Sets that help allies?

GreenHere · June 2021

Anyone know a good list of gear sets that help out allies? And by that, I mean things that help your allies in any way -- healing, dps boost, defense, debuffing enemies, whatever. If it benefits the group (or even just nearby randoms) that's what I'm looking for.

I've tried looking around, but am struggling to find anything that seems like a comprehensive list of these "supportive-ish" sets because most sources only focus on Support sets (and often only the best ones). I'm looking for something a bit more inclusive and complete. Can someone point me in the right direction? Does what I'm looking for even exist?

So, just to help clarify further, here's the off-the-top-of-my-head list that I've got so far (which is what I'm looking to fill in):

Spell Power Cure -- Gives allies MAJOR Courage on overhealing
Vestments of Olorime -- Ground proc applies MAJOR Courage to allies who pass through it
Claws of Yolnahkriin -- Gives nearby allies Minor Courage after using any Taunt skill
Kinras's Wrath -- Aura that gives Minor Berserk to allies (MAJOR Berserk to self)
Elemental Catalyst -- Applies unique debuff that increases targets Critical Damage Taken
Powerful Assault -- Applies unique buff to allies which boosts Weapon & Spell Damage
Hollowfang's Thirst -- Ground proc that applies burst heal & Magicka return
Alkosh -- Applies unique debuff to enemies' Resistances upon Synergy activation
Hircine's Veneer -- Aura which boosts nearby allies' Stamina Recovery
Worm's Raiment -- Aura which boosts nearby allies' Magicka Recovery

Grand Rejuvenation (Master's Resto) -- Grants direct Stamina & Magicka return
Void Bash -- Applies MAJOR Maim to enemies and Pulls them inward

Vykosa -- Applies MAJOR Cowardice to enemies
Earthgore -- Emergency healing for low-health allies
Lord Warden -- Ground proc applies unique Resistance buff

...and so on. Basically I'm looking for a list that rules out all "selfish" sets in order to make more semi-supportive builds for my non-Support characters. It'd be a lot easier to cobble together builds that fit the themes I'm personally aiming for while still being able to boost up or bail out my allies if I had a list of appropriate sets to choose from. Know what I mean?

amm7sb14_ESO · June 2021

I use Grave Guardian on my Necro tank. Adds resistance that stacks with Resolve to yourself and nearby group members while blocking.

I have a Warden tank with Brands of Imperium and Foolkiller, both of which apply damage shields to self and groupmates. I can stack damage shields that fill my entire health bar. Ive also used Combat Physician on this tank before.

Depending on how you define "support", there is Akaviri Dragonguard, which reduces ultimate costs, so you'll get faster ult casts which can be beneficial to the group if you are running ults like War Horn, Barrier, or a necro's Colossus.

Ebon Armory gives a health boost to the entire group.

There's a lot of off-meta sets that can benefit the group and be very useful even in vet trials. You won't see them talked about on Alcast or other build guide sites, and they aren't talked about in the community because they aren't the Yolna / Alkosh meta that everyone single mindedly subscribes to, but they can still work. I also don't subscribe to the "selfish set" narrative. By definition, tanks and healers cannot be "selfish". Even if a tank is wearing Crimson and Leeching, he is not being "selfish".

WrathOfInnos · June 2021

Add Z’en’s Redress, Martial Knowledge, Stone-Talker’s Oath, Master Architect, War Machine, Roaring Opportunist (usually paired with Jorvuld’s), Symphony of Blades, Encratis’ Behemoth, Tremorscale, Morag Tong. Maybe count Lady Thorn for its defensive buff that stacks with Vykosa. There’s also Vrol, Automated Defense and Inventors Guard for the rarely-needed Major Aegis. Meritorious Service is another rarely used defensive one.

