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Is it me or ZOS lose their ambitions?
VikkiVonTraxx
✭✭✭
Since the Great Plague, storylines are red, crown crates had some blues..
Since we got Greymoor and Blackwood..
I miss Morrowind or Elsweyr Eras..
So please wake up, ZOS
Dagon stole your ambitions.. and now comes time to fight!
Never forget what Vehk should think about you...
Edited by VikkiVonTraxx on June 18, 2021 11:50PM Since we got Greymoor and Blackwood..
I miss Morrowind or Elsweyr Eras..
So please wake up, ZOS
Dagon stole your ambitions.. and now comes time to fight!
Never forget what Vehk should think about you...
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Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't know, since ZOS is a business selling a product/service, I would say their ambition always was to make sure they had a profitable business. I think they still hold that ambition and are still achieving that successfully.9 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Define "ambition"?
Considering that ESO is essentially a clone of WoW / Diablo 3 with a few different details, I would say that there was never much ambition for creative originality in the gameplay and structure of the game.
Artistically and quest-writing wise, I think there is a lot of ambition in the game, as quests are generally pretty well written, and the zones are all very well done for the genre and very appealing to just wander around in.
And then as the poster above me said, there is the financial / business ambition to create a product that generates revenue, and considering that ESO is one of the premiere MMO's on the market and is a success by any metric, then they have been successful in that ambition.3 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭VikkiVonTraxx wrote: »Since the Great Plague, storylines are red, crown crates have some blues.. Since we got Greymoor and Blackwood..
I miss Morrowind or Elsweyr eras..
They stepped onto the ubisoft way.5 -
vallisas✭✭✭Calling Eso a clone of WoW is a little off. WoW being story-centric ain't really a thing. Of all the MMOs on the market right now. WoW is the least reminiscent of a single player experience in an MMO. All Eso, FFXIV and Swtor do a better job at story than WoW ever did even in it's prime. Questing in ESO FEELS like a single player TES, the same cannot be said for WoW.
Anyway I think it's moreso they don't want to screw up continuity with the next TES so they're a bit restricted.16 -
VikkiVonTraxx✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Define "ambition"?
Considering that ESO is essentially a clone of WoW / Diablo 3 with a few different details, I would say that there was never much ambition for creative originality in the gameplay and structure of the game.
Artistically and quest-writing wise, I think there is a lot of ambition in the game, as quests are generally pretty well written, and the zones are all very well done for the genre and very appealing to just wander around in.
And then as the poster above me said, there is the financial / business ambition to create a product that generates revenue, and considering that ESO is one of the premiere MMO's on the market and is a success by any metric, then they have been successful in that ambition.
I define ambitions as artistically and quest writting wise, so i’m thinking the perfect opposite.. Their lores, always full of beauty, full of poetry... That was the reason why i always was in love with Bethesda.
They’re breaking my heart.Edited by VikkiVonTraxx on June 18, 2021 10:32PM2 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well we've been here for a while now as have they.
7+ years down the line and we as a community are mostly still present (on and off and some gone), but we can tell from the forum that most of our desires aren't being implicated and we tend to get the same thing over and over again. Perhaps it's tied to the game's engine and memory management like said in recent interviews, but it's obvious there's a clear and present path of content deployment that doesn't seem to want to change.
Performance, combat and immersion patches are desperately needed to make this feel more like a ES RPG game (if that's who they are promoting to at the moment)3 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Calling Eso a clone of WoW is a little off. WoW being story-centric ain't really a thing. Of all the MMOs on the market right now. WoW is the least reminiscent of a single player experience in an MMO. All Eso, FFXIV and Swtor do a better job at story than WoW ever did even in it's prime. Questing in ESO FEELS like a single player TES, the same cannot be said for WoW.
Anyway I think it's moreso they don't want to screw up continuity with the next TES so they're a bit restricted.
I mean, gameplay wise they are the same thing.
Generic and bland overland solo questing, group dungeon content, and bigger group raid / trial content.
