So is the Master's Ice Staff now going to be a thing?

FrancisCrawford · July 2021

In the PTS patch notes, Frost Reach now does good damage and also inflicts guaranteed single-target Chilled/Brittle. That seems like a skill that could be equipped both by healers and a few DDs. And it's meant to be recast at least once every 4 seconds.

So is the Master's Ice Staff now going to be popular?

https://eso-sets.com/set/destructive-impact

YandereGirlfriend · July 2021

Yes, I look forward to using it in both PvE and PvP (or at least I would if Ravenwatch wasn't undergoing a hostile takeover by the small handfull of players who still believe in the No-Proc format).

Supertonicbaker · July 2021

Hmm…. I can see some fun ways to use this with the change. Why not?

ESO_Nightingale · July 2021

I feel like it may not be as good in pve. But in pvp it should be fairly decent.

Alucardo · July 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I feel like it may not be as good in pve. But in pvp it should be fairly decent.

VERY decent. Based on patch notes it applies major main, decreasing the damage a target does to you by 10%. For a fairly high damaging skill with a cheap cost, that's huge. Throw revealing flare on your bar for another passive 10% reduction.

zvavi · July 2021

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I feel like it may not be as good in pve. But in pvp it should be fairly decent.

VERY decent. Based on patch notes it applies major main, decreasing the damage a target does to you by 10%. For a fairly high damaging skill with a cheap cost, that's huge. Throw revealing flare on your bar for another passive 10% reduction.

Only the taunt morph got major maim

FrancisCrawford · July 2021

Cast Frost Reach every 4 seconds with this staff, and you're:

Doing decent damage on those gcds.
Providing 100% single-target Brittle uptime.
Giving yourself an extra 600 spell power.

Sounds pretty good, at least for builds that don't otherwise hate using ice staffs. (Healers? Magden DDs??? Solo magdens?)

BXR_Lonestar · July 2021

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Cast Frost Reach every 4 seconds with this staff, and you're:
Doing decent damage on those gcds.

Providing 100% single-target Brittle uptime.

Giving yourself an extra 600 spell power.

Sounds pretty good, at least for builds that don't otherwise hate using ice staffs. (Healers? Magden DDs??? Solo magdens?)

It has to be front-barred though, so I don't see myself using it as a healer personally. I like using my Master resto staff front bar to recast Illustrious Springs every 4-5 seconds to give the group a little bit of extra sustain (along with Symphony, orbs, and potentially my second 5 piece set).

waterfairy · July 2021

if they buff the damage of frost staff then they'd better debuff the tanking...can't have 1 thing to rule them all and making a staff a tank tool was always a dumb decision

ESO_Nightingale · July 2021

Alucardo wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I feel like it may not be as good in pve. But in pvp it should be fairly decent.

VERY decent. Based on patch notes it applies major main, decreasing the damage a target does to you by 10%. For a fairly high damaging skill with a cheap cost, that's huge. Throw revealing flare on your bar for another passive 10% reduction.

frost clench got a cost reduction and major maim

frost reach got a slight cost increase, 80% more damage

and both got guarenteed chilled application.

WrathOfInnos · July 2021

I think this sounds fun, but I’m not sure what I’d give up for it. The 2pc Master’s bonus of 600 Spell Damage results in around 7.5% DPS with 100% uptime. With Perfected it increases to about 8.5-9% depending on time spent front bar.

The most obvious target would be replacing Harpooner’s Wading Kilt and 1pc Slimecraw. However, this combination with maintaining 10 stacks gives about 9-10% DPS. Seems like a bad idea to drop the Kilt unless you plan on taking enough direct damage to have low uptimes.

So the other option is to replace a 5pc set. I think you could justify using this over the 4-5pc bonuses on Siroria, especially since either option occupies the front bar staff slot. The 4-5pc bonuses on Perf Bahsei are:
- 3% Spell Crit
- 129 Spell Damage
- Damage scaling up to 15%
The final line being approx 7% DPS if you average ~40% Magicka. It becomes obvious that Perfected Bahsei is going to beat the Perfect Master Staff.

Interestingly, the Master Staff does easily beat the 4 + 5 piece bonuses on crit sets like Mother’s Sorrow or Medusa, especially if you were using them only on front bar. This seems like the thing to drop for an Ice build with Frost Reach.

So then we have a build with:
Maelstrom Back Bar
Perf Master Front Bar
5X Perf Bahsei
1X Kilt
1X Slimecraw
3X ???

