Request for a Trial finder (or some alternative solution)

BloodMagicLord · May 2021

There is a problem with raiding in ESO. The problem is discoverability. I see questions both on the forums and in-game of people asking stuff like "what is the end-game in ESO", there isn't really any kind of system in-game that directs players to trying out trials. If they try it and don't like it then fair enough.
But there's a problem when some players will play ESO and quit ESO without ever even knowing about the existence of trials. I remember when I was a newbie, I had absolutely no idea what they were and only found out about them by talking to a friend who was raiding in AA while I was mucking about making silly builds in the non veteran pvp campaign.

There is a genuine problem for guilds like mine, where it is difficult to find enough reliable players for our progression raids schedule, the raiding community in a way seems kinda static, it's a small but very loyal subsection of the player-base, maybe taking up less than 1% or even 0.5% of the player count. It's therefore really difficult for us to get a consistent team together and keep banging in those progression runs and improve from being a "good" guild to a "top" guild. There are a small number of guilds competing very heavily for an equally small number of competent players, and it's actually kinda stressful sometimes knowing that if you have a bad week of raiding then you're probably going to have players in your guild looking elsewhere.

So I guess my idea is that, while a trial finder wouldn't be a great way to actually get content completed, having an obvious link to trials within the UI that every player is using might at least open up the raiding community to more players and make trials more accessible, as opposed to it being a semi closed off backwater of the game/community that often seems forgotten about.

OutLaw_Nynx · May 2021

Have you ever used group finder for dungeons? Ever dealt with fake tanks in that? Healers? Now imagine that in a trial. Hard pass. And those people that are already in established trial guilds aren’t likely to just use a trial finder.. why would they?

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

Bulletin board where leaders can pick people. So much time goes in just finding people that I just lose williness to lead anymore.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Have you ever used group finder for dungeons? Ever dealt with fake tanks in that? Healers? Now imagine that in a trial. Hard pass. And those people that are already in established trial guilds aren’t likely to just use a trial finder.. why would they?

Cause people don't do trials 24/7 even such guilds.

BloodMagicLord · May 2021

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Have you ever used group finder for dungeons? Ever dealt with fake tanks in that? Healers? Now imagine that in a trial. Hard pass. And those people that are already in established trial guilds aren’t likely to just use a trial finder.. why would they?

Please properly read what people write before replying.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

There is a problem with raiding in ESO. The problem is discoverability. I see questions both on the forums and in-game of people asking stuff like "what is the end-game in ESO", there isn't really any kind of system in-game that directs players to trying out trials. If they try it and don't like it then fair enough.
But there's a problem when some players will play ESO and quit ESO without ever even knowing about the existence of trials. I remember when I was a newbie, I had absolutely no idea what they were and only found out about them by talking to a friend who was raiding in AA while I was mucking about making silly builds in the non veteran pvp campaign.

There is a genuine problem for guilds like mine, where it is difficult to find enough reliable players for our progression raids schedule, the raiding community in a way seems kinda static, it's a small but very loyal subsection of the player-base, maybe taking up less than 1% or even 0.5% of the player count. It's therefore really difficult for us to get a consistent team together and keep banging in those progression runs and improve from being a "good" guild to a "top" guild. There are a small number of guilds competing very heavily for an equally small number of competent players, and it's actually kinda stressful sometimes knowing that if you have a bad week of raiding then you're probably going to have players in your guild looking elsewhere.

So I guess my idea is that, while a trial finder wouldn't be a great way to actually get content completed, having an obvious link to trials within the UI that every player is using might at least open up the raiding community to more players and make trials more accessible, as opposed to it being a semi closed off backwater of the game/community that often seems forgotten about.

You can find fills in the Facebook of trials! The trial network https://discord.gg/Eb8c2h5

I still want trial finder k, but this solves your problem

BloodMagicLord · May 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Bulletin board where leaders can pick people. So much time goes in just finding people that I just lose williness to lead anymore.

Yes this isn't a bad idea, I remember someone mentioned an MMO (can't remember which one) that had an LFG system like this, people could set themselves as lfg and would appear in a list of players and then be invited by someone making a trial group.

