Necromancers are overperforming

ThePianist · July 2021

How about we add skill line restrictions for certain classes?

Keep the necro as is right now but have restrictions on them. Their skills are already a criminal act (like vamp and werewolf). BUT necromancers cannot use Fighters guild, Mages Guild and they certainly cannot use Psijic skills.

Waseem · July 2021

which would you prefer as a complaint from customers as a company owner?

New class I paid money for is weak
New class I paid money for is too strong

It's that simple

RedFireDisco · July 2021

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

JayKwellen · July 2021

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.
...
Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy
...
Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Finally someone gets it.

For all those people gnashing their teeth, which of those buffs are you gonna give us if you nerf our tankiness? Are we going to get an execute? A usable spammable? A sorcery self-buff? A self-shield?

I already know the answer though, and it's 'nothing'. Because these people can't seem to understand why the least mobile class in the game, and I do mean literally in the literal sense as magcro is far less mobile than even wardens, DKs, and Templars, also needs to be the most tanky to be viable.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2021

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Necro and Warden are the main reasons (beside performance) why I don't want to play this game anymore tbh. While I agree that the magicka version of Necro is problematic and not healthy for the game I think it's safe to say that stamcro is the true offender in the current meta. It has the better spammable (Dizzy), one of the best executes in the game, 10% mitigation while having even more hot healing than magcro and perma major defile on top of that which is just lol (even tho defile got nerfed this is just wtf devs).

I don't get how stamcro is allowed to counter healing and dodge with a hard hitting semi spammable skill while lots of classes aren't even allowed to have any counters against dodge/healing/block at all. Also the class is so tanky that it's just a joke while still having a ton of peak burst which is enough to kill pretty much everything which isn't a tank (same goes for stamden but at least they nerfed Arctic a bit). There's literally not a single class or counter which is good against necro, the only "counter" is to zerg them down. Having specs which are that tanky in PvP is extremely unhealthy for the game since being (almost) immortal in any 1v1 scenario completely eliminates the purpose of PvP. Duels for example got completely annihilated by these two specs and sadly that not the only scenario in which Necro is overperforming (I honestly can't think of any scenario in which a Necro is doing bad...).

Just give Necros and Wardens their GO rank and ban them from PvP thx.

Necro has an execute?

JayKwellen · July 2021

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Necro and Warden are the main reasons (beside performance) why I don't want to play this game anymore tbh. While I agree that the magicka version of Necro is problematic and not healthy for the game I think it's safe to say that stamcro is the true offender in the current meta. It has the better spammable (Dizzy), one of the best executes in the game, 10% mitigation while having even more hot healing than magcro and perma major defile on top of that which is just lol (even tho defile got nerfed this is just wtf devs).

I don't get how stamcro is allowed to counter healing and dodge with a hard hitting semi spammable skill while lots of classes aren't even allowed to have any counters against dodge/healing/block at all. Also the class is so tanky that it's just a joke while still having a ton of peak burst which is enough to kill pretty much everything which isn't a tank (same goes for stamden but at least they nerfed Arctic a bit). There's literally not a single class or counter which is good against necro, the only "counter" is to zerg them down. Having specs which are that tanky in PvP is extremely unhealthy for the game since being (almost) immortal in any 1v1 scenario completely eliminates the purpose of PvP. Duels for example got completely annihilated by these two specs and sadly that not the only scenario in which Necro is overperforming (I honestly can't think of any scenario in which a Necro is doing bad...).

Just give Necros and Wardens their GO rank and ban them from PvP thx.

Necro has an execute?

Detonating siphon, obviously.

Sephyr · July 2021

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Let's also not forget that Stalking Blastbones no longer stalks and we just get a small bonus compared to what we're supposed to get, but of course people argued that back in the day too saying that the ability 'worked' when you don't get the full benefit of the 'Stalking' part of 'Stalking Blastbones' which is exactly the point; they were supposed to fix it and they haven't. It's been over a year and a half now.

BohnT2 · July 2021

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.
Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable
My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Magnecro currently doesn't need an execute because survivability dropped while damage has increased so far that you can get kills with ease.

Magcro has the same mobility as the other specs you've mentioned, there's this secret skill no one uses it's called race against time.

Why would magnecro need a class shield? That doesn't make any sense you want to stack spelldamage on magnecro as all your offensive and defensive skills have insane spelldamage scaling, you don't want to waste that potential by having to stack max magicka.
On top of that the current defence is already overtuned and it is much higher than all other specs while also being significantly cheaper.

Here's the Build I've used to compare magnecro and magdk to each other you can do the same for any other class and magnecro will come out on top. As explained above this build isn't fully optimized for both specs but had to be equal for comparison sake. In reality magnecro can run another offensive set while other specs can't.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=364353

For major sorcery you use degeneration, especially because it's stronger on magnecro than other specs who have to use it (magdk, magplar)

Major prophecy is nice to have but no necessity at all, especially because necro gains up to 20% crit chance when healing while you drop low.

