Shield wall does not block unblockable skills

Draevik · May 2021

Yes, this does sound obvous, because Shield Wall is auto block. But an ultimate ability should not be circumvented by regular class skills. Shield Wall should read:

"Blocks all imcoming attacks, including unblockable attacks"

Normal block, should definitely have these abilities as a counter, but not an ultimate ability designed strictly for survival.

L_Nici · May 2021

Great idea. Then Players just throw that ult and be untouchable. That ult is alreaedy broken af, if anything it should get nerfed, maybe in duration or something. As we see even Magicka classes run it, just because Sword and Shield already over performs massively on the defensive. You already reset entire battles just by throwing that ult. Also you mitigate way to much damage. There is a reason some people can hold block and can never be killed by 20+ people.

Draevik · May 2021

L_Nici wrote: »

Great idea. Then Players just throw that ult and be untouchable. That ult is alreaedy broken af, if anything it should get nerfed, maybe in duration or something. As we see even Magicka classes run it, just because Sword and Shield already over performs massively on the defensive. You already reset entire battles just by throwing that ult. Also you mitigate way to much damage. There is a reason some people can hold block and can never be killed by 20+ people.

There are plenty of ults that reset a fight and regular skills that can do the same. Using that ult removes the opportunity to use an offensive ult.

You know what other skills vastly overperform in PVP, Streak and Fossilize and those are just normal spammable abilities.

I have seen plenty sorcs reset a fight by streaking away.

L_Nici · May 2021

You could also just accept that you were beaten, instead of resetting the fight. I don't get that mentality. So many people are so afraid of dieing in PvP that they put everything they have in defensive and procs.

Extinct_Solo_Player · May 2021

L_Nici wrote: »

Great idea. Then Players just throw that ult and be untouchable. That ult is alreaedy broken af, if anything it should get nerfed, maybe in duration or something. As we see even Magicka classes run it, just because Sword and Shield already over performs massively on the defensive. You already reset entire battles just by throwing that ult. Also you mitigate way to much damage. There is a reason some people can hold block and can never be killed by 20+ people.

I wouldn't say its overperforming af considering the amount of things that go through block, sure its an annoyance on some players but that's more so the class and build they are running more so than snb ult itself. I don't think there ever has been someone unkillable 20v1 unless the players attacking them are full on potatoes. To note, i'm not asking for snb ult to be buffed or nerfed, if anything i would like snb to be revamped. For it should be a pressure type damage option instead of having full on defensive skills and passives. There needs to be a balance between tankiness and damage instead of using it for full on defense which makes it boring and a no brainer for anyone to use it back bar for only defense.

Draevik · May 2021

L_Nici wrote: »

You could also just accept that you were beaten, instead of resetting the fight. I don't get that mentality. So many people are so afraid of dieing in PvP that they put everything they have in defensive and procs.

Except if you ever fight me in BGs you will see that I am one of the few people that rarely run, either to avoid an outnumbered gank or getting a lame attack from someone after I am already low on resources. I build my toons to stand and fight, not run away like the majority of players do.

It is a simple concept of design, and ultimates sole defensive purpose should not be circumvented by a regular ability.

Vevvev · May 2021

Draevik wrote: »

You know what other skills vastly overperform in PVP, Streak and Fossilize and those are just normal spammable abilities. .

Definition of a Spammable is you can spam it. Fossilize can only be cast on a target with no CC immunity and thus can't be spammed like Streak. Yes it's the best melee stun in the game, but emphasis on melee. Not going to zap up to someone and instantly stun them like you can with Streak.

Draevik · May 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

You know what other skills vastly overperform in PVP, Streak and Fossilize and those are just normal spammable abilities. .

Definition of a Spammable is you can spam it. Fossilize can only be cast on a target with no CC immunity and thus can't be spammed like Streak. Yes it's the best melee stun in the game, but emphasis on melee. Not going to zap up to someone and instantly stun them like you can with Streak.

Well you get what I mean, you can cast it easily as long as they don't have immunity, and that actually makes it far better than most CC because you don't waste resources. Having such an easy visual cue as to when you can stun someone is immensely helpful. Regardless, point still stands it is unblockable.

Grimlok_S · May 2021

It's almost like unblockable abilities are like... a counter to block.

Who'd have thunk it?

Sleep724 · May 2021

L_Nici wrote: »

Great idea. Then Players just throw that ult and be untouchable. That ult is alreaedy broken af, if anything it should get nerfed, maybe in duration or something. As we see even Magicka classes run it, just because Sword and Shield already over performs massively on the defensive. You already reset entire battles just by throwing that ult. Also you mitigate way to much damage. There is a reason some people can hold block and can never be killed by 20+ people.

Show us who is holding block against 20 SKILLED players and surviving. Protip: they’re not.

And every class has a way of resetting fights. How is popping ANY defensive ult over performing?

xylena_lazarow · May 2021

Sleep724 wrote: »

Show us who is holding block against 20 SKILLED players

Show me the 20 skilled players who would waste their time zerging one person.

Defensive ults may save you from being zerged, but they also lead to terrible open world PvP play patterns, stalling the fight until one side stacks a big enough lag zerg to win trivially. There's no way in hell any of them need a buff.

Marcus_Aurelius · May 2021

Shield Wall has a 6 sec duration and cost 135 ultimate.
You guys really think is op?