GreenHere · June 2021

Thanks for the suggestions to add to the list, @WrathOfInnos & @amm7sb14_ESO

Not sure if this thread just didn't get traction, or if the kind of list I'm looking for simply isn't already out there. Was really hoping not to have to do it myself basically from scratch. :P

etchedpixels · June 2021

Battalion defender is a tank staple, there are loads of others

It is however basically 'religion' rather than actual science in ESO that wearing group support sets is the right thing to do, and that they necessarily provides more support than wearing selfish sets.

Case in point: On a magicka templar tanking I can have loads of magicka and wear a selfish health set, or I can have loads more in health, far less magicka and wear a support set like Battalion defender. Which is better - having the magicka and being able to do group heals with my templar skills or having the proc set do heals when it feels like ?

More subtle case - some of my tanks wear hatchlings shell which is sort of selfish but on the other hand the continuous shielding allows the healer to worry about others and do a lot more DPS - so is that really selfish or not ?

It's far from clear cut, and with the massive over-nerf of proc sets this update the case for wearing a lot of these sets is now even weaker except for in big groups with sets that scale across the group in ways skills sometimes don't.

GreenHere · June 2021

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I also don't subscribe to the "selfish set" narrative. By definition, tanks and healers cannot be "selfish". Even if a tank is wearing Crimson and Leeching, he is not being "selfish".

For what it's worth, people don't generally mean "selfish" in the way that has the negative connotation that you'd normally associate with the word when they're talking about gear sets in ESO. It's mostly just shorthand for "sets that don't directly buff/support/affect your allies" and that is a useful distinction to use when talking shop about Support role builds.

It probably would have been better if the community had settled on a different word to avoid the negative associations, but good luck trying to change widespread internet lingo, ya know? :P

Just kinda gotta figure which one people mean through context and see what they're trying to say rather than getting hung up on possibly rude/negative spins that could be inferred, I've found. It used to trip me up at first, too. People are seldom purposefully casting "you're being selfish for wearing these sets" -type accusations around when talking about things like Plague Doctor and whatnot. It's mostly just unfortunate word choice, IMO.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Depending on how you define "support", there is Akaviri Dragonguard, which reduces ultimate costs, so you'll get faster ult casts which can be beneficial to the group if you are running ults like War Horn, Barrier, or a necro's Colossus.

Yeah, I was considering those sort of "grey area" sets as well. If I end up compiling my own list I think I'll separate those out, but they absolutely deserve an honorable mention since they can be used in ways that put them pretty firmly in the supportive category. Good call.

AcadianPaladin · June 2021

Winter's Respite - any AoE on the ground leaves a circle that heals group members. I loved the set until it went from helping allies to only helping group members. I won't touch a support set that won't help random nearby allies as well as group members.

amm7sb14_ESO · June 2021

etchedpixels wrote: »

Battalion defender is a tank staple, there are loads of others

It is however basically 'religion' rather than actual science in ESO that wearing group support sets is the right thing to do, and that they necessarily provides more support than wearing selfish sets.

Case in point: On a magicka templar tanking I can have loads of magicka and wear a selfish health set, or I can have loads more in health, far less magicka and wear a support set like Battalion defender. Which is better - having the magicka and being able to do group heals with my templar skills or having the proc set do heals when it feels like ?

More subtle case - some of my tanks wear hatchlings shell which is sort of selfish but on the other hand the continuous shielding allows the healer to worry about others and do a lot more DPS - so is that really selfish or not ?

It's far from clear cut, and with the massive over-nerf of proc sets this update the case for wearing a lot of these sets is now even weaker except for in big groups with sets that scale across the group in ways skills sometimes don't.

I agree with this.

I would be considered a "selfish tank" by most definitions. I run Crimson Twilight, Grave Guardian, and Lord Warden. That's what I run into my guild trial runs. My guild is not a fully optimized group, we don't micromanage parses and sets, races, classes, etc. We have a baseline we look for for vet trials so that we actually have a feasible shot at clearing, but we aren't fully min / maxing for leaderboard runs or the like.

