Rapport unfair to members of Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood

SilverBride · June 2021

I don't like rapport, but I could accept it more if it weren't prejudiced against players who explore the dark side of Tamriel.

We need companions who are like minded with all play styles, not just the goody two shoes we have now. For every "good" companion there should be a "dark" companion. One who would gain rapport for a good heist, or opening lockboxes successfully, or completing the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood dailies.

But the way it is now, a good portion of the player population is being hindered in developing a relationship with their companions because they engage in some of the darker aspects of the game.

Eiagra · June 2021

My understanding is that companions are to be more their own person, rather than someone we mold into our own designs.

I've run into similar gripes for simple things like collecting butterfly wings, but I respect my companion's preferences... and then do what I want behind their back while they're dismissed. It's about 15 seconds, and I think they can be put on quickslots? (Someone confirm, I hadn't done that but I believe my sister did.)

I imagine there will be companions who don't care about butterflies or murder at some point. Until then, I'll entertain my companions using what they like to do rather than what I like to do.

SilverBride · June 2021

Eiagra wrote: »

My understanding is that companions are to be more their own person, rather than someone we mold into our own designs.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be their own person, and I am not trying to mold them into something they are not. I am saying there should be companions who fit every play style, not just the goody goody ones.

If I want to be a hero I will choose Bastian. If I want to be a thief or assassin I would choose a companion who is also a thief or assassin.

They still may not like everything I do, but you know the old saying "birds of a feather flock together". Well thieves and assassins currently have no companions to flock with.

lillybit · June 2021

The Torchbug thing drives me to distraction and had me wanting to rage quit the first day - you're pointing at a nice harmless node, the pointer says ancestor silk, you click X and *bam!* stealth bug!

FluffWit · June 2021

Theyve said more companions are coming, I'd like a girl who looks like Barbie and a Goblin or Riekling please.

ectoplasmicninja · June 2021

Bastian and Mirri aren't the end of companions. Unless the forum backlash makes ZOS reconsider the whole system, I'm quite sure we'll be getting more of them, and also that future companions will include folks who approve of or are at least ambivalent about murdering. We've only gotten two of them so far, and one is a paragon of virtue and one is fine with thieving. That's a decent amount of nuance already. I can't imagine ZOS isn't going to give us a backstabby sociopath so all the murdering murderers can go get their murder on with a friend.

Also, this won't happen, but I would love Elam Drals as a companion...he can tell me all the best places to eat while we depopulate the continent.

SilverBride · June 2021

Well I hope they do add some darker companions because right now I have zero desire to develop rapport with either of these.

redspecter23 · June 2021

Consider putting them away before doing things they don't like? You don't have to have them out with you all the time. You could even roleplay it so that you have a secret life they don't know about. I'm sure we'll get companions in the future that are a bit more shady. If they object to players doing positive things like helping others, I would suggest the same thing. Just put them away while you do those activities.

SilverBride · June 2021

I do put them away now if I want to pick up a thieves trove or open a lockbox. But I'd rather have a companion I have something "In common" with.

Eiagra · June 2021

I'm pretty sure they will, since they've made an effort to create and test rapport activities with the current roster. From a development/customer demand standpoint, providing both options for who fits whom best is a logical move. (Personally, I'm looking for more beefy, sexy orcs, but alas, my wait continues.)

That said, they've surprised us before by not doing what we think makes sense, so... I guess we'll see? Here's hoping, though.

kringled_1 · June 2021

I'm pretty sure Mirri doesn't care if you pick a pocket or open a lockbox as long as no one gets hurt. I know she doesn't care about Thieves troves.

virtus753 · June 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

I do put them away now if I want to pick up a thieves trove or open a lockbox. But I'd rather have a companion I have something "In common" with.

I don't think Mirri dislikes that. In fact, she seems to speak highly of looting thieves troves ("you'll take anything that's not nailed down" -- in a complimentary sort of way, though phrasing XD). It's true she doesn't give rapport for it, though. It would be nice to get a companion down the line who does give approval for committing injustices, even if doing so as one of the first two on offer might have been risky from a marketing perspective.

As for the Wocket, well, there's a reason he stays in my pocket. Thankfully he doesn't seem to be able to do anything Mirri can't -- even the companion perk is bugged, so there's little practical point in having him around aside from the moments of gaining rapport.

Chaos2088 · June 2021

No doubt we will get a companion that likes dark brother hood and theives guild stuff soon.

Danikat · June 2021

I agree that it would have been good to have more of a variety of companions in right from the start, rather than two who seem relatively similar, but maybe ZOS knew that they didn't have the resources to make a whole load of companions right away and knew that most players/characters are fairly law abiding (I know I'm not the only one to have an 'evil' character because there's things I want to do for gameplay reasons which none of my other characters would do) so they tailored the initial companions to suit them.

