Idea for handling hate whispers

Larthorin · May 2021

As someone who has played PvP for over 5 years now, I have noticed a growing trend in sending hateful messages and then immediately blocking that person so that they can't respond to the message. While I personally never block anyone, I fully understand the idea of being able to block someone from messaging in order to avoid interaction with someone. But I also believe there is a better way to handle this in order to either reduce the amount of outgoing hate whispers or at least allow people to respond.

The overall idea is some sort of timer before you can block someone that you just messaged. For instance, if someone were to message me something hateful, they can't block me for 5 minutes after they sent that message which allows me time to respond to that message. And if I choose not to reply, I can immediately block them so that I don't receive any further hate messages. So in this scenario, you still allow someone who doesn't want to RECEIVE messages to block someone, assuming they didn't personally send out hateful messages beforehand, while ensuring that everyone has the option to respond to hate messages. Also, you can't message someone that you personally have blocked, even if they don't have you blocked. This ensures that you don't block someone first, and then message them something hateful.

While this can be countered by playing in offline mode or immediately switching to offline mode, I still believe that this will help deter some people from sending hateful messages which should be the overall goal. Since you can still send mail to someone who is offline, utilizing playing in offline isn't a 100% guarantee that you won't see a response from someone you sent a hate whisper to. Being able to send out hateful things knowing that the person you are sending it to won't be able to respond or defend themselves is a relatively unhealthy setup for the game and hopefully this or something similar to this proposed solution will help the situation in some way.

Goregrinder · May 2021

I've been playing in offline mode for the past like...3 years now? Maybe 4 years. It works wonders, especially when I'm on my Gankblade during midyear mayhem.

Larthorin · May 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

I've been playing in offline mode for the past like...3 years now? Maybe 4 years. It works wonders, especially when I'm on my Gankblade during midyear mayhem.

This is definitely an option but this is also forcing you to not be able to talk in whispers to anyone else in the game. I'm not always in a guild or group with people that I want to talk to so this limits part of the social aspect of the game in order to avoid receiving hate whispers. And while you play offline, you still have the ability to message anyone you want which is still not very healthy for the game. I just think that if you are playing offline, you also shouldn't be able to whisper people because it's very one-sided. All other chats can be fair game, but for whispers specifically, because that's how you typically talk to people in another faction while in Cyrodiil, if you play offline, you shouldn't be able to whisper people. This to me is just the best way to deter hate whispers in general without full blown message censorship and what not which is not what I want in the game at all.

Fennwitty · May 2021

I appreciate the sentiment, but two "wrongs" won't make a right. You're essentially asking the devs to code a way for people to engage each other in a string of potentially toxic messages back and forth for 5 minutes. Basically sanctioning PvP "road rage."

Take a screenshot and report the user. Probably a more constructive use of your time that also helps others from not having to deal with that person in the future.

Goregrinder · May 2021

Larthorin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I've been playing in offline mode for the past like...3 years now? Maybe 4 years. It works wonders, especially when I'm on my Gankblade during midyear mayhem.

This is definitely an option but this is also forcing you to not be able to talk in whispers to anyone else in the game. I'm not always in a guild or group with people that I want to talk to so this limits part of the social aspect of the game in order to avoid receiving hate whispers. And while you play offline, you still have the ability to message anyone you want which is still not very healthy for the game. I just think that if you are playing offline, you also shouldn't be able to whisper people because it's very one-sided. All other chats can be fair game, but for whispers specifically, because that's how you typically talk to people in another faction while in Cyrodiil, if you play offline, you shouldn't be able to whisper people. This to me is just the best way to deter hate whispers in general without full blown message censorship and what not which is not what I want in the game at all.

That is correct, which is why I do it. I personally don't like being bothered randomly when I am running solo. If I need to whisper someone I'll set my status as Online really quick, but there is no one that needs to communicate with me so any whispers I do get will be from strangers about things that I won't have to time for anyways. But for people who want to get random whispers, this option will definitely require a little micromanagement via toggling it on and off. But for me, this works out great.

YandereGirlfriend · May 2021

IMO, it's almost never worth the time to bother responding to someone.

