Panther fang has two issues that need to be addressed before release.

StabbityDoom · June 2021

Housing devs, zos monetization crew, et al:

I say this with respect but Pantherfang is conceptually deeply flawed within the constraints of our current system.

Without question, this house needs a configurable entrance. The house is bigger than Leyawiin (EDIT: originally I had meant buildable space, volume of it, including above etc. I'm possibly wrong on that, the place is still hyyyyyuge)...and some people just want to use the fort, or the battlements. Therefore as a visitor you have to know your way around it, where the build is, and then continue through what appears to be an empty home until you get to the part the person built in. Letting you configure which of the three (chapel, fort, or courtyard) is something that I think is doable and an elegant solution to the problems of it and future homes of this size. Let’s be honest, big houses aren’t going anywhere. So let’s deal with the problem now. If you don’t know what I mean, check out stone eagle airie. Maybe @lovathy on eu’s. She like many others just used the outside, and if you didn’t know it, you’d likely just leave and miss a spectacular airship.

Secondly. Are you serious? 700 items for a house bigger than the main city? Alright. Fine, given that from the looks of it, some people at zos are taking the item limit increases off the table, I am going to respect that as I appreciate all you *do* give us. So a compromise? a previous suggestion that was bought up during the release of hall of the lunar champion. And a benefit for zos, too.

Make each of the three sections their own zones with 700 items each. Not the most desirable solution for us, but we know that’s the compromise and it would work. Secondly, imagine now what zos could charge for a triple house, essentially.

Think about it. It’s a money maker. That’s how you pitch it to those who don’t want to spend the time or other resources adding this stuff. I’m hearing people already saying they are passing with the current restraints. Given house gifting, even that price would be within reach for many if the problems were solved.

@ZOS_GinaBruno if you don’t mind, could you pass this along to those with decision making power in these issues?

Fellow housing geeks, if you agree, please tag those who have any power with this (I have no idea who) as Gina is often super busy.

With respect,

Stabbitydoom

bluebird · June 2021

I do absolutely agree with the general 'furnishing slots are not enough for the giant houses you keep releasing' sentiment, as do almost all of us I think! 👍 Splitting the interior and exterior cells into separate instances, which has been brought up as a possible solution for HotLC and even earlier, would be a good general solution (though it may work less effectively for Pantherfang since it's so interconnected).

But I kinda have to defend Pantherfang, because it isn't really worse than previous houses, and I think the devs went out of their way to make it better in fact. Compared to the volume, surface area, or whatever metric we use for size, Grand Topal is still humongous, and the Varlaisvea Ayleid ruins are also huge. Players have often complained of badly laid-out houses where they can't pick which areas to furnish since they need to go through subsequent rooms to progress, but I think the devs really listened to us with Pantherfang.

For people who only wanted to build at the upper pools of Varlaisvea, they had to go through the whole grounds, through the building and up the stairs.

Meanwhile in PfC the tunnel area has a direct entrance to the Chapel, also into the Castle itself, as well as into the gardens which in turn offer a second (the main) entrance to the Chapel and Castle. So PfC is an amazingly modular and optionally laid-out home that deserves credit imho, even better than Stone Eagle Aerie (which also had several exits and potential paths / areas to be locked off, even for outlier cases like someone only wanting to build an airship in the garden section).

The issue really is the placement of the entry which is extremely odd (since we are only able to enter the house by boat). If the entrance was in the garden (which does have a locked useless door that should lead somewhere to Blackmarsh) players would have a more immediate path towards all parts of the house. Or even if the entry boat was at the garden dock (which leads nowhere except a few waterfalls) that would have given a shorter access to the main grounds than having to go through the tunnels or the Chapel (but it would still be right next to the tunnels for people who prefer that pathway). Alas, I don't think it will be changed. But an entry leading through an unwanted area was a hot topic with Hakkvild's High Hall too, and I think that's more of an entry problem not a size problem.

As for who would be best to tag to bring it to ZOS's attention, I don't think they read the forums very often, but we could try if any of the mods could please convey this feedback thread to the devs:
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker @ZOS_Adrikoth

redspecter23 · June 2021

I have to agree with both of these points. My first thought after previewing the house was "this is the entrance?" You enter the house to be met with a door essentially right away. I'd love configurable entrances in all houses if that's ever a thing they can add. It would at least help with the second point. If I could choose my entrance, I could choose which section of the house to furnish, because it would be very difficult to furnish the entire house with just 700 items.