And to reiterate since it's apparently not clear, I'm not suggesting that this would be a system suitable for established trial guilds to use, it's an entry level system to make raiding more visible and accessible.

Xuhora · May 2021

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

...

There is a genuine problem for guilds like mine, where it is difficult to find enough reliable players for our progression raids schedule, the raiding community in a way seems kinda static, it's a small but very loyal subsection of the player-base, maybe taking up less than 1% or even 0.5% of the player count. ...

As allways when this topic comes up every week there is someone tossing arround numbers, and as allways i ask: source?

to your request, i say the same every week: im heavily against a trial finder, even for entry level.
a board or a LFG tool like the premade mythic grouping tool in WoW on the other hand is something i can stand behind. it doesnt have to be that leaders only can pick people like starlight suggested, i would make it so that its a pick and an apply tool.
i see the title "LFM 2H1T3DD for vkA, link achievement" and i could apply to this group. it would make it an easier und more passive way to from PUGs, since you dont have to switch between the craglorn instances and copy paste the same message in ever instance.

BloodMagicLord · May 2021

Xuhora wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

...

There is a genuine problem for guilds like mine, where it is difficult to find enough reliable players for our progression raids schedule, the raiding community in a way seems kinda static, it's a small but very loyal subsection of the player-base, maybe taking up less than 1% or even 0.5% of the player count. ...

As allways when this topic comes up every week there is someone tossing arround numbers, and as allways i ask: source?

to your request, i say the same every week: im heavily against a trial finder, even for entry level.
a board or a LFG tool like the premade mythic grouping tool in WoW on the other hand is something i can stand behind. it doesnt have to be that leaders only can pick people like starlight suggested, i would make it so that its a pick and an apply tool.
i see the title "LFM 2H1T3DD for vkA, link achievement" and i could apply to this group. it would make it an easier und more passive way to from PUGs, since you dont have to switch between the craglorn instances and copy paste the same message in ever instance.

The source is hearsay which is why I said "maybe", it also depends on where you set the bar for what constitutes and end-game raider, but in any case it is definitely a small minority of players.
Perhaps a board would be better as opposed to a LFG tool in the same style as the dungeon finder that we currently have, I just think that there should be SOMETHING there.

Amottica · May 2021

One constant I have seen through various MMORPGs is that when I am not doing as much raiding as I want to that forming a raid is the answer. Even then it is a far better experience forming it from the guild I am in and only grab pugs to fill the last few spots if needed. Once I started forming groups to raid it quickly became much easier to do so.

In doing that there is not an issue with "discoverability. If you have problems finding players from your guild to join you then find a better guild.

I am not arguing against a trial GF but merely pointing out a far better solution that will lead to an experience that will surpass that found via a random GF group pretty much every time.

LalMirchi · May 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Bulletin board where leaders can pick people. So much time goes in just finding people that I just lose williness to lead anymore.

Yes! This would be a excellent solution for players who don't normally do trials like myself.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

Xuhora wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

...

There is a genuine problem for guilds like mine, where it is difficult to find enough reliable players for our progression raids schedule, the raiding community in a way seems kinda static, it's a small but very loyal subsection of the player-base, maybe taking up less than 1% or even 0.5% of the player count. ...

As allways when this topic comes up every week there is someone tossing arround numbers, and as allways i ask: source?

to your request, i say the same every week: im heavily against a trial finder, even for entry level.
a board or a LFG tool like the premade mythic grouping tool in WoW on the other hand is something i can stand behind. it doesnt have to be that leaders only can pick people like starlight suggested, i would make it so that its a pick and an apply tool.
i see the title "LFM 2H1T3DD for vkA, link achievement" and i could apply to this group. it would make it an easier und more passive way to from PUGs, since you dont have to switch between the craglorn instances and copy paste the same message in ever instance.