Something about graveyard, yes it can only be used every 20 seconds but more importantly it hasn't been required to get kills for 4 patches now.

If people are forced to kill blastbones this means they aren't damaging you and you can keep the blastbones up 100% of the time. They're free Los that still deals damage when they die to meele opponents. And the have the same scaling as DBoS.
I'll repeat that a regular skill that hits every 2.5-4 seconds has the same damage scaling as an ultimate, ou and its damage increases if it doesn't hit instantly.

BohnT2 · July 2021

Sephyr wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Let's also not forget that Stalking Blastbones no longer stalks and we just get a small bonus compared to what we're supposed to get, but of course people argued that back in the day too saying that the ability 'worked' when you don't get the full benefit of the 'Stalking' part of 'Stalking Blastbones' which is exactly the point; they were supposed to fix it and they haven't. It's been over a year and a half now.

This is wrong, prior to CP 2.0 the damage buff would be insignificant due to other multiplicative % buffs diminishing its added power.
Since CP 2.0 dropped the damage increase is much more significant which has led to the amount of 15k+ blastbone hits to skyrocket.

Sephyr · July 2021

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Let's also not forget that Stalking Blastbones no longer stalks and we just get a small bonus compared to what we're supposed to get, but of course people argued that back in the day too saying that the ability 'worked' when you don't get the full benefit of the 'Stalking' part of 'Stalking Blastbones' which is exactly the point; they were supposed to fix it and they haven't. It's been over a year and a half now.

This is wrong, prior to CP 2.0 the damage buff would be insignificant due to other multiplicative % buffs diminishing its added power.
Since CP 2.0 dropped the damage increase is much more significant which has led to the amount of 15k+ blastbone hits to skyrocket.

It's not because the latter part of the ability was taken out during the Harrowstorm patch last year. It has NOTHING to do with the CP due to the simple fact that they were getting the skeletons to leap immediately, thus removing the initial stalk from Stalking Blastbones. The patch notes still continue to reflect this, you can read them if you so chose.

Edit: Here's the thread;
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6613398/#Comment_6613398

Grave Lord
Blastbones:
The skeleton from this ability and its morphs will now attempt to leap from up to 28 meters after a short delay of spawning in, rather than 15 meters.
Fixed an issue where the skeleton would appear to jump backwards when leaping in close ranges. The skeleton will now also properly attempt to face its target while leaping, rather than moon-walk jumping.
Increased the speed in which the skeleton jumps.

Developer Comment:

The above changes were made in hopes to greatly reduce situations where the Blastbones would become confused while walking around and take longer than intended - or completely fail – to reach its target. We understand the change to this ability significantly reduces the morph functionality of Stalking Blastbones in most situations, but we’ve opted to keep it untouched while we gauge feedback on how the changes to the base ability and reliability of the attack feel. Keep in mind that Stalking Blastbones guarantees at least a 10% damage increase over the base morph, so even in situations where it jumps immediately, this morph isn’t completely wasted; it just will not reach its highest scaling unless the Blastbones needs to gain line of sight on the target you initially cast it on.

BohnT2 · July 2021

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Let's also not forget that Stalking Blastbones no longer stalks and we just get a small bonus compared to what we're supposed to get, but of course people argued that back in the day too saying that the ability 'worked' when you don't get the full benefit of the 'Stalking' part of 'Stalking Blastbones' which is exactly the point; they were supposed to fix it and they haven't. It's been over a year and a half now.

This is wrong, prior to CP 2.0 the damage buff would be insignificant due to other multiplicative % buffs diminishing its added power.
Since CP 2.0 dropped the damage increase is much more significant which has led to the amount of 15k+ blastbone hits to skyrocket.

It's not because the latter part of the ability was taken out during the Harrowstorm patch last year. It has NOTHING to do with the CP due to the simple fact that they were getting the skeletons to leap immediately, thus removing the initial stalk from Stalking Blastbones. The patch notes still continue to reflect this, you can read them if you so chose.

They don't leap instantly in PvP tho depending on where you fight[snip]

[edited for baiting]

TheImperfect · July 2021

This is why I try to have every class and race combination. As soon as I get something that works efficiently it gets criticism until it's nerfed.

Sephyr · July 2021

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Let's also not forget that Stalking Blastbones no longer stalks and we just get a small bonus compared to what we're supposed to get, but of course people argued that back in the day too saying that the ability 'worked' when you don't get the full benefit of the 'Stalking' part of 'Stalking Blastbones' which is exactly the point; they were supposed to fix it and they haven't. It's been over a year and a half now.

This is wrong, prior to CP 2.0 the damage buff would be insignificant due to other multiplicative % buffs diminishing its added power.
Since CP 2.0 dropped the damage increase is much more significant which has led to the amount of 15k+ blastbone hits to skyrocket.

