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Thanks for adding Health Recovery to Battle Spirit. One thing though...
milllaurie
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As the title says - I am really glad devs came to their senses and added HP recov to battle spirit.
HP recov was affected by defile so was considered a form of healing, so now it's consistent on all levels.
It was also a source of free healing, which was very rewarding for the user since it let them make a lot more mistakes.
But anyone who has a longer short term memory span than a goldfish can remember that Troll King monster set and Alessian Order heavy pvp set were nerfed because they were over performing in pvp. Now that Health recovery is nerfed as such, it would only make sense to consider changing health recovery sets so you wouldn't have to choose between: useless, utterly useless, or decon.
Anyway, I think that making changes to battle spirit is the way to go for balancing sets PVP-PVE wise.
Other MMORPG games have this tooltip mechanic: "Does X damage (Y damage in pvp)" - separate pvp tooltip in brackets. This would further enhance the ability to make more accurate changes to balance.
Because how I see it now: it is a chopping block and a nerfhammer: Let's Increase Major recovery buffs from 20 to 40%! Sh**, it's OP, let's chop it to 30%! Okay, here's a ring that allows you to be a 40k HP tank and a shiny staff that lets you have free damage on a free skill! Oh noes, it does not make any sense, sowwy... Troll king OP, let's nerf it by half! Okay, now let's do the HP recovery by half, HERE WE FINE-TUNED PVP FOR YOU. Well, don't you see a problem here?
Adding a new concept of, for example "Skirmish Spirit" in Battlegrounds, would enable to fine tune sets and abilities for bgs too, it might also enable a version of CP battlegrounds with a different set of rules (like further reduced healing, maybe an HP cap or even ban of using particular abilities such as hard defensive ults).
HP recov was affected by defile so was considered a form of healing, so now it's consistent on all levels.
It was also a source of free healing, which was very rewarding for the user since it let them make a lot more mistakes.
But anyone who has a longer short term memory span than a goldfish can remember that Troll King monster set and Alessian Order heavy pvp set were nerfed because they were over performing in pvp. Now that Health recovery is nerfed as such, it would only make sense to consider changing health recovery sets so you wouldn't have to choose between: useless, utterly useless, or decon.
Anyway, I think that making changes to battle spirit is the way to go for balancing sets PVP-PVE wise.
Other MMORPG games have this tooltip mechanic: "Does X damage (Y damage in pvp)" - separate pvp tooltip in brackets. This would further enhance the ability to make more accurate changes to balance.
Because how I see it now: it is a chopping block and a nerfhammer: Let's Increase Major recovery buffs from 20 to 40%! Sh**, it's OP, let's chop it to 30%! Okay, here's a ring that allows you to be a 40k HP tank and a shiny staff that lets you have free damage on a free skill! Oh noes, it does not make any sense, sowwy... Troll king OP, let's nerf it by half! Okay, now let's do the HP recovery by half, HERE WE FINE-TUNED PVP FOR YOU. Well, don't you see a problem here?
Adding a new concept of, for example "Skirmish Spirit" in Battlegrounds, would enable to fine tune sets and abilities for bgs too, it might also enable a version of CP battlegrounds with a different set of rules (like further reduced healing, maybe an HP cap or even ban of using particular abilities such as hard defensive ults).
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gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Health recovery wasn't an issue in no cpPC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
sabresandiego_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭gariondavey wrote: »Health recovery wasn't an issue in no cp
Actually it kind of was. It was making dots incredibly ineffective compared to burst and was also stalemating matches with healers. I see people dying slightly faster now which is good.Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade2 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Troll King and Alessian were nerfed because they were strong, and now they are further nerfing health recovery because it is too strong. So buffing those set would be counterintuitive since they deemed it too strong even after nerfing them.4 -
milllaurie✭✭✭✭Troll King and Alessian were nerfed because they were strong, and now they are further nerfing health recovery because it is too strong. So buffing those set would be counterintuitive since they deemed it too strong even after nerfing them.
Yeah but they were nerfed before health recovey nerf in pvp. Now that we have 50% reduction in battle spirit they should be adjustted accordingly that's my point.
Like they should look at crit rush after all the critical chance nerfs (which were done due to power creep in pve).0 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭Players don't seem to get it.
Health recovery was never meant to surpass active healing, and it never did until sometime after Summerset.
That ZOS allowed it to get to this point, when they nerfed all active healing over and over, is ridiculous in the first place.
