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Zos, please add self nerf foods to the game to fix difficulty

Grandchamp1989
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Since I have completely given up hopes that the “I play on easy”and “I play on hard” crowds Can ever come together, in a decent compromise, for harder overland content I would suggest a Band Aid solution that doesnt harm one or the other.
And while i expect to get **** from both groups, it is either this or nothing will likely happen.

- Why do I want self nerf foods?
Answer:
I want self nerf food because it allows you to play overland at difficulty level that please as Many as possible. Even if Zos buffed all the enemies by 100% some people would still say its too easy or too hard. With 4 new foods you can regulate your own experience without affecting others.
I would suggest the self nerf food nerf: dmg, crit dmg and resistances.

No nerf food (very easy mode as we have now)
Food 1 (normal mode - nerf the above by 20%)
Food 2 (hard mode - nerf the above by 50%)
Food 3 (very hard mode - nerf the above with 70%)
Food 4 (legendary mode - nerf the above ny 90%)

-Why dont you just nerf yourself?
Answer:
I did, I played Alikr naked with only a weapon and it wasnt much of a challenge, but it was BORING.
The reason it was boring was because when you play naked you lose all sustain so combat goes from dynamic fun combat to your character gasping for air after each skill. So it is: heavy attack - skill - heavy attack skill.

I dont want to trade easy combat for boring combat.

I like ESOs dynamic combat, I want to be able to Roll Dodge, Block, do rotations and fun stuff. I just want fights to last longer and have it mean something when I save Tamriel.

Another thing is I dont want to respec all my CPs and gear and abilities everytime i wanna quest, that is a drag and Also not fun.
Self nerf food fixes all of this and gives a tailored experience.

-Final thoughts:
I know I will probably go against what some people hope for in regarda to extra loot or to halt Peoples fun for whatever reason.
This is not the point of the thread though.
The point of the thread is PURELY about fixing the difficulty problems while not ruin it for anyone else.

Self nerf food is a customized experience, with no impact on others that could fix the difficulty part of the problem with overland.

I dont expect it to be popular, but it is very realistic.
  • Saieden
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    Pretty much agree wholeheartedly. The change I would make to this is that it should be a set of usable collection items to grant and remove damage done and taken applied to end of the damage formula, and allow you to stack them for personal adjustment (damage done and taken separately). I would also like them to be unlocked through Undaunted achievements, because it's exactly the kind of thing the organization is all about, they could do with a lot more fleshing out narratively, and would be awesome in general.

    The only thing I disagree with, vehemently, is that won't be popular.
  • fiender66
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    As a mainly solo PVE player, I worked hard (like everyone) to reach my level and go grinding without pain and hassle. Difficult content abound when (if...) I need it: dragons, Summerset WB's and dolmens, Craglorn, even some not DLC bosses, and the list is far from complete. And I reject the statement that these are frustratingly easy too. This is not true, plain and simply (with my main I do solo #I dungeons at vet, only to make clear that I'm no newby).

    Now, pls consider, your OP suggestion, and any simple optional difficulty added, would only raise the longevity and resistance of mobs and bosses (less damage = more longevity, you cannot avoid this). I find this would be boring in the extreme, and it's evident (and I wonder why it's so seldom spoken of) that to make overland content ACTUALLY more entertaining what is needed are new mechs added, so we had to learn them, be engaged and go into delves like now soloing dungeons.
    Don't you realise that this would be a major programming overhaul?
    Don't you realise that it cannot be given for free?
    Don't you realise that ZOS, once given this option, if it did not meet a satisfactory purchase level, would very likely nerf the normal content somehow, as has been done even lately with popular sets?

    I'm already bored by the long, monotonous vitality of many WB's, thinking to meet them as even more long lasting ones makes me cringe in horror. Same for most of delves: they are full of mobs that is good to do swift work of. Giving them more health is only to add boredom.

  • zvavi
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    Why food? Why not a momento? Make it a momento!
  • Saieden
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    fiender66 wrote: »
    As a mainly solo PVE player, I worked hard (like everyone) to reach my level and go grinding without pain and hassle. Difficult content abound when (if...) I need it: dragons, Summerset WB's and dolmens, Craglorn, even some not DLC bosses, and the list is far from complete. And I reject the statement that these are frustratingly easy too. This is not true, plain and simply (with my main I do solo #I dungeons at vet, only to make clear that I'm no newby).

