Meticulous Disassembly

ShadowWolf44 · May 2021

I've read some of the posts in regards to this new part of the Champions point system. I've seen some claim up to a 12% increase in "items received" from Refining. This has not been my experience.

I have seen zero improvement, whatsoever. I still hover around getting 1 gold drop, in every 4-500 items refined. Sometimes, it's 1-800-1000 +. But, this has been a nightmare for me, for many years. As a "Grand Master Crafter", you would think I could at least get the AVG, around 1: 200-250, that most see. But that is not the case. What is worse, when it first came out, I was getting ZERO Blue/Purple drops, on almost every Refinement. I might get 1 or 2 in 1000 items refined, but that's it. And this REALLY hurt, in Jewelry. This aspect, seems to have been fixed, at least, mostly. Getting Iridium is insane- but I think this is the case for everyone, for the most part.

[snip] Those Zero gold in 4k refining's? The 1:800-1000? Not a chance. There have been a few sessions, where I actually saw 1:150, (twice, - for approx. 1k items and 1:200, (3x's for approx. 2.4k items total, in all my years of crafting.)

I've had a few refining's, where I'd do say 4000 Platinum or Ancestor Silks, and get ZERO Gold. It was so frustrating, so I brought it to the forums, a few times. I've tried every single suggestion offered, in response. Nothing has helped.

So I began asking for more help from Zos, and telling them what was happening, taking screenshots, and even some video, (these take up memory, which effects gameplay on the Xbox- so it is difficult to keep them there, while waiting), and offered up absolute proof, of what I was experiencing.

[snip]

When they added Meticulous Disassembly, I had high hopes that those of us who have horrific results with the RNG? Would finally see some relief. None came. FOR MYSELF. And that's all I can post on.

I doubt this post will last long, but I can't just sit silent, and take this kind of.. what FEELS LIKE discrimination, since they refuse to even look at it, because it effects my entire game- and doesn't allow me to progress, test out differing gold equipment, etc. so I can find what works best for myself, and my play style. I have to choose very carefully- and if I make a mistake? Say, choose a bad set to improve, or they change that set, and it's not really viable anymore? I will take me an extremely long time, to get back what is lost.

I don't know what else to do, but to post in forums, seeking help or advice, but none is ever found. What IS found? Attacks. Those doing the attacking? Are NEVER rebuked for doing so- I am.[snip]

I can't post any nicer, as I always do, or clearer, what I'm facing. I can only post the truth- take screenshots of my posts, and hope, that one day, maybe an answer will be actually sought out, by those who created a game, a really love to play-

All I've ever asked for? And I've NEVER asked for ANY "back-payment of materials lost" or anything of that nature?

Was to be treated like everyone else who pays their money, to play a great game.

I guess that's a bridge too far.

[Edited to remove Discussing Disciplinary Actions]

deleted221106-002999 · May 2021

While I can sympathise with the frustration, 4k mats refined is probably far too small a sample size to draw any meaningful conclusions from.

Where others have posted stats the sample sizes have been much larger and from multiple sources - in this way a flaw was identified in the returns from the plentiful harvest star which was not giving the stated 50% bonus in gathered nodes (nearer 30%, I think).

Assuming you have all the refining passives already in full for each craft and meticulous disassembly slotted and confirmed you might get a better result with quantitative results from larger sample sizes.

If after that it's still the same and consistently lower than expected I'd suggest repeating without the respective craft passives taken; if you can consistently reproduce lower drop rates under such circumstances, too, then you might have something worth flagging, particulalry if there's no notable differences between with/without craft passives and/or meticulous disassembly selected.

Unfortunately, however, zos don't publish any of the rates for anything leaving players to empirically determine the drop rates and, for refining mats, requiring pretty vast numbers of refined mats in order to get any meangingful results.

But the sad reality is that you could easily refine 5k mats and get nothing of value. Then, in another instance, get 15 gold tempers from refining 1k mats. It's only over time and large samples you'd expect it to normalise to ~1:200 (assuming ALL craft passives for refining are taken), adjusted for whatever meticulous disassembly gives.

Dagoth_Rac · May 2021

The 12.5% improvement means the normal 5% chance multiplied by 1.125 = 5.625%. No, you won't notice a 0.625% change intuitively.

redlink1979 · May 2021

Check if you have the passives Metal Extraction/Unraveling/Jewelry Extraction/Wood Extraction at maximum (3/3) and Meticulous Disassembly slotted and confirmed.

phaneub17_ESO · May 2021

I once got 8 chromium grains out of a 500 stack of platinum dust, another time I bulk smashed nearly 900 platinum dust with not a single chromium grain. Stuff is just really random.

Xuhora · May 2021

dont know if it helps
i allways do a "testrun" before i refine a big stack of anything, as i have noticed similar things like you: back then i would refine a big chunk of raw materials and get nothing, or really close to nothing.
now i have the habit of refining 200 raw and if i get 1 gold i will refine the rest of it (most of the time 1800) and i will allways see "good" results.
once i got nothing from the testrun and refined away the rest anyways, which lead to 1 gold from 2000 raw mats.

may be a big coincidence, but i stick to my testrun for arround 2 years now and i cant complain. even though sometimes that means no refining on the testrun day.