I didn't mean just leaders just a way to make people grathering more streamlined. I think we can look at guild finder technology for this as a base.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

Amottica wrote: »

One constant I have seen through various MMORPGs is that when I am not doing as much raiding as I want to that forming a raid is the answer. Even then it is a far better experience forming it from the guild I am in and only grab pugs to fill the last few spots if needed. Once I started forming groups to raid it quickly became much easier to do so.

In doing that there is not an issue with "discoverability. If you have problems finding players from your guild to join you then find a better guild.

I am not arguing against a trial GF but merely pointing out a far better solution that will lead to an experience that will surpass that found via a random GF group pretty much every time.

Honestly I like chaotic experience some trial pugs are. It's a real test to lead them or heal them which is fun for me. Also fun for problem solving side of myself.

Also some trials now lead themselves like vhrc or vAA 😂 after first boss

Xuhora · May 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

...

There is a genuine problem for guilds like mine, where it is difficult to find enough reliable players for our progression raids schedule, the raiding community in a way seems kinda static, it's a small but very loyal subsection of the player-base, maybe taking up less than 1% or even 0.5% of the player count. ...

As allways when this topic comes up every week there is someone tossing arround numbers, and as allways i ask: source?

to your request, i say the same every week: im heavily against a trial finder, even for entry level.
a board or a LFG tool like the premade mythic grouping tool in WoW on the other hand is something i can stand behind. it doesnt have to be that leaders only can pick people like starlight suggested, i would make it so that its a pick and an apply tool.
i see the title "LFM 2H1T3DD for vkA, link achievement" and i could apply to this group. it would make it an easier und more passive way to from PUGs, since you dont have to switch between the craglorn instances and copy paste the same message in ever instance.

I didn't mean just leaders just a way to make people grathering more streamlined. I think we can look at guild finder technology for this as a base.

yip, then we are at the same page of the trial finder book

Rescorla_ESO · May 2021

All it takes to fill empty slots for a trial is to go to Craglorn and post a zone message. There is almost always groups recruiting for Normal trials and those slots fill up fast.

PizzaCat82 · May 2021

As long as there's a toggle for "completed this trial before" in the finder I'm all for it.

Nowa133 · May 2021

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

All it takes to fill empty slots for a trial is to go to Craglorn and post a zone message. There is almost always groups recruiting for Normal trials and those slots fill up fast.

I don't think so. Depends on the hour and ppl up to it. Its better to have a trial finder like we used to have.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

All it takes to fill empty slots for a trial is to go to Craglorn and post a zone message. There is almost always groups recruiting for Normal trials and those slots fill up fast.

People you need might be in different instance. Filling spots definitely isn't as easy as typing LF dps, tank healer

Nowa133 · May 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

All it takes to fill empty slots for a trial is to go to Craglorn and post a zone message. There is almost always groups recruiting for Normal trials and those slots fill up fast.

People you need might be in different instance. Filling spots definitely isn't as easy as typing LF dps, tank healer

True, Starlight. People seems to forget about the instances.

kargen27 · May 2021

I would like to see a chat channel added that can be seen in any zone. It would need to be automated so players wouldn't spam it with want to sell messages and guild ads. Basically a person wanting to start a group would choose the trial from a dropdown menu and then put in how many of what roll they want. Players wanting to join would either whisper like happens now or better would be the ability to somehow join using the chat.

Starlight_Whisper · May 2021

So vAA I took of over 30 mins to fill and 30 mins and 12 secs to finish.

Had to pm trial discords, trial guilds, mutilple zone spams, other people spamming their guilds...

This is why it should be more streamlined

jle30303 · June 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

So vAA I took of over 30 mins to fill and 30 mins and 12 secs to finish.

Had to pm trial discords, trial guilds, mutilple zone spams, other people spamming their guilds...

This is why it should be more streamlined

That looks, to be honest, as if it's less about people "not knowing about trials" and more about "not wanting to do trials". Particularly Veteran trials.