I understand that 700 is a hard limit at the moment. However, knowing that is a hard limit, your design team creates this amazing house that can't possibly be furnished properly within that limit. It's a bit confusing to players to see things like that happen.

SkaraMinoc · June 2021

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Make each of the three sections their own zones with 700 items each.

^ Absolutely this.

The chapel, courtyard, and fort should each have 700 item limit and be loaded separately instead of all at once. 2100 total furnishing limit. Do this and watch it sell like hotcakes.

katanagirl1 · June 2021

Stone Eagle Aerie though only had a few rooms (3 really, and some narrow halls) and the outside for the 700 slots.

Varlaisvea? Only 3 rooms (one really small), a couple of hallways and a lot of exterior.

The Chapel? Well that’s a lot of interior space and it needs to be filled or it looks empty.

They claim that Varlaisvea is bigger than the Chapel but the interior space is the real limiting factor. The Ayleid home had a large pool that took up most of the one room so you could get by with fewer slots there.

I can see the Ayleid house with 700 slots but really there is no way the Chapel can get by with that.

If you start with the interior first you can sacrifice and leave the exterior the way it is if need be. If you run out in the interior...well it’s not going to work.

DoomGrunt624 · June 2021

I think the principal entry is locked because the bridge giving to the road (north) is linked to a locked zone yet.
That's why, through the Blackwood, you take the boat and giants doors are locked, I think.

bluebird · June 2021

DoomGrunt624 wrote: »

I think the principal entry is locked because the bridge giving to the road (north) is linked to a locked zone yet.
That's why, through the Blackwood, you take the boat and giants doors are locked, I think.

Yes, since they wanted the house to be entered from Blackwood, and the main doors lead towards somewhere in Blackmarsh, they went with the boat entry. Which in itself isn't that bad, we've seen it before in Forgemaster's Falls for example. They just chose a really niche entry point for the boat, rather than going with the more versatile dock that's more centrally located. The grounds have several grates and waterways that could have supported boat entry, but they chose to put it in under the chapel... which kinda limits the potential of the 'crypts' (which are tiny as a result), and also means that all visitors to the castle must go through a flooded tunnel... hardly ideal.

We can of course very easily fix that, since the tunnel has 3 potential exits, but stil...

M_Volsung · June 2021

I'm still waiting for them to fix the two rooms in Mistveil that can be seen from the outside of the house but don't exist inside the house.

StabbityDoom · June 2021

M_Volsung wrote: »

I'm still waiting for them to fix the two rooms in Mistveil that can be seen from the outside of the house but don't exist inside the house.

don't hold your breath. I've seen them fix something like that once, in all these years, with a wall issue, in Lakemire. And lakemire is still screwed up with the floor/wall issues. They look forward, not back, so our best bet is to try to tackle problems before they are in the game.

andreanub18_ESO · June 2021

I must say the large, sprawling homes really frustrate me. On the other hand, I snapped up Water's Edge and have been happily furnishing it the last few days. Pantherfang I will not buy unless something changes: divided into sections with 700 limit for each section, or control over where visitors enter.

StabbityDoom · June 2021

I should add I'm hearing complaints about the 3x price, so I suggest perhaps some other solution might be thought of, but I don't have any ideas there.

LaughingGremlin · June 2021

As nice as the divided section idea is it will never happen. The best we can hope for is another entry point to the castle and even that is a bit of a Hail Mary Pass.

Lauranae · June 2021

StabbityDoom wrote: »

I should add I'm hearing complaints about the 3x price, so I suggest perhaps some other solution might be thought of, but I don't have any ideas there.

Actually what is the price it will go for ?

I think that we should not for now discuss price for this house until we know for how much it will go.

Also, spliting the house into parts will totally break the feeling of this place. Having the fort without the exterior, or the chapel without anyplace to live like the fort, will make those look very different.

I admit that this limit of 700 is wrong and even stupid, and the only way to get things right is for ZoS for once to admit it and to change it.

