Should we just build for straight Critical Chance now?

ArchMikem · May 2021

With the CP 2.0 update having given us a boost in base weapon and spell damage, wouldn't it just be more prudent to build for stacked Critical Chance so we're hitting crits as often as possible? My Nightblade after the CP change with 5k buffed weapon damage feels like a wet noodle when not hitting crits. Even with my current build with a buffed stat of 71% chance, it still does standard damage rolls fairly often. I feel like if I can have at least a 90% crit chance, even with taking a hit to other stats, my overall short term damage output would increase.

etchedpixels · May 2021

Enough penetration then critical - to a point.

Criticals (without any crit damage bonus) are 50% bonus damage, so weapon damage v critical chance v critical damage is just a bit of maths.

ArchMikem · May 2021

etchedpixels wrote: »

Enough penetration then critical - to a point.

Criticals (without any crit damage bonus) are 50% bonus damage, so weapon damage v critical chance v critical damage is just a bit of maths.

So what's the optimal amount of pen you should have solo?

DontWorryAboutit · May 2021

ArchMikem wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

Enough penetration then critical - to a point.

Criticals (without any crit damage bonus) are 50% bonus damage, so weapon damage v critical chance v critical damage is just a bit of maths.

So what's the optimal amount of pen you should have solo?

If youre talking about pvp 10k plus

etchedpixels · May 2021

PvP aside overland is generally 9100 armour. double that on dungeon and trial bosses and some arena bosses.

However you've also got 5948 resistance reduction from major breach and 2974 from minor breach if you can supply them from class, guild or weapon skills.

Assuming you are not doing dungeons solo or malestrom/vateshan arenas you need enough penetration to reach 9100 minus whatever your toon can supply in the breaches. So for example a magicka toon running elemental drain you need 9100 - 5948 assuming you keep the drain up. Five pieces of light armour plus passives and thats 4965 penetration so sorted.

In group content your tank generally provides both and may provide some extra via crusher etc so for PvE the rule of thumb often used is 7170.

For PvP some players will stack for very high resists (the cap is about 33K) hence the tendancy to favour mauls.

FriedEggSandwich · May 2021

etchedpixels wrote: »

PvP aside overland is generally 9100 armour. double that on dungeon and trial bosses and some arena bosses.

However you've also got 5948 resistance reduction from major breach and 2974 from minor breach if you can supply them from class, guild or weapon skills.

Assuming you are not doing dungeons solo or malestrom/vateshan arenas you need enough penetration to reach 9100 minus whatever your toon can supply in the breaches. So for example a magicka toon running elemental drain you need 9100 - 5948 assuming you keep the drain up. Five pieces of light armour plus passives and thats 4965 penetration so sorted.

In group content your tank generally provides both and may provide some extra via crusher etc so for PvE the rule of thumb often used is 7170.

For PvP some players will stack for very high resists (the cap is about 33K) hence the tendancy to favour mauls.

So, just out of interest (don't want to hijack the thread), what is a good amount of pen for someone soloing dungeons or doing vMA/vateshan. My solo pve build only gets me to about 10k spell pen (just over 5k plus weakness to elements), and I've often wondered if that's enough, too much or just right. I can't really think how to get it any higher without going full 7 light armour, or wearing something silly like spinners, and I imagine fully penetrating vMA bosses isn't even possible or worth trying for. I'm just wondering what most people do, thanks.

Zodiarkslayer · May 2021

ArchMikem wrote: »

With the CP 2.0 update having given us a boost in base weapon and spell damage, wouldn't it just be more prudent to build for stacked Critical Chance so we're hitting crits as often as possible? My Nightblade after the CP change with 5k buffed weapon damage feels like a wet noodle when not hitting crits. Even with my current build with a buffed stat of 71% chance, it still does standard damage rolls fairly often. I feel like if I can have at least a 90% crit chance, even with taking a hit to other stats, my overall short term damage output would increase.

Nightblades have the highest build in crit damage of all classes. My Khajiit StamBlade has 107% Damage Bonus and 74% Chance with the thief mundus and no group buffs (minor/major force). Fully Buffed and with the Shadow Mundus I can ramp up to 155%, but I wouldn't be using Relentless Focus. It'd be saving it at 5 stacks.
You can stack crit chance so high, that you get 100% on a nightblade. You just have to use four or five Assassins abilities in combi with two crit sets, like Tzogvin (10 stacks) and Leviathan. But your damage suffers so much, that you will be down to 107% again, without Focus.
In group content, when you can fully debuff the enemy, it is really a matter of your overall build and what bonus lines your equipment has.

I found that with the shadow mundus and a few DoTs (3), the Potential for damage is higher, on paper with perfect weaving. But with the thief and really high crit chance you need more DoTs (5) to reach those numbers, yet I get away with suboptimal weaving.

MashmalloMan · May 2021

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

PvP aside overland is generally 9100 armour. double that on dungeon and trial bosses and some arena bosses.

However you've also got 5948 resistance reduction from major breach and 2974 from minor breach if you can supply them from class, guild or weapon skills.

Assuming you are not doing dungeons solo or malestrom/vateshan arenas you need enough penetration to reach 9100 minus whatever your toon can supply in the breaches. So for example a magicka toon running elemental drain you need 9100 - 5948 assuming you keep the drain up. Five pieces of light armour plus passives and thats 4965 penetration so sorted.

In group content your tank generally provides both and may provide some extra via crusher etc so for PvE the rule of thumb often used is 7170.

For PvP some players will stack for very high resists (the cap is about 33K) hence the tendancy to favour mauls.

So, just out of interest (don't want to hijack the thread), what is a good amount of pen for someone soloing dungeons or doing vMA/vateshan. My solo pve build only gets me to about 10k spell pen (just over 5k plus weakness to elements), and I've often wondered if that's enough, too much or just right. I can't really think how to get it any higher without going full 7 light armour, or wearing something silly like spinners, and I imagine fully penetrating vMA bosses isn't even possible or worth trying for. I'm just wondering what most people do, thanks.

The bosses range from mostly 9.1k -12k resistance, with a few instances at the cap of 18.2k.

https://eso-u.com/articles/resistances_of_everything_in_veteran_maelstrom_arena

Due to those reasons, around 10-13k pen is solid for an average imo without wasting too much or being too far under.

For Mag, you're gonna have like 13k just from 7 Light Armor + Major Breach so you're good.

For Stam, 9k is covered under Minor/Major Breach, since you can kinda rely on physical damage to proc Minor Breach for you passively now and you can guarantee Major from NMG, Razor Caltrops or a class skill. With CP thats 9700, so I'd maybe add a little more with 1 piece of Sharpened or a mace to round up to 11.4-13k.

Not sure how Vateshran works.. Overland is 9.1k resist. Group dungeons/trials is 18.2k