ATTN: Returning VET PvP players * From 2-5+ years ago ! ( 10 things small rant )

WeylandLabs · June 2021

From my experience there was always a way to counter the meta, in finding unique builds to work on the same class. This is no more ZOS in my opinion completely ruined PvP - new CP is awful.
I came back to not only be completely outmatched, but I came back to overpowered players that are only the most powerful because they were teenagers and kids when they started. 😂

1.) Certain classes and builds now allow you to animation cancel not other ones as tested.

2.) Damage is like WTF I spent a week trying to make builds to counter this damage using non meta stuff only Pariah and Juggernaut out of how many sets are the only 2 and 1300 CP ? But only if you follow the meta for classes and builds and remember to buy those DLC's to stay the most OP and PVE 24/7 for grind CP for 3600.

3) ZOS has really lost touch of what I think is proactive players, players that still have jobs go out and travel and have fun in real life also. Cant do that and play ESO casually even as a returning vet pvper.

4.) When I first started playing in June of 2015 ESO PvP was really addicting, and I could see how people kept playing. But to be punished for not playing is confusing, in no games in history are you punished for not playing a game after 15k hours playing.

5.) ESO is NOT an Esport and never will be, yet you can compete in mechanics in which that has come down to guitar hero type of game play in trials for time and speed /supermariobros runs. Don't take ESO too serious please this is just a game and that's it.

6.) Did ZOS give up trying to get new players ? I mean they are kind of screwed limo on console only, that really sucks for them ? nobody plays other campaigns on console only one. I dont care who your class rep is or what streamer or youtuber says what. I could play PC with 800+cp but the best players aren't in nonCP so when you kill pugs it really isn't satisfying, or fun.

7.) Stam Sorcs mains couldn't be in a worse spot since launch if you are trying to compete. - Hurricane keeps getting nerfed, timing and buffs is way to short, 2h burst playstyles in players is favored now. like when did it start being about burst 24/7 and dots get slammed ? Oh that because of lag you hate dots because of the servers still ? So the fix was to favor one playstyle over all of them ? Great job ZOS 👍

8.) I have 15k hours on this game, so to see it develop into this is sad. I kept playing from VR14 to 1267CP and the 1st Stam Sorc GO on PS4NA, ZOS said they will never move the market cap of CP 2 years ago. So something had to have changed big time for them to do that, all I can say from a marketing perspective that ZOS has given up on balancing the game. Seems there focus is only confusing emotional people into keep playing there game because of so called friends they never met in real life, and will probably never meet that's just weird.

9.) If I do play again - it will only be on PC and ill have to pay a ton of money just to buy every chapter again and stay in PVE for a good 6 months grinding CP to 3600 because lets face it its ZOS.

So I have to ask myself what kind of depression to I need to be in to that ? 😂

10.) And finally I hope we can have an ESO classic and pick a server of an update/version you'd like to play on that would be so insanely fun, Id go with 1.8 or 1.9 that was good times. And advice to the returning old players. I'm sorry you are in the state of mind you are in to grind this again, remember your time is worth more than money so choose it wisely. Stay positive and happy my friends go outside and be active a bit, life is beautiful !

---- I'm out I
🎤

Xuhora · June 2021

sooo arround 4 to 6 of your points are centered arround the CP 3600 cap while the whole forum and the playerbase is speaking about how little incentive there is now to farm CPs because frankly they arent worth a dime? did i get that right?

WeylandLabs · June 2021

Xuhora wrote: »

sooo arround 4 to 6 of your points are centered arround the CP 3600 cap while the whole forum and the playerbase is speaking about how little incentive there is now to farm CPs because frankly they arent worth a dime? did i get that right?

Well ZOS just made 3600 CP end game correct ?

And at 3600 you should be the strongest player in the game - correct ?

So in theory if you have 3600CP the game could be easy to run through why would I waste my time trying to do everything at a lower CP level now ? If rather push for 3600 CP faster and have everything be done to do any trial dun and PvP would be pretty easy. If ZOS does give older sets a chance at PvP then I grind to 3600CP choose what ever class race ZOS buffs again to sale DLC's or Chapters run that gear and MidMax. Easy your the strongest player in the game in 6 months with a job 3 months without.

