Low population bonus BROKEN!

Cavedog · August 2019

Right now, PC NA, Kaalgrontiid, all populations are showing as two bars. But blue is getting a low population bonus, while the other two factions get hosed.

Please ZOS, PLEASE, re-evaluate the low population bonus and how the math works. This has been happening at least a few days of every week for at least the last two campaigns. The low population bonus idea sounds good, but it's broken as is.

Jayman1000 · August 2019

is it because blue has less players in cyro?

Kuramas9tails · August 2019

There's a scoring underdog bonus too. Are the blues score really low in the campaign?

Cavedog · August 2019

Jayman1000 wrote: »

is it because blue has less players in cyro?

No, as I stated in the OP, all populations are showing as having two bars of population.

Cavedog · August 2019

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

There's a scoring underdog bonus too. Are the blues score really low in the campaign?

No, blue is in second place, both on the scoreboard and in hourly scoring right now.

Jayman1000 · August 2019

Cavedog wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

is it because blue has less players in cyro?

No, as I stated in the OP, all populations are showing as having two bars of population.

But maybe two bars is not representative for the actual amount of players? Could be just the bars graphic representation that is wrong? would be nice if zos could clarify.

Jayman1000 · August 2019

btw doesnt this bonus to low pop/low score alliance punish weaker players that are playing in an alliance that has high pop or high score?

essi2 · August 2019

DC sometimes gets the Moral Boost even when they are Pop locked and leading

This is not a new issue though, this also happened on the old instances.

Dagoth_Rac · August 2019

Is low population based on number of bars (visible to us) or number of players (not visible to us)? If 1 bar is 0%-30%, 2 bars is 30%-60%, 3 bars is 60%-90%, and locked is 90%+, then it is possible for two factions to have same number of bars but a significant difference in player population.

daemonios · August 2019

Lovely how issues seem to persist for years on end in ESO. I stopped playing Cyrodiil in late 2015/early 2016 because of a faction exploiting the hell out of the low-pop bonus (was mostly interested in the campaigns). The bonus was not real time, it got triggered under certain conditions and lasted for some time after that even if the pop bar situation is reversed, so the faction benefiting from the underdog bonus could be pop locked against lower population factions. I'm assuming it still works the same way, with the same potential for abuse and the same lack of response from ZOS.

It was the same when ZOS took away forward camps but didn't disable the ones obtained prior to that... only they did it a few hours sooner on NA, so certain guilds in EU stockpiled them and used them for weeks while everyone else had no chance to get a forward camp.

It was the same when Cheat Engine exploiting became so ubiquitous that legit players recorded themselves flying and spamming ultimates one after the other, then a few got banned, and when the brouhaha died down they were unbanned again.

It's the same with in-combat lasting minutes in Cyrodiil and preventing gear/skill swaps and riding; mobs getting aggroed in dungeons and blocking progress through doors because they won't reset and the players don't know they're aggroed; your weapons being invisible, with the the back bar weapon being shown at your feet; players being routinely feared through walls at known places; players running on top of their mounts; the UI putting people off certain activities unless they play on PC and can use add-ons...

I find it sad that ZOS commits so little to the competitive and fun aspect of its own game that they simply allow exploiting to run unchecked or refuse to fix clearly broken things. During QuakeCon they did announce a schedule of upcoming improvements and fixes. I expected it to build on Matt Firor's post from back in April, but if you squeeze that info you'll see that it essentially boils down to the same thing we knew since then, with some things expected in Update 24 and a few more in the pipeline for next year. I want to believe they're starting to change, but I'll wait until I see some results.

Cavedog · August 2019

daemonios wrote: »

Lovely how issues seem to persist for years on end in ESO. I stopped playing Cyrodiil in late 2015/early 2016 because of a faction exploiting the hell out of the low-pop bonus (was mostly interested in the campaigns). The bonus was not real time, it got triggered under certain conditions and lasted for some time after that even if the pop bar situation is reversed, so the faction benefiting from the underdog bonus could be pop locked against lower population factions. I'm assuming it still works the same way, with the same potential for abuse and the same lack of response from ZOS.

It was the same when ZOS took away forward camps but didn't disable the ones obtained prior to that... only they did it a few hours sooner on NA, so certain guilds in EU stockpiled them and used them for weeks while everyone else had no chance to get a forward camp.

It was the same when Cheat Engine exploiting became so ubiquitous that legit players recorded themselves flying and spamming ultimates one after the other, then a few got banned, and when the brouhaha died down they were unbanned again.

It's the same with in-combat lasting minutes in Cyrodiil and preventing gear/skill swaps and riding; mobs getting aggroed in dungeons and blocking progress through doors because they won't reset and the players don't know they're aggroed; your weapons being invisible, with the the back bar weapon being shown at your feet; players being routinely feared through walls at known places; players running on top of their mounts; the UI putting people off certain activities unless they play on PC and can use add-ons...

I find it sad that ZOS commits so little to the competitive and fun aspect of its own game that they simply allow exploiting to run unchecked or refuse to fix clearly broken things. During QuakeCon they did announce a schedule of upcoming improvements and fixes. I expected it to build on Matt Firor's post from back in April, but if you squeeze that info you'll see that it essentially boils down to the same thing we knew since then, with some things expected in Update 24 and a few more in the pipeline for next year. I want to believe they're starting to change, but I'll wait until I see some results.

I have not been able to figure out if this is an exploit, or just a really bad formula for calculating the bonus. Either way, the issue should be looked at for sure.

Thoragaal · August 2019

Aren't those bonuses only applied after calculating the avarage amount of players over the past 4 hours? Which means that you can have a pop locked faction with the low pop bonus only because the past 4 hours they were significantly less.

Thogard · August 2019

The bars graphics lag. Underdog bonus doesn’t. Check the bars 30 min later and it should correspond.

itscompton · August 2019

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Is low population based on number of bars (visible to us) or number of players (not visible to us)? If 1 bar is 0%-30%, 2 bars is 30%-60%, 3 bars is 60%-90%, and locked is 90%+, then it is possible for two factions to have same number of bars but a significant difference in player population.

The bars have always been a terrible way to show player population because of what you point out. I'd really like to see a more detailed UI showing how many people are actually on each faction.

madrab73 · May 2021

This is still broken 2 years later. Can it be removed from the game until fixed please?

Anyron · May 2021

Dc low pop bonus is broken for years, thats nothing new, but waiting for fix in PvP is like waiting for snow in summer

madrab73 · May 2021

Anyron wrote: »

Dc low pop bonus is broken for years, thats nothing new, but waiting for fix in PvP is like waiting for snow in summer

Two winter's have passed including a year of performance

GlorphNoldorin · May 2021

IIRC the low pop bonus was based on a rolling average every 1 hour. I am not sure of how many hours of lower pop is required to get the bonus but it does persist after populations change. Some tried to explain to me that there are actually two different bonuses but I cant remember the explanation.

Aerenthir · May 2021

That's some powerful Necro right there. Reviving a two year old thread.

ZOS_Volpe · May 2021

Greetings,

We've closed this thread as some of its information may no longer be relevant. Please feel free to start a new topic on this subject if you wish to discuss it further.

Thank you for your understanding.