WillyOneBlood wrote: »But the whole point of Battlegrounds is to play the objectives as a team. It's a different type of PvP. They should go to Cyrodiil if they just want deathmatch.
WillyOneBlood wrote: »But the whole point of Battlegrounds is to play the objectives as a team. It's a different type of PvP. They should go to Cyrodiil if they just want deathmatch.
Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »WillyOneBlood wrote: »But the whole point of Battlegrounds is to play the objectives as a team. It's a different type of PvP. They should go to Cyrodiil if they just want deathmatch.
80% of the time, Cyrodil is a horse riding simulator.
IC is dead when there are no events.
BG is the only arena style of environment for fast paced action.
The BG community has been asking to split DM and objective queues for so long, but nothing so far.
alberichtano wrote: »Maybe they should just remove deathmatches all together. Make pure hack'n'slash "unprofitable" in battlegrounds. Maybe more people would go back to IC then.
alberichtano wrote: »Maybe they should just remove deathmatches all together. Make pure hack'n'slash "unprofitable" in battlegrounds. Maybe more people would go back to IC then.
WillyOneBlood wrote: »But the whole point of Battlegrounds is to play the objectives as a team. It's a different type of PvP. They should go to Cyrodiil if they just want deathmatch.
WillyOneBlood wrote: »But the whole point of Battlegrounds is to play the objectives as a team. It's a different type of PvP. They should go to Cyrodiil if they just want deathmatch.
There used to be a queue for deathmatch and there was never this much whining on this topic……. I wonder what changed
WillyOneBlood wrote: »But the whole point of Battlegrounds is to play the objectives as a team. It's a different type of PvP. They should go to Cyrodiil if they just want deathmatch.
There used to be a queue for deathmatch and there was never this much whining on this topic……. I wonder what changed
They first removed the ability to join as a group because solo players were torn apart by organized 4man teams. But then people complained that they can't play BGs with their friends, so they made soloQ and groupQ, removing the option to select queue type (deathmatch, flags, capture).
Since deathmatch is the most popular (we had dozens of votes on the forums and it was prevalent if you just random queue) and people are tired to play modes they don't like, they treat all modes as a deathmatch because why not.
WillyOneBlood wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »Maybe they should just remove deathmatches all together. Make pure hack'n'slash "unprofitable" in battlegrounds. Maybe more people would go back to IC then.
100% agree. It would probably lower the player count in bg's but those players that stay mint actually play the way it was intended.
exeeter702 wrote: »WillyOneBlood wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »Maybe they should just remove deathmatches all together. Make pure hack'n'slash "unprofitable" in battlegrounds. Maybe more people would go back to IC then.
100% agree. It would probably lower the player count in bg's but those players that stay mint actually play the way it was intended.
Or, you know, give people that actually like to pvp without any of the superfluous nonsense an option to queue directly for deathmatch.
Then you will quickly see just how interested people are in playing your capture the flag mode.
Just dont come back here complaining about 30+ minute queues.
We have already done this song and dance before. Be thankful you have actual heads populating your Bg matches in the first place.
WillyOneBlood wrote: »You can still PvP while doing objectives. Capture the relic (most frustrating mode) can teach you you how to be more defensive by defending your relic. Chaos Ball can teach you how to incexeeter702 wrote: »WillyOneBlood wrote: »alberichtano wrote: »Maybe they should just remove deathmatches all together. Make pure hack'n'slash "unprofitable" in battlegrounds. Maybe more people would go back to IC then.
100% agree. It would probably lower the player count in bg's but those players that stay mint actually play the way it was intended.
Or, you know, give people that actually like to pvp without any of the superfluous nonsense an option to queue directly for deathmatch.
Then you will quickly see just how interested people are in playing your capture the flag mode.
Just dont come back here complaining about 30+ minute queues.
We have already done this song and dance before. Be thankful you have actual heads populating your Bg matches in the first place.
You're missing the point entirely. Some people like to play flag games and ball games, hence why they qué for Battlegrounds. If you only want to play deathmatch go to Cyrodill and stop wasting your teams time by ignoring bg's objectives. You're the typical selfish player.
Simple, the maps are not designed in a way to encourage engagement in objective modes.
I have - and probably many others from FPS background too, played plenty of CTFs and attack/defense where fighting is far more intense than DM.
Put two sides, either 4vs4 on a small map with single route/direction or 16vs16 on a bigger one with at most 2-3 routes. It wouldn't matter what strategy you use - If you want to go out or reach the objective, you have to fight for it and push forward inch by inch as a team, with respawn timer set like 10s max.
