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Imperial City melee magblade build

fred4
fred4
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https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=345334

This is the happiest I've been with my melee magblade in a long time. Not because this is the strongest iteration ever, but because I'm making melee weapons work again - you kind of have to with the proc scaling this patch - and everything clicks into place reasonably well.

I'm calling this an Imperial City build, because I find there are some differences between boss farming and PvP, and this build caters to both. More generally it is an open world build that I will run in Cyrodiil as well. I have no plans for BGs, so that will remain untested.

Some people say that melee magblade is not viable, that it is suicide. Yet this is a common playstyle for stamblades. So what gives? Stamblades with identical sustain and playability tend to have more damage, resulting in shorter attack windows. They also tend to run medium armor, giving them slightly better resistances and they have better dodge roll sustain. How can you compete as a melee magblade?

Having played both recently, I think there is something that people don't fully appreciate: Cloak sustain and what it does for you. As this is my first and only MMO, my playstyle evolved from wanting to avoid PvP in the beginning. I wanted perma-cloak sustain. Over time I began to take this for granted, while always conceding that it was merely nice to have and that I was gimping my performance by oversustaining. I do not believe that anymore. When you're used to perma-cloaking and you switch to stamblade, the difference is stark. Can you make stamblade work? Of course you can. However, because you cannot cloak as casually as a magblade and be at the speed cap while doing so, even with Darloc Brae, you are - comparatively speaking - constantly in situations where you are discovered by NPCs or by players - and executed for it. If not, then you have probably learnt to be more circumspect than I am. Perma-cloak equates to complete freedom of movement. It lets you run around NPCs and through players unnoticed most of the time. Pumping cloak every second while making wild direction changes can trick zergs that use AOE, anyone who isn't using outright NB detection skills. Crouch is not nearly as effective to keep you hidden. In particular, if you aggroed an NPC, mixing cloak and crouch doesn't cut it anymore. As soon as you stop cloaking, you get exposed. Point number 1, if you want to take anything away from my experience, is that perma-cloak sustain changes the defensive performance of your nightblade dramatically for the better. If you think melee magblade is not viable, then IMO one of the reasons may be that you never fully committed to cloak sustain, the kind of build where you never run out of magicka when you keep cloaking. Magicka near zero due to combat? I can still cloak! Is it the only way to make melee magblade work? I don't know. I don't use Shadow Image. I can only tell you that, if you try my build, don't gimp the sustain.

Hand in hand with cloak goes speed. You must fully commit to speed as well. No ifs, no buts. Cloak gets much more effective the faster you are. This means Wild Hunt, all Swift jewelry, Race Against Time and Concealed Weapon. Gaze of Sithis? Nope. No room for that. Snow Treaders? Nope. Malacath? Nope. Torc of Tonal Constancy? Good grief, nope. Speed on a nightblade helps you avoid damage and indirectly helps you manage your sustain. With all of these measures and CP, a cloaked magblade is at the speed cap, while out of combat, even without Race Against Time. This is very useful not just to get away, but also for the pursuit of enemies. There is no gap closer in the build. I find I don't need it.

Lastly you need stamina sustain. Out of all defensive sets and measures you could possibly take, nothing beats it. This is the reason stamblades are stronger. Dodge rolls. I know that some classes make do with a large-ish stamina pool. For example they build with Sugar Skulls. This has never truly worked for me. Maybe on a high elf. On a Breton I prefer stamina recovery. Shields are out the window, by the way. Yes, I use Healing Ward, but that doesn't just scale with magicka, it scales with spell damage too. It's a Caluurion build. You need the spell damage.

These pillars, magicka sustain for perma-cloak, highest possible speed, and stamina sustain are not things you can change without substantially changing what the build is. You will then probably be one of the people who says melee magblade does not work. Either that or you're very adept with Shadow Image and are making it work a different way. Or you have really high expectations. I'm not claiming that single-target non-bombing melee magblade is meta. Trading speed for Shadow Image would incidentally also make it a different build. Shadow Image anchors you. Speed and Shadow Image aren't the greatest mix. My kind of speed makes Shadow Image pretty redundant. The build is about running, about constant movement. I can't stand still. If you're more disposed towards stakeouts or bombing, this is not for you.