We literally cleared a boss fight the other day solely because I was in a "selfish" setup that allowed for self sustainability, allowing me to survive solo, build ult, drop a Necro rez, let the dps do a bit of damage until they died to mechs again, solo sustain, build ult, mass rez, rinse and repeat. It was a chaotic mess that isn't how it's done by the book at all, but there was no way I was going to survive that encounter if I was decked out in Yolna / Alkosh, and no way we were getting past that fight.

I absolutely agree that a "selfish" tank allows the healers to focus their resources and energies on the rest of the group, allowing DPS to drop self heals and focus more on damage, etc.

Just another part of the reason why I say tanks cannot be selfish, by definition. Whatever they do is helping the group on some level. There is more to support than just mindlessly wearing Yolna / Alkosh to buff damage.

amm7sb14_ESO · June 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I also don't subscribe to the "selfish set" narrative. By definition, tanks and healers cannot be "selfish". Even if a tank is wearing Crimson and Leeching, he is not being "selfish".

For what it's worth, people don't generally mean "selfish" in the way that has the negative connotation that you'd normally associate with the word when they're talking about gear sets in ESO. It's mostly just shorthand for "sets that don't directly buff/support/affect your allies" and that is a useful distinction to use when talking shop about Support role builds.

It probably would have been better if the community had settled on a different word to avoid the negative associations, but good luck trying to change widespread internet lingo, ya know? :P

Just kinda gotta figure which one people mean through context and see what they're trying to say rather than getting hung up on possibly rude/negative spins that could be inferred, I've found. It used to trip me up at first, too. People are seldom purposefully casting "you're being selfish for wearing these sets" -type accusations around when talking about things like Plague Doctor and whatnot. It's mostly just unfortunate word choice, IMO.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree that it's a matter of misinterpreted semantics. I have literally had people tell me, on this very forum, as well as on ESO social media groups, that they "feel sorry for my guild for letting me tank for them" because of my setups. Never mind the fact that my guild is not a min / max power guild, we don't shoot for leaderboards and just enjoy the added challenge of vets, they like me tanking and like me tanking the way that I do tank, and we have vet level clears.

I have never seen "selfish tanks" referred to as just tanks using sets that don't directly aid the group. I have always seen it said with disdain and dismissal of people who use those sets, and I have directly seen it stated that if you are a tank without Yolna / Alkosh, you aren't really a tank.

I am very pro-off meta builds, and I am very pro-there is more to support than just buffing DPS.

But I digress.

The original point of the post was asking about a different list of support style sets. As a tank myself, I typically focus more on the tank sets. One that I am intrigued by is the new tank set in Rockvale. Saxhleel Champion. When you use an ultimate, the group gets Major Force for 1 second per 15 ultimate spent. As a necro tank, I have some expensive ultimates, which would give for some lengthy Major Force uptimes.

A healer set that I like is Jorvuld's from SCP. Increases the duration of major / minor buffs and damage shields by 40%

That's a couple others that I like.

jdamuso · June 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

Anyone know a good list of gear sets that help out allies? And by that, I mean things that help your allies in any way -- healing, dps boost, defense, debuffing enemies, whatever. If it benefits the group (or even just nearby randoms) that's what I'm looking for.

If you're not thinking about combat physician as a full support, yer not doin it right

GreenHere · June 2021

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I also don't subscribe to the "selfish set" narrative. By definition, tanks and healers cannot be "selfish". Even if a tank is wearing Crimson and Leeching, he is not being "selfish".

For what it's worth, people don't generally mean "selfish" in the way that has the negative connotation that you'd normally associate with the word when they're talking about gear sets in ESO. It's mostly just shorthand for "sets that don't directly buff/support/affect your allies" and that is a useful distinction to use when talking shop about Support role builds.