Health recovery in its form prior to this patch NEVER needs to return. If you want healing, then build for it and pay the opportunity cost (using a skill and paying mag or stam, or using a healing set with a CD) to do so.
Everyone that stacked hp recovery knew and knows how easy it is, except now you have to pay the price for it and lose power.
That's the core issue that players complaining about the changes have with it: that they can't have their cake, eat it, and then laugh in the face of everyone else anymore.
Yeah, no. Hard disagree.6 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Players don't seem to get it.
Health recovery was never meant to surpass active healing, and it never did until sometime after Summerset.
That ZOS allowed it to get to this point, when they nerfed all active healing over and over, is ridiculous in the first place.
Health recovery in its form prior to this patch NEVER needs to return. If you want healing, then build for it and pay the opportunity cost (using a skill and paying mag or stam, or using a healing set with a CD) to do so.
Everyone that stacked hp recovery knew and knows how easy it is, except now you have to pay the price for it and lose power.
That's the core issue that players complaining about the changes have with it: that they can't have their cake, eat it, and then laugh in the face of everyone else anymore.
Yeah, no. Hard disagree.
Guess I'm the resident contrarian then. Disagree. Hard. Lol.
For example, I built a lightning heavy attack mag dk last patch. Alessian jewels + 2 body, undaunted light armor set 3 body + 1h & s back bar, Maelstrom lightning front bar, troll king 2 light. All points into health (had around 36k if i recall correctly).
It had 4k health recovery, 5.5k if troll king popped, and a pretty decent heavy attack with molten + empower + undaunted proc + if they stay in my wall of lightning. It was a cheesy build, could dish out some good damage if the stars all aligned and had really good survivability. Would it have been better to go mag dk with skoria, vate destro, malacath, and oblivion foe? Absolutely.
It wasn't overpowered at all. It was a really fun build. But the changes to health recovery totally ruined.
My wife's dk, I set it up with bloodspawn, eternal vigor, and 7th legion. All heavy. Had about 3k health recovery, 4.5k if eternal vigor popped. Focused on weapon damage over penetration so heals were strong as well. Damage was good but not anything special. Build had really good survivability but if positioning wasn't watched or blocks kept up under pressure, death would happen very swiftly. It was a build more built around being able to stick in the fray and absorb some pressure while doing somewhat decent damage. That build is pretty weak-sauce now with the changes to eternal vigor + the health recovery nerf.
These were both bg only builds. Health recovery was strong and a good defensive measure to build into in no cp. I am pretty sure it was out of control in cp, but I don't play much in that.
I agree with you on some things, but do not agree with you or Ali Dreadsabre on this matter.Edited by gariondavey on June 6, 2021 3:11PMPC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭@ResidentContrarian building for recovery have an opportunity cost too. Now people wont build for health recovers and they will build for the next best thing. It will nerfed as well after complains.2 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Players don't seem to get it.
Health recovery was never meant to surpass active healing, and it never did until sometime after Summerset.
That ZOS allowed it to get to this point, when they nerfed all active healing over and over, is ridiculous in the first place.
Health recovery in its form prior to this patch NEVER needs to return. If you want healing, then build for it and pay the opportunity cost (using a skill and paying mag or stam, or using a healing set with a CD) to do so.
Everyone that stacked hp recovery knew and knows how easy it is, except now you have to pay the price for it and lose power.
That's the core issue that players complaining about the changes have with it: that they can't have their cake, eat it, and then laugh in the face of everyone else anymore.
Yeah, no. Hard disagree.
You are wrong about your history, pure HP Regen stacking has been around since 2016, it was the Ravenous Goliath of its day. Orgnum's Scales was one of the original 8 trait crafted sets, when there were no 9 trait crafted sets, as I recall. Around 13k was the highest you could get your HP Regen in 2016 - about as high or maybe slightly higher than any number achievable in 2020 or 2021.
What changed was the introduction of Clockwork in 17, then Takeaway in 18, then Sugar Skulls in 19, I think, offering easy access to a large integer source of HP Regen for everybody, not just a few odd builds that most people didn't mess with.
Those few odd builds - best ran on basegame classes - are now obsolete, replaced entirely by Goliath form.
Every nerf to anything not explicitly part of the Warden and Necro toolkit is a buff to Warden and Necro - even if those classes took advantage of the thing nerfed - because they have something to replace it. The basegame class might not.
For both DKs, StamSorc, and Heavy Armor NB, more than other specs, this is a comparative loss of HPS, without compensation.
Edited by Urzigurumash on June 8, 2021 9:13AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1
