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Just to be sure, this is the year of performance and improvements, right?
Rossmann
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First of all, this is NOT a bashing thread. Even tho title could give that kind of impression.
I am just curious about how things gonna wrap up in the end of year and want to know more about what to expect.
We all know this famous article by Matt Firor, i am posting it below the part that this thread related to recall it more easily.
"You already know that the 2021 story arc is called Gates of Oblivion, and I'll leave it up to our reveal show next month to go into the specifics—but I want to highlight that in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems (with our standard content updates continuing unchanged). We will still be working from home for the foreseeable future, and I want to ensure that our 2021 updates and patches are smooth and the player experience is enjoyable. This is an ongoing process—and remember that we are usually working on updates six months or more before they launch, so when we started WFH in March, we were already working on Q3 and Q4 content, which led to the issues outlined above. We now have planned for the team working remotely for roughly the first half of 2021, so the "introduce fewer new systems" program will continue throughout 2021."
Most of the performance issues i expect to be solved-patched are:
1. Infamous overall Cyrodiil experience
2. Most known dungeon and trial bugs-glitches
3. Basic visual bugs-glitches
Blackwood is just released and despite of how smooth the release was ofc it is bringing new bugs-glitches related to new content. And I understand that new content issues gonna be prioritised.
Is there a separate devs group that specifically working on above issues or on general stability?
We are already half way through year and I wonder if we should expect at least some of those issues to be solved?
I am repeating this again, this is NOT a bash thread, i just wanna know what to expect.
I am just curious about how things gonna wrap up in the end of year and want to know more about what to expect.
We all know this famous article by Matt Firor, i am posting it below the part that this thread related to recall it more easily.
"You already know that the 2021 story arc is called Gates of Oblivion, and I'll leave it up to our reveal show next month to go into the specifics—but I want to highlight that in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems (with our standard content updates continuing unchanged). We will still be working from home for the foreseeable future, and I want to ensure that our 2021 updates and patches are smooth and the player experience is enjoyable. This is an ongoing process—and remember that we are usually working on updates six months or more before they launch, so when we started WFH in March, we were already working on Q3 and Q4 content, which led to the issues outlined above. We now have planned for the team working remotely for roughly the first half of 2021, so the "introduce fewer new systems" program will continue throughout 2021."
Most of the performance issues i expect to be solved-patched are:
1. Infamous overall Cyrodiil experience
2. Most known dungeon and trial bugs-glitches
3. Basic visual bugs-glitches
Blackwood is just released and despite of how smooth the release was ofc it is bringing new bugs-glitches related to new content. And I understand that new content issues gonna be prioritised.
Is there a separate devs group that specifically working on above issues or on general stability?
We are already half way through year and I wonder if we should expect at least some of those issues to be solved?
I am repeating this again, this is NOT a bash thread, i just wanna know what to expect.
11
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oXI_Viper_IXo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's the same song and dance every single year with the same lack of any results.
Every year they make these grand promises about focusing on performance and yet they are never able to deliver.
It doesn't matter what they say anymore or how much they promise. It's time to deliver some tangible results.
See sig for reference.49 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Most of the performance issues i expect to be solved-patched are:
1. Infamous overall Cyrodiil experience
2. Most known dungeon and trial bugs-glitches
3. Basic visual bugs-glitches
Cyrodill is easily pinpointed.
get ahold of the game build that was in place before the introduction to the "lighting" patch, take it apart, and see what huge changes differ from before and after said lighting patch.
this is when the games performance started tanking hardest.
removing most of the delves, PvE [snip] in cyrodill and then thinning how wide cyrodiil is will greatly solve alot of its performance and overall battle spread
[edited for language]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 3, 2021 1:24PMPLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.6 -
oXI_Viper_IXo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems"
This statement is so laughable... brand new CP system (which has already been reworked), companions, removal of proc sets from Cyro, rework of how proc sets scale and reintroduction to Cyro, rework of armor passives, rework of weapon passives...Edited by oXI_Viper_IXo on June 3, 2021 9:35PM16 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭No that was last year
oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »"in 2021 we will devote more time overall to stability and game performance and less time to new game systems"
This statement is so laughable... brand new CP system (which has already been reworked), companions, removal of proc sets from Cyro, rework or how proc sets scale and reintroduction to Cyro, rework of armor passives, rework of weapon passives...
To be fair to them a lot of this stuff can theoretically help with performance. In practicality of course it doesn't affect it at all.9 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They already did a year long performance improvement plan in 2019 - 2020 and while it lead to some minor improvements in loading times I'm not sure it made significant changes to performance overall.