    Now, pls consider, your OP suggestion, and any simple optional difficulty added, would only raise the longevity and resistance of mobs and bosses (less damage = more longevity, you cannot avoid this). I find this would be boring in the extreme, and it's evident (and I wonder why it's so seldom spoken of) that to make overland content ACTUALLY more entertaining what is needed are new mechs added, so we had to learn them, be engaged and go into delves like now soloing dungeons.
    Don't you realise that this would be a major programming overhaul?
    Don't you realise that it cannot be given for free?
    Don't you realise that ZOS, once given this option, if it did not meet a satisfactory purchase level, would very likely nerf the normal content somehow, as has been done even lately with popular sets?

    I'm already bored by the long, monotonous vitality of many WB's, thinking to meet them as even more long lasting ones makes me cringe in horror. Same for most of delves: they are full of mobs that is good to do swift work of. Giving them more health is only to add boredom.

    While adding more mechanics would be nice, it really just won't happen. It's just far too expensive implement. The core mechanics are good and feel satisfying and many delve group dungeon bosses and mobs do have extra mechanics added, but they don't matter in the majority of overland content because there is no sense of danger. The reason I suggested having separate damage done and taken debuffs is precisely for players such as yourself: you can debuff your damage taken so that you need to do mechanics to survive, while not having to take too long to actually kill stuff.
  • Grandchamp1989
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    fiender66 wrote: »
    As a mainly solo PVE player, I worked hard (like everyone) to reach my level and go grinding without pain and hassle. Difficult content abound when (if...) I need it: dragons, Summerset WB's and dolmens, Craglorn, even some not DLC bosses, and the list is far from complete. And I reject the statement that these are frustratingly easy too. This is not true, plain and simply (with my main I do solo #I dungeons at vet, only to make clear that I'm no newby).

    Now, pls consider, your OP suggestion, and any simple optional difficulty added, would only raise the longevity and resistance of mobs and bosses (less damage = more longevity, you cannot avoid this). I find this would be boring in the extreme, and it's evident (and I wonder why it's so seldom spoken of) that to make overland content ACTUALLY more entertaining what is needed are new mechs added, so we had to learn them, be engaged and go into delves like now soloing dungeons.
    Don't you realise that this would be a major programming overhaul?
    Don't you realise that it cannot be given for free?
    Don't you realise that ZOS, once given this option, if it did not meet a satisfactory purchase level, would very likely nerf the normal content somehow, as has been done even lately with popular sets?

    I'm already bored by the long, monotonous vitality of many WB's, thinking to meet them as even more long lasting ones makes me cringe in horror. Same for most of delves: they are full of mobs that is good to do swift work of. Giving them more health is only to add boredom.

    Pretty much all bosses, even delve bosses got mechanics, but they havent been dangerous since before “One Tamriel” so nobody sees them or remember them.

    Once upon a time if you went to a High level zone severely underleveled these bosses were very Deadly.

    You wouldnt stand in their AoE and live to tell the tale, you wouldnt eat heavy attacks to the face a laugh.

    Once upon a time… it is still there.. burrowed.. and I hope we can bring it back.
    If you enjoy the difficulty as it is now that is fine too, the self nerf is completely optional.
  • Treeshka
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    I think you guys need to accept the game as it is and find the challenge in the trials, dungeons and Craglorn but not in the quests that is offered in other zones. Because they will probably not going to change the equations like they changed things in One Tamriel years ago.
  • six2fall
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    Go to church select respec remove all morphs/skills so you only have couple base skills. Then go into inventory & drop everything so you are not wearing anything & replace weapons with generic white garbage. Finally remove all your cp. Done & it only takes a minute plus bunch of gold
  • Grandchamp1989
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    Treeshka wrote: »
    I think you guys need to accept the game as it is and find the challenge in the trials, dungeons and Craglorn but not in the quests that is offered in other zones. Because they will probably not going to change the equations like they changed things in One Tamriel years ago.