If they are really that mad in a game then, reading between the lines, they're not bashing you for you they're bashing you because their life isn't going well and you're the easiest target to displace their rage.

Not that it makes what they do at all okay or that the onus should be on the victim to block them, it's just usually the context of online rage.

So I would just block them and then also report them if their salt crosses the line into abuse.

Larthorin · May 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

I appreciate the sentiment, but two "wrongs" won't make a right. You're essentially asking the devs to code a way for people to engage each other in a string of potentially toxic messages back and forth for 5 minutes. Basically sanctioning PvP "road rage."

Take a screenshot and report the user. Probably a more constructive use of your time that also helps others from not having to deal with that person in the future.

I mean this is already a part of the game when people decide not to play offline or block people. This idea is more to deter people from sending something out in the first place because they know that the other person can respond. It isn't promoting anything because either side can stop responding, wait 5 minutes and then block someone or report someone. In the same sentiment, the person who initially received the hate whisper can immediately block the person as long as they don't respond which again is a way that doesn't promote PvP road rage. But it does deter someone who doesn't want to receive any hate from sending it out in the first place.

SammyKhajit · May 2021

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

IMO, it's almost never worth the time to bother responding to someone.

If they are really that mad in a game then, reading between the lines, they're not bashing you for you they're bashing you because their life isn't going well and you're the easiest target to displace their rage.

Not that it makes what they do at all okay or that the onus should be on the victim to block them, it's just usually the context of online rage.

So I would just block them and then also report them if their salt crosses the line into abuse.

Fully agree. Don’t engage or just respond with a

This one does feel sorry for the toxic whisperers’ families and especially if they have any children. Unpleasant online tends to be replicated in real life as well.

Larthorin · May 2021

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

IMO, it's almost never worth the time to bother responding to someone.

If they are really that mad in a game then, reading between the lines, they're not bashing you for you they're bashing you because their life isn't going well and you're the easiest target to displace their rage.

Not that it makes what they do at all okay or that the onus should be on the victim to block them, it's just usually the context of online rage.

So I would just block them and then also report them if their salt crosses the line into abuse.

While this is definitely the best way to handle receiving a hate message, I still believe that the current system does nothing to deter sending it out in the first place which is the main problem I'm trying to solve here. The point isn't to promote responding to hate but rather deter any hate from being said because you know you can still receive it once you've sent it.

CaptainVenom · May 2021

/ignore and carry on.

Unless they are breaking the rules, then /ignore and report them.

Jeremy · May 2021

Larthorin wrote: »

As someone who has played PvP for over 5 years now, I have noticed a growing trend in sending hateful messages and then immediately blocking that person so that they can't respond to the message. While I personally never block anyone, I fully understand the idea of being able to block someone from messaging in order to avoid interaction with someone. But I also believe there is a better way to handle this in order to either reduce the amount of outgoing hate whispers or at least allow people to respond.

The overall idea is some sort of timer before you can block someone that you just messaged. For instance, if someone were to message me something hateful, they can't block me for 5 minutes after they sent that message which allows me time to respond to that message. And if I choose not to reply, I can immediately block them so that I don't receive any further hate messages. So in this scenario, you still allow someone who doesn't want to RECEIVE messages to block someone, assuming they didn't personally send out hateful messages beforehand, while ensuring that everyone has the option to respond to hate messages. Also, you can't message someone that you personally have blocked, even if they don't have you blocked. This ensures that you don't block someone first, and then message them something hateful.

While this can be countered by playing in offline mode or immediately switching to offline mode, I still believe that this will help deter some people from sending hateful messages which should be the overall goal. Since you can still send mail to someone who is offline, utilizing playing in offline isn't a 100% guarantee that you won't see a response from someone you sent a hate whisper to. Being able to send out hateful things knowing that the person you are sending it to won't be able to respond or defend themselves is a relatively unhealthy setup for the game and hopefully this or something similar to this proposed solution will help the situation in some way.

lol, I have noticed this trend as well. They like to send you some snotty insult or taunt then block you so you can't respond. It's extremely cowardly. But hey, it saves you the trouble of having to ignore them personally and thus take up a valuable spot on your list. So I don't really see it as a problem. More of a favor honestly. I wish all the ___ _____ who play this game (and there are plenty) would just block me. I prefer it that way.

redlink1979 · May 2021

The best move it's not to reply a hateful whisper. Don't fuel the pointless chat. Just ignore it.

