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CP Backstabber, Fighting Finesse with master at arms is too strong at the moment.
Togal
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Nightblades are 1 shotting everyone, Stam nightblade incaps along with bombers (bombing groups is fine but being able to bomb 1 person and instantly down them in a second even though their spec into tank) are too strong at the moment. Instead of nerfing can zos increase critical resistance back to the way it was, crit dmg is just too strong at the moment.
8
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Rossmann✭✭✭[Snip], you gonna make them nerf already nerfed CP system which is actually funny.
[Edit for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on July 1, 2021 1:26PM19 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds like balance in Cyrodiil is back to normal...😄Edited by Zodiarkslayer on July 1, 2021 1:06PMNo Effort, No Reward?
No Reward, No Effort!4 -
ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
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*Puts on dev glasses*
I read that players think CP is still too strong, we will reduce the power of CP on a future patch. Thanks for your feedback.Edited by ZOS_Volpe on July 1, 2021 1:26PM35 -
Indigogo✭✭✭✭✭Unless there are other factors, true tanks aren't being one shot in my experience. No one above 50k health.
I like the balance right now. The real cancer is tanky players with high damage and sustain. Now they can't have it all, as it should be.
Give it 3 months and I think things will have settled down though, it's just post no proc excitement.
In the mean time, we're gonna go through a tonne of detect pots and learn to adapt by laying down snares and aoe everywhere.3 -
Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well actually this changes make the champion point enabled campaigns much more enjoyable, because in the previous patches you can get all the defensive points and also get all the offensive points, now you need to choose and i am sure people will adapt accordingly since it is easy to counter a sneaky enemy. There are tons of ground abilities, ground crowd control abilities and potions for detection. Personally i use detection potions as a main potion these days.2 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is reasonable in my opinion that a bomber who is stealthed and not detected and comes out of nowhere should be able to one-shot anyone in the game.
Why not run one of the many counters? (flare from alliance skill line, mage light from mage's guild skill line, hunter from fighter's guild skill line, detect pots, and probably more I can't think of off the top of my head.)10 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stop running glass cannons maxed for damage.
Build for crit resistance, the whole point of all the changes is to prevent you from having it all.
Yeah always blame the nightblade. smhEdited by TequilaFire on July 1, 2021 3:32PM10 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
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*Puts on dev glasses*
I read that players think CP is still too strong, we will reduce the power of CP on a future patch. Thanks for your feedback.
Haha, while that is true, that's not OPs fault.
And it's a valid point by OP too, you can make some filthy gank builds now.
And no, I don't mean bomber, bombers are fine. Just out and out snipe/gank buildsEdited by Brrrofski on July 1, 2021 3:37PM1 -
Kadraeus✭✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Nightblades are pretty weak in pvp. You are doing something wrong.
That entirely depends on the player. MY nightblade is weak in pvp, but every other nightblade I've encountered 2 shots me if they're cloaked. I've also seen nightblades survive whole groups of enemy players attacking them. They really aren't weak.
Saying, "this class is weak" or "that class is OP" doesn't work. It's way more complicated than that. Just being that class doesn't make you weak or OP. If that were the case, I could pull off 2-hit stealth kills like so many other nightblades and have a ridiculous amount of health too. When I do it, I'll take like 1/8th of their health and then get killed in 2-3 hits. And if I'm lucky enough to actually do more damage, they'll just heal back to 100% every couple seconds anyway. I have absolutely no clue how I managed the 100 kills in IC achievement.
Heck, just being a werewolf doesn't automatically mean you're OP either. Sure, I'm way more likely to survive as a werewolf in IC than as a nightblade because I can heal and stun (very useful for revealing nightblades when they try to slip away), but I'm not that powerful. I'm basically just a support werewolf when in groups of people since my stun ability is rather useful for my teammates. But if I 1v1 anyone, I have to be really lucky since 90% of the time I lose.
Then you have other werewolves that are able to survive a 3 minute fight with 2 other werewolves and six other players at the same time and somehow win (Not exaggerating. This actually happened).Edited by Kadraeus on July 1, 2021 4:33PM3 -
Parasaurolophus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »Nightblades are pretty weak in pvp. You are doing something wrong.
That entirely depends on the player. MY nightblade is weak in pvp, but every other nightblade I've encountered 2 shots me if they're cloaked. I've also seen nightblades survive whole groups of enemy players attacking them. They really aren't weak.
