Maintenance for the week of December 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)

Do have players thoughts impact on the game?

EnjiroKitsune
EnjiroKitsune
✭✭✭
Hi Folks,

I was looking around a bit and fouund, for example, that for several years people share their minds here on the forum, opening topics, get them closed after a year, open them again, getting them closed after another year, and that can go on for several years until maybe giving it impliing to the thinking that ZOS won't listen, even if the vast majority of the playerbase agrees in a matter.
So, it raises the question: Do have players thoughts impact on the game?

I want to discuss this as as neutral as I can, collecting data and heraing oppinions and experiences I may simply just not have yet due to not having a that long history in the game as some of you. (I have played the game in 2018 for several months and just picked it up again now in 2021, thats why my account says I'd be in for years but in fact just am right back for jet a few months now and will stay for a few more months to come because I basicly like the game and widely enjoy it even with flaws I personaly see. So this won't be a rage or insult or downtalk of the game, because the game is good. But the Thing is, though the game IS good, it could be even much better and be super-special-awesome! (yeah, that was a reference to YuGiOh!-Abridged, nice series, would recomend, and with the ice-breaker now done let's head right into the topic))

Throughout me playing the game I recognized a few things I, in my oppinion, think about could be added or changed for the better and searched for others who also recognized them to share and talk about those personal oppinions and if not, I created a topic to it. So far so natural. The last one was what brought me to make this topic and I want to focus it as my main example to this matter.
As I wandered the beautiful citys, towns and villages of Tamriel it allways felt to me that something about the world was odd... there were interesting characters in guild halls and tavers, busy markets with vendors, town guards patroling, a worried mother giving you the quest to find her child... with the child beeing another fully grown adult. Yes, it is that topic. The missing children.
The thing is: For me and many others that breaks immersion for the players because it doesn't feel "real", it doesn't feel like a natural world even beeng in a fantasy setting, it's incomplete as a world for itself. And: There were children in Skyrim and Skyrim was a Gameworld there millions of players loved to spend hundreds sometimes even thousands of hours in because the world felt believable. And that was also due to the implementation of Children just simply existing. And that also let's uns know that Bethesda could implement them if they wanted, 'cause they already done it in Elder Scrolls V.
That are not my thoughts alone:
The question about the children is dating all the way back to 2014, if you search for the term "Children" you'll get a thousand pages of entrys about entrys, topics and posts all wanting children in the game just for the same reaons I allready mentioned.
"[...] I just want a few kids in each village behaving like kids, making the world believable." (@AlexDougherty, June 2014)

"Well, having children around, even unkillable children, would be more immersive and realistic than the childless ESO world.[...]" (@VaranisArano, December 2019)

And what are the official posts of the ZOS-Employees under those topics at least the ones I have seen:
"[...]I do not have insight or effect on the decision made.[...]" (@ZOS_CoriJ, July 2016)
and a lot of
"This thread has gotten long in the tooth as it's a year old, and for that reason we are locking it as a necro. Feel free to start a new thread about this if you wish to." (@ZOS_BillE, July 2017)
simply due to so many Treads about that topic having added up over the years.

That implies to me that, alltough the community has it's fair oppinions on how to improve the game, things in the game that should be implementet, should be changed, fixed, balanced or should even be taken out and they discuss it as it is the 'General "Discussion"' Thread and you can simply count the numbers of player who are pro and who are contra and form a picture of what the community and playerbase of the game likes or dislikes, what they want and dont want, It doesn't move it. 'Cause the people who are reading those, confess, that even beeing a member of the team developing and maintaining the game, they have no influence in it at all. So are the developers actualy not listening to the players? Shouldn't an MMO have a communication on an eye to eye level between the team behind the game and those in it? To work together in creating the very best the game itself can be via a partnership. Again, these questions are not to discredit the developers of the game, these are questions about things I simply want to understand because I likely may not have the full picture and can be wrong all along simply to not kwowing better just yet. But I have seen so many topics where people widely and sometimes even in a quite (there are always people against something, that just natural but still quite) unsion agreeing on changing, adding or removing a feature or ascpect over and over and that it would result in the game being more awesome but was never implimented afterwards and never even saw an official feedback because those of ZOS who I have seen commenting there, if I've seen any, can't just do this as they state themselfs "This is not an official stance on the subject[...] (@ZOS_CoriJ, July 2016). I don't state that IS the case, but it is the impression one could get by just having seen those as I am totaly aware that I havn't seen everything.