I'm sorry but I know what its like to play mmorpg's and not be at max cap or still grinding stuff... When I first started to grind to @vr14 it took me 2 weeks because having a job is real then not being able to compete is awful in a game. I play the game for PvP not PVE dont care about dungeons or stories or lore I'm sorry I'm not built that way. But I really dont think I will push for 3600cp, I'm debating giving my stuff away on console right now. Because its been 6 years on console and 7 on PC the game for my type of playing isn't getting better and hasn't.

WeylandLabs · June 2021

Xuhora wrote: »

sooo arround 4 to 6 of your points are centered arround the CP 3600 cap while the whole forum and the playerbase is speaking about how little incentive there is now to farm CPs because frankly they arent worth a dime? did i get that right?

Also seems players now push CP to drive up the damage in abilities and the sets are just complements not the real killer.

CP + The Strongest "forever broken" abilities = EZ WINS the only things that changed is the sets dont semi carry anymore CP does now.

Sets only kill PUGS ! ZOS lost its creativity and now they are slowly homogenizing things to match. Players today are more logical than creative and we cant have the players being able to theorycraft, so lets make everything the same. 😂

Xuhora · June 2021

unfortunatly your first two statements are not correct...

the vertical progression halts way way waaaay earlier than 3600. since you can only slot 4 actives and the usefull passives are rather limited. now i wont state a number, since i dont know the exact tipping point, neither do i want to know. but i believe arround 1100 CPs you are maxed out for your role. this could vary in PVP since you might want to have more defensive passives, regardless it should not take you more than 1500 CPs.

what comes after that is horizontal progression, which allows you to specc for different roles in the same character.

if you are interested there should be plenty of threads regarding that topic.

i think your rant is somewhat justified, but by far with way less than 10 things. and you dont have to be sorry if you play the game the way you do, there is no wrong way. i dont care about lore and quests either, im here for PVE endgame. im sitting at 1380 CPs and i feel pretty maxed out. allthough, as i said, may vary for PVP aspects.

dubbmixx · June 2021

Can i have your stuff?

WeylandLabs · June 2021

Xuhora wrote: »

unfortunatly your first two statements are not correct...

the vertical progression halts way way waaaay earlier than 3600. since you can only slot 4 actives and the usefull passives are rather limited. now i wont state a number, since i dont know the exact tipping point, neither do i want to know. but i believe arround 1100 CPs you are maxed out for your role. this could vary in PVP since you might want to have more defensive passives, regardless it should not take you more than 1500 CPs.

what comes after that is horizontal progression, which allows you to specc for different roles in the same character.

if you are interested there should be plenty of threads regarding that topic.

i think your rant is somewhat justified, but by far with way less than 10 things. and you dont have to be sorry if you play the game the way you do, there is no wrong way. i dont care about lore and quests either, im here for PVE endgame. im sitting at 1380 CPs and i feel pretty maxed out. although, as i said, may vary for PVP aspects.

For sure I see your point my friend, PvP is what I always focused on not PvE. I still can do dun and trails with my old gear but its boring to me. The only thing I think is fascinating is PvP and knowing why this person killed me or how I killed them. I enjoy the understanding of players builds and playstyles.

Take away theorycrafting and that's what made this fun for me not killing the players, its finding a build that is great and using it. It's like a reward for thinking outside the box, but if you make everything the same there's no reward only players spamming the most OP things in the game and having the highest CP to max it.

But I get your PvE point I dont have a problem with PvE I have a problem with everyone running the same sets and classes races and abilities. There used to be diversity and being able to counter things. It's like ZOS dont understand what returning PvP players will have to do to compete again. There logic behind what a player will do is mad, I have to go back to the patch notes the year and update I quit and read what they changed then read the next and the next and the next ?

Like really what are you doing ? Some players only PvE to PVP ? But its marketing and maybe they are trying to get rid of PvP because its too hard to balance for them i really dont know.

WeylandLabs · June 2021

dubbmixx wrote: »

Can i have your stuff?

lol

You on PSNA ? Give me a day and I'll hook you up ...

dubbmixx · June 2021

PSNA and PCNA Thanks! Hahah
I feel you tho, like a pinball machine this game.

Jackey · June 2021

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

1.) Certain classes and builds now allow you to animation cancel not other ones as tested.