I understand you like to streak everyone always but please

ResidentContrarian · May 2021

Draevik wrote: »

Yes, this does sound obvous, because Shield Wall is auto block. But an ultimate ability should not be circumvented by regular class skills. Shield Wall should read:

"Blocks all imcoming attacks, including unblockable attacks"

Normal block, should definitely have these abilities as a counter, but not an ultimate ability designed strictly for survival.

Response to bolded:

Yet, Meteor and Leap can sometimes be "absorbed" by ball of lightning and countered by cloak/invis pot.
Yet, soul assault can have part of its damage cloaked through, you can outheal it easily, and it can also be absorbed.
Yet, all single target ults can be countered by cloak or invis pot.
Yet, all single target ults can be countered with any repositioning skill, all melee ults an too.
Yet, all ults with a cast time can be countered and/or lose effectiveness by any skill that CC's, esp. time stop.
Yet, all healing ults are countered by defile OR by the massive damage a regular skill or execute can do.

Yeah, not seeing the logic here.

And

Shield ult shouldn't be buffed in any way, shape or form when one morph also reflects damage. In fact, shield ult is so powerful that it's still worth running even with gaze of sithis reducing block mitigation. I know so because I used shield ult and gaze of sithis to cheese vet trials on the PTS and it offered so much protection that swarms of enemies in Vet trials could not kill me with minimal input (increasing damage and sustain). With that build in mind, there will be enough defense in PvP without buffing shield ult.

You call shield ult a defensive ult for survival, but the truth is that it actually automates defense and provides an offensive window too. What that means is that if it has no counter, it then becomes the ultimate OFFENSIVE ult that also provides defense - something anyone with balance in mind would find OP.

It's obvious what you want to happen and why you want it buffed, the ultimate result would be that speedy builds with super offensive capabilities wearing gaze of sithis next patch will have zero counters if shield ult is changed in the way you describe.

Fact of the matter is that most skills that go through block happen to CC, immobolize or snare you - the only counters to a build using speed and damage (that will have access to massive defense and sustain too next patch making them the absolute META in PvP, just you guys wait and see ..believe in me. Okay enough of that! AHEM).

My response is that I will oppose it on grounds that it is going to destroy any little balance PvP has right now, and the already dwindling balance in store for next patch.

Draevik · May 2021

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

Yes, this does sound obvous, because Shield Wall is auto block. But an ultimate ability should not be circumvented by regular class skills. Shield Wall should read:

"Blocks all imcoming attacks, including unblockable attacks"

Normal block, should definitely have these abilities as a counter, but not an ultimate ability designed strictly for survival.

Response to bolded:

Yet, Meteor and Leap can sometimes be "absorbed" by ball of lightning and countered by cloak/invis pot.
Yet, soul assault can have part of its damage cloaked through, you can outheal it easily, and it can also be absorbed.
Yet, all single target ults can be countered by cloak or invis pot.
Yet, all single target ults can be countered with any repositioning skill, all melee ults an too.
Yet, all ults with a cast time can be countered and/or lose effectiveness by any skill that CC's, esp. time stop.
Yet, all healing ults are countered by defile OR by the massive damage a regular skill or execute can do.

Yeah, not seeing the logic here.

And

Shield ult shouldn't be buffed in any way, shape or form when one morph also reflects damage. In fact, shield ult is so powerful that it's still worth running even with gaze of sithis reducing block mitigation. I know so because I used shield ult and gaze of sithis to cheese vet trials on the PTS and it offered so much protection that swarms of enemies in Vet trials could not kill me with minimal input (increasing damage and sustain). With that build in mind, there will be enough defense in PvP without buffing shield ult.

You call shield ult a defensive ult for survival, but the truth is that it actually automates defense and provides an offensive window too. What that means is that if it has no counter, it then becomes the ultimate OFFENSIVE ult that also provides defense - something anyone with balance in mind would find OP.

It's obvious what you want to happen and why you want it buffed, the ultimate result would be that speedy builds with super offensive capabilities wearing gaze of sithis next patch will have zero counters if shield ult is changed in the way you describe.

Fact of the matter is that most skills that go through block happen to CC, immobolize or snare you - the only counters to a build using speed and damage (that will have access to massive defense and sustain too next patch making them the absolute META in PvP, just you guys wait and see ..believe in me. Okay enough of that! AHEM).

My response is that I will oppose it on grounds that it is going to destroy any little balance PvP has right now, and the already dwindling balance in store for next patch.

I don't know why you think this is such a powerful ultimate. Because if it was used to be an offensive tool not everybody in the world would use dawnbreaker of smiting or every other ultimate available.

The ironic thing is the you speak of as being speedy, are usually people running speed build sorcerers and dks in my experience. Both streak and fossilize are more broken than the shield wall ultimate by a mile. I don't think I can count any times that I've been killed by someone using the shield wall ultimate as offensive tool I just wait it out.

No I do not have a hidden agenda or some super secret leet build that I want to be op. It sounded like you presumed that I did or had plans to run a speed build. i will gladly say I do not run any speed builds besides a NB and I rarely play him. I don't tend to run away in PVP, old fashioned I guess.

DrSlaughtr · May 2021

If so many people already run it (they do) then it must be working pretty good already.