To be honest I read that announcement as mainly just saying they're going to stick to the same number of new releases to buy but with less in each of them. It's the same thing all kinds of companies have been saying after all the disruption to everything in 2020 (and 2021), of course everyone tries to put a happy face on it and make a show of doing their best or saying what they're doing now will be as good, just different, but the upshot is effectively nothing is functioning as normal and we shouldn't expect normal results.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"3 -
etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well its hard to be sure if it's a pattern yet but character load times seem to have improved significantly - so they got something right.
I honestly don't expect to see major improvements to things overall until they get their new server farm, and even then slowly. Performance work on a large distirbuted system tends to consist of repeatedly fixing one thing to find that it merely shows up the next.
Too many toons not enough time1 -
figueroa✭✭Hoping for an improvement in performance will lead to disappointment. Zos has conditioned us due to their expertise at false promises.8
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twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I believe that writing the game to be Stadia compatible is what took our improved performance back down several notches.The problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.11 -
Slyclone✭✭✭✭So update 31 should not have any gear or stat changes whatsoever!
Just bugs and performance. And maybe overhauls of older systems such as character creation.
Then the RNG in my pockets will be adjusted to make it rain again.That's it, that's all.2 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭2020 made huge strides towards improvement actually. ZOS implemented a number of changes in the coding to address issues and it did make differences for the long term.
Problem is most players use Cyrodil as an overall barometer for how the game is performing (ridiculous to base overall game performance on such an instance). ZOS discovered basically halfway through the year that despite changes on their end to improve performance there it was essentially inconsequential. The servers were just being hammered too much by commands and calculations that are fundamentally different from what was designed for 7 years ago.
So performance changes basically had to start over with a move towards simplifying combat on the player end. Fewer server checks and fewer player inputs is the new goal and that’s where we are.
I personally would not be surprised for a huge combat update with the late Summer DLC. Multiple changes to PVP have been live tested for over a year at that point as well as possible changes to light and heavy attack weaving.1 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, no... that's Next Year™ you're thinking of!
Note: Next Year™, not "next year"
That way, no matter what year it is, if it's not looking good this year it can be, "No, we clearly said Next Year™ last year, but that doesn't mean this year. Read the fine print!"5 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭removing most of the delves
Why should they do that? Each delve is a completely different zone. With this logic, why not remove the rest of the PVE zones, like Vvardenfell, Deeshan, Stormhaven, etc, since you can also enter them from Cyrodiil?
Also, some of the best fights I've had in PvP were in the Cyrodiil delves. And I wouldn't want to give up my 20% AP buff just because you think it's a good idea.
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GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They already did a year long performance improvement plan in 2019 - 2020 and while it lead to some minor improvements in loading times I'm not sure it made significant changes to performance overall.
To be honest I read that announcement as mainly just saying they're going to stick to the same number of new releases to buy but with less in each of them. It's the same thing all kinds of companies have been saying after all the disruption to everything in 2020 (and 2021), of course everyone tries to put a happy face on it and make a show of doing their best or saying what they're doing now will be as good, just different, but the upshot is effectively nothing is functioning as normal and we shouldn't expect normal results.
Yeah, that's fair. Covid did kinda come out of nowhere and kick basically the whole world in the nuts there. Hard to blame ZOS for struggling to meet a few promises from the time before the "apocalypse lite" was even on the horizon. :P
You guys remember about 12 months ago when you could pay your rent with toilet paper? I 'member! 1 -
Rukia541✭✭✭✭✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »2020 made huge strides towards improvement actually. ZOS implemented a number of changes in the coding to address issues and it did make differences for the long term.
Problem is most players use Cyrodil as an overall barometer for how the game is performing (ridiculous to base overall game performance on such an instance). ZOS discovered basically halfway through the year that despite changes on their end to improve performance there it was essentially inconsequential. The servers were just being hammered too much by commands and calculations that are fundamentally different from what was designed for 7 years ago.
So performance changes basically had to start over with a move towards simplifying combat on the player end. Fewer server checks and fewer player inputs is the new goal and that’s where we are.
I personally would not be surprised for a huge combat update with the late Summer DLC. Multiple changes to PVP have been live tested for over a year at that point as well as possible changes to light and heavy attack weaving.
Their server structure or coding is awful in ESO.
GW2 don't lag at all in WvW which is the same as cyrodiil and supports 500 players per map. Just youtube a WvW fight, there is no lag with blobs of people on the screen millions of effects going off, tons of calculations w/e excuse you wanna use. In cyro, you will lag regardless of anyone on the screen, once the fighting starts even if its just a few players I feel it immediately. I've never got to play in cyro cuz of that crap, no idea why people waste their time playing a broken game in there.
It always comes down to servers and $, clearly ZoS do not want to invest in good servers or tech. Neither does WoW for that matter.. that game can't even handle 40v40 anymore without insane delays. [snip] If you think they can't fix this quickly then you are either uninformed or in denial.