Now if they can not, then please ZoS stop proposing such places. Yes you have a beautiful imagination BUT keep if for you if you are not able to give the means to enjoy it

StabbityDoom · June 2021

Not sure If I explained it right, @Lauranae - I mean the three would be sold as one, be one house like hall of the lunar champion has those zones in it but is one house. I just meant that each section would have its own count. Actually I think it does a load when you pass through the courtyard in pantherfang already.

I agree getting them to change the limit is ideal.

Lauranae · June 2021

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Not sure If I explained it right, @Lauranae - I mean the three would be sold as one, be one house like hall of the lunar champion has those zones in it but is one house. I just meant that each section would have its own count. Actually I think it does a load when you pass through the courtyard in pantherfang already.

I agree getting them to change the limit is ideal.

you probably explained it well and my french intern translator heard something else lol

SOrry for the confusion

)

NotaDaedraWorshipper · June 2021

Having an option to decide between more than one entrace to a house would be nice. Not just for Panther Fang.

But I honestly have no issue with the itemslots and the size of Panther Fang. 700 is what we have and right now there is no sight of them being able to change that, so we have to work with what we have. Sure ZoS could release better houses to fit that limit, but who decides what is fitting? Many people say the item limit not enough for PF because it's so big but I abd others think it's fine. It has two main buildings on it that doesn't use up any slots. One is a fort, the other a chapel. None of these buildings are crammed with furniture and clutter. Both of those buildings usually have sparely filled interiors, so for that it is enough.
More item slots would be nice, but it is tiring see it being brought up all the time.

Inaya · June 2021

I'd like to see an inside AND exterior item limit on all houses.

LaughingGremlin · June 2021

A larger slot limit would be nice but I could live with the 700 slot limit. A giant statue in the chapel will fill up space (come on ZOS bring out the Dibella statue). There are other tricks to help fill up space but the bottom line is I don't mind a little empty space in my home. Others prefer to fill their homes and a medium size home with a 700 slot limit would fit the bill. Unfortunately ZOS will not do that because it would hurt the value of the Notable homes. ZOS could charge for the extra slots but how much money are we willing to spend for the slots. ZOS makes a nice sum money selling these Mansions and if the medium homes are taking Mansion sales away then ZOS will charge a pretty hefty sum for the extra slots to make up for those lost sales.

The one thing that bugs me is the entryway. I prefer to enter through the courtyard not the basement but I have a feeling what we see is what we are getting.

FluffWit · June 2021

Move the entry to the big door in the courtyard and I'll definitely buy it. As it is I'm on the fence. They may be thinking "but the entrance has to be from water, you catch a boat there!" We don't care, offer then the first time we preview it we're never gonna use that boat.

They're not gonna rush out an increased furnishing cap. Hopefully in the future with properties like this they add load screens into the buildings and give them a seperate cap. 500 for the courtyard, 300 for each building. Something lime that.

katanagirl1 · June 2021

I finally got around to previewing this house.

If I got it, I’d like to place ballistae on the upper walls but I am not sure they would fit. The crenellated parapets seem rather high.

Also, you can’t really get a good view from up there, either.

It’s a nice property but it’s a huge space and the scarcity of Leyawiin style mats from dailies and the fact that I have farmed few furnishing plans in that zone, despite a lot of effort, means that trying to decorate it in that style (without spending a lot of gold and/or crowns just for that) is pointless.

Glad I didn’t have my heart set on it.

DoomGrunt624 · June 2021

bluebird wrote: »

DoomGrunt624 wrote: »

I think the principal entry is locked because the bridge giving to the road (north) is linked to a locked zone yet.
That's why, through the Blackwood, you take the boat and giants doors are locked, I think.

Yes, since they wanted the house to be entered from Blackwood, and the main doors lead towards somewhere in Blackmarsh, they went with the boat entry. Which in itself isn't that bad, we've seen it before in Forgemaster's Falls for example. They just chose a really niche entry point for the boat, rather than going with the more versatile dock that's more centrally located. The grounds have several grates and waterways that could have supported boat entry, but they chose to put it in under the chapel... which kinda limits the potential of the 'crypts' (which are tiny as a result), and also means that all visitors to the castle must go through a flooded tunnel... hardly ideal. We can of course very easily fix that, since the tunnel has 3 potential exits, but stil...

