Zeni tries - how do YOU feel?

silver1surfer69 · July 2021

- Im a pvp player. I personally do not enjoy pve so much, i do it only if i need pvp gear.
- I do play only no-cp pvp. For me no-cp pvp is more direct and more pure, for me this is the real pvp.
- Because of the lag i do almost only IC for some years now.

Thats the first point i want to express. [snip] because of the lag especially in cyrodiil.
That is the case for many years now. I do actively try to do something against it with many threads on the forum, some going on years now with thousands of views and comments.

-> Because of the lag im really disappointed with ZOS. All these many players over the years and so many new players eg with stadia - and all the money that comes with these players
and the money was not used to improve the lag situation.

Secondly i feel like Zeni does not care about the veterans who have been loyal for all these years - [snip]. Every patch feels to me like for
the newer players and more or less against the vetereans. Im playing ESO for more then 6 years now with well over 10k hours in this game. Like 1 y ago cp 1500 was really something, now cp 1500 is like nothing and seems usual.

-> The same with no proc. I feel no proc is great for the players that have not so much experience - but for the players that spend thousands over hours honing and perfecting their skill and build - not for them.

So - atm i have only no-cp IC left and now Zeni takes that away from us also. i feel like i have not much left in this game!

-> -> I want at least 1 additional no-cp IC campaign with proc!

I feel that is not much that i ask for. In every like sports club or business company a veterean with so many years and hours like us is worshiped and cared for and tried to be held in
there - not with ESO - a veteran like us - like already explained - [snip]

- - How do YOU feel? - -

Pls express yourselfes here, so maybe something is done before these changes go online in the main game.

[edited for baiting/quit thread]

MirandaSharp · July 2021

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

I feel no proc is great for the players that have not so much experience

I think it's the other way round. Proc sets are great for those who are inexperienced...

Stx · July 2021

I feel like the only thing I agreed with out of your whole post is that the poor server performance in Cyrodiil is very disappointing.

Kalle_Demos · July 2021

I'm primarily a PVE player and I feel the same way. It's as if zos is trying to chase us off on purpose but I've been a fan of the Elder Scrolls series a long time and a single era of poor choices won't change that. I'll stop giving them my money in the mean time but I'm still a fan of this world.

Shantu · July 2021

As a business, I would suspect ZOS primarily cares about game functionality that generates a revenue stream through the crown store and subscriptions. But the vast majority of players who spend money here could care less about PVP or any kind of combat in general. That's why years of dysfunctional combat systems have very little impact on the financial trajectory of the game, and devs are free to treat anything combat related as more of a sandbox to play in without any real financial consequence to questionable design decisions.

ESO is a business product designed to generate a profit. If you look at the things with that purpose clearly in mind, what they do, or don't do, makes much more sense. I don't think they make decisions that are designed to force people to quit. But on the other hand, I doubt if they are overly concerned if they do.

Ythotha · July 2021

Shantu wrote: »

As a business, I would suspect ZOS primarily cares about game functionality that generates a revenue stream through the crown store and subscriptions. But the vast majority of players who spend money here could care less about PVP or any kind of combat in general. That's why years of dysfunctional combat systems have very little impact on the financial trajectory of the game, and devs are free to treat anything combat related as more of a sandbox to play in without any real financial consequence to questionable design decisions.

ESO is a business product designed to generate a profit. If you look at the things with that purpose clearly in mind, what they do, or don't do, makes much more sense. I don't think they make decisions that are designed to force people to quit. But on the other hand, I doubt if they are overly concerned if they do.

Yes

amir412 · July 2021

At this point I don't even care about the lag, but the population is what bothers me.
Seems like it's going down and fast.

relentless_turnip · July 2021

@silver1surfer69 completely agree with you there mate.

They must have made this decision with only the NA server in mind. Ravenwatch is the most popular campaign on pc EU and most people won't want to play no proc IMO. The only reason it was so popular was because of the 6+ months of the proc meta we had endured. It offered respite for a short period of time and then it became very dull. If they really want to do this they ought to make new campaigns.

silver1surfer69 · July 2021

MirandaSharp wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

I feel no proc is great for the players that have not so much experience

I think it's the other way round. Proc sets are great for those who are inexperienced...