There are differences in the details, but foundationally they are the same game. From a gameplay standpoint, there is zero innovation with ESO. They've done literally nothing new, and built their game around the same post-WoW formula. Even the "real time" MMO combat was done first in Age Of Conan.
It's very similar to Diablo 3 as well. Rifts = dungeons, Greater Rifts = vet dungeons, similar leveling systems, near identical gear grind, and the Necromancer class is almost taken directly from the Diablo 3 Necromancer class, complete with a scythe spammable.
Also, there is nothing even remotely similar about single ESO questing and a single player TES game. If ESO is what single player TES was, it would be one of my most hated RPG franchises instead of my all time most beloved. There is no similarity between them other than having quest stories based in Elder Scrolls lore.
Having played all the games in question myself, it won't be possible to change my mind on this.Edited by amm7sb14_ESO on June 17, 2021 6:12PM4 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emperor Leovic actively tried to hide the Ambitions, he did not accidentally lose them.
Sorry.6 -
DTStormfox✭✭✭✭✭In my opinion and experience, ESO has become nothing more than a cash cow (not to be confused with a cash grab, that is something completely different).Edited by DTStormfox on June 17, 2021 7:07PM6 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Luckylancer wrote: »
Well, your examples would, seeing as how those are actually single player experiences...
Perhaps you'd like to give an example of an MMORPG that better captures the feeling of a single player TES game than ESO? Asking for a friend, you see.
Edited by VaranisArano on June 17, 2021 7:13PM2 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Luckylancer wrote: »
Well, your examples would, seeing as how those are actually single player experiences...
Perhaps you'd like to give an example of an MMORPG that better captures the feeling of a single player TES game than ESO? Asking for a friend, you see.
I'm struggling to think of any really. Drawing a blank here.1 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »I don't know, since ZOS is a business selling a product/service, I would say their ambition always was to make sure they had a profitable business. I think they still hold that ambition and are still achieving that successfully.
What they said ^
- OP I know what you mean however -0 -
HyekAr✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Calling Eso a clone of WoW is a little off. WoW being story-centric ain't really a thing. Of all the MMOs on the market right now. WoW is the least reminiscent of a single player experience in an MMO. All Eso, FFXIV and Swtor do a better job at story than WoW ever did even in it's prime. Questing in ESO FEELS like a single player TES, the same cannot be said for WoW.
Anyway I think it's moreso they don't want to screw up continuity with the next TES so they're a bit restricted.
I mean, gameplay wise they are the same thing.
Generic and bland overland solo questing, group dungeon content, and bigger group raid / trial content.
There are differences in the details, but foundationally they are the same game. From a gameplay standpoint, there is zero innovation with ESO. They've done literally nothing new, and built their game around the same post-WoW formula. Even the "real time" MMO combat was done first in Age Of Conan.
It's very similar to Diablo 3 as well. Rifts = dungeons, Greater Rifts = vet dungeons, similar leveling systems, near identical gear grind, and the Necromancer class is almost taken directly from the Diablo 3 Necromancer class, complete with a scythe spammable.
Also, there is nothing even remotely similar about single ESO questing and a single player TES game. If ESO is what single player TES was, it would be one of my most hated RPG franchises instead of my all time most beloved. There is no similarity between them other than having quest stories based in Elder Scrolls lore.
Having played all the games in question myself, it won't be possible to change my mind on this.
I would say it is Age of Conan Unchained with better graphics and different mythology1 -
WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not honestly sure what the OP is describing, but I have definitely noticed a shift to more formula driven content since their main loremaster and writer Lawrence Schick left the company after I want to say the Summerset chapter.
Since then these yearly adventures have largely seemed like cookie cutters to push a new batch of crown crate reskins, with an increasing shift of desired items to gamble gem only purchase. We got some cool looking zones like Elsweyr, but the stories, while occasionally humorous and entertaining, have become increasingly tropey (yes that is a word!) and the presentation a little stale and predictable.