One of the major reasons for this is (a) people who would in fact be perfectly capable of *completing* it as long as they could be taught the mechanics if there are any mechanics, get frozen out by elitist guilds who demand implausibly high levels of DPS, or that you already pretty much have gear *from* trials in order to take part in their trials (which often defeats the point), or that if you're the tank, you also have to be your own healer as well AND aren't allowed to wear sets that actually help you personally tank and stay alive. So, a lot of mid-ranking players have been put off the idea of doing veteran trials with pickup groups because there's always some bossy elitist somewhere who will mock them for perceived inadequacy. (And is usually not half up to his own publicity either.

Another reason, of course, is people thinking they're up to veteran in a role where they're barely up to normal, who *also* ruin the experience for the people who actually ARE good enough for veteran - as long as the whole trial was composed of people with a minimum of that standard - but aren't good enough as a team to be able to carry a passenger.

So a lot of the middle ranks, who could actually complete the content with a bit of difficulty, get discouraged BOTH from above and below.

BloodMagicLord · June 2021

jle30303 wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

So vAA I took of over 30 mins to fill and 30 mins and 12 secs to finish.

Had to pm trial discords, trial guilds, mutilple zone spams, other people spamming their guilds...

This is why it should be more streamlined

That looks, to be honest, as if it's less about people "not knowing about trials" and more about "not wanting to do trials". Particularly Veteran trials.

One of the major reasons for this is (a) people who would in fact be perfectly capable of *completing* it as long as they could be taught the mechanics if there are any mechanics, get frozen out by elitist guilds who demand implausibly high levels of DPS, or that you already pretty much have gear *from* trials in order to take part in their trials (which often defeats the point), or that if you're the tank, you also have to be your own healer as well AND aren't allowed to wear sets that actually help you personally tank and stay alive. So, a lot of mid-ranking players have been put off the idea of doing veteran trials with pickup groups because there's always some bossy elitist somewhere who will mock them for perceived inadequacy. (And is usually not half up to his own publicity either.

Another reason, of course, is people thinking they're up to veteran in a role where they're barely up to normal, who *also* ruin the experience for the people who actually ARE good enough for veteran - as long as the whole trial was composed of people with a minimum of that standard - but aren't good enough as a team to be able to carry a passenger.

So a lot of the middle ranks, who could actually complete the content with a bit of difficulty, get discouraged BOTH from above and below.

Mate, there aren't elitist guilds running vAA.

GreenHere · June 2021

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

So vAA I took of over 30 mins to fill and 30 mins and 12 secs to finish.

Had to pm trial discords, trial guilds, mutilple zone spams, other people spamming their guilds...

This is why it should be more streamlined

That looks, to be honest, as if it's less about people "not knowing about trials" and more about "not wanting to do trials". Particularly Veteran trials.

One of the major reasons for this is (a) people who would in fact be perfectly capable of *completing* it as long as they could be taught the mechanics if there are any mechanics, get frozen out by elitist guilds who demand implausibly high levels of DPS, or that you already pretty much have gear *from* trials in order to take part in their trials (which often defeats the point), or that if you're the tank, you also have to be your own healer as well AND aren't allowed to wear sets that actually help you personally tank and stay alive. So, a lot of mid-ranking players have been put off the idea of doing veteran trials with pickup groups because there's always some bossy elitist somewhere who will mock them for perceived inadequacy. (And is usually not half up to his own publicity either.

Another reason, of course, is people thinking they're up to veteran in a role where they're barely up to normal, who *also* ruin the experience for the people who actually ARE good enough for veteran - as long as the whole trial was composed of people with a minimum of that standard - but aren't good enough as a team to be able to carry a passenger.

So a lot of the middle ranks, who could actually complete the content with a bit of difficulty, get discouraged BOTH from above and below.

Mate, there aren't elitist guilds running vAA.

But @jle30303 makes a valid point that is very pertinent to your discussion. They're likely one of the people that you want to partake in your proposed solution of some kind of tool where ZOS guides players to the content that you're trying to fill. Right? They're pointing out why, even though they know about Trials, a lot of people are actively avoiding them.