Larthorin · May 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

lol, I have noticed this trend as well. They like to send you some snotty insult or taunt then block you so you can't respond. It's extremely cowardly. But hey, it saves you the trouble of having to ignore them personally and thus take up a valuable spot on your list. So I don't really see it as a problem. More of a favor honestly. I wish all the ___ _____ who play this game (and there are plenty) would just block me. I prefer it that way.

Well until you kill them again and they message you more hate because you never actually blocked them.

rpa · May 2021

Why would you want to communicate with the kind who send hate whispers anyway? If you want to be sarcastic mail em a potato with polite thanks but ignoring would be more productive.

Jeremy · May 2021

Larthorin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lol, I have noticed this trend as well. They like to send you some snotty insult or taunt then block you so you can't respond. It's extremely cowardly. But hey, it saves you the trouble of having to ignore them personally and thus take up a valuable spot on your list. So I don't really see it as a problem. More of a favor honestly. I wish all the ___ _____ who play this game (and there are plenty) would just block me. I prefer it that way.

Well until you kill them again and they message you more hate because you never actually blocked them.

So then you block them. The only thing their sniveling tactic accomplished was sparing you the temptation of engaging with them in the first place, which is always a waste of time and effort. So in that sense, they really are doing you a favor, though unwittingly of course.

Larthorin · May 2021

redlink1979 wrote: »

The best move it's not to reply a hateful whisper. Don't fuel the pointless chat. Just ignore it.

But again I don't understand why the mentality is to just accept it and move on rather than try to remove as much hate whispering as possible. You are just asking the person receiving a hate tell to be the better person with no consequence to the person that sent the hate in the first place. I know this isn't a full-proof plan but I do believe that it would help in some capacity which is better than leaving it as is.

AuraNebula · May 2021

I never get hate whispers on my bomber, and I think I'm pretty good. My friend said it's because I have a girly name and that somehow deters hate messages. Or maybe I am not as good as I think I am, which is probably more likely.

I do get creepy ones though lol.

Larthorin · May 2021

rpa wrote: »

Why would you want to communicate with the kind who send hate whispers anyway? If you want to be sarcastic mail em a potato with polite thanks but ignoring would be more productive.

It's less about wanting to message back and more about deterring people from initially engaging in the conversation because they know the other person at least has the ability to message back.

Larthorin · May 2021

AuraNebula wrote: »

I never get hate whispers on my bomber, and I think I'm pretty good. My friend said it's because I have a girly name and that somehow deters hate messages. Or maybe I am not as good as I think I am, which is probably more likely.

I do get creepy ones though lol.

Yeah, creepy messages is another thing entirely. Wish there was some solution for that other than just blocking them because a lot of the time they want you to respond. Sorry you have to go through that.

Jeremy · May 2021

Larthorin wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

The best move it's not to reply a hateful whisper. Don't fuel the pointless chat. Just ignore it.

But again I don't understand why the mentality is to just accept it and move on rather than try to remove as much hate whispering as possible. You are just asking the person receiving a hate tell to be the better person with no consequence to the person that sent the hate in the first place. I know this isn't a full-proof plan but I do believe that it would help in some capacity which is better than leaving it as is.

It's just a game and some random message from some random stranger who means nothing to you. If you let them get under your skin then they win regardless, and that's what they did if you feel compelled to message them back. Trust me, I've been there and know how you feel. You have to learn to not care what internet strangers think. That's the only realistic solution to this. That and to make liberal use of your ignore button, which works wonders.

Larthorin · May 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

It's just a game and some random message from some random stranger who means nothing to you. If you let them get under your skin then they win regardless, and that's what they did if you feel compelled to message them back. Trust me, I've been there and know how you feel. You have to learn to not care what internet strangers think. That's the only realistic solution to this. That and to make liberal use of your ignore button, which works wonders.