    Many people buy chapters and Got the right to enjoy the story just as much as people who enjoy the current difficulty curve.
    People shouldnt be forced to be bored to tears, while their bear and Mirri saves the world for them because it is that mind numbingly easy.

    If this simple change doesnt affect you in the slightest, why ruin someone elses fun?

    I dont get it, I really dont.
  • Grandchamp1989
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    six2fall wrote: »
    Go to church select respec remove all morphs/skills so you only have couple base skills. Then go into inventory & drop everything so you are not wearing anything & replace weapons with generic white garbage. Finally remove all your cp. Done & it only takes a minute plus bunch of gold

    Would be kind to atleast have the courtesy of reading the OP before making a reply.
    It was literally explained why it doesnt work…
    Edited by Grandchamp1989 on August 3, 2021 11:33AM
  • hcbigdogdoghc
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    Self nerf food won't solve the problem.

    The real issue at hand is that 99% of overland is made and designed for level 1 noobs, including mechanics.

    Nerfing yourself won't make fights more engaging, it will make it more boring.

    What they should do is go from having 99% of overland being for beginners to maybe 85% for beginners 15% vet.

    So make certain portion of the map "group areas" similar to craglorn. Best way to do this imo is expand world bosses into group areas. For example, expand the goblin camp in blackwood and make every mob in the expanded camp veteren difficulty.

    And maybe make it so that you get double node, more exp and gold, better quality gear inside these group areas
    Edited by hcbigdogdoghc on August 3, 2021 11:35AM
  • six2fall
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    six2fall wrote: »
    Go to church select respec remove all morphs/skills so you only have couple base skills. Then go into inventory & drop everything so you are not wearing anything & replace weapons with generic white garbage. Finally remove all your cp. Done & it only takes a minute plus bunch of gold

    Perfect example of making a reply without Reading the opening post.
    It was literally explained why it doesnt work…

    It does work it just doesnt work like op wants. Not having sustain is a challenge & does make it harder. Just because it is boring or not fun is irrelevant if what ip wants is a harder challenge. Sure op doesnt want to have to respec or have boring combat but guess what no mmo has challenging overland content once you know how to play/leveled/maxed skills etc as overland content is not meant to be endgame.

    Also its best not to assume things.
  • Tatdad
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    This is absolutely and utterly ridiculous, why don’t you just not put armor on ? That will literally do the same thing for you.
  • fiender66
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    @Grandchamp1989 and @Saieden,

    Yep, I respect your opinions, but I largely prefer to have some new content (DLC or Chapter) once or twice in a year than going to revisit enemies with mechs that I already know and that have become only more long to dispose of. I simply cannot see any fun in this.
    True, when I go to dungeons the feeling is the same: learnt mechs, long fights. That's why I only go there if I need farming something.
    I roam Overland with two kinds of toons: very strong dd's that do not bother after fights and only enjoy the story (so many quests, and often pleasurable ones. I'm around since 2015 and still have to uncover them all!), the scenery and (not often) the surprising encounters. Otherwise, grind builds meant to mow up trash and earn gold and XP: training traits all over, AoE skills. Quite useless against almost any WB, but wonder makers in Vile Manse and the like and against Ra Netu and zombies.

    This is my personal solution, OFC not the best for everyone, but which one can be?

    As an aside, Grand, the bear, Mirri (and twilight) can help, but for sure they do not save anything in e.g. Kardala ruins, especially if you bother to resurrect those 3 kings. One is self healing, the others 2 have different mechs. Have you ever tried it?
  • starlizard70ub17_ESO
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    "I would suggest the self nerf food nerf: dmg, crit dmg and resistances.

    No nerf food (very easy mode as we have now)
    Food 1 (normal mode - nerf the above by 20%)
    Food 2 (hard mode - nerf the above by 50%)
    Food 3 (very hard mode - nerf the above with 70%)
    Food 4 (legendary mode - nerf the above ny 90%)"

    All the OP is doing here is creating mind numbing bullet sponges. They're also hurting any players that might be grouped with them, because the OP is gimping themselves to the point of being useless.
    "We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."
  • Grandchamp1989
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    "I would suggest the self nerf food nerf: dmg, crit dmg and resistances.