I just can’t figure out what to fill those 3 pieces with. Cannot use 3pc False Gods because the Minor Slayer is redundant. 3pc Imperial Wrath gives good crit, but doesn’t apply to DoTs (Winter’s Revenge, Mystic Orb, Wall, Fetcher, etc.). 3pc Willpower and Grace of the Ancients have been weak since the 20% bonus to Max Magicka was removed. 3pc trainee has good stat density, but is more for survivability than damage. Can’t do a Mythic + Monster Set because both of those already exist in the build.

The only real option I see is to add 2 more 3% crit bonuses. This could be something like 3pc Mad Tinkerer. Or maybe 2pc Assassin’s Guile + 1 Grundwulf for hybrid crit. Technically this completes the build, but it doesn’t feel satisfying or clean. It’s entirely possible this is worse than 3 Imperial Wrath (if at least 40% of your damage is ranged and direct).

Anyone have any other ideas for PVE Brittle Magden meta builds using Master Frost?

jaws343 · July 2021

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think this sounds fun, but I’m not sure what I’d give up for it. The 2pc Master’s bonus of 600 Spell Damage results in around 7.5% DPS with 100% uptime. With Perfected it increases to about 8.5-9% depending on time spent front bar.

The most obvious target would be replacing Harpooner’s Wading Kilt and 1pc Slimecraw. However, this combination with maintaining 10 stacks gives about 9-10% DPS. Seems like a bad idea to drop the Kilt unless you plan on taking enough direct damage to have low uptimes.

So the other option is to replace a 5pc set. I think you could justify using this over the 4-5pc bonuses on Siroria, especially since either option occupies the front bar staff slot. The 4-5pc bonuses on Perf Bahsei are:
- 3% Spell Crit
- 129 Spell Damage
- Damage scaling up to 15%
The final line being approx 7% DPS if you average ~40% Magicka. It becomes obvious that Perfected Bahsei is going to beat the Perfect Master Staff.

Interestingly, the Master Staff does easily beat the 4 + 5 piece bonuses on crit sets like Mother’s Sorrow or Medusa, especially if you were using them only on front bar. This seems like the thing to drop for an Ice build with Frost Reach.

So then we have a build with:
Maelstrom Back Bar
Perf Master Front Bar
5X Perf Bahsei
1X Kilt
1X Slimecraw
3X ???

I just can’t figure out what to fill those 3 pieces with. Cannot use 3pc False Gods because the Minor Slayer is redundant. 3pc Imperial Wrath gives good crit, but doesn’t apply to DoTs (Winter’s Revenge, Mystic Orb, Wall, Fetcher, etc.). 3pc Willpower and Grace of the Ancients have been weak since the 20% bonus to Max Magicka was removed. 3pc trainee has good stat density, but is more for survivability than damage. Can’t do a Mythic + Monster Set because both of those already exist in the build.

The only real option I see is to add 2 more 3% crit bonuses. This could be something like 3pc Mad Tinkerer. Or maybe 2pc Assassin’s Guile + 1 Grundwulf for hybrid crit. Technically this completes the build, but it doesn’t feel satisfying or clean. It’s entirely possible this is worse than 3 Imperial Wrath (if at least 40% of your damage is ranged and direct).

Anyone have any other ideas for PVE Brittle Magden meta builds using Master Frost?

You could probably run 3 piece Ancient Grace, at least get some max mag and a little bit more damage.

Joy_Division · July 2021

15 meters is such an odd range; neither melee nor range.

WrathOfInnos · July 2021

@jaws343 Yeah that’s an interesting suggestion, I had forgotten Ancient Grace existed. Just edited my post to mention it. Unfortunately even that large amount of Max Magicka ends up giving less damage than 2 standard crit bonuses.

The 1096 Mag is about 1.1% DPS and the 2406 is 2.4% for a total of 3.5%. Each 3% crit bonus is over 2% DPS for 4-4.5% total.

Another comparison would be Ancient Grace vs Willpower, and I think Willpower gives more damage (a little over 4% DPS, looking like ~4.3% on my current build). Now I’m wondering if Willpower competes with double crit or Imperial Wrath, all 3 seem close on paper.

I’m not sure if Imperial Wrath buffs Deep Fissure or the bear. If it does then it should beat any other option. If it only buffs one or the other then it will be a very close call.

Ancient Grace could be nice for sustain, which is difficult on Magden, and seems to be within ~1% DPS of other options.