It's like the Hakkvild castle. The principal gates are locked because it is given to Falkreath, an unlocked zone yet. Despite this, the entry give to the nordics catacombs in the borderland of North Craglorn, because if you see wel, a part of the Falkreath zone in the castle of Hakkvild is visible on the map.

OfTheEight · June 2021

I agree with the ideals listed.

1. Split the buildings into their own instances and have a limit for each. Perhaps not 700 each but say 400 each to help keep the cost of it down.
2. Changing the enter location. I totally agree. I can understand why the current locations was picked, but ZOS remember who uses these houses the most. Builders and Role Players. Cater to the people buying these home.

As a side note. this has a chapel of the Eight on it, how about completing the rest of the furniture pieces for the Eight Divine? please. I promise to buy 2 if not maybe even 8 of each piece.

MornaBaine · July 2021

StabbityDoom wrote: »

M_Volsung wrote: »

I'm still waiting for them to fix the two rooms in Mistveil that can be seen from the outside of the house but don't exist inside the house.

don't hold your breath. I've seen them fix something like that once, in all these years, with a wall issue, in Lakemire. And lakemire is still screwed up with the floor/wall issues. They look forward, not back, so our best bet is to try to tackle problems before they are in the game.

Unfortunately my observation has been that once something hits PTS it's a done deal. They absolutely do not listen to feedback when it comes to housing.

Spell-Slinger · July 2021

bluebird wrote: »

DoomGrunt624 wrote: »

I think the principal entry is locked because the bridge giving to the road (north) is linked to a locked zone yet.
That's why, through the Blackwood, you take the boat and giants doors are locked, I think.

Yes, since they wanted the house to be entered from Blackwood, and the main doors lead towards somewhere in Blackmarsh, they went with the boat entry. Which in itself isn't that bad, we've seen it before in Forgemaster's Falls for example. They just chose a really niche entry point for the boat, rather than going with the more versatile dock that's more centrally located. The grounds have several grates and waterways that could have supported boat entry, but they chose to put it in under the chapel... which kinda limits the potential of the 'crypts' (which are tiny as a result), and also means that all visitors to the castle must go through a flooded tunnel... hardly ideal. We can of course very easily fix that, since the tunnel has 3 potential exits, but stil...

I keep seeing this argument. You realize that ZOS could just as easily have just... turned the entire building the other way, so that the entry point was towards Blackwood? It's a problem that they themselves created that you have to enter by boat at that specific point. There is no REAL reason for it to be that way.

SkaraMinoc · July 2021

We must be able to access the very top of the fort without using an addon.

SkaraMinoc · July 2021

Anything over 18k crowns (furnished) is a hard pass on this house in its current state.

Zypheran · July 2021

I completely agree Stabby. Realistically though, as we have seen in the past, as once a house reaches PTS, ZOS will not change it at this point. They possibly might address some glaring bug if it's mentioned on Twitter (which seems to be the main feedback they read) but won't make any significant changes. Personally I think this makes it pointless to put houses on the PTS and ask players for feedback. This is why we need people like yourself as Housing Reps, but that's a whole other discussion😀
I'm on an extended break myself from ESO, but I saw this article while checking the Lux Vendor update from B.Bowd

Pantherfang is blatantly too huge for 700 slots. If any of the Devs played with housing system in game, like we do, they would know this.
I believe ALL houses should come with configurable load in points. It would be a massive step forward to solving the issues created by putting out massive mini-zone style homes with only 700 items.
Ideally, have the load-in point a placeable piece of furniture (like the Skyrim Creation Kit). Yes, this might lead to people placing it outside the invisible wall, but so what!! If somebody wants to decorate out there, let them. They've paid the price of a triple-A game for it so why should they have such narrow-visioned restrictions imposed on it.
But even if they didn't want to, or can't, make it a moveable item, It is my single biggest suggestion to ZOS that they make load-in points customisable.
But, sorry to be cynical, I've long given up hope that ZOS take onboard any suggestions from this part of the forum.😔
Try put it on Twitter maybe!😀

StabbityDoom · July 2021

Zypheran wrote: »