It's not because the latter part of the ability was taken out during the Harrowstorm patch last year. It has NOTHING to do with the CP due to the simple fact that they were getting the skeletons to leap immediately, thus removing the initial stalk from Stalking Blastbones. The patch notes still continue to reflect this, you can read them if you so chose.

They don't leap instantly in PvP tho depending on where you fight[snip]

Reread the post, I put in the patch notes. I commented the patch notes and those don't lie, my guy. Unless you're LoSing, you only get the 10% of bonus damage from the morph instead of what was initially intended. Unless you want to call the developers liars, then by all means — take that up with them.

[edited to remove quote]

BohnT2 · July 2021

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Let's also not forget that Stalking Blastbones no longer stalks and we just get a small bonus compared to what we're supposed to get, but of course people argued that back in the day too saying that the ability 'worked' when you don't get the full benefit of the 'Stalking' part of 'Stalking Blastbones' which is exactly the point; they were supposed to fix it and they haven't. It's been over a year and a half now.

This is wrong, prior to CP 2.0 the damage buff would be insignificant due to other multiplicative % buffs diminishing its added power.
Since CP 2.0 dropped the damage increase is much more significant which has led to the amount of 15k+ blastbone hits to skyrocket.

It's not because the latter part of the ability was taken out during the Harrowstorm patch last year. It has NOTHING to do with the CP due to the simple fact that they were getting the skeletons to leap immediately, thus removing the initial stalk from Stalking Blastbones. The patch notes still continue to reflect this, you can read them if you so chose.

They don't leap instantly in PvP tho depending on where you fight[snip]

Reread the post, I put in the patch notes. I commented the patch notes and those don't lie, my guy.

Oh yeah patch notes never lie:
Just like those:
"Frags have a 200ms minimum traveltime now"
"49k days debuffs got fixed"
"The game became more responsive with every performance patch"
"Psijic ult got fixed"
"Cloak doesn't break unintentionally anymore"
And i could go on and on.

Any fight that includes people breaking line of side will result in blastbones not jumping instantly after they've spawned and that's almost any encounter in PvP be it while kiting around rocks, trees, fighting in a keep or in a tower.
In practice they will gain access to the damage buff due to having to wait for the target to be in line of sight.

[edited to remove quote]

Sephyr · July 2021

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Let's also not forget that Stalking Blastbones no longer stalks and we just get a small bonus compared to what we're supposed to get, but of course people argued that back in the day too saying that the ability 'worked' when you don't get the full benefit of the 'Stalking' part of 'Stalking Blastbones' which is exactly the point; they were supposed to fix it and they haven't. It's been over a year and a half now.

This is wrong, prior to CP 2.0 the damage buff would be insignificant due to other multiplicative % buffs diminishing its added power.
Since CP 2.0 dropped the damage increase is much more significant which has led to the amount of 15k+ blastbone hits to skyrocket.

It's not because the latter part of the ability was taken out during the Harrowstorm patch last year. It has NOTHING to do with the CP due to the simple fact that they were getting the skeletons to leap immediately, thus removing the initial stalk from Stalking Blastbones. The patch notes still continue to reflect this, you can read them if you so chose.

They don't leap instantly in PvP tho depending on where you fight[snip]

Reread the post, I put in the patch notes. I commented the patch notes and those don't lie, my guy.

Oh yeah patch notes never lie:
Just like those:
"Frags have a 200ms minimum traveltime now"
"49k days debuffs got fixed"
"The game became more responsive with every performance patch"
"Psijic ult got fixed"
"Cloak doesn't break unintentionally anymore"
And i could go on and on.

Any fight that includes people breaking line of side will result in blastbones not jumping instantly after they've spawned and that's almost any encounter in PvP be it while kiting around rocks, trees, fighting in a keep or in a tower.
In practice they will gain access to the damage buff due to having to wait for the target to be in line of sight.

And again, it's still an ability that needs fixing. You're not always guaranteed a situation of line of sight.

Either way, I'm done here because the patch notes still reflect that the morph is still not performing to it's fullest and that's a fact.

[edited to remove quote]

BohnT2 · July 2021

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Let's also not forget that Stalking Blastbones no longer stalks and we just get a small bonus compared to what we're supposed to get, but of course people argued that back in the day too saying that the ability 'worked' when you don't get the full benefit of the 'Stalking' part of 'Stalking Blastbones' which is exactly the point; they were supposed to fix it and they haven't. It's been over a year and a half now.

This is wrong, prior to CP 2.0 the damage buff would be insignificant due to other multiplicative % buffs diminishing its added power.
Since CP 2.0 dropped the damage increase is much more significant which has led to the amount of 15k+ blastbone hits to skyrocket.

It's not because the latter part of the ability was taken out during the Harrowstorm patch last year. It has NOTHING to do with the CP due to the simple fact that they were getting the skeletons to leap immediately, thus removing the initial stalk from Stalking Blastbones. The patch notes still continue to reflect this, you can read them if you so chose.