As one of the people who can (but almost never does) do vet Trials, I can tell you that a big reason folks like me avoid them is because:

1) I don't play ESO on a rigid schedule, and can't commit to things days/weeks in advance. I don't blame anyone here, because I totally get that if you are the type that can schedule things ahead of time that it's nice to just assemble the group and go at the appointed time. One of the worst parts of Trials is all the waiting around to get a group together to actually PLAY the damn things, so wanting to avoid this part of it makes perfect sense... in theory. But people always seem to want me to commit to being online at some certain time like 9 days in the future, and I just don't keep a day planner for my recreation time. I know a lot of people who are in the same boat as me on this.

2) People are ****s. About 80% of the time or better, That Guy is in the group. You know, the one who's apparently JUST tasted "power" for the first time ever, and is now determined to be the best raid leader in the history of forever... even though the actual leader is right there, giving perfectly good instructions already? Or some dingleberry is dropping insults and slurs on people for making simple mistakes or having things outside their control like lag or real life cause minor hiccups? Or SOMETHING. It's almost always SOMETHING or other in raids with randoms. So us chill folks just do them less and less with people we don't know, because it just gets old ya know? Ain't nobody got time for that.

3) Players' expectations for randoms just keeps getting higher and higher. If the encounter can be completed with reasonably competent groups pulling 200K DPS (or whatever arbitrary number; don't get hung up on the random figure I chose) then sure enough someone will come along expecting you to be in the top 1% of all players in the galaxy who can pull 119K all by yourself; whether it's the person offering an invite before you join the group, the raid leader once you're already in the group, or the "That Guy" who's ready to insult you for not hitting those numbers after the fact. I'm not saying everyone is like this, but the attitude does seem all too pervasive. Almost never can you get through a Trial without somebody scrutinizing your performance to make sure it's up to their standards -- even if the actual raid we're trying to accomplish only requires far less. It's thoroughly off-putting -- even if you are capable of decent performance -- to feel like you're applying for the role of a lifetime when just trying to have fun and tackle a mildly more challenging endgame activity.

I'm not trying to shoot down any ideas for some kind of LFG implementation for Trials (because I'd love for it to be a viable option somehow), or imply that anything's impossible or whatever here. Just saying, from my experience the biggest cause of there not being enough players willing to do Trials is... the community.

ZOS could maybe do some stuff to ease the burdens here or there, or guide more people into the Trials funnel somehow, but until some of the endgame "tryhards" (I don't mean that pejoratively, I just don't know a better word atm) ease up a bit and remember that games are supposed to be fun, I'm not really sure how you can get vet Trial participation up, sadly. Normals are where it's at for players like me, and it's (mostly) not because of the content's difficulty.

Starlight_Whisper · June 2021

jle30303 wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

So vAA I took of over 30 mins to fill and 30 mins and 12 secs to finish.

Had to pm trial discords, trial guilds, mutilple zone spams, other people spamming their guilds...

This is why it should be more streamlined

That looks, to be honest, as if it's less about people "not knowing about trials" and more about "not wanting to do trials". Particularly Veteran trials.

One of the major reasons for this is (a) people who would in fact be perfectly capable of *completing* it as long as they could be taught the mechanics if there are any mechanics, get frozen out by elitist guilds who demand implausibly high levels of DPS, or that you already pretty much have gear *from* trials in order to take part in their trials (which often defeats the point), or that if you're the tank, you also have to be your own healer as well AND aren't allowed to wear sets that actually help you personally tank and stay alive. So, a lot of mid-ranking players have been put off the idea of doing veteran trials with pickup groups because there's always some bossy elitist somewhere who will mock them for perceived inadequacy. (And is usually not half up to his own publicity either.

Another reason, of course, is people thinking they're up to veteran in a role where they're barely up to normal, who *also* ruin the experience for the people who actually ARE good enough for veteran - as long as the whole trial was composed of people with a minimum of that standard - but aren't good enough as a team to be able to carry a passenger.

So a lot of the middle ranks, who could actually complete the content with a bit of difficulty, get discouraged BOTH from above and below.

Not feeling you there. You are assuming things about my leadership that aren't true. It took us so long to get people because we just had to find people interested and that process is not streamlined. It took us so little time to do it because 3 of them were friends and having fun competeing in dps while rest just were good. It was just chance.