There are no 1vs1 fights but almost always XvsX, which reduce the unkillable situations greatly. Also there can be columns or spots for LOS, ranged / snipers, room for stealth to sneak through. What you cannot have, unlike the current BG maps, is to go somewhere that nobody can encounter you or vice versa.
Of course the server performance would need to be improved a lot for this to happen, or disable lagging sources: certain proc sets, ground effects, limit CC usage, etc.
Simple, the maps are not designed in a way to encourage engagement in objective modes.
I have - and probably many others from FPS background too, played plenty of CTFs and attack/defense where fighting is far more intense than DM.
Put two sides, either 4vs4 on a small map with single route/direction or 16vs16 on a bigger one with at most 2-3 routes. It wouldn't matter what strategy you use - If you want to go out or reach the objective, you have to fight for it and push forward inch by inch as a team, with respawn timer set like 10s max.
There are no 1vs1 fights but almost always XvsX, which reduce the unkillable situations greatly. Also there can be columns or spots for LOS, ranged / snipers, room for stealth to sneak through. What you cannot have, unlike the current BG maps, is to go somewhere that nobody can encounter you or vice versa.
Of course the server performance would need to be improved a lot for this to happen, or disable lagging sources: certain proc sets, ground effects, limit CC usage, etc.
WillyOneBlood wrote: »Then don't play bg's and go to Cyrodill
exeeter702 wrote: »Creat well designed maps that are built specifically for a particular objective based game mode, wherein the objective needs to be acknowledged and through the layout of the map, pvp encounters are garunteed and cant be avoided and lastly, said objective mandates that teams split up. Do this with a clean 8v8 format and you eliminate any criticisms of "8v8 would just be a zerg fest" and "objective modes dont encourage pvp". Add to this a meaningful reward structure that creates an actual incentive to win and you had a winning formula for bgs in ESO.
WillyOneBlood wrote: »Why do 9/10 players never do the objectives in bg's. Nobody defends the relic. Nobody gets the ball. I don't understand it.
WillyOneBlood wrote: »Why do 9/10 players never do the objectives in bg's. Nobody defends the relic. Nobody gets the ball. I don't understand it.
1. People want to play PVP
2. Deathmatch queue didn't exist in the game until they just now changed it so it's DM only in battlegrounds
3. People don't like horse riding in cyrodiil. Why should I go riding open world cyrodiil for 5 minutes to get to a fight that's already over, or search around for a fight when the map is dead? The only time cyrodiil is super action packed is when the hammer drops or someone just gets emperor and when that happens, it's only asking for lag because everyone is stacked on 1 keep.
4. There's very limited options for small scale pvp, sometimes I don't want to fight a zerg while taking a resource in cyrodiil and want to fight a small amount of people. Sure IC exists, but most people in IC are there to farm telvar, not many are there for small scale fights, which only leaves battlegrounds. (I don't count dueling because there's no actual dueling instance, there's no point waiting in towns to duel people since 90% of people in towns are there to do PVE stuff, not PVP.)
5. I don't want to have to siege keeps in order to fight people. If I don't siege in cyrodiil, chances are the enemy is just gonna sit inside their keep firing meatbags at me, with no incentive to come fight back
Need I say more?
WillyOneBlood wrote: »WillyOneBlood wrote: »Why do 9/10 players never do the objectives in bg's. Nobody defends the relic. Nobody gets the ball. I don't understand it.
1. People want to play PVP
2. Deathmatch queue didn't exist in the game until they just now changed it so it's DM only in battlegrounds
3. People don't like horse riding in cyrodiil. Why should I go riding open world cyrodiil for 5 minutes to get to a fight that's already over, or search around for a fight when the map is dead? The only time cyrodiil is super action packed is when the hammer drops or someone just gets emperor and when that happens, it's only asking for lag because everyone is stacked on 1 keep.
4. There's very limited options for small scale pvp, sometimes I don't want to fight a zerg while taking a resource in cyrodiil and want to fight a small amount of people. Sure IC exists, but most people in IC are there to farm telvar, not many are there for small scale fights, which only leaves battlegrounds. (I don't count dueling because there's no actual dueling instance, there's no point waiting in towns to duel people since 90% of people in towns are there to do PVE stuff, not PVP.)