Listen to dialogue -> accept quest -> get some non-RP options that do not effect the progression at all and have zero impact on gameplay other than to listen to NPC's talk more.
I love the voice acting don't get me wrong. Its just, look at Wrothgar. Cutscenes with a badarse woodelf blowing things up, characters diving in and doing stuff, climbing gates, stabbing stabbable things, and dialogue options that actually have some impact on the story progression.
That is all basically gone now.
When is the last time you even had to use Persuade/Intimidate on a modern ESO quest?
The game has improved in many ways but the doubling down on the gamble crates has definitely cost them in DEPTH, not to mention reputation. Not that anyone cares about that anymore, so long as you make money I guess.
I just think there is MORE money to be made with inspired and passionate work. Not to say none of the artists have passion.
"Imagine a world where what is good for the shareholders is actually good for the customers."
-Chris Metzen, co-creator of the original World of Warcraft.
Edited by WhyMustItBe on June 17, 2021 11:55PM10 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »
When is the last time you even had to use Persuade/Intimidate on a modern ESO quest?
The last time Marcus Titus Alessian used Intimidate, he didn't learn anything, but apparently he reduced the captured NPC to a sobbing wreck for Bastian to successfully interrogate.
But yes, ESO's year long story lines are cookie cutter stories, featuring a recurring NPC who hooks new and old players into the zone but who won't have any character growth because continuity, the first Chapter quest is a rehash of what we learned in the Q1 dungeons and Prologue, and the assets are reused for Q4.5 -
HyekAr✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »
Listen to dialogue -> accept quest -> get some non-RP options that do not effect the progression at all and have zero impact on gameplay other than to listen to NPC's talk more.
Many quests are just hit and run, there is some point when the quest has no sense, the only MB the experiance U got, as just per farm ONE dont get the same amount. Most of the time I dont listen niether read the quest.Edited by HyekAr on June 18, 2021 4:01AM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VikkiVonTraxx wrote: »Since the Great Plague, storylines are red, crown crates have some blues.. Since we got Greymoor and Blackwood..
I miss Morrowind or Elsweyr eras..
Blackwood was pretty ambitious. It introduced a new game system (companions), the zone looks and sounds great, and the story had some of the best cut scenes in the game to date. I also loved most of the characters. The ambitions were brimming with personality and well voiced. Dagon also makes for a very menacing villain.Edited by Jeremy on June 18, 2021 4:12AM1 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Calling Eso a clone of WoW is a little off. WoW being story-centric ain't really a thing. Of all the MMOs on the market right now. WoW is the least reminiscent of a single player experience in an MMO. All Eso, FFXIV and Swtor do a better job at story than WoW ever did even in it's prime. Questing in ESO FEELS like a single player TES, the same cannot be said for WoW.
Anyway I think it's moreso they don't want to screw up continuity with the next TES so they're a bit restricted.
I agree, well except for SWTOR as their good storytelling days ended long ago. I have not been around long but it is clear Zenimax is pushing more storytelling per year than any of those three and does not seem interested in slowing down. The quality of the storytelling is amazing as well. Granted, that does not mean everyone will always agree with how the story was done as that will never happen.0 -
Orion_89✭✭✭✭It is really a strange thing that most of the players justify ZOS's desire to make money. Let me to remember to you: YOU pay not because you have to, but because they sell a product you might be interest in. And if the product is no longer interesting to you, stop paying, take a break until things get better.6
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Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is really a strange thing that most of the players justify ZOS's desire to make money. Let me to remember to you: YOU pay not because you have to, but because they sell a product you might be interest in. And if the product is no longer interesting to you, stop paying, take a break until things get better.
You know why this phrase doesn't click with many players. *Looks around at the 7+ year addicted mob*
Not as easy as one may think, but yes breaks are good, although even with breaks people are coming back frustrated to big unnecessary/sometimes game shattering changes every year.