Some ultimates received cast times and they also changed how animations play when being cancelled.
Not sure about it not working on certain cllasses. Seems to work just fine on instant cast abilities.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Damage is like WTF I spent a week trying to make builds to counter this damage using non meta stuff only Pariah and Juggernaut out of how many sets are the only 2 and 1300 CP ? But only if you follow the meta for classes and builds and remember to buy those DLC's to stay the most OP and PVE 24/7 for grind CP for 3600.

TTK is quite insane right now. The reason for that is they gave everyone 1000 base weapon/spell damage and nerfed resistances by a lot.

CP3600 is completely unnecessary unless you're a completions.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

ZOS has really lost touch of what I think is proactive players, players that still have jobs go out and travel and have fun in real life also. Cant do that and play ESO casually even as a returning vet pvper.

IDK about that. I play PvP pretty casually because of the exact reasons you mentioned and I'm able to do well.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

When I first started playing in June of 2015 ESO PvP was really addicting, and I could see how people kept playing. But to be punished for not playing is confusing, in no games in history are you punished for not playing a game after 15k hours playing.

Again, not really true. Just leave 2015 behind, try to adjust to 2021 and you'll be fine in there too.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

ESO is NOT an Esport and never will be, yet you can compete in mechanics in which that has come down to guitar hero type of game play in trials for time and speed /supermariobros runs. Don't take ESO too serious please this is just a game and that's it.

I agree, I avoid that part of the game thanks to all the elitism and toxicity.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Did ZOS give up trying to get new players ?

I don't think so I see new players in overland all the time, PvP is just not that inclusive for new players so I assume they just avoid it.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Stam Sorcs mains couldn't be in a worse spot since launch if you are trying to compete. - Hurricane keeps getting nerfed, timing and buffs is way to short, 2h burst playstyles in players is favored now. like when did it start being about burst 24/7 and dots get slammed ? Oh that because of lag you hate dots because of the servers still ? So the fix was to favor one playstyle over all of them ? Great job ZOS 👍

Stamsorcs are actually pretty good in the current meta. Super speedy and a bunch of burst damage.
Burst if favoured now because players can outheal and/or purge dots, which unfortunately makes classes like magdk pretty bad currently.
Maybe it's to reduce lag? Who knows. But I do know that we complained about the previous tank meta for a long time and now its gone.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

8.)

No comment.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

If I do play again - it will only be on PC and ill have to pay a ton of money just to buy every chapter again and stay in PVE for a good 6 months grinding CP to 3600 because lets face it its ZOS.

It's pointless to reach 3600. You'll be pretty much maxed at 1200.

WeylandLabs · June 2021

Jackey wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

1.) Certain classes and builds now allow you to animation cancel not other ones as tested.

Some ultimates received cast times and they also changed how animations play when being cancelled.
Not sure about it not working on certain cllasses. Seems to work just fine on instant cast abilities.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Damage is like WTF I spent a week trying to make builds to counter this damage using non meta stuff only Pariah and Juggernaut out of how many sets are the only 2 and 1300 CP ? But only if you follow the meta for classes and builds and remember to buy those DLC's to stay the most OP and PVE 24/7 for grind CP for 3600.

TTK is quite insane right now. The reason for that is they gave everyone 1000 base weapon/spell damage and nerfed resistances by a lot.

CP3600 is completely unnecessary unless you're a completions.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

ZOS has really lost touch of what I think is proactive players, players that still have jobs go out and travel and have fun in real life also. Cant do that and play ESO casually even as a returning vet pvper.

IDK about that. I play PvP pretty casually because of the exact reasons you mentioned and I'm able to do well.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

When I first started playing in June of 2015 ESO PvP was really addicting, and I could see how people kept playing. But to be punished for not playing is confusing, in no games in history are you punished for not playing a game after 15k hours playing.

Again, not really true. Just leave 2015 behind, try to adjust to 2021 and you'll be fine in there too.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

ESO is NOT an Esport and never will be, yet you can compete in mechanics in which that has come down to guitar hero type of game play in trials for time and speed /supermariobros runs. Don't take ESO too serious please this is just a game and that's it.

I agree, I avoid that part of the game thanks to all the elitism and toxicity.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Did ZOS give up trying to get new players ?