With regard to sustain, it is worth noting that ZOS have re-instated the out-of-combat sustain contribution of the Atronach mundus stone. Breton, Atronach mundus and Hissmir Fisheye Rye are all mandatory to make the build work as intended. It would be nice if we could use Smoked Bear Haunch, but the sustain does not suffice. Absent the health from that and absent stamina from food, you have to build with all Hakeijo enchants. It's the most stat-efficient way to build when you're using drinks.

Although I use Caluurion and bursting from cloak is part of the game plan, I would not exactly call this a ganking build. This is a balanced build that can get in and out of trouble. It cannot brawl like a stamden, but it aims to mix it up as much as it can. An outright ganker aims to one-shot, but may get easily killed when the one-shot fails. It typically has to pick targets carefully and may get overwhelmed in complex AvA fights, for example because they get discovered by a streaking sorc and, then, have zero defense. Such is not the case here. This build has offense and defense.

Juggernaut is the best set I have yet tried for the back bar. You don't aim to proc it, but it lets you push harder and helps save you when you go too far. To that end I also use the new "From the Brink" CP star and I am trying the new Immolator Char monster mask instead of Balorgh. The latter is really hard to say no to, though, for the pen and the damage and the buff to Caluurion. On the other hand we're using a low cost ultimate. The blue CP allocation (no crit resistance from CP) mandated all Impenetrable gear in my book, by the way.

I've talked a lot about the things I view as non-negotiable for making the build what it is. Here are some negotiable things:
  • Dual Wield versus 2H. The latter has some interesting passives, notably the stam regen after a kill.
  • Swords versus maces. I just don't have any Caluurion maces to try.
  • Enchants are flexible and still subject to experimentation.
  • The trait of the resto staff. Mine is actually Defending right now, but switching to ranged mode is so lacklustre.
You have two main options for burst, Soul Harvest into Concealed or Merciless into Concealed. In both cases the initial skill is delayed by 400ms, which means Concealed may hit in the same GCD and it will ideally stun and Caluurion will hit at the same time. You then either spam Concealed or switch to the resto bar. If the target survives the initial burst, they may back away or they may counterattack. In either case you should now be on the resto bar, establishing some healing with Swallow Soul or spamming Impale. If they attack you they may be surprised to find you suddenly becoming very tanky when Juggernaut kicks in. I particularly like this against attrition style builds, e.g. templars. You can risk staying on the attack against some of them. If the fight goes on, you will proc Merciless and try to burst them again with that. Caluurion being only on one bar also helps you burst.

If there is a weakness, it's that Healing Ward isn't really good enough. The Juggernaut heal has been nerfed this patch. You can still be in execute range and find it hard to bar swap and get away. Mostly that means you are pressured by multiple opponents, though.

I prefer Soul Harvest over Incap, because I like the ulti-gen. This is another notable difference I found, compared to my stamblade. Soul Harvest is almost always ready, at least if you finish off people with Concealed or Merciless.

I'm happy the stats on both bars are balanced. It's neat. Juggernaut provides a health bonus that more or less matches the shadow skill bonus from the other bar. Double-barring Inner Light is a bit of a pain, but crit is one of the few things the build has going for it. The resto bar is the ranged option against players and the preferred way to engage Imperial City bosses. That's why Swallow Soul and Impale are there. Not having the crit on that bar would be missed and Inner Light allows using my favorite two potions, which are Spell Damage / Detection / Magicka (1v1) and Immovability / Detection / Magicka (AvA). Your bread and butter target as a perma-cloaking magblade are stamblades. You stumble across them all the time and that's why I have detection potions permanently slotted. You drink them just before engaging.

Finally, I am not a vampire for role-playing reasons. That should be a consideration, though.
Edited by fred4 on June 20, 2021 8:46PM
PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • Lughlongarm
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    I don't play a NB but I really enjoyed the read this thread, Forum needs more threads like this one.

    I find ESO to be at its finest when you find a build that is completely yours, everything about it is tailored to your own preferences and play style and it actually works.