I completely agree Stabby. Realistically though, as we have seen in the past, as once a house reaches PTS, ZOS will not change it at this point. They possibly might address some glaring bug if it's mentioned on Twitter (which seems to be the main feedback they read) but won't make any significant changes. Personally I think this makes it pointless to put houses on the PTS and ask players for feedback. This is why we need people like yourself as Housing Reps, but that's a whole other discussion😀
I'm on an extended break myself from ESO, but I saw this article while checking the Lux Vendor update from B.Bowd
Pantherfang is blatantly too huge for 700 slots. If any of the Devs played with housing system in game, like we do, they would know this.
I believe ALL houses should come with configurable load in points. It would be a massive step forward to solving the issues created by putting out massive mini-zone style homes with only 700 items.
Ideally, have the load-in point a placeable piece of furniture (like the Skyrim Creation Kit). Yes, this might lead to people placing it outside the invisible wall, but so what!! If somebody wants to decorate out there, let them. They've paid the price of a triple-A game for it so why should they have such narrow-visioned restrictions imposed on it.
But even if they didn't want to, or can't, make it a moveable item, It is my single biggest suggestion to ZOS that they make load-in points customisable.
But, sorry to be cynical, I've long given up hope that ZOS take onboard any suggestions from this part of the forum.😔
Try put it on Twitter maybe!😀

I agree. I might put it on Reddit, but yeah, they seem to have some reason why they don’t seem to change things from pts to release. Maybe they need to re-examine their system. I know some devs play, but they aren’t the ones with the power to make these changes.

MaisonNaevius · July 2021

The main entrance, which is blocked, may be opened in the future for access from the "Nibenay" area.

bluebird · July 2021

Spell-Slinger wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

DoomGrunt624 wrote: »

I think the principal entry is locked because the bridge giving to the road (north) is linked to a locked zone yet.
That's why, through the Blackwood, you take the boat and giants doors are locked, I think.

Yes, since they wanted the house to be entered from Blackwood, and the main doors lead towards somewhere in Blackmarsh, they went with the boat entry. Which in itself isn't that bad, we've seen it before in Forgemaster's Falls for example. They just chose a really niche entry point for the boat, rather than going with the more versatile dock that's more centrally located. The grounds have several grates and waterways that could have supported boat entry, but they chose to put it in under the chapel... which kinda limits the potential of the 'crypts' (which are tiny as a result), and also means that all visitors to the castle must go through a flooded tunnel... hardly ideal. We can of course very easily fix that, since the tunnel has 3 potential exits, but stil...

I keep seeing this argument. You realize that ZOS could just as easily have just... turned the entire building the other way, so that the entry point was towards Blackwood? It's a problem that they themselves created that you have to enter by boat at that specific point. There is no REAL reason for it to be that way.

If you look at the map where the house actually is, the Blackwood side of it is just water... and there is no road in the zone that goes to the house (you can swim out there past some islands if you really want, but again, hardly easy access). Rotating it would not have solved anything.

Finding a different placement for the house could have been a solution (e.g. put it around the border, with the gate facing an actual land-accessible road, and have the open-water area in the back past the zone), but then we're talking about something very different. Perhaps their pitch for this house was 'it's a castle on the water and you enter it by boat'.

So sure we can go back to the inception of the whole idea and say that ZOS made it this way when they didn't have to, but what we got was the result of a long sequence of decisions - some of which may be questionable depending on your opinion - but they are unlikely to even alter our ability to enter in a different area, let alone fundamentally change what the house is and where it's located.

everseeing_njpreub18_ESO · July 2021

I agree with the original post. Having a "spawn point" item seems possible, as you can now spawn inside/outside, wouldn't it be possible to have inside/outside/spawnpoint. Even if its locked to 1 per house, or even if it replaces the "inside" spawn i think people would love it... which of course means it would sell well on the crown store.

As i will be getting Pantherfang (the first house I've truly liked enough to want beyond my original Daggerfall Overlook) I can see wanting to spawn in by the entry gate and not downstairs in the sewers of my new immense cathedral/castle. Of course also letting people who only want to use portions of these continually growing homes without running through massive empty areas.

More-so I prefer the second point. Right now i use Daggerfall Overlook as my main home, and i use the Mod "Essential Housing Tools" to add "portals" to my homes which gives a nice feel of immersion as i portal from there to my "farm house" and my "merchant home". Places my house-guests call home and extensions of my main home, these portals allow me to feel more like my character is remaining in the world over opening a menu to select the next house. A small thing, but now that i use these portals i feel they add a lot. And of course again they would sell like crazy in the crown store.