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 3, 2021 1:27PM20 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »2020 made huge strides towards improvement actually. ZOS implemented a number of changes in the coding to address issues and it did make differences for the long term.
Problem is most players use Cyrodil as an overall barometer for how the game is performing (ridiculous to base overall game performance on such an instance). ZOS discovered basically halfway through the year that despite changes on their end to improve performance there it was essentially inconsequential. The servers were just being hammered too much by commands and calculations that are fundamentally different from what was designed for 7 years ago.
So performance changes basically had to start over with a move towards simplifying combat on the player end. Fewer server checks and fewer player inputs is the new goal and that’s where we are.
I personally would not be surprised for a huge combat update with the late Summer DLC. Multiple changes to PVP have been live tested for over a year at that point as well as possible changes to light and heavy attack weaving.
Their server structure or coding is awful in ESO.
GW2 don't lag at all in WvW which is the same as cyrodiil and supports 500 players per map. Just youtube a WvW fight, there is no lag with blobs of people on the screen millions of effects going off, tons of calculations w/e excuse you wanna use. In cyro, you will lag regardless of anyone on the screen, once the fighting starts even if its just a few players I feel it immediately. I've never got to play in cyro cuz of that crap, no idea why people waste their time playing a broken game in there.
It always comes down to servers and $, clearly ZoS do not want to invest in good servers or tech. Neither does WoW for that matter.. that game can't even handle 40v40 anymore without insane delays. [snip] If you think they can't fix this quickly then you are either uninformed or in denial.
I can look up GW2 performance and I instantly am met with developer posts detailing the same exact problems ESO faces being complained about in December 2020. Furthermore, these issues have been ongoing and complained about for over a year and despite changes on the server-side the developers say they still haven’t been able to solve the problem.
So idk how you can use GW2 as an example of great performance when their problems literally mirror that of ESO over the last year.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 3, 2021 1:28PM6 -
Rossmann✭✭✭Maybe a dev comment on the topic would be very insightful. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_BillE1
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FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't understand it. They were handed the perfect reason to hold off on adding a new system to the game, they could have focused all their energy on proc sets and the awful new cp and digging into WHY Cyrodil is SO unplayable for some people.
But they added companions.12 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most of the performance issues i expect to be solved-patched are:
1. Infamous overall Cyrodiil experience
2. Most known dungeon and trial bugs-glitches
3. Basic visual bugs-glitches
removing most of the delves, PvE pointless crap in cyrodill and then thinning how wide cyrodiil is will greatly solve alot of its performance and overall battle spread
Delves are completely separate instances, so I'd assume they would have no affect on Cyrodiil performance whatsoever, unless rendering a door texture is the main problem.
I'd also assume there's some form of culling in place, meaning stuff happening on the other side of the map shouldn't affect you at all. I can't really think of a reason why it should to be honest.
Optimizing their code should be the main focus, not removing features from the game, because ultimately that's just a bandaid fix.1 -
HanStolo✭✭✭Maybe a dev comment on the topic would be very insightful. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_BillE
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL19 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
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Well, for starters you are confusing bugs and visual glitches with performance issues. Performance means faster loading screens, faster character loading times, fewer crashes, and the game running more smoothly. Bugs and graphical glitches are none of those, they are something else entirely. Basically things happening, that should not be happening. To compare it to a car, performance is about how fast and clean a car drives. And broken windows, broken seats, or anything else broken, would be bugs/graphical glitches. Tuning the engine, does not fix the broken windows.Most of the performance issues i expect to be solved-patched are:
1. Infamous overall Cyrodiil experience
2. Most known dungeon and trial bugs-glitches
3. Basic visual bugs-glitches
1: ZOS can't fix Cyrodiil without destroying PvP. PvPers like to spam buttons, max their attacks per second, and like to optimally use their counters(buffs/debuffs/scrolls/potions/etc). This is also why the performance is much much better during PvP events, there are more casual players taking up PvP spots. PvE'ers aren't doing all those things.
2&3: Bugs and glitches do need to get fixed, but technically this isn't a performance issue. Even though it may look that way from our point of view. As something is not working, as it was supposed to be.
About Cyrodiil: In my opinion ZOS should start experimenting with different types of PvP, not just with item sets as they have done. For example: Disabling light/heavy attacks completely, single-bar PvP, buffs from backbar skills are disabled instantly, etc. Maybe even with specific PvP pre-made characters/skillsets. I know many PvPers won't like changing any of those things, but it is worth trying, even as a temporary seperate mode. Maybe some will even catch on, or get more players to PvP.