But I hope the next 'batch' includes at least one who is more open minded, or maybe more of a law breaker themselves. Although for practical reasons I hope they stay away from the common problem with some RPG party systems where the 'evil' characters will complain every time you do something which isn't evil, even if that's finish a quest without screwing someone over, even if the game never gives you that option.

(There's one quest early on in Baldur's Gate where you return a woman's ring and she can't afford to pay you, it's trivial because you'd have to go out of your way not to pick up the ring or go back where she's waiting, so completing it is no big deal but all the good party members act like you're amazingly generous for doing it and all the evil ones complain about how awful it is and every time I'm left thinking "every single one of you was in the party when I picked up this quest and could have asked about the reward if it was so important but no one seemed to care then, so stop acting like it's such a big deal now" and it annoys me that I can't say that.)

Sirvaleen · June 2021

Indeed a "darker" companion would be nice. Mirri was a disappointment there since she was described as having a "stab you in the back" kind of personality. Really not the case.

Abigail · June 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't like rapport, but I could accept it more if it weren't prejudiced against players who explore the dark side of Tamriel.

We need companions who are like minded with all play styles, not just the goody two shoes we have now. For every "good" companion there should be a "dark" companion. One who would gain rapport for a good heist, or opening lockboxes successfully, or completing the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood dailies.

But the way it is now, a good portion of the player population is being hindered in developing a relationship with their companions because they engage in some of the darker aspects of the game.

Just do the daily that gives your companion 125 rapport. That will way more than offset your evil deeds @1 rapport per.

Netheniel · June 2021

Even though I haven't run into problems with the current rapport system, I'm not fond of any system that can undo your progress, especially when that progress is a grind. It's no different to a system that rolls back your XP when you die. There needs to be a clear line between simulation and entertainment. IMO companions in ESO should focus solely on entertainment (like in SW:TOR). They can verbally react to your play style, but you should never be penalized as a result of your actions. If I want simulation, I'll play The Sims.

Sylvermynx · June 2021

Danikat wrote: »

<snip>

(There's one quest early on in Baldur's Gate where you return a woman's ring and she can't afford to pay you, it's trivial because you'd have to go out of your way not to pick up the ring or go back where she's waiting, so completing it is no big deal but all the good party members act like you're amazingly generous for doing it and all the evil ones complain about how awful it is and every time I'm left thinking "every single one of you was in the party when I picked up this quest and could have asked about the reward if it was so important but no one seemed to care then, so stop acting like it's such a big deal now" and it annoys me that I can't say that.)

Yeah. That quest is what changed my mind about having "dev sidekicks" along. After that, I started the game over and made my own 6 character party (including my own Imoen - the single most annoying character in any game other than Serana) and played over and over quite happily without ever touching the "sidekicks" again. I really appreciated the fact that you could use the server setup to do that.

M_Volsung · June 2021

Eiagra wrote: »

My understanding is that companions are to be more their own person, rather than someone we mold into our own designs.

I've run into similar gripes for simple things like collecting butterfly wings, but I respect my companion's preferences... and then do what I want behind their back while they're dismissed. It's about 15 seconds, and I think they can be put on quickslots? (Someone confirm, I hadn't done that but I believe my sister did.)

I imagine there will be companions who don't care about butterflies or murder at some point. Until then, I'll entertain my companions using what they like to do rather than what I like to do.

Yeah, you can quickslot them, just like the banker and merchant.

SpiritofESO · June 2021

There are things the Companions do not like. Since I know this already, I merely dismiss them when I know I will do something that will give me negative rapport with them.

Mirri is okay with me stealing -- she even makes wry comments about it.
Bastion doesn't like stealing.

Mirri doesn't like me harvesting flying insects, but she does like when I craft alcoholic beverages (my kind of girl)
Bastion -- not so much.

In any event, when you are going to do something that you know they won't like, just dismiss them.

bmnoble · June 2021

I think it was intentional to stop people going on there murder sprees through towns with a companion alongside.

I am not talking about the Dark brotherhood quests where you kill X number of people but those that treat the NPC's like they are grinding zombies in the Alikir.

I don't really see it as that big of an issue its faster to do crime related stuff on your own, if your doing those kind of activities it should be rare that you get noticed or go into combat at all unless something goes wrong.

Hapexamendios · June 2021

Given the way they agro everything it'd be foolish to take them on Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood quest. Maybe in the future they'll have on a companion for that. Also it's way too early to call it unfair as the Companion system just started.

SilverBride · June 2021

I don't want to take them on Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood quests, but why not have a companion who could congratulate you on a nice heist for example, when you turn in a daily quest? Why not have companions who appreciate these as much as the player may?

SammyKhajit · June 2021

OP you seem to assume that these two will be the only companions released. Sammy is confident that there will be more, including thieves and assassins. At a reasonable Crown price

or one which we must grind 10000000000 of Endeavour points for

VaranisArano · June 2021

Silencer Maria Montclair, a short, sour-faced Breton woman in armor marked with the Black Hand strides into the Undaunted office in Wayrest "Do you have a Companion who'll accompany an assassin?"