I don't think so I see new players in overland all the time, PvP is just not that inclusive for new players so I assume they just avoid it.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Stam Sorcs mains couldn't be in a worse spot since launch if you are trying to compete. - Hurricane keeps getting nerfed, timing and buffs is way to short, 2h burst playstyles in players is favored now. like when did it start being about burst 24/7 and dots get slammed ? Oh that because of lag you hate dots because of the servers still ? So the fix was to favor one playstyle over all of them ? Great job ZOS 👍

Stamsorcs are actually pretty good in the current meta. Super speedy and a bunch of burst damage.
Burst if favoured now because players can outheal and/or purge dots, which unfortunately makes classes like magdk pretty bad currently.
Maybe it's to reduce lag? Who knows. But I do know that we complained about the previous tank meta for a long time and now its gone.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

8.)

No comment.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

If I do play again - it will only be on PC and ill have to pay a ton of money just to buy every chapter again and stay in PVE for a good 6 months grinding CP to 3600 because lets face it its ZOS.

It's pointless to reach 3600. You'll be pretty much maxed at 1200.

- So just slot all instant cast abilities on a class and you be OP. See my point 😂

- 1k damage ? So they are trying to make classes all burst and homogenize playstyles across the board ? So you can stop there super healing with defile now because too many people dont like it ?

- And 3600CP is pretty good giving the fact that Pariah and Juggernaut your able to save 200cp and flood that into damage in pvp with a burst playstyle. Cant have a dot playstyle ... to many people with complain about the lag again and dying because of performance.

- and you are having fun ? lol what's your build then ?

- 2015 im not comparing too, I'm simply trying to understand what is going on with the vision of ZOS. They say one thing and do the other .

- I PvE to PvP, I dont like looking at a computer screen all day and see graphics and RP.

- burst is favored now because they can out heal and or purge dots ? So WTH happened to defile was and build diversity around that ? Was it to easy or hard to heal ? Or did ZOS not understand how to balance that in the 26th burst meta. And I had no problem killing tanks because that's what defile is for ? HELLO ... and why are people in tank in PVP ? to Troll well they deserve to die then.

- And if you get to 3600 you can stop playing for a few years a not be hindered in playing content if you come back. But then it will be about sets again I'm sure. 👍

Thank for the reply that's good insight ...

Icy_Waffles · June 2021

4. How are you punished for not playing?

WeylandLabs · June 2021

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

4. How are you punished for not playing?

CP -

You can midmax damage and heals so players have to grind to 3600 cp now

Jameson18 · June 2021

I'm not sure I'm playing the same game

Jackey · June 2021

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

- So just slot all instant cast abilities on a class and you be OP. See my point 😂

I see your point but it doesn't really work like that. Everything is on a global cooldown.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

- 1k damage ? So they are trying to make classes all burst and homogenize playstyles across the board ? So you can stop there super healing with defile now because too many people dont like it ?

It was a replacement for the nerfs to damage that everyone received after CP2.0. The end result is PvE got nerfed and PvP damage went through the roof.
Defile received a nerf some time back if I remember so it's not as commonly used anymore.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

- And 3600CP is pretty good giving the fact that Pariah and Juggernaut your able to save 200cp and flood that into damage in pvp with a burst playstyle. Cant have a dot playstyle ... to many people with complain about the lag again and dying because of performance.

- and you are having fun ? lol what's your build then ?

DKs with dots are still one of the best counters against magsorcs. It's not entirely useless. But why play that when you can be OP with a stamden or stamcro. Or gank players as a nightblade. This patch favours stamina burst builds which is very unfortunate.

And god forbid someone having fun lol.
I play a light armored magplar most of the time. It's not the best or the easiest but it works for me.

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

- burst is favored now because they can out heal and or purge dots ? So WTH happened to defile was and build diversity around that ? Was it to easy or hard to heal ? Or did ZOS not understand how to balance that in the 26th burst meta. And I had no problem killing tanks because that's what defile is for ? HELLO ... and why are people in tank in PVP ? to Troll well they deserve to die then.

The tank meta was to get max resistances and stack proc sets and malacath to be an unkillable tank while also being able to deal high damage. Wardens and Necros were the best at doing it. It was ridiculous.

Luckylancer · June 2021

You contradicted your self OP

Ippokrates · June 2021

After the last change you can max out all important things ca. around 1200 CP.

Everything more is just good for juggling perks ^^

Crood_Oyl · June 2021

I’m not convinced OP is understanding the CP comments properly…. 1200CP is basically max. The system changed and now you have passives and the option of 4 slottables. At 1200CP you have enough to max out all the passives and 4 slottables of your choosing.