But performance-wise, the game has come a long way. Very fast loading screens, very fast character loading, less lag, etc. Besides Cyrodiil, the game is in a great performance spot right now.Edited by Sarannah on June 4, 2021 2:21PM1 -
Rossmann✭✭✭My take on this generally is that all things that need a fix should be fixed. Be it performance or bugs, glitches. Not all bugs need to be visual btw.1
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coletas✭✭✭✭Loolll... Well... Maybe now they have the database servers in the freezer. They must be learning from Chris Roberts project planning lol1
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Rukia541✭✭✭✭✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »2020 made huge strides towards improvement actually. ZOS implemented a number of changes in the coding to address issues and it did make differences for the long term.
Problem is most players use Cyrodil as an overall barometer for how the game is performing (ridiculous to base overall game performance on such an instance). ZOS discovered basically halfway through the year that despite changes on their end to improve performance there it was essentially inconsequential. The servers were just being hammered too much by commands and calculations that are fundamentally different from what was designed for 7 years ago.
So performance changes basically had to start over with a move towards simplifying combat on the player end. Fewer server checks and fewer player inputs is the new goal and that’s where we are.
I personally would not be surprised for a huge combat update with the late Summer DLC. Multiple changes to PVP have been live tested for over a year at that point as well as possible changes to light and heavy attack weaving.
Their server structure or coding is awful in ESO.
GW2 don't lag at all in WvW which is the same as cyrodiil and supports 500 players per map. Just youtube a WvW fight, there is no lag with blobs of people on the screen millions of effects going off, tons of calculations w/e excuse you wanna use. In cyro, you will lag regardless of anyone on the screen, once the fighting starts even if its just a few players I feel it immediately. I've never got to play in cyro cuz of that crap, no idea why people waste their time playing a broken game in there.
It always comes down to servers and $, clearly ZoS do not want to invest in good servers or tech. Neither does WoW for that matter.. that game can't even handle 40v40 anymore without insane delays. Its pathetic how cheap these people are in premium MMOs. If you think they can't fix this quickly then you are either uninformed or in denial.
I can look up GW2 performance and I instantly am met with developer posts detailing the same exact problems ESO faces being complained about in December 2020. Furthermore, these issues have been ongoing and complained about for over a year and despite changes on the server-side the developers say they still haven’t been able to solve the problem.
So idk how you can use GW2 as an example of great performance when their problems literally mirror that of ESO over the last year.
Cool, play the game try it for yourself then compare, there's always going to be a select few with performance issues no matter what, have horrible PCs & internet, etc. GW2 is easily the best performing zerg content in the genre. Go do atrackdemon5512 wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »2020 made huge strides towards improvement actually. ZOS implemented a number of changes in the coding to address issues and it did make differences for the long term.
Problem is most players use Cyrodil as an overall barometer for how the game is performing (ridiculous to base overall game performance on such an instance). ZOS discovered basically halfway through the year that despite changes on their end to improve performance there it was essentially inconsequential. The servers were just being hammered too much by commands and calculations that are fundamentally different from what was designed for 7 years ago.
So performance changes basically had to start over with a move towards simplifying combat on the player end. Fewer server checks and fewer player inputs is the new goal and that’s where we are.
I personally would not be surprised for a huge combat update with the late Summer DLC. Multiple changes to PVP have been live tested for over a year at that point as well as possible changes to light and heavy attack weaving.
Their server structure or coding is awful in ESO.
GW2 don't lag at all in WvW which is the same as cyrodiil and supports 500 players per map. Just youtube a WvW fight, there is no lag with blobs of people on the screen millions of effects going off, tons of calculations w/e excuse you wanna use. In cyro, you will lag regardless of anyone on the screen, once the fighting starts even if its just a few players I feel it immediately. I've never got to play in cyro cuz of that crap, no idea why people waste their time playing a broken game in there.
It always comes down to servers and $, clearly ZoS do not want to invest in good servers or tech. Neither does WoW for that matter.. that game can't even handle 40v40 anymore without insane delays. Its pathetic how cheap these people are in premium MMOs. If you think they can't fix this quickly then you are either uninformed or in denial.
I can look up GW2 performance and I instantly am met with developer posts detailing the same exact problems ESO faces being complained about in December 2020. Furthermore, these issues have been ongoing and complained about for over a year and despite changes on the server-side the developers say they still haven’t been able to solve the problem.
So idk how you can use GW2 as an example of great performance when their problems literally mirror that of ESO over the last year.
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Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I thought this was the year of “fewer new systems and big changes”. Which is still not aligned with what they’re actually doingEdited by Reverb on July 2, 2021 2:17PMBattle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche5 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭The year of performance felt more like an audit that anything else.
Still waiting to be able to play Cyrodill with my mates at regular human being times.1