They don't leap instantly in PvP tho depending on where you fight[snip]

Reread the post, I put in the patch notes. I commented the patch notes and those don't lie, my guy.

Oh yeah patch notes never lie:
Just like those:
"Frags have a 200ms minimum traveltime now"
"49k days debuffs got fixed"
"The game became more responsive with every performance patch"
"Psijic ult got fixed"
"Cloak doesn't break unintentionally anymore"
And i could go on and on.

Any fight that includes people breaking line of side will result in blastbones not jumping instantly after they've spawned and that's almost any encounter in PvP be it while kiting around rocks, trees, fighting in a keep or in a tower.
In practice they will gain access to the damage buff due to having to wait for the target to be in line of sight.

And again, it's still an ability that needs fixing. You're not always guaranteed a situation of line of sight.

Either way, I'm done here because the patch notes still reflect that the morph is still not performing to it's fullest and that's a fact.

And yet it's overperforming...

[edited to remove quote]

Supertonicbaker · July 2021

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Let's also not forget that Stalking Blastbones no longer stalks and we just get a small bonus compared to what we're supposed to get, but of course people argued that back in the day too saying that the ability 'worked' when you don't get the full benefit of the 'Stalking' part of 'Stalking Blastbones' which is exactly the point; they were supposed to fix it and they haven't. It's been over a year and a half now.

This is wrong, prior to CP 2.0 the damage buff would be insignificant due to other multiplicative % buffs diminishing its added power.
Since CP 2.0 dropped the damage increase is much more significant which has led to the amount of 15k+ blastbone hits to skyrocket.

It's not because the latter part of the ability was taken out during the Harrowstorm patch last year. It has NOTHING to do with the CP due to the simple fact that they were getting the skeletons to leap immediately, thus removing the initial stalk from Stalking Blastbones. The patch notes still continue to reflect this, you can read them if you so chose.

They don't leap instantly in PvP tho depending on where you fight[snip]

Reread the post, I put in the patch notes. I commented the patch notes and those don't lie, my guy.

Oh yeah patch notes never lie:
Just like those:
"Frags have a 200ms minimum traveltime now"
"49k days debuffs got fixed"
"The game became more responsive with every performance patch"
"Psijic ult got fixed"
"Cloak doesn't break unintentionally anymore"
And i could go on and on.

Any fight that includes people breaking line of side will result in blastbones not jumping instantly after they've spawned and that's almost any encounter in PvP be it while kiting around rocks, trees, fighting in a keep or in a tower.
In practice they will gain access to the damage buff due to having to wait for the target to be in line of sight.

And again, it's still an ability that needs fixing. You're not always guaranteed a situation of line of sight.

Either way, I'm done here because the patch notes still reflect that the morph is still not performing to it's fullest and that's a fact.

And yet it's overperforming...

You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

*looks back down at the slowly climbing necromancer*

[edited to remove quote]

BohnT2 · July 2021

Supertonicbaker wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

That Magcro burst from Boneyard requires a lot of things. You can only use it every 20 seconds and you need to commit three pieces of jewelry to the harmony trait which severely diminishes all other skills.

Magcro has no execute
Magcro has no mobility
Magcro has no useable stun
Magcro has no class shield
No Access to Major sorcery (or minor)
No Access to Major Prophecy

So it takes up spell pots meaning no other tripot or potion buffs.

Its heal gives you minor defile.

Blastbones frequently fails to hit your target (like, a lot) meaning you miss so many burst combos . Sometimes it hits nothing at all because it can't run around a dead body or get caught for reasons and it can be mowed down by offense.

Just because you died to it doesn't make it op. It's not spammable

My magplar with the same gear has better heals, same delayed burst in Light+Charge+Spear Ult+Jabby+Light Procs

All while healing me

My Sorc can hit super hard, execute and then streak away all day long

My Magwarden has more buffs and can use tripots for stam support and more healing/recoverys

My Mag Dk has better healing received and a big dot that heals a ton (Embers) and a really cheap ult that bursts and shields + mending.

My magblade ... Well, magblade sucks pretty much skill for skill but it does have cloak which is broken by every AOE and detect pots, but it's still there.

Magcro is clunky, misses combos constantly and has to tank out more damage because it can never escape.

Let's also not forget that Stalking Blastbones no longer stalks and we just get a small bonus compared to what we're supposed to get, but of course people argued that back in the day too saying that the ability 'worked' when you don't get the full benefit of the 'Stalking' part of 'Stalking Blastbones' which is exactly the point; they were supposed to fix it and they haven't. It's been over a year and a half now.

This is wrong, prior to CP 2.0 the damage buff would be insignificant due to other multiplicative % buffs diminishing its added power.
Since CP 2.0 dropped the damage increase is much more significant which has led to the amount of 15k+ blastbone hits to skyrocket.