Nearby, a troll roars and bangs the bars of its cage at two duelists fighting in front of it. Maj al-Ragath shakes her head as though she didn't quite understand. "Excuse me?"

"I need a companion to accompany me on my adventures, but Bastian is a goody two shoes and Mirri disapproves of me joining the Dark Brotherhood instead of her precious "legal" Morag Tong. You folks are good at killing. I'm good at killing. It's a natural partnership, right?"

"Er, look, can I interest you in taking a damage dealer position instead? I'll warn you the queue is a bit long."

"Nah, why do you think I want a tank who's not afraid to cut some throats as well as bash some skulls? Oh well, I'll look elsewhere."

................

It's a lovely day in Artaeum as it always is. Maria blends into the crowds of Antiquarians running to and from dig sites, emerging at the Tower with her pockets full of goodies. Inside, she swipes a few more small valuables on the way to see Loremaster Celarus. "Hey, can I borrow Josejah and the Augur of the Obscure for a bit?"

He glowers. "Absolutely not. In fact, after Sotha Sil's research notes appeared on the black market after the last time you visited, I should ask the Ritemaster to banish you from the Order."

"Aww, that's no way to treat the woman who murdered her way through Nocturnal's plot, now is it?"

"Such overt violence is not the Psijic Way."

"Well, darn it. There's goes my chance at getting a Psijic Companion."

..................

In the Dragonguard headquarters, Sai Sahan stares down at her. "Absolutely not."

"No? I just want to borrow one of your Dragonguard. They're really good at killing."

"The last time I adventured with you, you sacrificed me to Akatosh and laughed about hurting Lyris' feelings. Now go away."

"Aww, but no one wants to work with me. I'm all alone!"

"I wonder why that is."

.......................

"Fennorian? Adusa? Either of you want to adventure with me?"

"You do realize the Ravenwatch is trying to save the mortals, not kill them, right?"

*sighs*

........................

Maria studies her final three candidates. One is a Breton Worm Cultist who swears he was high in Mannimarco's good graces, but frankly is a novice necromancer at best. The next is a wild Reach Witch who doesn't care who Maria kills as long as she gets to kill some of the oppressor Nords. Finally, there's the Argonian, Remains-Silent the Bequeather.

In the end, it's a simple decision to pick her Dark Sister. "At least I don't have to listen to you criticize my technique!"

Remains-Silent nods knowingly.

SilverBride · June 2021

I know there will be others. I just hope they balance out the choices more in the future.

Jeremy · June 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't like rapport, but I could accept it more if it weren't prejudiced against players who explore the dark side of Tamriel.

We need companions who are like minded with all play styles, not just the goody two shoes we have now. For every "good" companion there should be a "dark" companion. One who would gain rapport for a good heist, or opening lockboxes successfully, or completing the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood dailies.

But the way it is now, a good portion of the player population is being hindered in developing a relationship with their companions because they engage in some of the darker aspects of the game.

Yep.

It was a big mistake not to introduce an evil (or at least a morally indifferent) companion at the beginning. The companion system would have appealed to a broader audience if they had.

colossalvoids · June 2021

Elam Drals as a companion and I'd buy next dlc right away. Not happening though, dunmer nightblade is already implemented, oh well.

Moshe · July 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't like rapport, but I could accept it more if it weren't prejudiced against players who explore the dark side of Tamriel.

We need companions who are like minded with all play styles, not just the goody two shoes we have now. For every "good" companion there should be a "dark" companion. One who would gain rapport for a good heist, or opening lockboxes successfully, or completing the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood dailies.

But the way it is now, a good portion of the player population is being hindered in developing a relationship with their companions because they engage in some of the darker aspects of the game.

Indeed so. One would think that Mirri would be approving of such activities by default, since she’s an assassin-based companion. Go figure…

VaranisArano · July 2021

Moshe wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't like rapport, but I could accept it more if it weren't prejudiced against players who explore the dark side of Tamriel.

We need companions who are like minded with all play styles, not just the goody two shoes we have now. For every "good" companion there should be a "dark" companion. One who would gain rapport for a good heist, or opening lockboxes successfully, or completing the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood dailies.

But the way it is now, a good portion of the player population is being hindered in developing a relationship with their companions because they engage in some of the darker aspects of the game.

Indeed so. One would think that Mirri would be approving of such activities by default, since she’s an assassin-based companion. Go figure…

She's not an assassin, though. She's a member of the Fighters Guild. While she approves of stealing (especially given her 2nd personal quest), she's not down for murdering innocents or sending souls to Sithis.

One can be a nightblade and not automatically out to murder people.

SilverBride · July 2021

Moshe wrote: »

...One would think that Mirri would be approving of such activities by default, since she’s an assassin-based companion...

At least Mirri doesn't freak out when I open a thieve's trove. But she could be more understanding of Dark Brotherhood activities.

Bastian on the other hand... he sure isn't the life of the party.