The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of May 13:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 14, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 14, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Time to kill (TTK) player is fine?
Parasaurolophus
✭✭✭✭✭
✭
✭
From Update 31 Combat Preview
But many players disagree with this decision. We're afraid the tank meta will get even stronger. The balance now feels better than in previous patches, largely due to the fact that tank builds seem to be significantly weakened in pvp. Playing on a new class in pvp for me - manaplar, I feel how I can defend myself and inflict damage, and everything has some kind of result. Even the nb stamina feels better, although it is still quite weak and can only be dangerous for new players. I would also like to say that the reduction in damage in Battle Spirit should also be accompanied by a decrease in the incoming heal.
Edited by Parasaurolophus on July 10, 2021 12:39PM Let’s start with something we’ve seen a lot of discussion on: Time to Kill (TTK) in Player versus Player environments. Compared to previous updates, the amount of damage is higher across the board than it was previously, but simultaneously, defensive power is lower too. This is mainly caused by two things: the balance standards that Champion Point 2.0 was held to in Update 29 where we introduced more choices between either offensive or defensive options, as well boosting up stats on fresh characters with the introduction of base Weapon and Spell Damage, and the base Maximum Resource adjustments from Update 30. Between these two, many builds are making more choices in improving their ability to deal or take damage while experiencing a sharper operational loss of the other. As many player builds lean towards dealing damage in PvP environments, this creates a situation where TTK lowers. While we’ve identified specifics, such as base stat adjustments, we wanted to stay focused on where the problem was felt, which was exclusively related to PvP. Our main adjustment in Update 31 will be to Battle Spirit and focusing on the damage taken portion, increasing it so the base character takes 60% less overall damage, rather than 50%. Aside from this and a few more specific, smaller adjustments, we’re still monitoring many of the moving parts (such as proc set scaling) and discussing measures we can take in future updates that won’t adversely affect parts of the game where problems aren’t as severe.
But many players disagree with this decision. We're afraid the tank meta will get even stronger. The balance now feels better than in previous patches, largely due to the fact that tank builds seem to be significantly weakened in pvp. Playing on a new class in pvp for me - manaplar, I feel how I can defend myself and inflict damage, and everything has some kind of result. Even the nb stamina feels better, although it is still quite weak and can only be dangerous for new players. I would also like to say that the reduction in damage in Battle Spirit should also be accompanied by a decrease in the incoming heal.
PC/EU
Time to kill (TTK) player is fine? 86 votes
Time to kill player is fine now
62%
54 votes
Time to kill player should be increased
37%
32 votes
0
-
5cript✭✭✭✭Time to kill player should be increasedI voted from a bg perspective. Its either blocking tanks that spam heal under a flag or mutual oneshot destruction.
I fear that the prior will become even more annoying.
(And there are ultra high speed boys that you cannot hit because the game cancels all your abilities because of their speed)Edited by 5cript on July 10, 2021 12:47PM1 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Time to kill sqish targets should be increased but also time to kill tanky players and ball groups should be decreased. We have two extremes at the moment. Bring them a bit closer together rather than making tank builds and groups harder to kill17 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Time to kill player is fine nowBeing outnumbered is a greater death sentence than ever before, but that said 1 v 1 I can kill most players and feel ttk is in a good spot. If they are going to adjust it, it probably needs to adjusting 50% currently it is at 44%. 60% is a huge buff to tankiness as they probably they forget they adjusted battle spirit with the cp change. Besides isn't a 10% reduction to damage received actually a 20% nerf to damage done?Edited by relentless_turnip on July 10, 2021 12:58PM5 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Time to kill player is fine nowA 20% damage reduction in PVP is insane.
This is going to result in is everyone being very tanky. And fights being drawn out, often ending in stalemates.
Moreover, only classes with the highest burst potential are going to be effective player killers in PVP now. Necro, sorc, stamwarden, stamblade should all be fine. But all the other classes, which can still manage to put out a good burst now, will not be able to do so with this insane amount of reduced damage. I'm really not looking forward to this.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”7 -
milllaurie✭✭✭✭Time to kill player is fine nowAn easy way to prolong fights is increaae the duration of HoTs.
Make vigor 5s like it was.
Hell, make it more expensive.
But people die when they are not healing. That's why newcommers to pvp die in 2 hits.
Do not change damage to mitigation ratio, please. It is perfect right now.
The build diversity is so wide now. I know, nightblades hit super hard, stamsorcs can one-shot etc but aside being annoying, are they overpowered? No. If they were, everyone was running it like it was with 7th+fury a few years ago. Like it was with sloads and warden birds.
I enjoy current balance a lot.2 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Damage this high is fine so long as there's sufficient counterplay, in my opinion.