    No nerf food (very easy mode as we have now)
    Food 1 (normal mode - nerf the above by 20%)
    Food 2 (hard mode - nerf the above by 50%)
    Food 3 (very hard mode - nerf the above with 70%)
    Food 4 (legendary mode - nerf the above ny 90%)"

    All the OP is doing here is creating mind numbing bullet sponges. They're also hurting any players that might be grouped with them, because the OP is gimping themselves to the point of being useless.

    Why would anyone take self nerf food in group content?
    That argument makes no sense.
  • Fennwitty
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    I would certainly give anything a try for a few days.
    PC NA
  • zvavi
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    "I would suggest the self nerf food nerf: dmg, crit dmg and resistances.

    No nerf food (very easy mode as we have now)
    Food 1 (normal mode - nerf the above by 20%)
    Food 2 (hard mode - nerf the above by 50%)
    Food 3 (very hard mode - nerf the above with 70%)
    Food 4 (legendary mode - nerf the above ny 90%)"

    All the OP is doing here is creating mind numbing bullet sponges. They're also hurting any players that might be grouped with them, because the OP is gimping themselves to the point of being useless.

    Why would anyone take self nerf food in group content?
    That argument makes no sense.

    Naturally those food (or momentos! Make it momentos!!!) Wouldn't affect group content.
  • Grandchamp1989
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    zvavi wrote: »
    "I would suggest the self nerf food nerf: dmg, crit dmg and resistances.

    No nerf food (very easy mode as we have now)
    Food 1 (normal mode - nerf the above by 20%)
    Food 2 (hard mode - nerf the above by 50%)
    Food 3 (very hard mode - nerf the above with 70%)
    Food 4 (legendary mode - nerf the above ny 90%)"

    All the OP is doing here is creating mind numbing bullet sponges. They're also hurting any players that might be grouped with them, because the OP is gimping themselves to the point of being useless.

    Why would anyone take self nerf food in group content?
    That argument makes no sense.

    Naturally those food (or momentos! Make it momentos!!!) Wouldn't affect group content.

    You’d have to be exceptionally lost, bordering on dim to nerf yourself, and que up to group content.
    [snip]

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 3, 2021 1:38PM
  • the1andonlyskwex
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    zvavi wrote: »
    "I would suggest the self nerf food nerf: dmg, crit dmg and resistances.

    No nerf food (very easy mode as we have now)
    Food 1 (normal mode - nerf the above by 20%)
    Food 2 (hard mode - nerf the above by 50%)
    Food 3 (very hard mode - nerf the above with 70%)
    Food 4 (legendary mode - nerf the above ny 90%)"

    All the OP is doing here is creating mind numbing bullet sponges. They're also hurting any players that might be grouped with them, because the OP is gimping themselves to the point of being useless.

    Why would anyone take self nerf food in group content?
    That argument makes no sense.

    Naturally those food (or momentos! Make it momentos!!!) Wouldn't affect group content.

    Where do you draw the line though? Almost all content can be played in a group. I think solo arenas might be the only enforced solo content. Even story instances are usually shared with others (which is super annoying when some random other person advances the story before you hear an NPC's dialogue).
  • Saieden
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    fiender66 wrote: »
    @Grandchamp1989 and @Saieden,

    Yep, I respect your opinions, but I largely prefer to have some new content (DLC or Chapter) once or twice in a year than going to revisit enemies with mechs that I already know and that have become only more long to dispose of. I simply cannot see any fun in this.
    True, when I go to dungeons the feeling is the same: learnt mechs, long fights. That's why I only go there if I need farming something.
    I roam Overland with two kinds of toons: very strong dd's that do not bother after fights and only enjoy the story (so many quests, and often pleasurable ones. I'm around since 2015 and still have to uncover them all!), the scenery and (not often) the surprising encounters. Otherwise, grind builds meant to mow up trash and earn gold and XP: training traits all over, AoE skills. Quite useless against almost any WB, but wonder makers in Vile Manse and the like and against Ra Netu and zombies.

