Any changes to Vampire skill line?

Stevie6 · May 2021

I've been trying to like the new vampire skill line but it just doesn't work for me. Using health to make a couple of skills function is bad news while engaging any content. I like using werewolf which is STAMINA based and feels fluid. However, vampire doesn't feel natural with a magicka based character. It's like it should be it's own class. Doesn't fit with magicka or stamina. Bleed damage and health doesn't sound magicka to me.

I'm probably playing it all wrong but this just feels like garbage. (i'm trying to make it work without a regen set or ring of the pale order).

AuraStorm43 · May 2021

Sadly the only real use for the skill line currently is shimmering frenzy and even thats only on niche pale order setups in pve and bombers in pvp

I’d like to see the skill line reworked to make skills more viable personally, werewolves are far better and in desperate need of some nerfs

Fennwitty · May 2021

People wanted a balanced vampire, we got a Blood Mage instead.

Jeremy · May 2021

Stevie6 wrote: »

I've been trying to like the new vampire skill line but it just doesn't work for me. Using health to make a couple of skills function is bad news while engaging any content. I like using werewolf which is STAMINA based and feels fluid. However, vampire doesn't feel natural with a magicka based character. It's like it should be it's own class. Doesn't fit with magicka or stamina. Bleed damage and health doesn't sound magicka to me.

I'm probably playing it all wrong but this just feels like garbage. (i'm trying to make it work without a regen set or ring of the pale order).

Spending health to use abilities is a good alternative for some tank set ups, since their health recovery is way better than their magic recovery. So it enables them put out a little more offense when they aren't tanking and need to kill enemies themselves. I have a Night Blade tank for example who uses Blood for Blood as a "spammable" when he's soloing. Works pretty good.

ThoughtRaven · May 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

Spending health to use abilities is a good alternative for some tank set ups, since their health recovery is way better than their magic recovery. So it enables them put out a little more offense when they aren't tanking and need to kill enemies themselves. I have a Night Blade tank for example who uses Blood for Blood as a "spammable" when he's soloing. Works pretty good.

And this just supports the idea that vampire abilities have become niche to the point of uselessness for most builds. People want to bring vampire skills, passives, etc into endgame.
Not see them relegated to adding dps to a tank build doing overland.

Vanya · May 2021

Any changes? Who wants to get rid of the nearly unlimited Sprint granting invisibility and many other useful {Yea useful in my opinion} I have a rank 10 Vampire Goddess. WereWolf is extremely limited to Vampire. Vampire after all feels twas more invested to it and has greater feel ,animations and its basically Permanent basis. Four stages of Vampirsim are extremely easy to keep up. Again the comparison to Werewolf , why must bear so much similarity at all? I actually embrace the Vampirsim, the Crude Werewolves can have their furballs and I prefer Vampire over smashing 1 - 2 buttons and very fast paced game-play. Vampire is for more subtle and patient souls which does not mean Werewolf is bad ,quite contrary it can be blast,short lived though.

Vevvev · May 2021

To make vampire work you need insanely high healing. I'd recommend getting the Ring of the Pale Order to make it work.

(1 item) Restore 18% of the damage you deal as Health, up to a maximum of 2750 Health per attack. You cannot be healed by anyone but yourself.
https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order

The PTS has a change to this ring with the following:

Ring of the Pale Order:
Increased the amount of healing done from this set to 20% of your damage done, up from 18%.
This set now loses 4% of its value per group member you are with. This means if you are alone it will stay at 20% but reduce to 8% if you are in a group with 3 other players, and 0% when with 5 or more other players.
Removed the heal cap from this set.

There are other things you can use to offset the health cost of abilities like Blood Frenzy and Blood for Blood. One is for Blood Frenzy go with the Sated Fury morph that restores some of the siphoned health when toggled off. This when coupled with powerful self heal abilities like Burning Embers, Critical Surge, and Swallow Soul is very good. Those same abilities I mentioned and others can be used to offset Blood for Blood, but I'd honestly cast a long heal over time like Radiating Regeneration from the Restoration staff skill line.

Edit: Reason I'd use a long heal over time is because for example Radiating Regeneration on a damage build will give over 20k total health over 10 seconds for a base cost of 2,700 magicka. Blood for Blood costs 2,295 HP meaning you have about 8.7 casts of Blood for Blood for only 2,700 magicka. That makes this ability far more efficient than a standard spammable. It is so efficient in fact that when used right offsets the non-vampire cost increase, and might even make your sustain better! Don't underestimate it, especially with how it's damage scales up when on low health.

Hexi · May 2021

Vampire is supposed to be a "flavour" skill line, not mandatory like it was for the passives.

ThoughtRaven · May 2021

Hexi wrote: »

Vampire is supposed to be a "flavour" skill line, not mandatory like it was for the passives.

Yes, but where the benefits were too universally useful previously they've gone too far in the other direction and nerfed the "flavor" from a few too many shots of espresso all the way to weak tea.

FluffWit · May 2021

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

Sadly the only real use for the skill line currently is shimmering frenzy and even thats only on niche pale order setups in pve and bombers in pvp

I’d like to see the skill line reworked to make skills more viable personally, werewolves are far better and in desperate need of some nerfs

Surprisingly the big drop they gave us in resistances seems to have worked with werewolves and we really don't feel OP in Cyrodiil anymore.

Of course that will probably change next month since ZOS is being very stubborn about not nerfing the Crimson set.

PigofSteel · May 2021

There are good builds but if i look back...

Jeremy · May 2021

ThoughtRaven wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Spending health to use abilities is a good alternative for some tank set ups, since their health recovery is way better than their magic recovery. So it enables them put out a little more offense when they aren't tanking and need to kill enemies themselves. I have a Night Blade tank for example who uses Blood for Blood as a "spammable" when he's soloing. Works pretty good.