It's not because the latter part of the ability was taken out during the Harrowstorm patch last year. It has NOTHING to do with the CP due to the simple fact that they were getting the skeletons to leap immediately, thus removing the initial stalk from Stalking Blastbones. The patch notes still continue to reflect this, you can read them if you so chose.

They don't leap instantly in PvP tho depending on where you fight[snip]

Reread the post, I put in the patch notes. I commented the patch notes and those don't lie, my guy.

Oh yeah patch notes never lie:
Just like those:
"Frags have a 200ms minimum traveltime now"
"49k days debuffs got fixed"
"The game became more responsive with every performance patch"
"Psijic ult got fixed"
"Cloak doesn't break unintentionally anymore"
And i could go on and on.

Any fight that includes people breaking line of side will result in blastbones not jumping instantly after they've spawned and that's almost any encounter in PvP be it while kiting around rocks, trees, fighting in a keep or in a tower.
In practice they will gain access to the damage buff due to having to wait for the target to be in line of sight.

And again, it's still an ability that needs fixing. You're not always guaranteed a situation of line of sight.

Either way, I'm done here because the patch notes still reflect that the morph is still not performing to it's fullest and that's a fact.

And yet it's overperforming...

You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

*looks back down at the slowly climbing necromancer*

So you're telling us that a skill with the damage of an ultimate, that costs 1.2k mag, applies an uncounterable snare when hitting you from behind or the sides and provides LoS is balanced?

[edited to remove quote]

JayKwellen · July 2021

BohnT2 wrote: »

Magnecro currently doesn't need an execute because survivability dropped while damage has increased so far that you can get kills with ease.

Genuinely curious, have you ever actually played a magcro? Have you played one solo and/or dueled where you have to secure kills yourself?

BohnT2 wrote: »

Magcro has the same mobility as the other specs you've mentioned, there's this secret skill no one uses it's called race against time.

Where's our gap closer (templar, DK, NB, sorc)? Where's our speed buff (warden, sorc, NB)? Where's our snare removal (sorc, DK, NB, kinda templar)?

What class has no representation on that list? Right. If you compare the classes as they are without the reliance on paid DLC content to crutch on, magcro undeniably has the worst mobility. Only class that comes close is Warden, and even they have a speed buff.

BohnT2 wrote: »

Why would magnecro need a class shield? That doesn't make any sense you want to stack spelldamage on magnecro as all your offensive and defensive skills have insane spelldamage scaling, you don't want to waste that potential by having to stack max magicka.

If we don't have mobility and the complainers get their wish to reduce magcro tankiness further, why wouldn't they want a shield? As we have already established they have no way to create distance between themselves and their enemy and have to literally sit there and face tank it.

BohnT2 wrote: »

On top of that the current defence is already overtuned and it is much higher than all other specs while also being significantly cheaper.

Yet again, they have more because they have less.

But hey, I'd be happy to lose some of my mitigation if you gave me a tool to kite better since, after all, that's something I'll need to do if I want to actually survive. Also an instant CC to relieve pressure. What would you suggest?

BohnT2 wrote: »

For major sorcery you use degeneration, especially because it's stronger on magnecro than other specs who have to use it (magdk, magplar)

Major prophecy is nice to have but no necessity at all, especially because necro gains up to 20% crit chance when healing while you drop low.

Degen is a trash DoT typically only used out of absolute necessity. DK's still have major sorcery, albeit attached to an awful skill, and while templars don't have access to major they do get minor for free.

Most good magcros I've seen only run degen if they have an open flex-spot, otherwise they just rely on spell-power potions. Especially because the 12% crit from sorcery isn't something to lightly overlook just because you get a whole 20% more crit chance at 1% health. Now that most magcros also dropped from 30% to 12% execute crit it's even more relevant than it ever was before outside of wearing malacath.

BohnT2 wrote: »

Something about graveyard, yes it can only be used every 20 seconds but more importantly it hasn't been required to get kills for 4 patches now.

If you get caught in an ulti + blastbones combo then yeah, sure, absolutely.

So outside of having to rely on an ultimate to get kills, who's dying to a magcros blastbones + light attack/spammable spam other than potatoes and total glass cannons? Tell us who they are so we can help them.

Unless you're talking about procs. Which, just to be clear, I'm not. I'm interested in the classes actual mechanics and performance on it's own.

BohnT2 wrote: »

If people are forced to kill blastbones this means they aren't damaging you and you can keep the blastbones up 100% of the time. They're free Los that still deals damage when they die to meele opponents. And the have the same scaling as DBoS.
I'll repeat that a regular skill that hits every 2.5-4 seconds has the same damage scaling as an ultimate, ou and its damage increases if it doesn't hit instantly.

Blastbones do hit hard. So tell me then, outside of blastbones what am I supposed to do damage with? One graverobber every twenty seconds? Light attack spam? Any of the horribly soft hitting mag spammables?