Saying, "this class is weak" or "that class is OP" doesn't work. It's way more complicated than that. Just being that class doesn't make you weak or OP. If that were the case, I could pull off 2-hit stealth kills like so many other nightblades and have a ridiculous amount of health too. When I do it, I'll take like 1/8th of their health and then get killed in 2-3 hits. And if I'm lucky enough to actually do more damage, they'll just heal back to 100% every couple seconds anyway. I have absolutely no clue how I managed the 100 kills in IC achievement.
Heck, just being a werewolf doesn't automatically mean you're OP either. Sure, I'm way more likely to survive as a werewolf in IC than as a nightblade because I can heal and stun (very useful for revealing nightblades when they try to slip away), but I'm not that powerful. I'm basically just a support werewolf when in groups of people since my stun ability is rather useful for my teammates. But if I 1v1 anyone, I have to be really lucky since 90% of the time I lose.
Then you have other werewolves that are able to survive a 3 minute fight with 2 other werewolves and six other players at the same time and somehow win (Not exaggerating. This actually happened).
You are now saying that the NB are not weak because you yourself cannot resist them. I am saying that a seasoned NB player cannot win with an equally experienced Warden / Necromancer player.PC/EU1 -
Kadraeus✭✭✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »BrownChicken wrote: »Nightblades are pretty weak in pvp. You are doing something wrong.
That entirely depends on the player. MY nightblade is weak in pvp, but every other nightblade I've encountered 2 shots me if they're cloaked. I've also seen nightblades survive whole groups of enemy players attacking them. They really aren't weak.
Saying, "this class is weak" or "that class is OP" doesn't work. It's way more complicated than that. Just being that class doesn't make you weak or OP. If that were the case, I could pull off 2-hit stealth kills like so many other nightblades and have a ridiculous amount of health too. When I do it, I'll take like 1/8th of their health and then get killed in 2-3 hits. And if I'm lucky enough to actually do more damage, they'll just heal back to 100% every couple seconds anyway. I have absolutely no clue how I managed the 100 kills in IC achievement.
Heck, just being a werewolf doesn't automatically mean you're OP either. Sure, I'm way more likely to survive as a werewolf in IC than as a nightblade because I can heal and stun (very useful for revealing nightblades when they try to slip away), but I'm not that powerful. I'm basically just a support werewolf when in groups of people since my stun ability is rather useful for my teammates. But if I 1v1 anyone, I have to be really lucky since 90% of the time I lose.
Then you have other werewolves that are able to survive a 3 minute fight with 2 other werewolves and six other players at the same time and somehow win (Not exaggerating. This actually happened).
You are now saying that the NB are not weak because you yourself cannot resist them. I am saying that a seasoned NB player cannot win with an equally experienced Warden / Necromancer player.
No, I'm literally saying that the class itself is not the sole thing that determines whether a player is weak or OP. It depends on what that individual player's build is, because, of course, not everyone has the exact same build. I mentioned some nightblades being able to survive groups of players in my 3rd sentence, but I included my own experience because it is relevant, and everyone's experiences seem to be oh-so different. However, I'm not basing my entire opinion on my own character. I'm also basing it on what I've observed of other players in many battles, since I try to stay near other players in IC.
And, from what I've seen, there are a mix of nightblades who hit very hard but aren't as resilient, and ones that don't hit quite as hard but are resilient enough to survive 5 players attacking them at once.
Also, my werewolf example specifically mentions a whole group of players attacking one werewolf. I was a werewolf, and so was one other person. If we remove me from the equation, since we already know I'm not that powerful, that still leaves the other werewolf on my team who couldn't kill the enemy werewolf even when backed up by several other allies. That's two of us werewolves that weren't equal to one werewolf even with extra allies. Again, it depends on the player. Maybe "entirely," as I said, isn't true, but implying that one class is weak overall also isn't really true when there's enough freedom to customize your character according to their class. If just being a certain class meant that you'd be weak or OP, I'd perform the same as other characters of my class, which we know isn't the case because my build is different. And, I don't see how I'm an outlier. I highly doubt every single player has the perfect build for their class,1 -
Parasaurolophus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BrownChicken wrote: »BrownChicken wrote: »Nightblades are pretty weak in pvp. You are doing something wrong.
That entirely depends on the player. MY nightblade is weak in pvp, but every other nightblade I've encountered 2 shots me if they're cloaked. I've also seen nightblades survive whole groups of enemy players attacking them. They really aren't weak.