I thought perhaps they could adjust the Damage Shield penalty in Battlespirit. Not perfectly equitable, but many damage shield skills are underused. Defensive Posture + Asylum S&B + a Mag heal/shield/cleanse is probably an underappreciated tool in this meta. I thought maybe just promoting some more things like this would be a good route to keep ultra-high damage builds viable but not insurmountable.
Anyhow, I agree it's fine to cut damage by 20% - if they cut healing proportionally. We could use some more time to react if we really want "skilled PvP" - but I'd rather have a one-shot meta than a healing meta like we had late 2019 / early 2020.
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Time to kill player is fine nowI honestly don't know. I am not managing to kill exp stamcros in open field (so they can't kite around obstacles) during acuity+balorgh proc. Knowing that my damage is going down even more is not very fun.2 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Time to kill player is fine nowjust need 1-2 more universal counterplay options for both stam and mag specs and things will be solid
also I find it intresting that there's no option for decreasing the TTK in your poll...0 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think we should change systems so that players who want to play glass canon can survive longer...read up and make balanced builds....'double damage builds = consequences'1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think we should change systems so that players who want to play glass canon can survive longer '
This is a necessary result of the judgment that Heavy Armor is immoral and must be prohibited from PvP because it is called Heavy. All specs must have the same level of mitigation, only this is moral. Heavy armor is only supposed to be for the 1 in 10,000 players who wants to play a pure Health Tank. That's what they tell me.
In my view, Melee players should be in mostly Heavy, or they'll have a very narrow chance of survival if they don't hit and run.
Edited by Urzigurumash on July 10, 2021 3:52PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Time to kill player is fine nowThe TTK "problem" is mostly due because the amount of power players have at the disposable far exceeds what was ever intended (the game launched with soft caps). So inexperienced players explode whereas an experienced Necro player is considered "unkillable" by the same inexperienced players.
What do you foresee is going to happen giving all organized group players something better than permanent and free (and stacking) major protection? IIRC, Battlespirit is now 44% (Google seems to agree), not 50%. And now it's going to 60%!
3 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Time to kill player is fine nowI haven't played much large-scale PvP this patch, so I can't speak too much on that, but it's been SUCH a relief to see the tank meta fade. Why the devs seem to think we need to head back in that direction is beyond me.5 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Time to kill player is fine nowCurious, were there even widespread complaints about low time to kill?
Or is this just another extreme, bizarre pendulum swing that the combat team evidently thinks is the way to manage balance.Edited by MurderMostFoul on July 10, 2021 5:15PM“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
MentalxHammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Time to kill player is fine nowPlease do not increase battle spirit to 60% mitigation. The slightly faster ttk this patch actually makes the game feel much more fun and exciting. ESO has some very powerful defensive mechanics, ie. block/dodge roll among other things. Skilled players are still able to survive massive amounts of damage despite the faster ttk.
Even with the higher damage this patch I often get in 10+ minute duels with other players on a full damage spec. One of the reasons I quit ESO before was because fighting just felt monotonous and no one ever died, this patch is the most fun I’ve ever had in ESO and if battle spirit is increased to 60% mitigation I guarantee the game will feel much more boring.
Fast ttk is fine. It’s enjoyable and frankly good for an action combat MMO like ESO.Edited by MentalxHammer on July 10, 2021 5:35PM2 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Time to kill player is fine nowttk in eso is way too fast.
But is it?
I primarily play three damage sets on my builds in BGs where I don't even have the added survivability CP provides, yet I'm able to survive extremely well. The combination of movement, line of sight, healing, situation awareness, and timely usage of mitigation tools like block and roll dodge will keep me alive for a very long time even when I'm under pressure. Sure, I'll get blown up from time to time if I get way out of position, or I'm surprised by getting outnumbered, but rarely am I just blown up and feel like there was nothing I could do despite not having made any mistakes.
And even on these high damage builds, some tanky players can just eat my damage, and when a healer is involved, it becomes that much harder to secure kills.
Frankly, this feels solely like a blunt attempt to raise the floor. High skill players can survive very well, but low skill players struggle to stay alive. Rather than motivating players to get better, ZOS is throwing a monkey wrench in what is currently decent balancing, to give low skill players and artificial sense of improvement.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”3 -
FluffWit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We're afraid the tank meta will get even stronger.
The tank meta ended with CP2.0
Now we're in the burst meta and it really isnt very fun. Whoever gets their combo off first tends to win.
Something has got to change, this sounds like a simple solution that could work1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Time to kill player is fine nowWe're afraid the tank meta will get even stronger.
The tank meta ended with CP2.0
Now we're in the burst meta and it really isnt very fun. Whoever gets their combo off first tends to win.