GreenHere · June 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

So vAA I took of over 30 mins to fill and 30 mins and 12 secs to finish.

Had to pm trial discords, trial guilds, mutilple zone spams, other people spamming their guilds...

This is why it should be more streamlined

That looks, to be honest, as if it's less about people "not knowing about trials" and more about "not wanting to do trials". Particularly Veteran trials.

One of the major reasons for this is (a) people who would in fact be perfectly capable of *completing* it as long as they could be taught the mechanics if there are any mechanics, get frozen out by elitist guilds who demand implausibly high levels of DPS, or that you already pretty much have gear *from* trials in order to take part in their trials (which often defeats the point), or that if you're the tank, you also have to be your own healer as well AND aren't allowed to wear sets that actually help you personally tank and stay alive. So, a lot of mid-ranking players have been put off the idea of doing veteran trials with pickup groups because there's always some bossy elitist somewhere who will mock them for perceived inadequacy. (And is usually not half up to his own publicity either.

Another reason, of course, is people thinking they're up to veteran in a role where they're barely up to normal, who *also* ruin the experience for the people who actually ARE good enough for veteran - as long as the whole trial was composed of people with a minimum of that standard - but aren't good enough as a team to be able to carry a passenger.

So a lot of the middle ranks, who could actually complete the content with a bit of difficulty, get discouraged BOTH from above and below.

Not feeling you there. You are assuming things about my leadership that aren't true. It took us so long to get people because we just had to find people interested and that process is not streamlined. It took us so little time to do it because 3 of them were friends and having fun competeing in dps while rest just were good. It was just chance.

Wait, what? Maybe I'm just not understanding something here, but I don't see anything where they made any assumptions or assertions about you or your leadership...

They're pretty clearly using the general "you" (as in, the "royal" non-specific "you") in making their points, and none of those points are even talking about things specific to @Starlight_Whisper or your group. They're making a valid observation about how (other, random) players generally don't want to bother with Vet Trials, then they go on to list good points that explain their theory...

Did a message get stealth edited/removed, or something? Or are one of us just reading that post entirely wrong?

Starlight_Whisper · June 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

So vAA I took of over 30 mins to fill and 30 mins and 12 secs to finish.

Had to pm trial discords, trial guilds, mutilple zone spams, other people spamming their guilds...

This is why it should be more streamlined

That looks, to be honest, as if it's less about people "not knowing about trials" and more about "not wanting to do trials". Particularly Veteran trials.

One of the major reasons for this is (a) people who would in fact be perfectly capable of *completing* it as long as they could be taught the mechanics if there are any mechanics, get frozen out by elitist guilds who demand implausibly high levels of DPS, or that you already pretty much have gear *from* trials in order to take part in their trials (which often defeats the point), or that if you're the tank, you also have to be your own healer as well AND aren't allowed to wear sets that actually help you personally tank and stay alive. So, a lot of mid-ranking players have been put off the idea of doing veteran trials with pickup groups because there's always some bossy elitist somewhere who will mock them for perceived inadequacy. (And is usually not half up to his own publicity either.

Another reason, of course, is people thinking they're up to veteran in a role where they're barely up to normal, who *also* ruin the experience for the people who actually ARE good enough for veteran - as long as the whole trial was composed of people with a minimum of that standard - but aren't good enough as a team to be able to carry a passenger.

So a lot of the middle ranks, who could actually complete the content with a bit of difficulty, get discouraged BOTH from above and below.

Not feeling you there. You are assuming things about my leadership that aren't true. It took us so long to get people because we just had to find people interested and that process is not streamlined. It took us so little time to do it because 3 of them were friends and having fun competeing in dps while rest just were good. It was just chance.

Wait, what? Maybe I'm just not understanding something here, but I don't see anything where they made any assumptions or assertions about you or your leadership...

They're pretty clearly using the general "you" (as in, the "royal" non-specific "you") in making their points, and none of those points are even talking about things specific to @Starlight_Whisper or your group. They're making a valid observation about how (other, random) players generally don't want to bother with Vet Trials, then they go on to list good points that explain their theory...