I mean come on, you somehow managed to address all these "strengths" without acknowledging the context they exist within. Seriously bro, how much magcro have you played and how seriously have you played it in PvP?

BohnT2 · July 2021

JayKwellen wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Magnecro currently doesn't need an execute because survivability dropped while damage has increased so far that you can get kills with ease.

Genuinely curious, have you ever actually played a magcro? Have you played one solo and/or dueled where you have to secure kills yourself?

BohnT2 wrote: »

Magcro has the same mobility as the other specs you've mentioned, there's this secret skill no one uses it's called race against time.

Where's our gap closer (templar, DK, NB, sorc)? Where's our speed buff (warden, sorc, NB)? Where's our snare removal (sorc, DK, NB, kinda templar)?

What class has no representation on that list? Right. If you compare the classes as they are without the reliance on paid DLC content to crutch on, magcro undeniably has the worst mobility. Only class that comes close is Warden, and even they have a speed buff.

BohnT2 wrote: »

Why would magnecro need a class shield? That doesn't make any sense you want to stack spelldamage on magnecro as all your offensive and defensive skills have insane spelldamage scaling, you don't want to waste that potential by having to stack max magicka.

If we don't have mobility and the complainers get their wish to reduce magcro tankiness further, why wouldn't they want a shield? As we have already established they have no way to create distance between themselves and their enemy and have to literally sit there and face tank it.

BohnT2 wrote: »

On top of that the current defence is already overtuned and it is much higher than all other specs while also being significantly cheaper.

Yet again, they have more because they have less.

But hey, I'd be happy to lose some of my mitigation if you gave me a tool to kite better since, after all, that's something I'll need to do if I want to actually survive. Also an instant CC to relieve pressure. What would you suggest?

BohnT2 wrote: »

For major sorcery you use degeneration, especially because it's stronger on magnecro than other specs who have to use it (magdk, magplar)

Major prophecy is nice to have but no necessity at all, especially because necro gains up to 20% crit chance when healing while you drop low.

Degen is a trash DoT typically only used out of absolute necessity. DK's still have major sorcery, albeit attached to an awful skill, and while templars don't have access to major they do get minor for free.

Most good magcros I've seen only run degen if they have an open flex-spot, otherwise they just rely on spell-power potions. Especially because the 12% crit from sorcery isn't something to lightly overlook just because you get a whole 20% more crit chance at 1% health. Now that most magcros also dropped from 30% to 12% execute crit it's even more relevant than it ever was before outside of wearing malacath.

BohnT2 wrote: »

Something about graveyard, yes it can only be used every 20 seconds but more importantly it hasn't been required to get kills for 4 patches now.

If you get caught in an ulti + blastbones combo then yeah, sure, absolutely.

So outside of having to rely on an ultimate to get kills, who's dying to a magcros blastbones + light attack/spammable spam other than potatoes and total glass cannons? Tell us who they are so we can help them.

Unless you're talking about procs. Which, just to be clear, I'm not. I'm interested in the classes actual mechanics and performance on it's own.

BohnT2 wrote: »

If people are forced to kill blastbones this means they aren't damaging you and you can keep the blastbones up 100% of the time. They're free Los that still deals damage when they die to meele opponents. And the have the same scaling as DBoS.
I'll repeat that a regular skill that hits every 2.5-4 seconds has the same damage scaling as an ultimate, ou and its damage increases if it doesn't hit instantly.

Blastbones do hit hard. So tell me then, outside of blastbones what am I supposed to do damage with? One graverobber every twenty seconds? Light attack spam? Any of the horribly soft hitting mag spammables?

I mean come on, you somehow managed to address all these "strengths" without acknowledging the context they exist within. Seriously bro, how much magcro have you played and how seriously have you played it in PvP?

Magnecro is the class I have played the most since Elsweyr, you can read through my post history and you'll see that I complained about its viability until procs arrived and CP2.0 got introduced.
Or you can check the PvP Tierlists released, they'll paint the same picture.

[snip]My first post states that magnecro is a abomination made from a few overperforming skills and a huge amount of trash skills and that I'm asking for a full rework of the class.

[edited for baiting]

Urzigurumash · July 2021

Well. One thing I think we should all agree on, it is fine that the most difficult to use skills should be the strongest skills. In this way despite Gravy and Colossus being the highest tooltip skills in the game, perhaps they are balanced.

Has anybody else on Xbox NA seen a MagCro in a high MMR BGs, or rather in the high MMR slot on a random team? I have once, maybe twice. Yes they were disastrous when they did show up, but still by far the least popular class for us. I'm not sure if it's just the nature of the MMR, or because they're difficult to play, or because they're not fun to play. I know some extremely experienced players who think MagCros are very fun to play, but they don't play BGs, and they are among the most technically proficient players I know.

