@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Nser wrote: »

They just need to make it to 50%

So there is many builds out there where you can kill someone with crazy burst dmg and have multiple attacks land at the same time giving players the ability to kill within 3-4 second window.

And you think that deserves only a 6% dmg reduction?

I agree the game needs to have less overall moves (like Necro) that can self survive like crazy, but I am also willing to admit dmg has got so out of control that people run that build for a reason. It needs to be balanced on both ends.

So I do think 60% is needed for sure but they need to look at specific classes tankiness and tune them down some and maybe lower it to like 55% on test.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Nser wrote: »

They just need to make it to 50%

So there is many builds out there where you can kill someone with crazy burst dmg and have multiple attacks land at the same time giving players the ability to kill within 3-4 second window.

And you think that deserves only a 6% dmg reduction?

I agree the game needs to have less overall moves (like Necro) that can self survive like crazy, but I am also willing to admit dmg has got so out of control that people run that build for a reason. It needs to be balanced on both ends.

So I do think 60% is needed for sure but they need to look at specific classes tankiness and tune them down some and maybe lower it to like 55% on test.

44% to 50% is significantly more than a 6% mitigation increase - battlespirit works multiplicatively, so it's more like a 10-12% increase.

Frankly, any extra mitigation is excessive for experienced players and will definitely result in a lot of very slow fights with low kill numbers (e.g. premade bgs) - which the public will then complain about instead.

In addition, 44 to 60 is a moronically large mitigation increase (around 28.5% as discussed above). If weaker pvpers expect that to make their life easier, they are in for a sudden shock. Us experienced players will be borderline impossible for pugs to kill as we will have way too much time to think, move, heal etc.

TLDR: I strongly believe any mitigation increase is a poor decision, but IF zos go ahead with it, 44 to 50 is an absolute maximum.

[snip]

People should read the patch notes in detail before hopping on the "bash the devs" train. Someone already posted this up above, so here it is again, with bolding for emphasis:

Increased the damage taken reduction from the Battle Spirit passive to 55%, up from 44%.

In efforts to expand the window of TTK, we're upping the effective base Player Damage Reduction from 50% to 60% (remember that players naturally take 10% less damage now, which is why Battle Spirit was reduced to 44%, to preserve the original 50%!) to make up for the added stats all characters have, especially in no-CP environments.

I'm going to spell it out again, because it is actually kinda confusing.

Current Battle Spirit damage reduction tooltip: 44%
Total damage reduction in PvP: 49.6% (everyone takes 10% less damage everywhere thanks to the CP 2.0 patch, and 56% of 90% is 50.4%, so 49.6% less damage)

PTS Battle Spirit damage reduction tooltip: 55%
Total damage reduction in PvP: 59.5% (45% of 90% is 40.5%, so 59.5% less damage)

So the numbers add up to what the devs have described. You will take 20% less damage in PvP on PTS compared to now. People can critique the change if they want, but to attack the devs as incompetent for not understanding the math of the game is pretty ironic. Sorry if I sound a bit salty :~P, but I do legitimately hope this is helpful.

Edit: clarified the numbies a bit

[edited to remove quote]

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

[snip]

People should read the patch notes in detail before hopping on the "bash the devs" train. Someone already posted this up above, so here it is again, with bolding for emphasis:

Increased the damage taken reduction from the Battle Spirit passive to 55%, up from 44%.

In efforts to expand the window of TTK, we're upping the effective base Player Damage Reduction from 50% to 60% (remember that players naturally take 10% less damage now, which is why Battle Spirit was reduced to 44%, to preserve the original 50%!) to make up for the added stats all characters have, especially in no-CP environments.

I'm going to spell it out again, because it is actually kinda confusing.

