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Should pvp balance be separated from pve?
francesinhalover
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I know Zenimax really doesn't want to do this due to work load , I believe it would fix a LOT of headaches we have been having with balancing changes that either hurt pvp or pve.
what do you guys think?
Edited by francesinhalover on June 22, 2021 10:04PM what do you guys think?
I am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!
Should pvp balance be separated from pve? 105 votes
Yes - Skills in pvp should be different than pve
58%
61 votes
Yes - Use a global pvp passive to balance pvp a bit better
20%
22 votes
Yes - however i have a better idea
3%
4 votes
No
17%
18 votes
0
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ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭Won't change anything and nerfs will still be handed out because some things are OP by their very design.
Example?
See players complaining about Diamond's Victory - no one PvPing cares.
No one using a hybrid -- who the set was actually for by the way, actually cares either if it gets nerfed or not because it's unusable on a hybrid.
You also won't get the buffs you want, because ZOS is not as naive as people think.
Example of that? Wardens wanting all of their damage skills to do ice damage
Even if PvE and PvP were separately balanced, it wouldn't happen because ZOS is not naive enough to forget that ice damage procs multiple debuffs, warden passives, dragurkin, etc. and seeing it would tilt PvE balance too much and increase group DPS (which they keep attempting to nerf).
Other example is people calling for Frostbite set to be buffed, see above...In the right condition that set can be made to be OP, just like Elf Bane. I'm surprised ZOS ignored PTS calls and didn't overbuff the set. I was lying in wait for patch notes to be a Contrarian but didn't get to there...
Either way, that's just a few examples..more can be found that break the narrative that PvP and PvE being balanced together is why balance is bad. Balance is also heavily subjective.1 -
Greasytengu✭✭✭✭✭NoPeople think balancing is all done for the benefit for PvP, but PvE needs balance too.
For example:
4 man dungeons are designed to require 2 DD, 1 tank and 1 healer. If people are doing it with 3 DD and a tank or 4 DD, then that is an issue.
Just because roles are not competing with each other does not mean everything is balanced, and I believe much of the overall DPS nerfs from the new CP system and the nerfs to some Tanking sets were meant to fix some of that imbalance." I nEeD HeAlInG!!! "3 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoIt already is. Say hello to Battle Spirit.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think you answered your own question: ZOS has the ability to separate PVP and PVE balance through Battlespirit, but they usually don't because of workload. It's a lot easier to constantly shake up the meta every update when you can hit two birds with one nerfhammer.2 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd rather separate somewhere else, endgame from... everything else.
For me, the problem isn't PvE or PvP... but the numbers game played in endgame that leads to nerfs for us all.1 -
Ken_Koerperich✭✭✭You forgot the choice of:
DIRGAF about PvP.....
Not to be mean, I'm only going in there to get the "PvE" content & the 2 skills I want, then I'm out...0 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Yes - Skills in pvp should be different than pveGreasytengu wrote: »People think balancing is all done for the benefit for PvP, but PvE needs balance too.
still missed point
when want to blaance pvp then why it should affect pve where this shouldnt? and then if need to balance pve then why balance this to be affecting pvp where it shouldnt, dont need?
it works both ways, not only single way as you think how community here "think" about balance being only pvp thing5 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - Skills in pvp should be different than pveIt already is. Say hello to Battle Spirit.
Thats not quite accurate, there is a huge difference to balancing skills and sets for a sector of a game vs flat % reductions that realistically dont change much (especially for those of us who play pvp right now)
This is why the second option in the poll is a bit silly. Battle spirit has served its purpose but we require something a little more refined and not wide sweeping, different sets and classes require different levels of attention based on their state. Note that "state" is not a negative nor positive term, just merely refers to where the class is at, at that point.
OT: I voted yes but it shouldn't be as specific as "different" some skills need their own thing for PvP or changes in terms of how they scale or interact but they dont need to be COMPLETELY different, they just need their own PvP variant. So "while in PvP" etcEdited by xeNNNNN on June 22, 2021 11:08PMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.1 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes - Skills in pvp should be different than pveIf they think keeping PvE and PvP exactly equal all the time somehow *REDUCES* their workload, they should re-examine exactly how many set and skill changes they make per quarter which are *ENTIRELY* due to a problem in only one or the other environment.
It's double work up front, or triple work changing things already released + pissing off half (or more) of your customers for something they don't get affected by in the first place ... and which always has unintended consequences.Edited by Fennwitty on June 22, 2021 11:17PMPC NA6 -
Dagre2✭✭✭only if they're going to bother with actual balance otherwise they might as well just leave things as is and stop balancing for pvp at all. i'm good with proper balance, but i'm also good with pure chaos. as long as they choose one.1
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No"Yes - Use a global pvp passive to balance pvp a bit better"
I mean, it's statements like this why I'm scared that ZOS gives people a voice that could potentially affect the game. The "Global PvP passive" exists already. It's called Battle Spirit. It reduces our damage and healing/health regen for example. They could use this to modify anything else that needs balancing between the two. Nothing else needs to be done.2 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes - Use a global pvp passive to balance pvp a bit betterOf course it should be balanced seperately.
There's only so many copies of the same crit sets they can release for PVE DD's, as to not ruin the delicate PVP balance, before the game becomes stale, streamlined and utterly pointless.
Any resemblence of diversity and spice are quickly nerfed to the ground like with Mythics such as Thrassians for spell dmg, monster helmets for procs, nerf to light attacks and any other form that diverse from the good ol' crit stacking.
Forget any interesting Tanking sets whose lineup hasn't been updated since Summerset 3 chapter's ago, still sporting the same boring 4 buff sets on a rotation. The only real discussion here is "Should I use Alkosh this patch or not" It's a snooze fest.
If they aren't careful with how they balance PVE in the future I fear it will become an utterly stale copy paste experience.
Edited by Grandchamp1989 on June 23, 2021 7:45AM1 -
Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭Yes - however i have a better ideaIt could. If the best pve sets are from trials, mainly due to Minor Slayer, the could introduce an equivalent to pvp sets working only on players.
Just like the Witcher - one sword for monsters, other for humans
Edited by Ippokrates on June 23, 2021 8:41AM2 -
Curious_Death✭✭✭✭✭Yes - Skills in pvp should be different than pveIt already is. Say hello to Battle Spirit.
ahahahah
i recommend you to back to school and learn math.
when healing is -60% and dmg -50% = what rly change ? NOTHING.
its even harder to survive in pvp... but skills works the same... this is PVE balance thats cuts and throw into pvp.
I played the game where pvp is SERIOUSLY separated from PVE = THE SKILLS HAVE TWO VERSIONS.
PVE = focused on RAW dmg
PVP = focused on mobility / survive with a little flavour of dmg.
this way u wont needs to change healing or dmg by stupid battle spirit... just change all insta healing into HoT and lower numbers but add some surv buffs into it - like speed.1 -
francesinhalover✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - Use a global pvp passive to balance pvp a bit betterIppokrates wrote: »It could. If the best pve sets are from trials, mainly due to Minor Slayer, the could introduce an equivalent to pvp sets working only on players.
Just like the Witcher - one sword for monsters, other for humans
That would be awesome manI am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!0 -
Phaedryn✭✭✭Yes - Skills in pvp should be different than pveANY game with both should be balancing them separately.2
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Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoMade it this far. No going back now so might as well adapt and accept.PvP needs more love.3 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes - Skills in pvp should be different than pveOr not.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.0