It probably would have been better if the community had settled on a different word to avoid the negative associations, but good luck trying to change widespread internet lingo, ya know? :P

Just kinda gotta figure which one people mean through context and see what they're trying to say rather than getting hung up on possibly rude/negative spins that could be inferred, I've found. It used to trip me up at first, too. People are seldom purposefully casting "you're being selfish for wearing these sets" -type accusations around when talking about things like Plague Doctor and whatnot. It's mostly just unfortunate word choice, IMO.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree that it's a matter of misinterpreted semantics. I have literally had people tell me, on this very forum, as well as on ESO social media groups, that they "feel sorry for my guild for letting me tank for them" because of my setups. Never mind the fact that my guild is not a min / max power guild, we don't shoot for leaderboards and just enjoy the added challenge of vets, they like me tanking and like me tanking the way that I do tank, and we have vet level clears.

I have never seen "selfish tanks" referred to as just tanks using sets that don't directly aid the group. I have always seen it said with disdain and dismissal of people who use those sets, and I have directly seen it stated that if you are a tank without Yolna / Alkosh, you aren't really a tank.

I am very pro-off meta builds, and I am very pro-there is more to support than just buffing DPS.

But I digress.

No, not at all! I like these sort of tangential discussions in threads, honestly. I learn a lot this way.

I found your posts fair and accurate. I agree with you that there are folks out there who use "selfish" as some kind of scathing pejorative against tanks that *gasp!* want to stay alive no matter what so that they can support their group by doing their job. (The nerve!) I generally find those folks to be asinine jerks, but we got no shortage of those on the internet do we?

Luckily for me I guess, I seldom run into that in my travels, though. Usually when I encounter the term selfish it's meant as a helpful distinction for how sets function, rather than a rude descriptor for a player or build style. Sorry to hear you've had different (and worse) experiences. FWIW, sounds to me like your style of tanking is kind of awesome, and sounds like a lot of fun!

And thanks for the helpful input on random sets that might slip under my radar. It's looking a lot like I'm just gonna need to make the list myself if I want to find what I'm looking for. Y'all's input certainly helps!

(And yeah, Saxhleel Champ looks promising! I'm always happy to see more ways to bestow Major Force so we can unshackle Supports from War Horn and free up more build diversity. Good call. Jorvuld's is also definitely a worthy addition to the quasi-category of sets that help without directly affecting allies. Noted!)

GreenHere · June 2021

jdamuso wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Anyone know a good list of gear sets that help out allies? And by that, I mean things that help your allies in any way -- healing, dps boost, defense, debuffing enemies, whatever. If it benefits the group (or even just nearby randoms) that's what I'm looking for.

If you're not thinking about combat physician as a full support, yer not doin it right

I've always wanted to like that set due to the kind of cool name, but the proc is just not really something that has ever wowed me. Even with the improvements they (eventually) made to it, it seems a bit weak for a 5-piece bonus when we have thing like Ice Blockade giving people a comparable shield on demand & with no cooldown. Kind of makes CP's effect feel a bit outclassed, except in situations where allies are scattered and you can't reliably hit them with targeted/ground stuff.

I'd definitely be on board a bandwagon campaigning for a better Combat Physician set bonus. Or even another buff.

Either way, it definitely goes on the list as a set that directly assists your homies.

GreenHere · June 2021

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Winter's Respite - any AoE on the ground leaves a circle that heals group members. I loved the set until it went from helping allies to only helping group members. I won't touch a support set that won't help random nearby allies as well as group members.

Winter's Respite definitely qualifies, thanks!

Yeah, it's a shame so many sets seem to be eschewing helping out people who aren't grouped with you now. I don't love this trend. At all. Is there a good reason they're doing this, anyway? PvP, I assume?

Agenericname · June 2021

Drake's Rush, Sentinels, Brands of Imperium, Chokethorn and Nightflame if you consider their proc similar to Earthgore, Galenwe's. Havent seen those mentioned yet, though I may have overlooked.

