Difference between Dungeon I and Dungeon II

Zama666 · April 2021

Hello,

Trying to Solo Dark Shade Cavern II - and getting clobbered! I was able to do Dark Shade Cavern I without dying.....
What is the difference between the two.
This is non Vet....or maybe I should check?

Tanks,

Z

Firstmep · April 2021

Zama666 wrote: »

Hello,

Trying to Solo Dark Shade Cavern II - and getting clobbered! I was able to do Dark Shade Cavern I without dying.....
What is the difference between the two.
This is non Vet....or maybe I should check?

Tanks,

Z

I and II have different stories, back in the day you had to complete one to get access to the other, and they were meant to be more difficult.
I think mobs probably have similar hp etc, in I and II, but the latter has more difficult mechanics, that's about it.

SirAndy · April 2021

Generally speaking, the II versions are more difficult, especially solo (as you already found out)

Magdalina · April 2021

If you wanna hear the full story...once upon a time, when the concept of CP was unheard of, when 700 was considered good dps (as all stats were generally roughly 10 times less than they are now), when you needed to be EP to play with an EP in PvE and mobs actually had levels...in this distance time around the dawn of ESO, there were no versions I and II. There were simply normal and vet dungeons. Dungeons, just like zones, were gated by levels. Normal Spindleclutch, Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells were level 10-ish (iirc); normal Wayrest, Elden Hollow, Darkshade were level 20-ish, etc. The higher the zone was in main questline, the higher its level along with corresponding dungeon level, the highest being Coldharbour and Vaults of Madness at ~level 45. Once you outleveled mobs in the dungeon (as well as open world) by more than...was it 7 levels?...you could no longer get loot from them. And, of course, any loot you did get from leveled monsters was the level of the monsters, no scaling to you.

Once you hit 50 you became level veteran 1 and unlocked veteran dungeons. There were only 6 veteran dungeons at launch - vet Spindleclutch, Fungal Grotto and Banished Cells which were all veteran 5, and Wayrest, Elden and Darkshade which were all veteran 10. These dungeons were made to continue the stories started in normal dungeons of the same name and, being made veteran from the start, had harder fights and more complicated mechanics. Then after a time, ZOS introduced 2 new veteran dungeons - Crypt of Hearts (which level I honestly cannot remember but I assume vet 10?) and City of Ash (which was I think veteran 12 as they raised the cap by then?), with even more complicated mechanics, nearly unbeatable at launch.

Then ZOS saw the light and revamped the dungeon system. They gave ALL dungeons a vet version, and what was veteran dungeons originally became dungeons II (and their formerly normal-only counterpart became dungeon I to avoid confusion). All the dlc dungeons already came out with this system in mind so they have no dungeons II version, it's DLC dungeon normal and DLC dungeon vet.

Tl;dr - yeah, dungeons II are generally harder than dungeons I because they've been made as their harder counterpart in mind. They're no longer THE hardest as they've been nerfed to ground over time (I do remember when you needed a heck of a healer to survive Vila Theran's beams of death in FG2, or when EH2 last boss was a more than decent dps check, or when only chosen few teams could make it through CoA2 at all), but they still are harder.

wheresbes · April 2021

Magdalina wrote: »

If you wanna hear the full story... (...)

What a great history lesson!

Thank you for bringing back old memories

jessica_1403 · May 2021

wow magdalina! thank you so much for that awesome reply! That was super interesting!!!

Dagoth_Rac · May 2021

Magdalina wrote: »

Then after a time, ZOS introduced 2 new veteran dungeons - Crypt of Hearts (which level I honestly cannot remember but I assume vet 10?) and City of Ash (which was I think veteran 12 as they raised the cap by then?), with even more complicated mechanics, nearly unbeatable at launch.

The original veteran Crypt of Hearts was VR12 and the original veteran City of Ash was VR14.

The order of release was:

1). Lower Craglorn. Overland = VR11, AA and HRC Trials = VR12.
2). Veteran Crypt of Hearts = VR12
3). Upper Craglorn. Overland = VR13, SO Trial = VR14.
4). Veteran City of Ash = VR14

Then they stopped updates for a many months while they worked on console release, dropped subscription requirement and introduced ESO+, etc. Technically, Imperial City DLC was VR16, but that was a last gasp before they started scaling players up and effectively got rid of monster/NPC/zone levels.

Zama666 · May 2021

SirAndy wrote: »

Generally speaking, the II versions are more difficult, especially solo (as you already found out)

And you don't get any more Undaunted Keys when you do them?

Zama666 · May 2021

Magdalina wrote: »

If you wanna hear the full story...once upon a time, when the concept of CP was unheard of, when 700 was considered good dps (as all stats were generally roughly 10 times less than they are now), when you needed to be EP to play with an EP in PvE and mobs actually had levels...in this distance time around the dawn of ESO, there were no versions I and II. There were simply normal and vet dungeons. Dungeons, just like zones, were gated by levels. Normal Spindleclutch, Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells were level 10-ish (iirc); normal Wayrest, Elden Hollow, Darkshade were level 20-ish, etc. The higher the zone was in main questline, the higher its level along with corresponding dungeon level, the highest being Coldharbour and Vaults of Madness at ~level 45. Once you outleveled mobs in the dungeon (as well as open world) by more than...was it 7 levels?...you could no longer get loot from them. And, of course, any loot you did get from leveled monsters was the level of the monsters, no scaling to you.

Once you hit 50 you became level veteran 1 and unlocked veteran dungeons. There were only 6 veteran dungeons at launch - vet Spindleclutch, Fungal Grotto and Banished Cells which were all veteran 5, and Wayrest, Elden and Darkshade which were all veteran 10. These dungeons were made to continue the stories started in normal dungeons of the same name and, being made veteran from the start, had harder fights and more complicated mechanics. Then after a time, ZOS introduced 2 new veteran dungeons - Crypt of Hearts (which level I honestly cannot remember but I assume vet 10?) and City of Ash (which was I think veteran 12 as they raised the cap by then?), with even more complicated mechanics, nearly unbeatable at launch.

Then ZOS saw the light and revamped the dungeon system. They gave ALL dungeons a vet version, and what was veteran dungeons originally became dungeons II (and their formerly normal-only counterpart became dungeon I to avoid confusion). All the dlc dungeons already came out with this system in mind so they have no dungeons II version, it's DLC dungeon normal and DLC dungeon vet.

Tl;dr - yeah, dungeons II are generally harder than dungeons I because they've been made as their harder counterpart in mind. They're no longer THE hardest as they've been nerfed to ground over time (I do remember when you needed a heck of a healer to survive Vila Theran's beams of death in FG2, or when EH2 last boss was a more than decent dps check, or when only chosen few teams could make it through CoA2 at all), but they still are harder.

@Magdalina I remember when zones were gated by level - actually really loved that, because it remained mysterious, and something to be earned. The wonders of finally being able to escape Deshaan!

I would not mind seeing 'veteran zones' in PVE where you get humbled and can't just hack n slash your way out. Kind of a bonus per region

The new CP system is interesting with the slotting of CP skills. They way, even if you earn them all, you can only use a few at a time, meaning you have more tools for different situations.

I don't want the game to go the way of old WOW - where you just level climb. I like how it spreads out as well.

Man, your thread took me back to Vintage ESO. Is there a time machine in Clockwork City that can take me back?

Tanks again!

Z