I can see and understand that point. It depends on how you play imo. My personal experience from 6 months no proc is that it is much harder to get everything running (proc) and time everything to get the max synergy out of proc. If you just dont care when is what proccing and dont utilize its full potential, then yes, but if you try to achieve this its much harder, thats just my experience, it brings just many more variables that need attention than no proc.

silver1surfer69 · July 2021

Shantu wrote: »

As a business, I would suspect ZOS primarily cares about game functionality that generates a revenue stream through the crown store and subscriptions. But the vast majority of players who spend money here could care less about PVP or any kind of combat in general. That's why years of dysfunctional combat systems have very little impact on the financial trajectory of the game, and devs are free to treat anything combat related as more of a sandbox to play in without any real financial consequence to questionable design decisions.

ESO is a business product designed to generate a profit. If you look at the things with that purpose clearly in mind, what they do, or don't do, makes much more sense. I don't think they make decisions that are designed to force people to quit. But on the other hand, I doubt if they are overly concerned if they do.

Thx for that post. Im very well aware of this. I tend to see it as follows. The gys who decide and have the ressources in the back - they act kust as you described. I believe though, the ppl that work there eg combat dev team, they are not very highly paid i imagine and are hopelesly overscheduled with all the releases and stuff - but i think they care about their work, and that is ESO, but they dont get the ressources to being able to do this really good (becuae of the reasons you explained).

silver1surfer69 · July 2021

relentless_turnip wrote: »

@silver1surfer69 completely agree with you there mate.

They must have made this decision with only the NA server in mind. Ravenwatch is the most popular campaign on pc EU and most people won't want to play no proc IMO. The only reason it was so popular was because of the 6+ months of the proc meta we had endured. It offered respite for a short period of time and then it became very dull. If they really want to do this they ought to make new campaigns.

Thx mate!

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2021

If all you do is PVP, I don't know how anyobody in that boat is still playing this game. The lag has been game breaking for years now in Cyro, and there is really no evidence it's going to change.

Unfortunately, it's a numbers game at this point. I really have no idea what pop caps are in Cyro, but lets say they are higher than I think and it's like 1000 players per faction (i dont think its anywhere near that). You are talking about 3k people at any given time in the main campaign, far less during off hours. That is barely enough revenue to keep the lights on, even if most are whales (which they arent), let alone to improve anything.

It is a shame, because a well running ESO is the best PVP of any game I have ever played other than a handful of the best shooters (totally different genre). I just don't see it getting better at this point, unless Bill Gates is secretly a stam warden or something.

fullheartcontainer · July 2021

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I really have no idea what pop caps are in Cyro, but lets say they are higher than I think and it's like 1000 players per faction

it's literally like 100-150 people per faction nowadays. They've downgraded player cap so many times. The worst part is sometimes you log in and there's just no one on at all and the lag is still there.

Amottica · July 2021

MirandaSharp wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

I feel no proc is great for the players that have not so much experience

I think it's the other way round. Proc sets are great for those who are inexperienced...

I think you reworded what they said. Not so much experience and inexperience is about the same.

I wonder since OP is a veteran player, which means they are experienced, why they are concerned about a no-proc campaign?

Regardless, I see OP is not very happy with the game and respect that. We all form our opinions and have our breaking points. Since OP is into real and pure PvP and is not so happy here I would suggest trying out a game with PvP at its core instead of a PvE game with some PvP. It is something you may enjoy.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2021

fullheartcontainer wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I really have no idea what pop caps are in Cyro, but lets say they are higher than I think and it's like 1000 players per faction

it's literally like 100-150 people per faction nowadays. They've downgraded player cap so many times. The worst part is sometimes you log in and there's just no one on at all and the lag is still there.

For sure. I don’t think the caps are anywhere near the example I used. Just further enforces my point. If like 500 people are playing at prime time in PvP, that is just not enough revenue for zos to do anything about it.

James-Wayne · July 2021

I've been playing everyday since closed beta days and your unhappy with the lag... come and play from Western Australia and then you can complain about lag

Alucardo · July 2021

ZOS don't even do the bare minimum for pvp sadly. That's all I have to say on the matter, otherwise it's just beating a horse that has been dead for years.

The_Lex · July 2021

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Unfortunately, it's a numbers game at this point. I really have no idea what pop caps are in Cyro, but lets say they are higher than I think and it's like 1000 players per faction (i dont think its anywhere near that). You are talking about 3k people at any given time in the main campaign, far less during off hours. That is barely enough revenue to keep the lights on, even if most are whales (which they arent), let alone to improve anything.

This is all on ZOS. Their inattention to PvP in general (content updates, etc) and their inability to properly diagnose and fix a single performance issue is what caused the decline in population and, therefore, decline in revenue. This is all on them.