    Nice one.
  • divnyi
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    Did you try defensive posture? Sustain it provides if you learn to keep it up is insane, exchange happens at 2-to-1 rate.
  • Alucardo
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    Really interesting build, and thanks for sharing! It looks like Torugs pact has a similar 3 item stat sheet to Juggernaut, and it's only a couple of traits, so it may be easier (and cheaper) to get your hands on that. Might have to try this one out, because the typical high magicka, slow, ranged magblade is pretty annoying to play right now. This looks fun.

    Edited by Alucardo on June 21, 2021 3:18AM
  • fred4
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    Alucardo wrote: »
    Really interesting build, and thanks for sharing! It looks like Torugs pact has a similar 3 item stat sheet to Juggernaut, and it's only a couple of traits, so it may be easier (and cheaper) to get your hands on that. Might have to try this one out, because the typical high magicka, slow, ranged magblade is pretty annoying to play right now. This looks fun.
    Thanks! Most importantly this is a tried and tested build, not something I cooked up overnight. Versions of this are what I actually play, and have played, long term.

    I've been using Juggernaut for some time. Torug's Pact would give the resto bar some much needed kick, although I always found it a lacklustre set. You're going to weave light attacks. Your effective enchant cooldown with an Infused weapon will be 2 seconds regardless of Torug's Pact or not. You're only getting the 45% extra enchant damage. An infused Prismatic enchant will be especially useful in IC, however not all players are werewolves or vampires.

    I was using destro / resto with a different skill layout in the past, which kept me entirely on the destro bar during attack. Juggernaut is a funny proc. If you get bursted really hard, it may fail to proc. On the other hand it may get procced for no apparent reason, for example when an NPC attacks you. I have a suspicion it procs when you get CCd in addition to at low health. Now that I am dividing my attack phase between the two bars, it procs much more often. This better lends itself to using it offensively. It's 20K resistances. You will feel squishier in Torug's Pact.

    Don't expect toooo much in terms of performance out of this. I have incapped people for 18K on my stamblade. I have not yet seen those sort of numbers on this build with a destro staff, although this new dual wield iteration pushes damage higher. Around 7K Caluurion on squishy people in CP, but I believe skill damage is still lower than on a typical stamblade.

    It may be possible to do some clever things with Swallow Soul. Hitting NPCs with it generates PvE strength heals for 10 seconds. So does hitting a sorc's Ball of Lightning! I've seen 4K healing ticks in PvP from that. Perhaps hitting pets or the Engine Guardian will do the same. This is where having the two spammables may pay off, e.g. if you attack the NPC or pet with Swallow Soul, but the player with Concealed Weapon.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • fred4
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    By the way, I'm thinking of double-barring Soul Harvest. More options - Temporal Guard - would be more fun, but better ulti-gen helps Balorgh. Having Impale on the resto bar means there will be killing blows from that bar.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • Alucardo
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Alucardo wrote: »
    Really interesting build, and thanks for sharing! It looks like Torugs pact has a similar 3 item stat sheet to Juggernaut, and it's only a couple of traits, so it may be easier (and cheaper) to get your hands on that. Might have to try this one out, because the typical high magicka, slow, ranged magblade is pretty annoying to play right now. This looks fun.
    Thanks! Most importantly this is a tried and tested build, not something I cooked up overnight. Versions of this are what I actually play, and have played, long term.

    I've been using Juggernaut for some time. Torug's Pact would give the resto bar some much needed kick, although I always found it a lacklustre set. You're going to weave light attacks. Your effective enchant cooldown with an Infused weapon will be 2 seconds regardless of Torug's Pact or not. You're only getting the 45% extra enchant damage. An infused Prismatic enchant will be especially useful in IC, however not all players are werewolves or vampires.

    Oh, my bad the build just shows you're using 3 pieces of Juggernaut and I figured Torug's was the same 3pc, but it's just the buggy website xD
    Yeah that makes way more sense
  • fred4
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    Alucardo wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    Alucardo wrote: »
    Really interesting build, and thanks for sharing! It looks like Torugs pact has a similar 3 item stat sheet to Juggernaut, and it's only a couple of traits, so it may be easier (and cheaper) to get your hands on that. Might have to try this one out, because the typical high magicka, slow, ranged magblade is pretty annoying to play right now. This looks fun.
    Thanks! Most importantly this is a tried and tested build, not something I cooked up overnight. Versions of this are what I actually play, and have played, long term.