Saying, "this class is weak" or "that class is OP" doesn't work. It's way more complicated than that. Just being that class doesn't make you weak or OP. If that were the case, I could pull off 2-hit stealth kills like so many other nightblades and have a ridiculous amount of health too. When I do it, I'll take like 1/8th of their health and then get killed in 2-3 hits. And if I'm lucky enough to actually do more damage, they'll just heal back to 100% every couple seconds anyway. I have absolutely no clue how I managed the 100 kills in IC achievement.
Heck, just being a werewolf doesn't automatically mean you're OP either. Sure, I'm way more likely to survive as a werewolf in IC than as a nightblade because I can heal and stun (very useful for revealing nightblades when they try to slip away), but I'm not that powerful. I'm basically just a support werewolf when in groups of people since my stun ability is rather useful for my teammates. But if I 1v1 anyone, I have to be really lucky since 90% of the time I lose.
Then you have other werewolves that are able to survive a 3 minute fight with 2 other werewolves and six other players at the same time and somehow win (Not exaggerating. This actually happened).
You are now saying that the NB are not weak because you yourself cannot resist them. I am saying that a seasoned NB player cannot win with an equally experienced Warden / Necromancer player.
No, I'm literally saying that the class itself is not the sole thing that determines whether a player is weak or OP. It depends on what that individual player's build is, because, of course, not everyone has the exact same build. I mentioned some nightblades being able to survive groups of players in my 3rd sentence, but I included my own experience because it is relevant, and everyone's experiences seem to be oh-so different. However, I'm not basing my entire opinion on my own character. I'm also basing it on what I've observed of other players in many battles, since I try to stay near other players in IC.
And, from what I've seen, there are a mix of nightblades who hit very hard but aren't as resilient, and ones that don't hit quite as hard but are resilient enough to survive 5 players attacking them at once.
Also, my werewolf example specifically mentions a whole group of players attacking one werewolf. I was a werewolf, and so was one other person. If we remove me from the equation, since we already know I'm not that powerful, that still leaves the other werewolf on my team who couldn't kill the enemy werewolf even when backed up by several other allies. That's two of us werewolves that weren't equal to one werewolf even with extra allies. Again, it depends on the player. Maybe "entirely," as I said, isn't true, but implying that one class is weak overall also isn't really true when there's enough freedom to customize your character according to their class. If just being a certain class meant that you'd be weak or OP, I'd perform the same as other characters of my class, which we know isn't the case because my build is different. And, I don't see how I'm an outlier. I highly doubt every single player has the perfect build for their class,
In this game, there is no balance between different setups and between different styles of play. We constantly see in pvp that some setups are stronger than others, so I don’t understand what complete freedom in choosing a setup you are talking about. yes you can choose what you like, but that doesn't mean you'll be effective.PC/EU0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nightblades are 1 shotting everyone, Stam nightblade incaps along with bombers (bombing groups is fine but being able to bomb 1 person and instantly down them in a second even though their spec into tank) are too strong at the moment. Instead of nerfing can zos increase critical resistance back to the way it was, crit dmg is just too strong at the moment.
You're not wrong. The amount of burst damage they are putting out is absurd. But this is a problem generally with the game itself (not Nightlbades in particular). Even with max resistance you go down before you know what hit you. But that seems to be the kind of combat the developer in charge prefers, with everyone dying in micro seconds, no strategy or enjoyable combat, just a slaughter house where the only fun to be had is for those who for some reason or another just enjoy getting kills on real life opponents. The actual gameplay is secondary, and anything that might allow you to live for more than a few seconds and actually have some back and forth (you know a fun fight) is nerfed into oblivion. CC/splat. CC/splat. CC/Splat. What glorious PvP it is. And people wonder why PvP is so toxic? What kind of people do you think combat like this is going to attract?
Which also just goes to show why PvP is dying. Even during the main PvP event where people are encouraged to do battlegrounds for event tickets, I literally saw the same people in every battleground I did today. lol But good luck fighting the good fight. I've about given up on it. It's obvious to me at this stage they want a slaughterfest and everyone dropping like flies. So the only way this is going to change is if someone else with a different vision for PvP is put in charge. Otherwise we're ______ in the wind. It is what it is.Edited by Jeremy on July 1, 2021 6:13PM2 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a Ravenwatch denizen I am glad not to have to deal with this particular CP imbalance.
It is definitely a questionable design decision though to provide massive Critical Damage amps via CP but then to only provide a meager 660 Critical Resistance via that same system.
The Critical Resistance star should equal the sum total of all of the Critical Damage stars otherwise you are intentionally tilting the playing field in favor of the gankers.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »As a Ravenwatch denizen I am glad not to have to deal with this particular CP imbalance.