Did a message get stealth edited/removed, or something? Or are one of us just reading that post entirely wrong?

They linked and mentioned hard requirements for trials as why nobody wanted in. There's implied assumption placed in me on how they wrote it.

It would be different if they hadn't quoted me but they did so you are using me as example as why people didn't join.

GreenHere · June 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

So vAA I took of over 30 mins to fill and 30 mins and 12 secs to finish.

Had to pm trial discords, trial guilds, mutilple zone spams, other people spamming their guilds...

This is why it should be more streamlined

That looks, to be honest, as if it's less about people "not knowing about trials" and more about "not wanting to do trials". Particularly Veteran trials.

One of the major reasons for this is (a) people who would in fact be perfectly capable of *completing* it as long as they could be taught the mechanics if there are any mechanics, get frozen out by elitist guilds who demand implausibly high levels of DPS, or that you already pretty much have gear *from* trials in order to take part in their trials (which often defeats the point), or that if you're the tank, you also have to be your own healer as well AND aren't allowed to wear sets that actually help you personally tank and stay alive. So, a lot of mid-ranking players have been put off the idea of doing veteran trials with pickup groups because there's always some bossy elitist somewhere who will mock them for perceived inadequacy. (And is usually not half up to his own publicity either.

Another reason, of course, is people thinking they're up to veteran in a role where they're barely up to normal, who *also* ruin the experience for the people who actually ARE good enough for veteran - as long as the whole trial was composed of people with a minimum of that standard - but aren't good enough as a team to be able to carry a passenger.

So a lot of the middle ranks, who could actually complete the content with a bit of difficulty, get discouraged BOTH from above and below.

Not feeling you there. You are assuming things about my leadership that aren't true. It took us so long to get people because we just had to find people interested and that process is not streamlined. It took us so little time to do it because 3 of them were friends and having fun competeing in dps while rest just were good. It was just chance.

Wait, what? Maybe I'm just not understanding something here, but I don't see anything where they made any assumptions or assertions about you or your leadership...

They're pretty clearly using the general "you" (as in, the "royal" non-specific "you") in making their points, and none of those points are even talking about things specific to @Starlight_Whisper or your group. They're making a valid observation about how (other, random) players generally don't want to bother with Vet Trials, then they go on to list good points that explain their theory...

Did a message get stealth edited/removed, or something? Or are one of us just reading that post entirely wrong?

They linked and mentioned hard requirements for trials as why nobody wanted in. There's implied assumption placed in me on how they wrote it.

It would be different if they hadn't quoted me but they did so you are using me as example as why people didn't join.

Wow... I never would have even thought to look at it like that. Thanks for clarifying!

Guess I need to think a bit more carefully about quoting people. I genuinely wasn't aware that it carried such implications for some people. Didn't even occur to me.

Because this is the internet, and you can't hear my tone: I'm not being sarcastic or snarky here. Truly, thank you for elaborating. I was actually confused, and wondering if my reading comprehension had a huge hole in it! lol

FantasticFreddie · June 2021

Zos: makes multiple quests out in the world that lead you to the door of a trial where a pop-up on your screen kindly explains that congratulations, you've found a trial! And you should tackle this with a big group of people because it's hard.
Players: "But how do I know trials exist or what they are?! IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!"
Zos: ............ :pepereally:

AuraNebula · June 2021

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Have you ever used group finder for dungeons? Ever dealt with fake tanks in that? Healers? Now imagine that in a trial. Hard pass. And those people that are already in established trial guilds aren’t likely to just use a trial finder.. why would they?

Tbh it would be better than trying to find 2 people (and subs didnt show) so now you're having everyone send shutouts to other guilds, have to leave the trial and go stand in Craglorn looking for a pug.

six2fall · June 2021

Wish we could get something like ffxiv trials where it's just a boss battle with 6 or 8 players. There are a bunch if difficulties but it's still possible to pug them so they are pretty fun to do.