    I've been using Juggernaut for some time. Torug's Pact would give the resto bar some much needed kick, although I always found it a lacklustre set. You're going to weave light attacks. Your effective enchant cooldown with an Infused weapon will be 2 seconds regardless of Torug's Pact or not. You're only getting the 45% extra enchant damage. An infused Prismatic enchant will be especially useful in IC, however not all players are werewolves or vampires.

    Oh, my bad the build just shows you're using 3 pieces of Juggernaut and I figured Torug's was the same 3pc, but it's just the buggy website xD
    Yeah that makes way more sense
    If you're using Firefox + NoScript addon or something similar, be sure to allow (some of) the JavaScript and the web site may work better.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • fred4
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    In case the web site is acting up for others, the build is:

    2x Balorgh (or I am trying Immolator Charr)
    5x Caluurion front bar (dual wield)
    5x Juggernaut back bar (resto)
    1x Trainee
    1x Wild Hunt

    1x heavy (Juggernaut chest) + 6x light. 6x light is needed for the all-important cloak / mag sustain.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • divnyi
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    Cool build overall, but is 1.6k stam recovery really needed? Can you go with max magicka + magrecovery drink and well-fitted on armors if you want dodgerolls so badly?
  • gariondavey
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    Nice write up, Fred. Was wondering why siphoning attacks can't be swapped with impale and then that opens up another skill back bar instead of another inner light.
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
  • divnyi
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    Nice write up, Fred. Was wondering why siphoning attacks can't be swapped with impale and then that opens up another skill back bar instead of another inner light.

    Passive magica pool bonus for slotting siphoning line skill.
  • divnyi
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    Can also try Elemental Weapon on the backbar as spammable, it will double as prebuff for close range combo.
    Edit: ah wait you lose siphoning bonus then :/
    Edited by divnyi on June 21, 2021 12:13PM
  • fred4
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    divnyi wrote: »
    Cool build overall, but is 1.6k stam recovery really needed?
    Yes. Bear in mind this is with Continuous Attack.
    Can you go with max magicka + magrecovery drink and well-fitted on armors if you want dodgerolls so badly?
    This would lead to:

    (A) Less magicka sustain from Ghastly Eye Bowl than from Hissmir Fisheye Rye. The build is already on the limit, as far as I'm concerned. You have to take into account:
    • Atronach mundus buffs out-of-combat mag regen (as well as in-combat).
    • Drinks buff out-of-combat mag regen (as well as in-combat).
    If you start downgrading the mag recovery from drinks, at some point perma-cloaking will no longer be possible. More to the point, you will no longer be able to keep Merciless Resolve and Race Against Time (crit bonus) refreshed, without running down your magicka, while you are cloaking and waiting for your opportunity to pounce.

    (B) Well-Fitted would lead to a reduction in crit resist, which would probably lead to getting crit resist from CP, which would lead to giving up the "From The Brink" CP or crit damage CP. Not something I want to do.

    (C) Yes, you do need to dodge roll (and break free) so badly. 15K is not a large stamina pool. Whichever way you slice it, stamina sustain feels better than anything else. A lack of stamina sustain takes the fun out of the build, because you will either die or your will learn to disengage from a fight earlier and then lurk around in cloak while your stamina comes back or you'll have to run meditate or something like that.

    At the end of the day, there aren't many food choices. Ghastly Eye Bowl is not bad on the magicka front. It's not far behind Fisheye Rye, though it is behind. Your stam sustain without Hissmir Fisheye Rye will drop to below 1K. That's unacceptable territory for me personally. If you look at other foods, such as Bear Haunch, the stam regen from that would probably be enough, but not the mag regen. A food with a lot of mag regen, half the amount stam regen and, let's say, 2K magicka would probably be ideal, but such a food does not exists. Also, the 1.6K stam recovery looks so high, because I turned on Continuous Attack in UESP, which you don't always have.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • fred4
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    divnyi wrote: »
    Can also try Elemental Weapon on the backbar as spammable, it will double as prebuff for close range combo.
    Edit: ah wait you lose siphoning bonus then :/
    Yes, indeed. Swallow Soul is also just a heal. You need that.