Again, this topic is not to descredit ZOS, this topic is not supposed to be a rant. It is just to try to talk about and understand something that has catched my eye. Gathering information I simply dont have yet, things I don't know, that I simply missed out on. 'Cause as I said right at the very beginning, I have not as a long history as others so I do it under the assumption that there in fact have been also cases there things that were discussed by the playerbase DID had impact on the game and that I just havn't seen those 'cause of the already stated reason, hence the formulation of a question. So my bid to you, who may have been arround for much longer than me, to mention also those and therefor making this one half of a point more complete to gather a wider picture and to realy being able to form an informed oppinion.

Thank you for fighting trough this rather long post and hope to see you arround in the comment section.

Regards
Enjiro Kitsune
Wan't a baked apple? It has just the right amount of sugar my Friend. Old Khajiit recipe of this ones Grandma, yes?
  • MakeMeUhSamich
    MakeMeUhSamich
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    TL;DR: Children should be in game to add realism.
  • kargen27
    kargen27
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    NPCs can be killed by players. Children would be NPCs. Some player hitting a child with the Blade of Woe might be seen by some as a bit much. Making the children invincible like guards would work to fix this problem but what would be the point?

    I have decided all the children are playing hide and seek and are really really good at it.

    I believe the developers listen to the players. They sometimes do not give us the answers we want to hear. That doesn't mean they were not listening. They have added things players asked for and have made requested changes.

    Housing is an example of something being added to the game after a lot of players requested it. Maybe it was already planned but if so maybe the players requests pushed it to the front of the line for development.
    Players complained of the grind trying to get the desired trait on gear. ZoS gave us the transmute system. Players asked for a Bard class. We didn't get a Bard class. Sometimes we get the answer we want sometimes we don't.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, players' thoughts do have an impact on the game. However, we don't dictate what the Devs will do and they may not implement it precisely how we'd like.

    An Incomplete List of Implemented Player Requests:
    • One Tamriel
    • Splitting Imperial City from Cyrodiil
    • The return of Alliance locked campaigns (and the return of the non-locked campaigns)
    • No proc set PVP
    • Battlegrounds
    • Companions
    • Skyshards for Sale
    • Skill lines for Sale
    • Alliance Change Tokens
    • Necromancer class
    • Housing
    • Housing Storage Chests
    • Transmutation
    • Stickerbook
    • Changing Skills/morphs one at a time
    • Seals of Endeavor
    • More mounts/cosmetics acquired through gameplay
    • New Tutorial offering player choice of starting location

    All of those were added to the game after players lobbied for them. Still, the Devs implemented them in their own way which may not appeal to all players.

    Consider the final item on the list: the new tutorial. While I am thrilled that players have the choice of a variety of starting locations, I am disappointed that ZOS did not include the original start where the player is killed by Mannimarco and sent to Coldharbor as the Vestige.


    It's my impression based on the above examples is that if you want to lobby ZOS for a change, you've got to keep lobbying them despite never hearing much back until it either happens or it doesn't.

    The flip side is that if you hate a proposed change, you'd best speak out against it with reasonable arguments when it comes up. If you ignore it and say nothing, you may find yourself shocked and appalled when ZOS announces that they've heard from the people who want that feature. (There were a lot of people in that boat with the Alliance-locked campaigns.)
    Edited by VaranisArano on July 6, 2021 4:05PM
  • Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo
    Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think maybe a certain amount of players are heard. Perhaps only the class reps and the accumulation of report tickets from the game, not the forum.
  • Enemy-of-Coldharbour
    Enemy-of-Coldharbour
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Children should not be in the game. I have seem some rather disgusting stuff over the years that some players can do with their pets and each other (they just do it out in the open in the middle of the cities for all to see). I would not want to see that done to children.