@JayKwellen is quite right that the least mobile class, which MagCro most certainly is within the confines of their class kit, should also be exceptionally tanky - but MagCro's hardest hitting skills are all ranged - so they should still be less tanky than DKs. This is my only real issue besides Hexproof and Curative Curse, as I'm unabashedly biased only towards the interests of DK.

If we're talking about what should be deleted from the game, since we all agree this is a fair and prudent approach to balance, how about deleting RaT? Kiting is abominable, only facetanking is virtuous, says this DK. Homogenization is undesirable. The present strength of RaT is a homogenizing force. I think @ThePianist is right that prohibiting access to guild skills would bring both Necros down quite substantially and is very thematic considering the nature of the guilds, but at least in PvP this might be too severe in light of the nerf to Death Knell and Malacath by forcing Necros to run Power Pots for any appreciable Crit.

I think an immobile and high burst ranged spec with numerous cast times is an appropriate theme for MagCro, having to carry out their sordid rituals and all, but then again, once upon a time that seemed to be the theme for Templar. Of course it is reasonably thematic that Templar and Necro are some sort of mirror or inverse of each other, as Warden and DK should also be.

Many disparage RP and theme having anything to do with PvP balance, but, these things are what makes these sorts of games an interesting alternative to Billiards and Table Tennis.

Red99 · July 2021

The amount of dmg mitigation that spirit guardian and blastbone offer need an adjustament for sure, the fact that u can summon a pet every 4 sec that break line of sight is ridiculous+ 10% mitigation from ghost+ op heals in necro kit make this class especially the stamina simply op

Parasaurolophus · July 2021

Well. One thing I think we should all agree on, it is fine that the most difficult to use skills should be the strongest skills. In this way despite Gravy and Colossus being the highest tooltip skills in the game, perhaps they are balanced.

I do not agree. I do not see anything overly difficult in the use of certain skills. You just learn it over time and that's it. I don't want to underestimate the player's skill, but you shouldn't overestimate it either. In my experience, my "skill" also "increases" a lot when I play on stamcro or stamden, or when I make a more meta build on my stamnb.

Urzigurumash · July 2021

BrownChicken wrote: »

Well. One thing I think we should all agree on, it is fine that the most difficult to use skills should be the strongest skills. In this way despite Gravy and Colossus being the highest tooltip skills in the game, perhaps they are balanced.

I do not agree. I do not see anything overly difficult in the use of certain skills. You just learn it over time and that's it. I don't want to underestimate the player's skill, but you shouldn't overestimate it either. In my experience, my "skill" also "increases" a lot when I play on stamcro or stamden, or when I make a more meta build on my stamnb.

Well if you guys are landing all 3 hits of Colossus as easily as you're landing a Leap or an Incap - in as wide a range of scenarios - then yes we have a gulf of skill between us. Tether and Guardian on the other hand, nothing difficult about keeping those up.

Again, where are the MagCros in high MMR BGs on Xbox NA? Perhaps the class is being carried by add-ons in BGs on PC or something? As much talk as there is of balancing PvE and PvP separately - we should also be honest that Console and PC would best be balanced separately.

I'm just speaking towards whether there should be a mathematical advantage to skills that have a clear kinetic disadvantage. Whether this kinetic disadvantage for Graverobber is balanced or not is debatable and situational. By far it was the leading cause of death in No Procrodiil for me, by far in experienced hands MagCro was the most challenging opponent in No Procrodiil. I had many friendly duels against some other base-game class until a MagCro pranced by and graced us both with their Gravy. Colossus on the other hand, in the full spectrum of scenarios, the kinetic disadvantage is indisputable to me, but if this is a console scrub issue then never mind. For sure when I watch clips of PC the number of Necros far outnumbers what we see on Xbox. As for Blastbones, I would say it has both a kinetic and a mathematical advantage over equivalent skills - when it functions as intended.

Balance shouldn't be that everything is the same grey - but rather that neon blue, neon green, and neon pink are all equally vivid. In my opinion.

Andre_Noir · July 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

BrownChicken wrote: »

Well. One thing I think we should all agree on, it is fine that the most difficult to use skills should be the strongest skills. In this way despite Gravy and Colossus being the highest tooltip skills in the game, perhaps they are balanced.

I do not agree. I do not see anything overly difficult in the use of certain skills. You just learn it over time and that's it. I don't want to underestimate the player's skill, but you shouldn't overestimate it either. In my experience, my "skill" also "increases" a lot when I play on stamcro or stamden, or when I make a more meta build on my stamnb.

Well if you guys are landing all 3 hits of Colossus as easily as you're landing a Leap or an Incap - in as wide a range of scenarios - then yes we have a gulf of skill between us. Tether and Guardian on the other hand, nothing difficult about keeping those up.