5. I don't want to have to siege keeps in order to fight people. If I don't siege in cyrodiil, chances are the enemy is just gonna sit inside their keep firing meatbags at me, with no incentive to come fight back
Need I say more?
If you want pure PvP go to Cyrodill instead of queing for a team based objectives mode. DM did exist but they took it out because of this exact reason. [snip]
WillyOneBlood wrote: »WillyOneBlood wrote: »Why do 9/10 players never do the objectives in bg's. Nobody defends the relic. Nobody gets the ball. I don't understand it.
1. People want to play PVP
2. Deathmatch queue didn't exist in the game until they just now changed it so it's DM only in battlegrounds
3. People don't like horse riding in cyrodiil. Why should I go riding open world cyrodiil for 5 minutes to get to a fight that's already over, or search around for a fight when the map is dead? The only time cyrodiil is super action packed is when the hammer drops or someone just gets emperor and when that happens, it's only asking for lag because everyone is stacked on 1 keep.
4. There's very limited options for small scale pvp, sometimes I don't want to fight a zerg while taking a resource in cyrodiil and want to fight a small amount of people. Sure IC exists, but most people in IC are there to farm telvar, not many are there for small scale fights, which only leaves battlegrounds. (I don't count dueling because there's no actual dueling instance, there's no point waiting in towns to duel people since 90% of people in towns are there to do PVE stuff, not PVP.)
5. I don't want to have to siege keeps in order to fight people. If I don't siege in cyrodiil, chances are the enemy is just gonna sit inside their keep firing meatbags at me, with no incentive to come fight back
Need I say more?
If you want pure PvP go to Cyrodill instead of queing for a team based objectives mode. DM did exist but they took it out because of this exact reason. [snip]
They didn't take out DM. They took out all specific game mode queues.
Big difference.
The fact is, when there were specific game mode queues, DM was the most often recurring mode in the random queue. Why? Because more people queued directly for DM than the other game modes.
When they removed the individual queues, it had a negative, non player initiated, interaction with DM mode frequency. It went from DM being the most popular mode and the most frequent because players actually wanted to play it, to it being artificially pushed down due to math. When there are 5 game types, and 4 of the 5 are objective, it artificially favors the more unpopular game modes just due to the volume of modes to choose from. If DM were weighted better in the random queue to account for the 1 game mode being the only one of it's type against 4 objective modes, then it wouldn't be a problem. But with a 20% chance for the majority of players who actually play BGs for more than just their daily reward, 20% is almost nothing.
The way the queues were in the beginning clearly showed that DM was the most popular mode. And any kind of hand wringing you have to do to justify any arguments that DM is not liked is just that, hand wringing.
Also, BGs are PVP modes for smaller scale fights. Comparing to Cyrodil is just ridiculous and really shows a lack of understanding of what the purpose of BGs actually is. It is not a game mode for players to grind XP/AP without participating in actual PVP, it is a game mode meant to push teams into conflict far quicker than Cyrodil can ever do, on a much more even starting point.
WillyOneBlood wrote: »WillyOneBlood wrote: »WillyOneBlood wrote: »Why do 9/10 players never do the objectives in bg's. Nobody defends the relic. Nobody gets the ball. I don't understand it.
1. People want to play PVP
2. Deathmatch queue didn't exist in the game until they just now changed it so it's DM only in battlegrounds
3. People don't like horse riding in cyrodiil. Why should I go riding open world cyrodiil for 5 minutes to get to a fight that's already over, or search around for a fight when the map is dead? The only time cyrodiil is super action packed is when the hammer drops or someone just gets emperor and when that happens, it's only asking for lag because everyone is stacked on 1 keep.
4. There's very limited options for small scale pvp, sometimes I don't want to fight a zerg while taking a resource in cyrodiil and want to fight a small amount of people. Sure IC exists, but most people in IC are there to farm telvar, not many are there for small scale fights, which only leaves battlegrounds. (I don't count dueling because there's no actual dueling instance, there's no point waiting in towns to duel people since 90% of people in towns are there to do PVE stuff, not PVP.)
5. I don't want to have to siege keeps in order to fight people. If I don't siege in cyrodiil, chances are the enemy is just gonna sit inside their keep firing meatbags at me, with no incentive to come fight back
Need I say more?
If you want pure PvP go to Cyrodill instead of queing for a team based objectives mode. DM did exist but they took it out because of this exact reason. [snip]
They didn't take out DM. They took out all specific game mode queues.
Big difference.