    Silivren (Silly) Thalionwen | Altmer Templar | Magicka | 9-Trait Master Crafter/Jeweler | Master Angler | PVE Main - Killed by U35
    Jahsul at-Sahan | Redguard Sorcerer | Stamina | Werewolf - Free Bites | PVP Main
    Derrok Gunnolf | Redguard Dragonknight | Stamina | Werewolf - Free Bites
    Liliana Littleleaf | 9-Trait Grand Master Crafter/Jeweler (non-combat)
    Amber Emberheart | Breton Dragonknight | Stamina | Master Angler
    Vlos Anon | Dunmer Nightblade | Magicka | Vampire - Free Bites
    Kalina Valos | Dunmer Warden | Magicka | Vampire - Free Bites
    Swiftpaws-Moonshadow | Khajiit Nightblade | Stamina
    Morgul Vardar | Altmer Necromancer | Magicka
    Tithin Geil | Altmer Sorceress | Magicka
    Dhryk | Imperial Dragonknight | Stamina

    Guild Master - ESO Traders Union
    PC/NA - CP 2540+
  • Xargas13
    Xargas13
    ✭✭✭
    Yes, players' thoughts do have an impact on the game. However, we don't dictate what the Devs will do and they may not implement it precisely how we'd like.

    An Incomplete List of Implemented Player Requests:
    • One Tamriel
    • Splitting Imperial City from Cyrodiil
    • The return of Alliance locked campaigns (and the return of the non-locked campaigns)
    • No proc set PVP
    • Battlegrounds
    • Companions
    • Skyshards for Sale
    • Skill lines for Sale
    • Alliance Change Tokens
    • Necromancer class
    • Housing
    • Housing Storage Chests
    • Transmutation
    • Stickerbook
    • Changing Skills/morphs one at a time
    • Seals of Endeavor
    • More mounts/cosmetics acquired through gameplay
    • New Tutorial offering player choice of starting location

    All of those were added to the game after players lobbied for them. Still, the Devs implemented them in their own way which may not appeal to all players.

    Consider the final item on the list: the new tutorial. While I am thrilled that players have the choice of a variety of starting locations, I am disappointed that ZOS did not include the original start where the player is killed by Mannimarco and sent to Coldharbor as the Vestige.


    It's my impression based on the above examples is that if you want to lobby ZOS for a change, you've got to keep lobbying them despite never hearing much back until it either happens or it doesn't.

    The flip side is that if you hate a proposed change, you'd best speak out against it with reasonable arguments when it comes up. If you ignore it and say nothing, you may find yourself shocked and appalled when ZOS announces that they've heard from the people who want that feature. (There were a lot of people in that boat with the Alliance-locked campaigns.)

    Hmm so I have to thank players for my main and other cool things? Well, my faith in humanity is a bit restored :D
  • JKorr
    JKorr
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    TL;DR: Children should be in game to add realism.

    BUT UNKILLABLE KIDS BREAKS MUH IMMURSHION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yeah, no kids please. There are many players who live the "This is why we can't have nice things" axiom.

    One other player induced change: originally in alpha there was no first person view. Testers pointed out that Elder Scrolls had first person view by default. The game was changed to include first person.
  • FlopsyPrince
    FlopsyPrince
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Varanis,

    Posters didn't ask for skyshards to be for sale, but to limit the grind, at least most did not.

    Some features have been added, but far more ideas and problems are completely ignored. I have found many game bugs that were noted 5 or more years ago, for example. That is a bad way of doing business.
    PC
    PS4/PS5
  • EnjiroKitsune
    EnjiroKitsune
    ✭✭✭
    TL;DR: Children should be in game to add realism.