If you want to change your build, you can just pay 3000 gold and change which slottables you want.

Having more CP than 1200 only means you start being able to not spend the 3000 gold to reassign. Nothing more. No other benefits.

Alcast · June 2021

You can farm 3600 Champion Points but you max out at around 1600. Without roleplay passives you can have a powerful setup with around 1200-1300 Champion Points.

In addition to that, they also made it a lot easier to farm champion points according to the new Champion Points experience table.

For more info please visit the Champion Point Overview Page.

AmoralOne · June 2021

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

5.) ESO is NOT an Esport and never will be, yet you can compete in mechanics in which that has come down to guitar hero type of game play in trials for time and speed /supermariobros runs. Don't take ESO too serious please this is just a game and that's it.

8.) I have 15k hours on this game, so to see it develop into this is sad. I kept playing from VR14 to 1267CP and the 1st Stam Sorc GO on PS4NA, ZOS said they will never move the market cap of CP 2 years ago. So something had to have changed big time for them to do that, all I can say from a marketing perspective that ZOS has given up on balancing the game. Seems there focus is only confusing emotional people into keep playing there game because of so called friends they never met in real life, and will probably never meet that's just weird.

10.) And finally I hope we can have an ESO classic and pick a server of an update/version you'd like to play on that would be so insanely fun, Id go with 1.8 or 1.9 that was good times. And advice to the returning old players. I'm sorry you are in the state of mind you are in to grind this again, remember your time is worth more than money so choose it wisely. Stay positive and happy my friends go outside and be active a bit, life is beautiful !

Such a whiney post lol the only points worth commenting about are these 3

5) Im glad ESO is competitive / you should be rewarded for pressing your rotation better than someone else. Do please take it serious. If you want to be a casual player thats totally fine, but dont come here and complain when you get wiped by someone that is sweaty.

8) They changed the entire CP system before they raised the CP cap - if you remove your role play passive you can have an end game PvP build at 1200-1300 cp

10) this is dumb. There isnt enough players playing ESO to let everyone do this. You shouldnt try to patronize people, if we dont want to go outside, and be active, and choose to play this game in all of our free time we shouldnt be judged for it. You dont dictate other peoples life.

Joy_Division · June 2021

If the 10 things you listed were the 10 most annoying things about PvP, then Cyrodiil would be an awesome place and I'd probably would never leave it.

Most of your complaints involve CP and this idea that if you're not at 3600, you're getting punished or at a discernible disadvantage. Take it from us people who have played with the new system rather than your memories of the old system, your assessments are not correct. If you have about 1200, you can compete just fine and you are not at a disadvantage. If you want to know why, go ahead and look at all the PTS threads from when the new CP system was implemented.

Stam sorcs are pretty decent. They're not wardens/necros, but their survivability is quite good and stamina gameplay is very strong in a smallscale setting. This is an L2P issue.

You are also quite mistaken in believing that CP carries players more than sets. You really need to read the commentary and feedback about the CP changes and stop assuming the new CP is just some minor rework of the previous system.

burst is favored now because they can out heal and or purge dots ? So WTH happened to defile was and build diversity around that ? Was it to easy or hard to heal ? Or did ZOS not understand how to balance that in the 26th burst meta. And I had no problem killing tanks because that's what defile is for ? HELLO ... and why are people in tank in PVP ? to Troll well they deserve to die then.

Yes and (mostly) no. Burst is favored now (as it has been for years) because the amount of overall damage is extremely high. And any decent player is going to run around in 30K+ health because of that. If you run around in your 2016 build, you're going to get hit for 9K surprise attacks and 14K merciless procs (by the way, this is not CP driven; you'll get rekt in no CP too). Also, half the classes in the game now have cleanse as a class skill and, well, why are you putting a small DoT on a 35K health opponent when you're spammable does 9K in the first place? By the time your DoTs make a dent in that 35K health, the fight is over one way or the other.

As far as what happened to defile and the build diversity, nothing because there was no build diversity back then. You either ran defile and completely neutered your opponent's healing or you didn't and played with one hand behind your back. People tank in PVP because it is a legitimate playstyle and that is something they enjoy. Maybe they thought the same of defile meta-humpers that invalidated their defensive skills with just a single status effect or a gear set proc? In any event, that debate is rather academic now because in this latest update damage is high enough to bring down the vast majority of PvP tanks.