any endorsements, this would put me at a mere sum of 18 seasonal rank points. Which is the primary reason why a system like this would be effective.

1. Incentive to contribute to your team and think critically about your performance in a match
2. Player excellence being more set in stone, hence encouraging a more competitive atmosphere
3. A need to understand, appreciate and testify to the playstyles of others -- even if you lost a fight to them
4. Pretty, shiny collectibles for seasonal rank achievements uWu *_*

Ranked mode for the sweaties, unranked for those trying to just shoot the [snip] or do their dailies. Everybody wins.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk, have a magical day

[edited for profanity bypass]