And this just supports the idea that vampire abilities have become niche to the point of uselessness for most builds. People want to bring vampire skills, passives, etc into endgame.
Not see them relegated to adding dps to a tank build doing overland.

I was just giving the OP an example of how I've found a use for it. I don't play DPS characters, so I wouldn't assume what I said was the only way to use the ability.

Stevie6 · May 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

ThoughtRaven wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Spending health to use abilities is a good alternative for some tank set ups, since their health recovery is way better than their magic recovery. So it enables them put out a little more offense when they aren't tanking and need to kill enemies themselves. I have a Night Blade tank for example who uses Blood for Blood as a "spammable" when he's soloing. Works pretty good.

And this just supports the idea that vampire abilities have become niche to the point of uselessness for most builds. People want to bring vampire skills, passives, etc into endgame.
Not see them relegated to adding dps to a tank build doing overland.

I was just giving the OP an example of how I've found a use for it. I don't play DPS characters, so I wouldn't assume what I said was the only way to use the ability.

I did end up making a magesorc hvy armor build for survival. Not really tanking or dps. I thought maybe vampire would be interesting but....found it to be not my cup of tea. I will wait until after the June update for any changes to the vampire skill line. I’ll probably end up getting the cure....the old vamp was better for magicka users.

Ryuvain · May 2021

Vanya wrote: »

Any changes? Who wants to get rid of the nearly unlimited Sprint granting invisibility and many other useful {Yea useful in my opinion} I have a rank 10 Vampire Goddess. WereWolf is extremely limited to Vampire. Vampire after all feels twas more invested to it and has greater feel ,animations and its basically Permanent basis. Four stages of Vampirsim are extremely easy to keep up. Again the comparison to Werewolf , why must bear so much similarity at all? I actually embrace the Vampirsim, the Crude Werewolves can have their furballs and I prefer Vampire over smashing 1 - 2 buttons and very fast paced game-play. Vampire is for more subtle and patient souls which does not mean Werewolf is bad ,quite contrary it can be blast,short lived though.

This. Vampire is much better than werewolf now. Werewolf can only be a stam dps and that's it. They lose versatility from most of their class and weapon too. How are people saying werewolf is overpowered? At least as vampire I dont lose my purge, streak, cloak, netch, blast bones, etc.

A lot of people also run vamp for passives alone, maybe even just for the ultimate. I've seen tons of vamps in comparison to wolves. That undeath passive and spell/weapon damage passive is great as well. Even sneak speed helps a lot in pvp.

People really need to try vampire instead of automatically saying it's garbage and calling wolves op.

maximusrex45 · May 2021

I would be happy if they just made Hypnosis work correctly on NPCs so I can interact at stage 4. I think it would also be cool if out of combat we could have the option to hide vampire visuals.

Michaelkeir · May 2021

I agree with you whole heartedly OP. I thought and still do feel the same as you do. I think they tried to make vampires feel unique but instead they botched the job and did things that I just find hard to understand.
My main issue with vampires are;
-Lack of a true vampire lord form. Copy and paste of Necromancer ultimate.
-Using health for heals.
-Blood Frenzy as a whole. Should be replaced.
-Vampiric Drain is bad. Barely heals and is a channel that doesn’t stun. Mediocre damage.
-Seems I’ll suited for stamina builds.

And instead of admitting they messed up, they just stand firm and go silent.

Best you can do is build around the downfalls of the vampire. Sets that heal and as others have said Ring of the Pale order helps with this. On my vampire NB tank I use Crimson and Leeching and that 2 piece that drains life from a target (forgot the name). More trash mobs I’m surrounded by, the more heals I get.

Stevie6 · May 2021

People really need to try vampire instead of automatically saying it's garbage and calling wolves op.

vampire just feels like a class on it's own and doesn't blend in with magicka or stamina characters. You basically have to design a character around vampire. Werewolves are not op but work within the bounds of a stamina character. My idea was to develop a character that incorporates the vampire skill line. Skills should be magic based and leave health alone. Now I have to come up with a setup that gives me health and magicka back...two stats. Werewolf, just eat your target and move on.

I do have ring of the pale order but would rather come up with some overland / crafted setup that works. I WOULD like to obtain the crimson / leeching plate but not in the picture atm...

Ryuvain · May 2021

Stevie6 wrote: »

People really need to try vampire instead of automatically saying it's garbage and calling wolves op.

vampire just feels like a class on it's own and doesn't blend in with magicka or stamina characters. You basically have to design a character around vampire. Werewolves are not op but work within the bounds of a stamina character. My idea was to develop a character that incorporates the vampire skill line. Skills should be magic based and leave health alone. Now I have to come up with a setup that gives me health and magicka back...two stats. Werewolf, just eat your target and move on.

I do have ring of the pale order but would rather come up with some overland / crafted setup that works. I WOULD like to obtain the crimson / leeching plate but not in the picture atm...

I see what you mean. Just saying that vampires main strength is being able to combine passives with a class. For example a vamp templar will still spam jabs because its so good. With vampire you can have any number of passives like undeath, free spell/weapon power, sneak speed, along with your class strengths.

If you're trying to go full vamp, I would say use the health drain cp along with either pale order or a healing set. Use scion form as much as possible as it's another source of damagevamp.

I do think that vamp was made this way on purpose. Even now vampire can be taken only for passives. Only downside stopping everyone from being all vampires is the ability cost.

Being able to mix with class skills so easily holds vampires skill power back. If anything was too good, just slap it on a necro or warden and you could just be even more broken. That's how vampire was before revamp, taken by default for good free passives.