Current Battle Spirit damage reduction tooltip: 44%
Total damage reduction in PvP: 49.6% (everyone takes 10% less damage everywhere thanks to the CP 2.0 patch, and 56% of 90% is 50.4%, so 49.6% less damage)

PTS Battle Spirit damage reduction tooltip: 55%
Total damage reduction in PvP: 59.5% (45% of 90% is 40.5%, so 59.5% less damage)

So the numbers add up to what the devs have described. You will take 20% less damage in PvP on PTS compared to now. People can critique the change if they want, but to attack the devs as incompetent for not understanding the math of the game is pretty ironic. Sorry if I sound a bit salty :~P, but I do legitimately hope this is helpful.

Edit: clarified the numbies a bit

People are questioning the devs precisely because it is super confusing and it doesn't help that they are still referencing old mechanics that do not apply any more. It doesn;t help me to understand their reasoning saying that I technically take 50% less damage because of a previous change that altered the mechanics such that it's actually 44%, but we'll keep saying 50% because confusion rather than clarity is preferable.

If combat mechanics change such that they no longer apply and have been replaced by something else, then they should no longer be referenced.

Also, a large part of that "bashing" comes from people who disagree with the proposed measure in the first place. That the original announcement did not make any reference to the current 44% [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Joy_Division wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

[snip]

People should read the patch notes in detail before hopping on the "bash the devs" train. Someone already posted this up above, so here it is again, with bolding for emphasis:

Increased the damage taken reduction from the Battle Spirit passive to 55%, up from 44%.

In efforts to expand the window of TTK, we're upping the effective base Player Damage Reduction from 50% to 60% (remember that players naturally take 10% less damage now, which is why Battle Spirit was reduced to 44%, to preserve the original 50%!) to make up for the added stats all characters have, especially in no-CP environments.

I'm going to spell it out again, because it is actually kinda confusing.

Current Battle Spirit damage reduction tooltip: 44%
Total damage reduction in PvP: 49.6% (everyone takes 10% less damage everywhere thanks to the CP 2.0 patch, and 56% of 90% is 50.4%, so 49.6% less damage)

PTS Battle Spirit damage reduction tooltip: 55%
Total damage reduction in PvP: 59.5% (45% of 90% is 40.5%, so 59.5% less damage)

So the numbers add up to what the devs have described. You will take 20% less damage in PvP on PTS compared to now. People can critique the change if they want, but to attack the devs as incompetent for not understanding the math of the game is pretty ironic. Sorry if I sound a bit salty :~P, but I do legitimately hope this is helpful.

Edit: clarified the numbies a bit

People are questioning the devs precisely because it is super confusing and it doesn't help that they are still referencing old mechanics that do not apply any more. It doesn;t help me to understand their reasoning saying that I technically take 50% less damage because of a previous change that altered the mechanics such that it's actually 44%, but we'll keep saying 50% because confusion rather than clarity is preferable.

If combat mechanics change such that they no longer apply and have been replaced by something else, then they should no longer be referenced.

Also, a large part of that "bashing" comes from people who disagree with the proposed measure in the first place. That the original announcement did not make any reference to the current 44% [snip]

Yeah, when I say "bashing", I don't mean the many people explaining why they disagree with the changes. That's fine, of course. It's about how people do it, especially when they've made no good faith effort to understand, and leap to insults.

Here's the original statement from the Update 31 Combat Preview:

Our main adjustment in Update 31 will be to Battle Spirit and focusing on the damage taken portion, increasing it so the base character takes 60% less overall damage, rather than 50%.

I took that literally, as in instead of taking 50% less damage in PvP than in PvE, we'll take 60% less on PTS. Obviously, Battle Spirit is 44%, so they're not talking about the Battle Spirit tooltip (at least, that was obvious to me). You don't need to know about damage modifiers to assume people know what they're talking about (unless proven otherwise).

If someone didn't get that, there's a big difference between "I'm not sure what this means, how does this add up?" and "Do they really think Battle Spirit is 50% on live? What idiots." Like in the following comments from this very thread (let alone the original Update 31 Combat Preview thread, which is full of insults):

[snip]

That's the "bashing" I was referring to. Not people saying that it's a bad change.

[edited to remove quotes]