    I have tried an Elemental Weapon combo in the past. I didn't like it all that much. It's not a fast-paced skill. I didn't like the wind-up time. You can just lead with a heavy attack from cloak instead. I suppose Swapping out Merciless for Elemental Weapon is a possibility, but basically there isn't the bar space. I would not use it as a backbar spammable. Not with a resto staff and not in place of Swallow Soul. Swallow Soul gives you the healing you need for IC boss farming.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • fred4
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    divnyi wrote: »
    Nice write up, Fred. Was wondering why siphoning attacks can't be swapped with impale and then that opens up another skill back bar instead of another inner light.

    Passive magica pool bonus for slotting siphoning line skill.
    Yeah, this.

    To be honest, I think builds play better with a clearly defined back bar and front bar, which is not the case here. I used to have that in the past. My ideal cloaking bar has Concealed on it for the speed, together with all the skills I cast in cloak. Those include Siphoning Attacks, Race Against Time and, ideally, a heal that would not uncloak me. Stamblade has that in Rally. For magblade, such a heal doesn't even exist.

    The requirement to slot Concealed + Cloak on the same bar for the speed has always felt awkward to me. It makes that skill bar rather cramped. On the other hand it does make sense to use Impale with a ranged weapon. People retreat when low health. Switching to ranged attacks for execution works well, although that's mostly true against bad players. Good players recover quickly. It would be better to have Impale on the main bar and not have an awkward bar swap at the end of your combo. Both approaches have merit, though. As it stands Impale finds the most use during IC boss farming and when zerging, e.g. firing into a group from range.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • fred4
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    fred4 wrote: »
    At the end of the day, there aren't many food choices. Ghastly Eye Bowl is not bad on the magicka front. It's not far behind Fisheye Rye, though it is behind. Your stam sustain without Hissmir Fisheye Rye will drop to below 1K. That's unacceptable territory for me personally. If you look at other foods, such as Bear Haunch, the stam regen from that would probably be enough, but not the mag regen. A food with a lot of mag regen, half the amount stam regen and, let's say, 2K magicka would probably be ideal, but such a food does not exists. Also, the 1.6K stam recovery looks so high, because I turned on Continuous Attack in UESP, which you don't always have.
    Another way of looking at this is that you don't care about magicka anymore, this patch. You care about health for the Juggernaut heal. You care about spell damage (and pen) for the Caluurion proc. You care about Major Sorcery. Before CP 2.0 you got +20% magicka from CP. This would stack with the NB Siphoning bonus (8%) and Inner Light (7%). You got more bang for the buck by stacking magicka than from stacking spell damage with Major Sorcery. Those days are gone. CP 2.0 only gives you flat buffs. This makes it such that you want to get your sustain from food. Getting stats from food is not great anymore, if it leads you to getting sustain from elsewhere, e.g. by trading away weapon or spell damage from jewelry enchants, from the sets you wear, or (to a lesser extent, because Atronach and Serpent are very good) from your mundus stone. Get your sustain from food and mundus. This has been true for perma-cloaking magblade for a long time, because those are the only things that buff out-of-combat magicka regen. These days that's also true in general. I find that I build for smaller resource pools and more weapon / spell damage on other classes too. The only reason not to do so is on a shielding build.
    PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
    PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)
  • NagualV
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    OP, I like your build and write-up.

    I'm also of the opinion that speed (wild hunt + swift) really helps make cloak better. I've tried a couple of other mythics and I still come back to wild hunt. Too good on magblade, for my playstyle at least.

  • Kharner
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    Awesome write up. I like seeing builds like this using sets that aren't considered "meta" necessarily. I think there's enough viable sets around that you can make really interesting combos that can absolutely work well.

    I am also in agreement that speed is a NB's greatest defense for both magicka, and stam. I am in the process of making a build using Jailbreaker/Spriggan/Balorgh with all speedy enchants to see how it plays. I'm hoping its enough speed to not need wild hunt so I can keep the burst potential of Balorgh
    Edited by Kharner on June 21, 2021 9:03PM
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