    Totaly agree :)
    kargen27 wrote: »
    NPCs can be killed by players. Children would be NPCs. Some player hitting a child with the Blade of Woe might be seen by some as a bit much. Making the children invincible like guards would work to fix this problem but what would be the point?

    I have decided all the children are playing hide and seek and are really really good at it.

    I believe the developers listen to the players. They sometimes do not give us the answers we want to hear. That doesn't mean they were not listening. They have added things players asked for and have made requested changes.

    Housing is an example of something being added to the game after a lot of players requested it. Maybe it was already planned but if so maybe the players requests pushed it to the front of the line for development.
    Players complained of the grind trying to get the desired trait on gear. ZoS gave us the transmute system. Players asked for a Bard class. We didn't get a Bard class. Sometimes we get the answer we want sometimes we don't.

    Thank you, That is what I stated, I hadn't had the whole picture and didn't claim to have, thank you realy much for this insight.
    Yes, players' thoughts do have an impact on the game. However, we don't dictate what the Devs will do and they may not implement it precisely how we'd like.

    An Incomplete List of Implemented Player Requests:
    • One Tamriel
    • Splitting Imperial City from Cyrodiil
    • The return of Alliance locked campaigns (and the return of the non-locked campaigns)
    • No proc set PVP
    • Battlegrounds
    • Companions
    • Skyshards for Sale
    • Skill lines for Sale
    • Alliance Change Tokens
    • Necromancer class
    • Housing
    • Housing Storage Chests
    • Transmutation
    • Stickerbook
    • Changing Skills/morphs one at a time
    • Seals of Endeavor
    • More mounts/cosmetics acquired through gameplay
    • New Tutorial offering player choice of starting location

    All of those were added to the game after players lobbied for them. Still, the Devs implemented them in their own way which may not appeal to all players.

    Consider the final item on the list: the new tutorial. While I am thrilled that players have the choice of a variety of starting locations, I am disappointed that ZOS did not include the original start where the player is killed by Mannimarco and sent to Coldharbor as the Vestige.


    It's my impression based on the above examples is that if you want to lobby ZOS for a change, you've got to keep lobbying them despite never hearing much back until it either happens or it doesn't.

    The flip side is that if you hate a proposed change, you'd best speak out against it with reasonable arguments when it comes up. If you ignore it and say nothing, you may find yourself shocked and appalled when ZOS announces that they've heard from the people who want that feature. (There were a lot of people in that boat with the Alliance-locked campaigns.)

    THANK YOU realy much for this detailed insight, as with the previous comment, that are the things I hadn't known yet and explicetly stated so in my original post. (That was also quoting a 3-year old comment of yourself ^^'7 so even more thanks)

    In the point about the Intro I totaly agree, I was able to play the original one back then. It makesd so much more sence as the new one because it is THE explanation for the entire main quest. Because now you are just stated as a soul-shriven out of nowhere and simply don't have a reason why to fight Molag Bal from the beginning, why you are collecting soul shards, who Mannimarco is to you as a character and I totaly miss the first interactions with Cadwell because they were just gorgious. In my taste he and Sheogorath are one of the most enjoyable characters in the game.

    "despite never hearing much back until it either happens or it doesn't. " - Yeah that's a thing that hepls in leading to impressions as I had them as I wrote my original post here and is a thing that nagged me the here in the forum in general. In Topics exells in Comments and become good and meaningfull discussions and so having a wide attention in the playerbase regarding to them realy having a point there, the posts of ZOS-Staff I've seen there in 95% of the cases didn't stated anything, didn't gave any feedback, hust have been "moderated xy due to guideline xy" or removed posts. A few days ago I read a Topic regardeing Theories, ending up having the majority of posts being censored or deleted due to "conspiracy". And one then posted something like "If you (ZOS) would simlpy communicate /the thing they were talking about/ we would't need to theorize in the first place."
    Wan't a baked apple? It has just the right amount of sugar my Friend. Old Khajiit recipe of this ones Grandma, yes?
  • Mythreindeer
    Mythreindeer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Longest posts award for this thread!