GreenHere · June 2021

etchedpixels wrote: »

Battalion defender is a tank staple, there are loads of others

It is however basically 'religion' rather than actual science in ESO that wearing group support sets is the right thing to do, and that they necessarily provides more support than wearing selfish sets.

Case in point: On a magicka templar tanking I can have loads of magicka and wear a selfish health set, or I can have loads more in health, far less magicka and wear a support set like Battalion defender. Which is better - having the magicka and being able to do group heals with my templar skills or having the proc set do heals when it feels like ?

More subtle case - some of my tanks wear hatchlings shell which is sort of selfish but on the other hand the continuous shielding allows the healer to worry about others and do a lot more DPS - so is that really selfish or not ?

It's far from clear cut, and with the massive over-nerf of proc sets this update the case for wearing a lot of these sets is now even weaker except for in big groups with sets that scale across the group in ways skills sometimes don't.

I'd absolutely call Hatchling's a selfish set since it only directly affects the wearer (and thus it would not make my list), but I mean it in the way that is only addressing its function -- I definitely don't automatically assume tanks that wear it are selfish or bad or whatever. But I already blabbered on above about my take on "selfish" when it comes to discussing Support sets, so I'll leave it at that, haha.

And I agree with you that more supportive sets doesn't always equal better. People do follow that "rule" way too blindly at times. I've for sure seen Damage Dealers get too caught up in insisting Tanks/healers wear sets that boost their DPS by ~10%, while totally losing sight of the fact that in many cases it's just better to boost the entire group's DPS by 40% by being more "selfish" or whatever. Screw those guys though, right? :P

I made this thread hoping to find a list to easily browse for making my own weird setups -- setups I tune almost exclusively for theme/style and goofing around duo'ing dungeons with a friend. Definitely not seeking meta here.

GreenHere · June 2021

Agenericname wrote: »

Drake's Rush, Sentinels, Brands of Imperium, Chokethorn and Nightflame if you consider their proc similar to Earthgore, Galenwe's. Havent seen those mentioned yet, though I may have overlooked.

Thanks! They all qualify, no doubt!

But I think I made a mistake in providing that partial list as an illustrative example. Now everyone's helping me add onto it, but what I really wanted was to be lazy and look at a list someone else had already put the work into!

Guess this project is now on my to-do list. :P

amm7sb14_ESO · June 2021

jdamuso wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Anyone know a good list of gear sets that help out allies? And by that, I mean things that help your allies in any way -- healing, dps boost, defense, debuffing enemies, whatever. If it benefits the group (or even just nearby randoms) that's what I'm looking for.

If you're not thinking about combat physician as a full support, yer not doin it right

I used to run Combat Physician on my Warden tank. Arctic Wind health scaled ally heal + Combat Physician proc

I've since replaced Combat Physician with Foolkiller to have a little more control over the damage shields (as well as actually being a tanky set plus the recovery benefits from ***), but I did greatly enjoy Combat Physician while I had it.

Agenericname · June 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Drake's Rush, Sentinels, Brands of Imperium, Chokethorn and Nightflame if you consider their proc similar to Earthgore, Galenwe's. Havent seen those mentioned yet, though I may have overlooked.

Thanks! They all qualify, no doubt!

But I think I made a mistake in providing that partial list as an illustrative example. Now everyone's helping me add onto it, but what I really wanted was to be lazy and look at a list someone else had already put the work into!

Guess this project is now on my to-do list. :P

I almost added a line at the end of my post thanking you for taking this on

amm7sb14_ESO · June 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I also don't subscribe to the "selfish set" narrative. By definition, tanks and healers cannot be "selfish". Even if a tank is wearing Crimson and Leeching, he is not being "selfish".

For what it's worth, people don't generally mean "selfish" in the way that has the negative connotation that you'd normally associate with the word when they're talking about gear sets in ESO. It's mostly just shorthand for "sets that don't directly buff/support/affect your allies" and that is a useful distinction to use when talking shop about Support role builds.