    This is my personal solution, OFC not the best for everyone, but which one can be?

    As an aside, Grand, the bear, Mirri (and twilight) can help, but for sure they do not save anything in e.g. Kardala ruins, especially if you bother to resurrect those 3 kings. One is self healing, the others 2 have different mechs. Have you ever tried it?

    I don't think you read my suggestion correctly. It's not for people going back to content, though that is an option, it's about doing the stories and actually feeling like the hero of said story and not a one-shot-god.

    I only do the main story lines with my SO first because it's the reason we started playing, the only ones we've completed fully are all 5 AD, Morrowind, Summerset, and we're currently on Clockwork City. She is super casual (not into vet, and not really a fan of dungeons in general except for the story) and still finds it too easy, and I've cleared most DLC vet dungeons (pug'd), all Crag HMs, vSS, vMA and vVH. *Spoiler* at the end of Summerset was a complete joke of a boss for an otherwise awesome build up, even with me holding back by pretty much just doing one dot, light attacks and using my spammable occasionally. Now consider that we have at least 15 more zone stories to go through and as much as we do in fact enjoy the story for what it is, the disconnect between threats the characters in the story face and the complete ease at which they are overcome completely ruins the immersion of the world, most of all in the climatic moments that are supposed to be the most memorable.

    My suggestion is also incredibly easy to implement. Visual assets aside, it wouldn't take more than a week for a good dev or two to implement:

    - Reuse aegis/slayer named buff code as a negative check (since we only want overland content, which is all non-dungeon, trial and arena monsters. And disable in PVP, obviously).
    - Add outer co-efficient to damage formulae. It should completely scale everything linearly, so that you keep all the nuances of your build in tact.
    - Create mementos to add and remove stacks of each debuff, in increments/stages.
    - Zero xp or loot buffs attached. It's just not the point and will cause problems (of a wide variety).
  • Saieden
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    zvavi wrote: »
    "I would suggest the self nerf food nerf: dmg, crit dmg and resistances.

    No nerf food (very easy mode as we have now)
    Food 1 (normal mode - nerf the above by 20%)
    Food 2 (hard mode - nerf the above by 50%)
    Food 3 (very hard mode - nerf the above with 70%)
    Food 4 (legendary mode - nerf the above ny 90%)"

    All the OP is doing here is creating mind numbing bullet sponges. They're also hurting any players that might be grouped with them, because the OP is gimping themselves to the point of being useless.

    Why would anyone take self nerf food in group content?
    That argument makes no sense.

    Naturally those food (or momentos! Make it momentos!!!) Wouldn't affect group content.

    Where do you draw the line though? Almost all content can be played in a group. I think solo arenas might be the only enforced solo content. Even story instances are usually shared with others (which is super annoying when some random other person advances the story before you hear an NPC's dialogue).

    You draw the line at "Overland", which is everything except Dungeons, Arenas and Trials.
  • bmnoble
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    So long as the food/memento/setting whatever it ends up being disables it's self during group content.

    Just in the event that someone forgot about it when they go to run a dungeon/arena/trial etc... don't want to see them here complaining they got kicked for low damage or not being able to survive.

    Also you would not just be nerfing yourself in terms of combat but would likely be losing out on loot, a lot of bosses only drop loot to the 12 or so players that do the most damage to them. Then again if there are that many players around the nerf food won't do much to increase the challenge in the first place.
  • Gundug
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    I could see these foods being somewhat interesting if they also included progressively higher XP boosts superior to existing XP food bonuses to go along with the increasingly higher stat penalties. Otherwise, being a mid 1900 CP getting beat up by overland enemies while a level 20 nearby is two shotting them seems embarrassing and pointless.
  • lolo_01b16_ESO
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    Yeah, would be nice to have an easy to apply self nerf food (or even better, a memento).
    However, I think the values affected should be damage done, damage taken, healing taken and shield size. It should be quite easy to code that, as they could simple take the original thrassian stranglers, swap it to reduce your damage done instead of increasing your spell damage and replace the proc condition with a reliable way to activate it.