Again, where are the MagCros in high MMR BGs on Xbox NA? Perhaps the class is being carried by add-ons in BGs on PC or something? As much talk as there is of balancing PvE and PvP separately - we should also be honest that Console and PC would best be balanced separately.

I'm just speaking towards whether there should be a mathematical advantage to skills that have a clear kinetic disadvantage. Whether this kinetic disadvantage for Graverobber is balanced or not is debatable and situational. By far it was the leading cause of death in No Procrodiil for me, by far in experienced hands MagCro was the most challenging opponent in No Procrodiil. I had many friendly duels against some other base-game class until a MagCro pranced by and graced us both with their Gravy. Colossus on the other hand, in the full spectrum of scenarios, the kinetic disadvantage is indisputable to me, but if this is a console scrub issue then never mind. For sure when I watch clips of PC the number of Necros far outnumbers what we see on Xbox. As for Blastbones, I would say it has both a kinetic and a mathematical advantage over equivalent skills - when it functions as intended.

Balance shouldn't be that everything is the same grey - but rather that neon blue, neon green, and neon pink are all equally vivid. In my opinion.

Why do you even compare Colossus and Incap ? Why not with Veil of Blades ?

Necro in every form is vastly overturned class. Sorcs and NB doesn't shine as PVP healers so why exceptional PVP healer should be on par with them in terms of damage ?

TequilaFire · July 2021

Sigh, why do elitists always want to kill fun in a game.
Just ban certain necro skills from your tournaments like you do everything else you don't like.

Ratzkifal · July 2021

If only necro was as powerful as you are making it seem. Maybe I would be having fun playing it if it actually worked like that.
Stamcro can be a bit oppressive, I agree, but mainly because they can use their twohander to get Brutality, a solid gap closer and an execute that their class otherwise has no access too. Magcro has no such option.
Personally I have no problems fighting either magcros or stamcros.

Urzigurumash · July 2021

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

BrownChicken wrote: »

Well. One thing I think we should all agree on, it is fine that the most difficult to use skills should be the strongest skills. In this way despite Gravy and Colossus being the highest tooltip skills in the game, perhaps they are balanced.

I do not agree. I do not see anything overly difficult in the use of certain skills. You just learn it over time and that's it. I don't want to underestimate the player's skill, but you shouldn't overestimate it either. In my experience, my "skill" also "increases" a lot when I play on stamcro or stamden, or when I make a more meta build on my stamnb.

Well if you guys are landing all 3 hits of Colossus as easily as you're landing a Leap or an Incap - in as wide a range of scenarios - then yes we have a gulf of skill between us. Tether and Guardian on the other hand, nothing difficult about keeping those up.

Again, where are the MagCros in high MMR BGs on Xbox NA? Perhaps the class is being carried by add-ons in BGs on PC or something? As much talk as there is of balancing PvE and PvP separately - we should also be honest that Console and PC would best be balanced separately.

I'm just speaking towards whether there should be a mathematical advantage to skills that have a clear kinetic disadvantage. Whether this kinetic disadvantage for Graverobber is balanced or not is debatable and situational. By far it was the leading cause of death in No Procrodiil for me, by far in experienced hands MagCro was the most challenging opponent in No Procrodiil. I had many friendly duels against some other base-game class until a MagCro pranced by and graced us both with their Gravy. Colossus on the other hand, in the full spectrum of scenarios, the kinetic disadvantage is indisputable to me, but if this is a console scrub issue then never mind. For sure when I watch clips of PC the number of Necros far outnumbers what we see on Xbox. As for Blastbones, I would say it has both a kinetic and a mathematical advantage over equivalent skills - when it functions as intended.

Balance shouldn't be that everything is the same grey - but rather that neon blue, neon green, and neon pink are all equally vivid. In my opinion.

Why do you even compare Colossus and Incap ? Why not with Veil of Blades ?
Necro in every form is vastly overturned class. Sorcs and NB doesn't shine as PVP healers so why exceptional PVP healer should be on par with them in terms of damage ?

Consuming Darkness I'd compare with Reanimate, so Necro has a clear advantage over NB in a support Ult. On my server Colossus isn't really very relevant these days since Meteor and Dawny are both much more popular on Necro, but it's a good illustration of a high tooltip with a clumsy delivery.

NB healers can - or used to be able to - do some incredible things in BGs, but, it sure is a rare choice. If I were rolling a healer for Cyro right now I'd definitely pick Necro.

Red99 · July 2021

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If only necro was as powerful as you are making it seem. Maybe I would be having fun playing it if it actually worked like that.
Stamcro can be a bit oppressive, I agree, but mainly because they can use their twohander to get Brutality, a solid gap closer and an execute that their class otherwise has no access too. Magcro has no such option.
Personally I have no problems fighting either magcros or stamcros.

Stamina necro IS the most powerful class if well played and any experienced pvp player can tell u this

Chadak · July 2021

Well, I'm convinced.

Nerf Sorcerers. There's just nothing else to do now.