It probably would have been better if the community had settled on a different word to avoid the negative associations, but good luck trying to change widespread internet lingo, ya know? :P

Just kinda gotta figure which one people mean through context and see what they're trying to say rather than getting hung up on possibly rude/negative spins that could be inferred, I've found. It used to trip me up at first, too. People are seldom purposefully casting "you're being selfish for wearing these sets" -type accusations around when talking about things like Plague Doctor and whatnot. It's mostly just unfortunate word choice, IMO.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree that it's a matter of misinterpreted semantics. I have literally had people tell me, on this very forum, as well as on ESO social media groups, that they "feel sorry for my guild for letting me tank for them" because of my setups. Never mind the fact that my guild is not a min / max power guild, we don't shoot for leaderboards and just enjoy the added challenge of vets, they like me tanking and like me tanking the way that I do tank, and we have vet level clears.

I have never seen "selfish tanks" referred to as just tanks using sets that don't directly aid the group. I have always seen it said with disdain and dismissal of people who use those sets, and I have directly seen it stated that if you are a tank without Yolna / Alkosh, you aren't really a tank.

I am very pro-off meta builds, and I am very pro-there is more to support than just buffing DPS.

But I digress.

No, not at all! I like these sort of tangential discussions in threads, honestly. I learn a lot this way.

I found your posts fair and accurate. I agree with you that there are folks out there who use "selfish" as some kind of scathing pejorative against tanks that *gasp!* want to stay alive no matter what so that they can support their group by doing their job. (The nerve!) I generally find those folks to be asinine jerks, but we got no shortage of those on the internet do we?

Luckily for me I guess, I seldom run into that in my travels, though. Usually when I encounter the term selfish it's meant as a helpful distinction for how sets function, rather than a rude descriptor for a player or build style. Sorry to hear you've had different (and worse) experiences. FWIW, sounds to me like your style of tanking is kind of awesome, and sounds like a lot of fun!

And thanks for the helpful input on random sets that might slip under my radar. It's looking a lot like I'm just gonna need to make the list myself if I want to find what I'm looking for. Y'all's input certainly helps!

(And yeah, Saxhleel Champ looks promising! I'm always happy to see more ways to bestow Major Force so we can unshackle Supports from War Horn and free up more build diversity. Good call. Jorvuld's is also definitely a worthy addition to the quasi-category of sets that help without directly affecting allies. Noted!)

I definitely hear what you're saying about the distinction between "selfish bad" and "selfish neutral descriptor".

That said, even with the more positive / neutral definition, I still don't really consider myself a selfish tank, because between 2 tanks that I run, and the 6 sets between them (2 5 piece sets and 1 monster set each), only one of them is a set that only benefits the tank (Crimson Twilight on my Necro tank - and I am using that set because thematically, what set screams "Necro vampire tank" more than siphoning the blood of nearby enemies to heal and sustain myself?). All of the other sets I use; Grave Guardian and Lord Warden on my Necro, and Foolkiller, Brands of Imperium, and Thurvokuun on my Warden, all benefit group mates as well (I have also used Chokethorn on my Warden, since at one point he was basically a healer in a tank's body, and has kept that playstyle a little bit)

But even with "selfish" sets, I still utilize a lot of group support through my abilities. Obviously, I have Breach & Fracture, Crusher, and on my Necro, I offer Minor / Major Vulnerability, Minor Protection, Empower, Maim, on top of my CC's (Fear, Immobilize from Totem and Grasp), and a little bit of supplemental DPS (Boneyard) and healing (Spirit Guardian and Enduring Undeath), and my own personal purge (Elusive Mist) allowing the healer to slot something else.

I might not be the most fully optimized trial tank, but I am capable of getting the job done, and I don't see myself as "selfish".

As I come across more sets that I remember, I'll pop back into this thread with some more ideas.