    Children should be seen and not be MMO fodder.
  • EnjiroKitsune
    EnjiroKitsune
    ✭✭✭
    Longest posts award for this thread!

    I know it is long, I I appreciate that people read it.
    It's that long because I wanted to carry the Points of an Argument in a Debate: Theory -> Reason -> Evidence -> Example.
    Then hear the counter-argument. Though this not even intended to be a debate per definition because my OP was more a Question that was then answered by @cargen27 and @VaranisArano even giving me an entire list of cases where ZOS implemented playerbased suggestions so I do now know more and can come to more truthfull conclutions as I even already stated myself in the OP to be the intend instead.


    Wan't a baked apple? It has just the right amount of sugar my Friend. Old Khajiit recipe of this ones Grandma, yes?
  • FlopsyPrince
    FlopsyPrince
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Some topics keep coming up because the current method is bad for so many people. The lack of response from devs makes it seem like those players are being ignored.

    That is not a good thing.

    As to the OP, children in the game would not be a good thing, especially since Blade of Woe with them would raise serious concerns in society.
    PC
    PS4/PS5
  • whitecrow
    whitecrow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    As to the OP, children in the game would not be a good thing, especially since Blade of Woe with them would raise serious concerns in society.

    Easily solved, make them unkillable. They don't even have to have health bars. Make them like merchants or other NPCs that cannot be attacked at all.
  • Sirvaleen
    Sirvaleen
    ✭✭✭✭
    Children should not be in the game. I have seem some rather disgusting stuff over the years that some players can do with their pets and each other (they just do it out in the open in the middle of the cities for all to see). I would not want to see that done to children.

    This.

    Making them unkillable wouldn't help if that particular can of worms is opened IMHO.
  • Turtleswatter
    Turtleswatter
    ✭✭
    I'm quite happy not having children. I had this overwhelming urge to put the lot of them on a permanent naughty step in Skyrim. But if you want them about you, you could add them to your house maybe? They'd be safe then.
  • Fennwitty
    Fennwitty
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I haven't played other MMOs recently, but are there kid NPCs in other games as a general thing?

    I'd assume not.

    Largely because a subsection of players will spend a lot of time doing 'questionable' things near or to those NPCs. For themselves or to get reactions of other players.
    PC NA
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I get it (sort of) with things that the player base can't agree or there are likely technical challenges. But one thing that quite mystifies me is the option to 'hide shoulders'. This is already hidden in the game, has been requested countless times and I've never heard anyone object to the idea as an option.

    Another similar idea is more skins for warden bears, using in game skins to add to the gray option that already exists.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • SantieClaws
    SantieClaws
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well this one thinks about fish and yarn quite a lot and sometimes she gets these things.

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws
    Shunrr's Skooma Oasis - The Movie. A housing video like no other ...
    Find it here - https://youtube.com/user/wenxue2222

    Clan Claws - now recruiting khajiit and like minded others for parties, fishing and other khajiit stuff. Contact this one for an invite.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    https://www.imperialtradingcompany.eu/
  • alberichtano
    alberichtano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm quite happy not having children. I had this overwhelming urge to put the lot of them on a permanent naughty step in Skyrim. But if you want them about you, you could add them to your house maybe? They'd be safe then.

    Kind of depressing though, isn't it... that we cannot have things in the game that would make it more living and real, because there are some seriously "off" people in our community. As someone wrote earlier... this is why we can't have nice things. :'(

    (But to be fair, I think there is a whole other issue with spending bandwidth and resources on children that would add little to actual game content - high cost with little actual gain, so to speak.)
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do have players thoughts impact on the game?