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Sorbin✭✭✭✭It's gotten absolutely formulaic and repetitive. It's been the exact same four updates every quarter for years now. Just look at critical review scores for Greymoor and Blackwood; safe, formulaic, repetitive is the theme over and over again.8
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WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭You know why this phrase doesn't click with many players. *Looks around at the 7+ year addicted mob*
Not as easy as one may think, but yes breaks are good, although even with breaks people are coming back frustrated to big unnecessary/sometimes game shattering changes every year.
It took me a long time to figure out why I was so jaded, disappointed, let down, and even angry with Zenimax when I have invested so much time in the game. Why any time I think of the company, and specifically the people who run it, I feel a surge of negative emotions.
I finally came to the conclusion that I don't like greed, I don't like lazy cost cutting, and I really, REALLY don't like feeling like a human guinea pig.
Every time I play this game, I don't feel like I am part of a team, sharing the adventure like I used to feel back in the day when the WoW devs used to raid and hang out like everyone else. Instead I feel like I am some product or "asset" being intentionally manipulated to extract maximum short term value. I feel like I am constantly being pushed into ADDICTION, pushed to gamble, pushed to find new ways to pad quarterly value with minimal effort and currency obfuscating cost creep.
In short, I feel manipulated, used, unappreciated, and like I am supporting a business strategy that represent what I consider to be the worst things about humanity. It is a shame because I think most of the eployees at Zenimax are probably decent people. But EVERYTHING takes a back seat to the almighty short term dollar grab.
It started with the introduction of the gamble crates, and as the emphasis on such addiction pushing tactics has steadily increased along with prices, quality and the overall experience has diminished.
Could be time to move on.
Edited by WhyMustItBe on June 18, 2021 7:43PM8 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ever since they announced their "Year-long format" they would be using after the the launch of Summerset chapter is when things started going downhill in my opinion. Elsweyr chapter was not bad in my opinion, but you could definitely tell a difference in content quality.6 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »You know why this phrase doesn't click with many players. *Looks around at the 7+ year addicted mob*
Not as easy as one may think, but yes breaks are good, although even with breaks people are coming back frustrated to big unnecessary/sometimes game shattering changes every year.
It took me a long time to figure out why I was so jaded, disappointed, let down, and even angry with Zenimax when I have invested so much time in the game. Why any time I think of the company, and specifically the people who run it, I feel a surge of negative emotions.
I finally came to the conclusion that I don't like greed, I don't like lazy cost cutting, and I really, REALLY don't like feeling like a human guinea pig.
Every time I play this game, I don't feel like I am part of a team, sharing the adventure like I used to feel back in the day when the WoW devs used to raid and hang out like everyone else. Instead I feel like I am some product or "asset" being intentionally manipulated to extract maximum short term value. I feel like I am constantly being pushed into ADDICTION, pushed to gamble, pushed to find new ways to pad quarterly value with minimal effort and currency obfuscating cost creep.
In short, I feel manipulated, used, unappreciated, and like I am supporting a business strategy that represent what I consider to be the worst things about humanity. It is a shame because I think most of the eployees at Zenimax are probably decent people. But EVERYTHING takes a back seat to the almighty short term dollar grab.
It started with the introduction of the gamble crates, and as the emphasis on such addiction pushing tactics has steadily increased along with prices, quality and the overall experience has diminished.
Could be time to move on.
That's literally everyone who is trying to obtain more than they currently have.0 -
WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Goregrinder wrote: »That's literally everyone who is trying to obtain more than they currently have.
I think this is precisely the mindset that has pushed me away from this game. There are things in this life more important than money. Things like people, community, the experiences you have together, the times you share and what they mean. Things that don't come with a price attached, or if they do, are never really the same.
There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting more. The problem I feel is people who don't know when to stop. At what point is it enough? At what point do we look back and realized all we sacrificed just to grab at more?
It is an addiction, like any other. That is the difference between "wanting more" and succumbing to greed.
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