I guess another option would be to drop Bahsei so that 3pc FGD can be used. That 3 piece is worth 6% DPS, far better than any 3pc option above. In that case the 5pc set chosen would need to be one without Minor Slayer. Medusa’s bonuses would work well, but with both staves occupied that would mean 2 heavy armor, 1 medium and 4 light, which kills penetration and sustain. Frostbite may be an option, likely outperforming Sorrow with a Frost spammable build. It would be easier to manage than the Bahsei resource minigame, but even with great Chill/Brittle uptimes I believe it’s still a lower DPS ceiling.

AuraStorm43 · July 2021

Seems like a weird idea, but least in pve could work on tanks keeping up brittle duty

SimonThesis · July 2021

In pvp the lightning masters staff is still slightly stronger on a warden dps unfortunately because the clench is aoe damage and the lightning passive buffs shalks and proxy detonation. Even with guaranteed chilled switching to the masters frost on a pure pvp dps is still a slight dps loss. They really need to make shalks frost damage and buff frost staff passives. Still this is a step in the right direction!

Agenericname · July 2021

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@jaws343 Yeah that’s an interesting suggestion, I had forgotten Ancient Grace existed. Just edited my post to mention it. Unfortunately even that large amount of Max Magicka ends up giving less damage than 2 standard crit bonuses.

The 1096 Mag is about 1.1% DPS and the 2406 is 2.4% for a total of 3.5%. Each 3% crit bonus is over 2% DPS for 4-4.5% total.

Another comparison would be Ancient Grace vs Willpower, and I think Willpower gives more damage (a little over 4% DPS, looking like ~4.3% on my current build). Now I’m wondering if Willpower competes with double crit or Imperial Wrath, all 3 seem close on paper.

I’m not sure if Imperial Wrath buffs Deep Fissure or the bear. If it does then it should beat any other option. If it only buffs one or the other then it will be a very close call.

Ancient Grace could be nice for sustain, which is difficult on Magden, and seems to be within ~1% DPS of other options.

I guess another option would be to drop Bahsei so that 3pc FGD can be used. That 3 piece is worth 6% DPS, far better than any 3pc option above. In that case the 5pc set chosen would need to be one without Minor Slayer. Medusa’s bonuses would work well, but with both staves occupied that would mean 2 heavy armor, 1 medium and 4 light, which kills penetration and sustain. Frostbite may be an option, likely outperforming Sorrow with a Frost spammable build. It would be easier to manage than the Bahsei resource minigame, but even with great Chill/Brittle uptimes I believe it’s still a lower DPS ceiling.

Would the kilt, 1x slimecraw, the other 5 body pieces Bahsei, then 3x Medusa jewelry and the master staff work?

WrathOfInnos · July 2021

Agenericname wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@jaws343 Yeah that’s an interesting suggestion, I had forgotten Ancient Grace existed. Just edited my post to mention it. Unfortunately even that large amount of Max Magicka ends up giving less damage than 2 standard crit bonuses.

The 1096 Mag is about 1.1% DPS and the 2406 is 2.4% for a total of 3.5%. Each 3% crit bonus is over 2% DPS for 4-4.5% total.

Another comparison would be Ancient Grace vs Willpower, and I think Willpower gives more damage (a little over 4% DPS, looking like ~4.3% on my current build). Now I’m wondering if Willpower competes with double crit or Imperial Wrath, all 3 seem close on paper.

I’m not sure if Imperial Wrath buffs Deep Fissure or the bear. If it does then it should beat any other option. If it only buffs one or the other then it will be a very close call.

Ancient Grace could be nice for sustain, which is difficult on Magden, and seems to be within ~1% DPS of other options.

I guess another option would be to drop Bahsei so that 3pc FGD can be used. That 3 piece is worth 6% DPS, far better than any 3pc option above. In that case the 5pc set chosen would need to be one without Minor Slayer. Medusa’s bonuses would work well, but with both staves occupied that would mean 2 heavy armor, 1 medium and 4 light, which kills penetration and sustain. Frostbite may be an option, likely outperforming Sorrow with a Frost spammable build. It would be easier to manage than the Bahsei resource minigame, but even with great Chill/Brittle uptimes I believe it’s still a lower DPS ceiling.

Would the kilt, 1x slimecraw, the other 5 body pieces Bahsei, then 3x Medusa jewelry and the master staff work?

@Agenericname Yep that works, and assuming the 3 pieces are jewelry it ends up giving the same 6% Spell Crit as 3 piece Mad Tinkerer. Probably a more common set that people would already have too, just doesn’t drop in Gold quality like Tinkerer does.

Also very similar to the 1 Grundwulf + 2 Assassin’s Guile I mentioned, just that also gives 6% crit to any stamina skills you may be using (like Barbed Trap). Any of these options might be meta? I still need to check which skills exactly are buffed by Imperial Wrath.