Something has got to change, this sounds like a simple solution that could work
This is a blanket slap on an issue. Some classes and builds can survive regardless. In fact people's opinion on this patch is polarising, some say it's a tank meta and some a burst meta. I believe it's a burst meta, but have fought very tanky builds with decent damage.
If they insist on doing this they should increase battle spirit to 50% from 44%. Not 60%, that is massive. You will need all damage sets like in dragonhold to kill anyone.2 -
MrMazurski✭✭✭nahh what the do idk, They buff the tanks even more, which will also have a big impact on the meta with high burst.
balance builds? Who needs this ****. Full tank or full dmg. Great choice, otherwise you will do nothing- Where "Update on Cyrodiil Performance & Upcoming AOE Tests"? I wish ZOS would stop kicking players' balls, especially those on Cyro
- - PC-EU / Ravenwatch0 -
SkaraMinoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Time to kill player should be increasedThe median TTK is not fine; It should be increased. They must nerf tank meta as well or mitigation will be too strong.PC NA0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Time to kill player should be increasedUrzigurumash wrote: »I thought perhaps they could adjust the Damage Shield penalty in Battlespirit. Not perfectly equitable, but many damage shield skills are underused.
Agreed. Lessen the damage shield penalty, so players have another defensive option. They would have to sacrifice damage to build for it, so still a trade-off.
The main culprit for the lower TTK with Update 30 is the new bomber meta. Killing 10+ people in one second will certainly skew those stats.
RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Time to kill player should be increasedTequilaFire wrote: »Bombers aren't new.
Nor have they previously been given as much power as they currently have, either.RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They wiped entire groups just fine, many famous bombers on PS4 NA.
One is always Emp on whatever Alliance he plays on for several years in a row.
Been bombers ever since Vicious Death and Clever Alchemist were introduced.Edited by TequilaFire on July 10, 2021 9:11PM0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Time to kill player should be increasedTequilaFire wrote: »They wiped entire groups just fine, many famous bombers on PS4 NA.
One is always Emp on whatever Alliance he plays on for several years in a row.
Been bombers ever since Vicious Death and Clever Alchemist were introduced.
You are correct. Imagine how much stronger they would have been with an increased Vicious Death radius, increased damage due to weapon damage stacking, Occult Overload and other new CPs, and other new things ZOS has introduced recently.RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.0 -
Marto✭✭✭✭✭
✭Time to kill player should be increasedSimply put, burst is too high."According to the calculations of the sages of the Cult of the Ancestor Moth, the batam guar is the cutest creature in all Tamriel"3 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »From Update 31 Combat PreviewLet’s start with something we’ve seen a lot of discussion on: Time to Kill (TTK) in Player versus Player environments. Compared to previous updates, the amount of damage is higher across the board than it was previously, but simultaneously, defensive power is lower too. This is mainly caused by two things: the balance standards that Champion Point 2.0 was held to in Update 29 where we introduced more choices between either offensive or defensive options, as well boosting up stats on fresh characters with the introduction of base Weapon and Spell Damage, and the base Maximum Resource adjustments from Update 30. Between these two, many builds are making more choices in improving their ability to deal or take damage while experiencing a sharper operational loss of the other. As many player builds lean towards dealing damage in PvP environments, this creates a situation where TTK lowers. While we’ve identified specifics, such as base stat adjustments, we wanted to stay focused on where the problem was felt, which was exclusively related to PvP. Our main adjustment in Update 31 will be to Battle Spirit and focusing on the damage taken portion, increasing it so the base character takes 60% less overall damage, rather than 50%. Aside from this and a few more specific, smaller adjustments, we’re still monitoring many of the moving parts (such as proc set scaling) and discussing measures we can take in future updates that won’t adversely affect parts of the game where problems aren’t as severe.
But many players disagree with this decision. We're afraid the tank meta will get even stronger. The balance now feels better than in previous patches, largely due to the fact that tank builds seem to be significantly weakened in pvp. Playing on a new class in pvp for me - manaplar, I feel how I can defend myself and inflict damage, and everything has some kind of result. Even the nb stamina feels better, although it is still quite weak and can only be dangerous for new players. I would also like to say that the reduction in damage in Battle Spirit should also be accompanied by a decrease in the incoming heal.
TTK is too short unless a player is wearing a defensive set and is vampire 3 (which almost everyone in pvp is). I'm not vamp 3 on most of my characters so the time to kill me is pretty short.0 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wonder which one of my PVE/PVP builds are gonna get nuked next patch.
In my experience every patch a sledgehammer is used on balance changes.1 -
Hescrow✭✭Time to kill player is fine nowTTK is fine now only and only if you wear at least one defensive set.0