It is definitely a questionable design decision though to provide massive Critical Damage amps via CP but then to only provide a meager 660 Critical Resistance via that same system.
The Critical Resistance star should equal the sum total of all of the Critical Damage stars otherwise you are intentionally tilting the playing field in favor of the gankers.
This game has always been tilted toward gankers. No MMO I've ever played has catered to damage builds as much as this one does. So I'm not surprised.
What they need to do is hire 3 different developers, one who plays a tank exclusively, a healer exclusively, and a DPS exclusively - and put those 3 in charge of PvP and combat generally. Such an approach would help this game a lot, because it suffers a lot from being obsessed with damage dealing.0 -
hundergrn✭✭✭Increasing Crit resist will not help you against a stealth/cloaked hit by a Nightblade. Cloak guarantees a crit as long as they are not detected. Nerfing the most nerfed class in ESO will not help you from getting '1-shot' by a NB.
NB have a burst window to be viable in PvP. Take them out of that window and they go down quick. Stealth has so many countermeasures its not even funny. They are relegated to being stealth burst or harassers that are annoying to kill. Rarely do they have the viability to be both tanky and melt you down burst.
This isn't an issue about CP backstabber, Fighting Finesse, and Master-at-arms being too powerful. This isn't about needing more crit resist (cloak guarantees a crit as long as you are not detected). This is about what Nightblades have left to be viable. In group PvP they don't have many options. Solo they require a string a skills to burst someone/a group down quickly.
There is a list of other classes that are much easier to be viable, more flexible, and more annoying to deal with. NB is something people are no longer use too. People don't consider the counters, the risk of traveling tight or alone. Using their toolkit for PvP like this is a hell of a lot easier to work around than a pack of roaming werewolves or heavy met imo.
If they are an issue to you or others, bring an AOE like caltrops or flare. Stay spaced. NB are easier to kill than DK, Streak sorcs, Jesus beam-jav-jab templars. Easier to survive than Stack an entire bar for crystal frag sorcs, snipe followed by 10-15k poison arrow builds, Jump-stun-hold inplace n breath death resist dks....
TLDR: Highly doubt its just 1-shot by Nightblades that is killing you and everyone else. CP isnt the cause and neither is NB a long standing issue.5 -
Parasaurolophus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As someone who has been playing on NB for 7 years, I declare that only beginners / inexperienced players die from one-shot combos. Other combos (!) Like dawn + Subterranean, crystal + wrath + curse, leap + dots + executionier do no less damage and, as a rule, it is almost impossible to escape from them, especially from the AoE combo. The game has long been dominated by tank builds. Have you forgotten how strong the guardian and necromancer are now?PC/EU2 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Here's an Idea: play in no-CP instead of demanding that the game cater to you.2 -
Malpheus_Prime✭✭✭We should create a padded room server for these types of issues. Just go in there and don't ever hurt yourself kids.3
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Merforum✭✭✭✭✭
But I think it is because of your title, it looks like you are asking for nerfs, maybe the title should be 'Crit resist buff in CP should be buffed/doubled to counter the insane damage meta'.2 -
Togal✭✭✭✭
But I think it is because of your title, it looks like you are asking for nerfs, maybe the title should be 'Crit resist buff in CP should be buffed/doubled to counter the insane damage meta'.
my bad didn't think through the title properly, thanks for the heads up mate.0 -
Togal✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Stop running glass cannons maxed for damage.
Build for crit resistance, the whole point of all the changes is to prevent you from having it all.
Yeah always blame the nightblade. smh
I'm running a mixed build of damage and resistances. 30k resistances, 3.6k crit resistance, 5.5k wpn dmg, 18k pene, 30k health and I still get a huge chunk taken out by 1 nightblade. Even the 1vXers of the game say its a problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgQqNCydYW4 0 -
NylAR✭✭✭✭Nightblades are 1 shotting everyone, Stam nightblade incaps along with bombers (bombing groups is fine but being able to bomb 1 person and instantly down them in a second even though their spec into tank) are too strong at the moment. Instead of nerfing can zos increase critical resistance back to the way it was, crit dmg is just too strong at the moment.
Problem isn't the CPs, it's the combo of balorg and saxhleel champion combined with vampire abilities. Some NBs then slap on either a high damage proc set or take more crit and weapon damage (or penetration). I'll let you figure that one out.
Getting hit by incap while having 8k weapon damage and nearly 100% increased crit damage generates some ridiculous numbers.
Like 1 shotting potatoes with relentless from range with 40k+ crits.Edited by NylAR on July 2, 2021 6:07AM0