ShadowWolf44 · May 2021

Xuhora wrote: »

dont know if it helps
i allways do a "testrun" before i refine a big stack of anything, as i have noticed similar things like you: back then i would refine a big chunk of raw materials and get nothing, or really close to nothing.
now i have the habit of refining 200 raw and if i get 1 gold i will refine the rest of it (most of the time 1800) and i will allways see "good" results.
once i got nothing from the testrun and refined away the rest anyways, which lead to 1 gold from 2000 raw mats.

may be a big coincidence, but i stick to my testrun for arround 2 years now and i cant complain. even though sometimes that means no refining on the testrun day.

Yeah, sounds like you might be having the same issue, except that fix worked for you. I've tried going as low as 80 even. I thought that they'd actually fixed the issue with the new MD? As my gold drops actually approached around 250-400- for me? That's insanely good....

However, the blues and purple? Dropped to zero. Or very close. Say, 1 blue grain per 1000- but most times, zero. I guess others were having this issue, or something similar- and they fixed it with one of the patches- as they basically went back to how it was. Sadly, the Gold did as well.

Another thing I find extremely odd? Let's say I'm having a wonderful day, and I get 5 gold, from 2000 refines. I would think- or common sense would dictate, that I should get double that in purple, (not always, but as an average), and then double the purple, for blue. But this is never the case.

If I get 5 gold? I'll usually get something like 3-4 purple, and 2-4 blues. Greens are never an issue, as they usually drop around double the blue. Do you have this issue as well? I know blues must be an issue for most people, because of the price of an Iridium Plate- stupid expensive, and they make blue writes? Guar pen liners.

I've talked to many people over my many years of playing. MOST players? Have one area they do exceptional in, say, getting designs, others, motifs, others, gold drops- I know people, and have watched them do so- get 1-gold every 70-100.

Now, the only reason I'm even able to still play the game? I get good armor drops. Or mostly. I farm a LOT. So the odds go up, since I get many treasure chests, and actually hunt them down- I don't have a choice, tbh.

But with this new "Book" system? Sales have plummeted. Now, I know people say, well, just start selling Motifs or designs, or mats or whatever- All well and good- but I ONLY get armor drops. I VERY rarely get motifs/designs/ and all the rest. And when I say plummet? I didn't sell a single piece of armor, over the last month, until just a couple days ago. So I've been LOSING gold, going backwards.

I've gone the "several toons" route, but this just eats up all my time, basically doing nothing but farming/surveys/treasure chests. And I'm still going backwards- except for this last event- it helped a little.

I just find it both sad, and unfair- and this is NOT whining, as I've NEVER asked for anything back, just for them to FIX whatever this is, I pay, like everyone else, that most in my guild, have 10's of millions, most far above that, in gold. So for them, they have room to play with building gold sets, and trying things out.

Myself? I've never gone above 3.4m, and right now, I'm back at 2.5m, and dropping, as my armor sales dry up. Not cheap to list those things, when nothing's selling. Usually I'd say 1-2 to pay for putting them up, and everything after is profit, but not anymore.

Many told me to just sell my raw mats, and I began trying that- but if you miss the swings, and with the prices dropping there too, It just wasn't an enjoyable way to spend my time. And I didn't see all that much from it. Especially when you see the price of Motifs and designs, which have many still valued in the hundreds of thousands, millions even.

Anyway- didn't mean to write a book. I appreciate your response, although this time, I really wasn't looking for one. Just posting/venting/and hoping, maybe someone had a new idea, or that they'd actually try and DO something to fix this, after 5 years of it. But I pretty must gave up on that, and ... have to be careful "Venting" too- or they'll boot me, losing all the years I spent supporting and promoting this game- and having to deal with, what I have.

Thanks again- Maybe I'll try the 200 Number again. Not done that with this new stuff- might as well see what happens.

Take Care- Happy Hunting.

Haenk · May 2021

Xuhora wrote: »

dont know if it helps
i allways do a "testrun" before i refine a big stack of anything, as i have noticed similar things like you: back then i would refine a big chunk of raw materials and get nothing, or really close to nothing.
now i have the habit of refining 200 raw and if i get 1 gold i will refine the rest of it (most of the time 1800) and i will allways see "good" results.
once i got nothing from the testrun and refined away the rest anyways, which lead to 1 gold from 2000 raw mats.

may be a big coincidence, but i stick to my testrun for arround 2 years now and i cant complain. even though sometimes that means no refining on the testrun day.

I too think rng() is a complete mess. The refining shows the same symptoms for me - I have the feeling, the randomness is only calculated once in a while. Bad luck stays bad luck for a while.
Also noticed a similar behaviour when doing daily craftig writs: I either get several master writs and golden mats, or only junk.

Something can't be right.

wolfie1.0. · June 2021

RNG is like that when you look at it on an incidental level. And when we are looking at things in the percentile levels that have been expected then you really need to see refining in a large sample size. We are talking 10s of thousands of mats being refined. The larger the sample size the more accurate the data.

Ultimately though the only real way to defeat the RNG boss is with quantity.