And what do we get in return for sticking it out? Empty, broken promises (The Year of Performance) followed by callous silence.

JayKwellen · July 2021

The_Lex wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Unfortunately, it's a numbers game at this point. I really have no idea what pop caps are in Cyro, but lets say they are higher than I think and it's like 1000 players per faction (i dont think its anywhere near that). You are talking about 3k people at any given time in the main campaign, far less during off hours. That is barely enough revenue to keep the lights on, even if most are whales (which they arent), let alone to improve anything.

This is all on ZOS. Their inattention to PvP in general (content updates, etc) and their inability to properly diagnose and fix a single performance issue is what caused the decline in population and, therefore, decline in revenue. This is all on them.

And what do we get in return for sticking it out? Empty, broken promises (The Year of Performance) followed by callous silence.

Exactly. Nothing has been seriously invested into PvP in quite some time. No new content, no updates, no performance improvements (performance actually got far worse after the "year of performance"), nothing.

PvP has declined because ZOS did nothing to keep it healthy. If someone had a pet dog that they deliberately chose to stop feeding, and the dog inevitably died of starvation, should the dog be blamed for its own death? Of course not, the blame would fall squarely on the negligent owners.

I've been playing ESO since 2019, much shorter than many but long enough to observe trends. If we objectively assess the evidence what do we find? Since I've started playing I've personally observed:

-Cyrodiil performance has continually been declining, with the biggest drop in my experience coming when block was changed.

-Cyrodiil has seen one minor change, the addition of lancers. That's it.

-BGs have had no new content at all.

-IC has seen the addition of monster sets, but otherwise has had no PvP changes at all.

Two years and thus far we have seen the addition of one new siege weapon.

Now, ZOS has done a lot of thing for performance. They've live tested changes, adjusted CP and procs and numerous different calculations. All of those things have failed, and performance is objectively worse now than it's ever been. So while they may have tried, they haven't accomplished any of their goals, assuming the goal was to improve performance.

This isn't bashing ZOS either, literally just putting the historical record into text.

So over the past years cyrodiil has received no content but a siege weapon, while BGs and IC have received no PvP content at all.

No one should be surprised to learn that any revenue earned from PvPers would be declining, because ZOS hasn't given them anything to spend money on. We're literally all so starved for content that even a few minor scraps of content and improving the lag to a state of "really bad, but at least the game functions" would probably leave us overjoyed.

That's really all most of us PvPers need at this point. Just a scrap. Even if its the tiniest bit, it would be enough to keep us going. Kinda like that dog I mentioned. And if in the end we all die of starvation no one should be surprised, nor should they look farther than the hand that didn't feed us to understand why.

Andre_Noir · July 2021

Shantu wrote: »

But the vast majority of players who spend money here could care less about PVP or any kind of combat in general.

Dunno why this legend from dummy-lovers is so vital. The highest concentration of shop outfits you can find in the game is in Cyro. On top of that MOST of DLC-dungeon sets and mystics are viable in PVP only

JayKwellen wrote: »

-Cyrodiil has seen one minor change, the addition of lancers. That's it.

Sithis, Zoal, Charr, Malacath, Wild Hunt, 2h and destro Vateshran, almost entirely pvp red CP, base impen, proc scaling ? It's all been done for pvp

zvavi · July 2021

It really amuses me that the original title got changed to "zeni tries". You can interpret it as you wish.

SirLeeMinion · July 2021

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Secondly i feel like Zeni does not care about the veterans who have been loyal for all these years - [snip]. Every patch feels to me like for the newer players and more or less against the vetereans.

- - How do YOU feel? - -

I feel like they must have looked at some metric that said most players the vast majority of the money they'll ever spend in the first year of the game. That would explain why they don't care about veterans. You and I aren't going to make them care. We adapt or play something else. I've done both, I play more Guild Wars 2, and I now rarely help anyone. No more making training armor, leading groups, donating to guilds, submitting helpful bug reports, etc... I have no interest in being toxic, but I no longer make any kind of sacrifice to help the environment of a game maker that de-values their vets. At this point, I really only come back because I like the artwork and the way the characters move in the world. ...and I now spend most of my PvE time on characters that I level to 45 and delete - at least then it feels like they are getting stronger as they progress.

Vevvev · July 2021

JayKwellen wrote: »

-BGs have had no new content at all.

I guess it counts, but when Murkmire came out they introduced that portal map!!! And... wait... how long ago was that? Oh right, after Summerset...