The fact is, when there were specific game mode queues, DM was the most often recurring mode in the random queue. Why? Because more people queued directly for DM than the other game modes.
When they removed the individual queues, it had a negative, non player initiated, interaction with DM mode frequency. It went from DM being the most popular mode and the most frequent because players actually wanted to play it, to it being artificially pushed down due to math. When there are 5 game types, and 4 of the 5 are objective, it artificially favors the more unpopular game modes just due to the volume of modes to choose from. If DM were weighted better in the random queue to account for the 1 game mode being the only one of it's type against 4 objective modes, then it wouldn't be a problem. But with a 20% chance for the majority of players who actually play BGs for more than just their daily reward, 20% is almost nothing.
The way the queues were in the beginning clearly showed that DM was the most popular mode. And any kind of hand wringing you have to do to justify any arguments that DM is not liked is just that, hand wringing.
Also, BGs are PVP modes for smaller scale fights. Comparing to Cyrodil is just ridiculous and really shows a lack of understanding of what the purpose of BGs actually is. It is not a game mode for players to grind XP/AP without participating in actual PVP, it is a game mode meant to push teams into conflict far quicker than Cyrodil can ever do, on a much more even starting point.
You just said they didn't take out DM but then literally in the sentence you said the took out all specific game modes. So either DM isn't a specific game mode or I'm missing something???? I stopped reading after that because you're comment started with a contradiction in its first two sentences.
WillyOneBlood wrote: »WillyOneBlood wrote: »WillyOneBlood wrote: »Why do 9/10 players never do the objectives in bg's. Nobody defends the relic. Nobody gets the ball. I don't understand it.
1. People want to play PVP
2. Deathmatch queue didn't exist in the game until they just now changed it so it's DM only in battlegrounds
3. People don't like horse riding in cyrodiil. Why should I go riding open world cyrodiil for 5 minutes to get to a fight that's already over, or search around for a fight when the map is dead? The only time cyrodiil is super action packed is when the hammer drops or someone just gets emperor and when that happens, it's only asking for lag because everyone is stacked on 1 keep.
4. There's very limited options for small scale pvp, sometimes I don't want to fight a zerg while taking a resource in cyrodiil and want to fight a small amount of people. Sure IC exists, but most people in IC are there to farm telvar, not many are there for small scale fights, which only leaves battlegrounds. (I don't count dueling because there's no actual dueling instance, there's no point waiting in towns to duel people since 90% of people in towns are there to do PVE stuff, not PVP.)
5. I don't want to have to siege keeps in order to fight people. If I don't siege in cyrodiil, chances are the enemy is just gonna sit inside their keep firing meatbags at me, with no incentive to come fight back
Need I say more?
If you want pure PvP go to Cyrodill instead of queing for a team based objectives mode. DM did exist but they took it out because of this exact reason. [snip]
They didn't take out DM. They took out all specific game mode queues.
Big difference.
The fact is, when there were specific game mode queues, DM was the most often recurring mode in the random queue. Why? Because more people queued directly for DM than the other game modes.
When they removed the individual queues, it had a negative, non player initiated, interaction with DM mode frequency. It went from DM being the most popular mode and the most frequent because players actually wanted to play it, to it being artificially pushed down due to math. When there are 5 game types, and 4 of the 5 are objective, it artificially favors the more unpopular game modes just due to the volume of modes to choose from. If DM were weighted better in the random queue to account for the 1 game mode being the only one of it's type against 4 objective modes, then it wouldn't be a problem. But with a 20% chance for the majority of players who actually play BGs for more than just their daily reward, 20% is almost nothing.
The way the queues were in the beginning clearly showed that DM was the most popular mode. And any kind of hand wringing you have to do to justify any arguments that DM is not liked is just that, hand wringing.
Also, BGs are PVP modes for smaller scale fights. Comparing to Cyrodil is just ridiculous and really shows a lack of understanding of what the purpose of BGs actually is. It is not a game mode for players to grind XP/AP without participating in actual PVP, it is a game mode meant to push teams into conflict far quicker than Cyrodil can ever do, on a much more even starting point.
You just said they didn't take out DM but then literally in the sentence you said the took out all specific game modes. So either DM isn't a specific game mode or I'm missing something???? I stopped reading after that because you're comment started with a contradiction in its first two sentences.
DM was still in the game...
They didn't remove any game modes when they removed the individual queues. Not DM, not Chaosball, not domination. They just removed the ability to queue specifically for them. DM is still in the game, just mathematically disadvantaged.
[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]