    Additionally, I think such a memento should work in premade groups. There are actually a lot of nice boss mechanics that you only see when you have relatively low dps and some that only matter if your survivability is much lower.

    And I don't want ANY benefits for using this self nerf (apart from maybe some achivements to keep track of what I've done).
  • fiender66
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    Saieden wrote: »
    fiender66 wrote: »
    @Grandchamp1989 and @Saieden,

    ...

    I don't think you read my suggestion correctly. It's not for people going back to content, though that is an option, it's about doing the stories and actually feeling like the hero of said story and not a one-shot-god.

    Then I fear I'm missing something. Do you really think that any vanilla new player may feel it necessary to be self-nerfed?
    Please be so kind to elaborate the sentence cited above, for this is how I understood it, and I may be wrong.

    But If I'm wright, then I utterly disagree. Create a new toon, give it nothing and go to Stonefalls and see how long it survives (the killing bugs of the islands may be enough, LOL). This is what may happen to any new player, especially now that the initial tutorial has become so ineffective.

    As I said, I often roam Overland one way or another, and I see countless low levels struggling with the delve content. OFC many do not struggle at all, and they often populate the spots where one can lot a scry bonus. These are clearly backed by an inheritance of CPs, that they do not give up, figure self nerfing.

    PS: The story of yourself and your SO is touching and endearing, but, allow me, it proves nothing. If you have cleared vMA not to say all the rest, no wonder you find a stroll any overland content, and whoever is backed by you is super helped, even if u throw only some hit once in a while. Still, I fail to see how lengthening any boss' life can make the story more interesting, and not only more boring. Maybe it's me, but once I've learned the mechs (2 runs are usually enough), any vet dungeon becomes devoid of fun for me, and useful only for farming.
    Edited by fiender66 on August 3, 2021 1:45PM
  • emilyhyoyeon
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    For me this way of fixing difficulty by nerfing damage and resistances wouldn't make the game feel more difficult if the mechanics are still pretty much non existant. I've already tried a similar thing by only wearing green quality and sustain sets. I'm not two shotting quest bosses but I'm still basically just standing there spamming with nothing other than my in-head rp engaging me.

    And as already mentioned, making more intense mechanics is so big of a project it would never happen. If we got this suggested food idea, I'd still use it, especially so I wouldn't have to change armor and stuff so that convenience would be nice, but man I really wish we could optionally get at least quest bosses with at least world boss equivalent mechanics.
    IGN @ emilypumpkin
    Tullanisse Starborne altmer spellsword battlemage & scholar of the ayleids
    Qa'Rirra khajiit assassin & dancer
    Seliwequen Narilata altmer necromancer & debaucher
  • kojou
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    I think the "nerf food" would have to do a few things in order to make content more challenging.

    It would need to:

    - Remove all self healing except health potions (in a group setting you will still need a healer, so maybe have a healer option that removes all damage but allows healing)
    - Reduce damage by 80%
    - Remove all damage resistances except for what is given by armor and armor passive
    - Reduce health by 50%

    Basically like playing a Stamina Nightblade at launch...

    I personally wouldn't bother with it unless it had a pretty big positive benefit though. At ~1900 CP I don't really care about XP, and I have plenty of gold, so it would have to be better drops of set pieces, companion gear, motifs and such. Even then I would probably put it on my Nightblade and just sneak to things that dropped what I wanted.

    I'm sure it would be popular for streamers that wanted to flex and show off their skills, but after a few weeks it would probably become tiresome for everyone else. I would be ok with it being added to the game though.

    Playing since beta...
  • SickleCider
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    What if spoiled food lowered your stats?

    There. I saved the world.
    ✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨
  • fiender66
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    Uhm, this thing of self nerfing does not look much fun to me (ehi, I play to have fun above all, is it a fault of mine?), but having Wabbajack as an actual weapon could be.

    Think: a staff that does random things. Remember? People hit may disappear, change into something else or even become more aggressive and dangerous. I'm sure ZOS devs would be able to add other, fantastic features :)
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    I think the idea of toggle-able difficulty is great.

    For example, my personal taste is that I don't mind at all that overland trash packs are trivially easy. But quests feel kind of pointless if the quest boss is a pushover too.
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