    Puts on his nostalgia hat:
    There was a time when player inputs were very much valued. That was almost 8 years ago during the super secret 24/7 in-house beta when the PTS was still called the "Private Test Server".
    Case in point, those slaughterfish that prevent you from swimming too far off the map were suggested by a fellow Psijic Order tester. Originally, all you had was an invisible wall with a generic "You can't go there" message.

    Some time after launch they also tried with their "Class Representative" program as well as monthly meetings with guild leaders called the "Council of Nirn". Both of those ultimately failed though, exactly because of the lack of "impact" those groups had on the actual game. Months (and even years) of feedback from those groups without any results in-game will eventually wear out even the most dedicated enthusiast.

    shades.gif


  • zelaminator
    zelaminator
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Putting kids into the game won't be a good idea, no matter how you do it.. it will go wrong because people
  • FlopsyPrince
    FlopsyPrince
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    SirAndy wrote: »
    Do have players thoughts impact on the game?

    Puts on his nostalgia hat:
    There was a time when player inputs were very much valued. That was almost 8 years ago during the super secret 24/7 in-house beta when the PTS was still called the "Private Test Server".
    Case in point, those slaughterfish that prevent you from swimming too far off the map were suggested by a fellow Psijic Order tester. Originally, all you had was an invisible wall with a generic "You can't go there" message.

    Some time after launch they also tried with their "Class Representative" program as well as monthly meetings with guild leaders called the "Council of Nirn". Both of those ultimately failed though, exactly because of the lack of "impact" those groups had on the actual game. Months (and even years) of feedback from those groups without any results in-game will eventually wear out even the most dedicated enthusiast.

    shades.gif


    Those fish are horrible, especially when they show up where they really should not be, such as swimming around an island.
    PC
    PS4/PS5
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Those fish are horrible, especially when they show up where they really should not be, such as swimming around an island.

    Still much better than swimming against an invisible wall and a deep voice from the aether telling you that "You can't go there".
    shades.gif

  • DinoZavr
    DinoZavr
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kids NPCs might be made non-interactable (neither with Blade of Woe, nor with "Talk" prompt), but, still players would certainly make it bad with T-bagging and such. So, i also think it is not a good idea.
    PC EU
  • Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo
    Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    We don't need children NPC's, you won't get them get them anyway and you all know why, so don't act innocent. We've seen enough youtube videos about Skyrim including this.

    Just imagine they are in the 'Orphanage for invisible children of Tamriel', a special place for special children.

    Meanwhile I'm still pointing to the elephant in the room: Cyrodiil!
  • Chips_Ahoy
    Chips_Ahoy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    even if the vast majority of the playerbase agrees in a matter.

    the forum is like 1% of the player base, they are only the loudest, professional complainers.

    I think they read the comments, but everything they say will always be used against them, it is better to listen and speak only what is necessary.
  • whitecrow
    whitecrow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    All these people fantasizing about what might happen to children in Tamriel makes me wonder who the perverts are.
  • Destai
    Destai
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    I don’t want children to be in this game because I don’t trust they would be tolerable. We already have Stuga. Imagine annoying kids sullying your crafting or stealing. No thanks.
  • DarcyMardin
    DarcyMardin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Since there are no children in the game, I wish they’d get rid of the cradles. They make me think there’s an epidemic that kills all babies in Tamriel.
  • Shazanti
    Shazanti
    ✭✭✭
    Sirvaleen wrote: »
    Children should not be in the game. I have seem some rather disgusting stuff over the years that some players can do with their pets and each other (they just do it out in the open in the middle of the cities for all to see). I would not want to see that done to children.

    This.

    Making them unkillable wouldn't help if that particular can of worms is opened IMHO.

    Yes to both of these.

    I was originally of the 'Where are the CHILDREN?!' group, because the world does feel lacking without them. I thought making them unkillable like so many other NPCs would fix that. But there are plenty of really sick people/people who think disgusting things are humorous that could easily abuse a system with children, even unkillable ones.

    So I still find it sad that there aren't any children, and the game world still feels lacking without them, but in the end it's the best choice, sad as it is.
Sign In or Register to comment.