I know that it is pretty idealistic but I also believe that within a video game, you can be a little more idealistic in how things are handled and changed rather than the way everything is in real life.

AuraNebula · May 2021

Larthorin wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

I never get hate whispers on my bomber, and I think I'm pretty good. My friend said it's because I have a girly name and that somehow deters hate messages. Or maybe I am not as good as I think I am, which is probably more likely.

I do get creepy ones though lol.

Yeah, creepy messages is another thing entirely. Wish there was some solution for that other than just blocking them because a lot of the time they want you to respond. Sorry you have to go through that.

Yeah I usually have to do the blocking with those ones. It's okay, part of being a girl. Just let it roll off like water on a duck's back.

Jeremy · May 2021

Larthorin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It's just a game and some random message from some random stranger who means nothing to you. If you let them get under your skin then they win regardless, and that's what they did if you feel compelled to message them back. Trust me, I've been there and know how you feel. You have to learn to not care what internet strangers think. That's the only realistic solution to this. That and to make liberal use of your ignore button, which works wonders.

I know that it is pretty idealistic but I also believe that within a video game, you can be a little more idealistic in how things are handled and changed rather than the way everything is in real life.

You can't eliminate "hate" in any environment, video game or otherwise, where it involves real people, since it's a genuine and natural emotion we all have. It can be tempered and restrained, but eventually everyone demonstrates it in some form at one time or another, especially in a competitive situation like PvP. Even generally nice people could be experiencing a bad day and be prone to lashing out. This isn't to excuse those who go out of their way to be ___ _____, just the realization it's going to happen.

I understand your proposal for a 5 minute cool down to prevent the taunt and block tactic, because it can be aggravating. But I still think the best way to deal with this is look at the bigger picture and the fact they spared you the temptation of engaging with them in the first place, which is almost never a good idea no matter how justified you may feel it is at the time.

Larthorin · May 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

You can't eliminate "hate" in any environment, video game or otherwise, where it involves real people, since it's a genuine and natural emotion we all have. It can be tempered and restrained, but eventually everyone demonstrates in some form at one time or another, especially in a competitive situation like PvP. Even generally nice people could be experiencing a bad day and be prone to lashing out. This isn't to excuse those who go out of their way to be ___ _____, just the realization it's going to happen.

I understand your proposal for a 5 minute cool down to prevent the taunt and block tactic, because it can be aggravating. But I still think the best way to deal with this is look at the bigger picture and the fact they spared you the temptation of engaging with them in the first place, which is almost never a good idea no matter how justified you may feel it is at the time.

I mean you don't actually know that they whispered and blocked you unless you tried to respond but yes I definitely see your point. And I believe that what you are describing is the best way to handle the situation when on the receiving end. I just wish there was a way to deter people from initiating. Maybe instead of having that 5 minute window, you just can't whisper people that you have blocked or can't whisper people while playing in offline mode. That way it is at least more work for the person sending out the hate whisper. Especially if they want to continue sending you stuff so they would have to unblock, send another message and then block again. There is no easy solution to all of this but I also don't like the idea of just accepting the way it is and just asking everyone to deal with it.

Fennwitty · May 2021

I think a simpler solution would be to prevent whispers to other people in the zone if they're not your faction (for Cyro) or disable entirely for Battlegrounds.

Sure they can 'remember' you later but it takes a super special kind to leave Cyrodiil just to send a hate whisper one time, and hopefully they get distracted by the next BG if they're continuing them.

Larthorin · May 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

I think a simpler solution would be to prevent whispers to other people in the zone if they're not your faction (for Cyro) or disable entirely for Battlegrounds.

Sure they can 'remember' you later but it takes a super special kind to leave Cyrodiil just to send a hate whisper one time, and hopefully they get distracted by the next BG if they're continuing them.

I've definitely thought of that but I just feel that it would be too limiting. Especially for people that have lots of friends from all factions. It would definitely work but I think you are getting a little too far into the other extreme at that point.

Jeremy · May 2021

Larthorin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

You can't eliminate "hate" in any environment, video game or otherwise, where it involves real people, since it's a genuine and natural emotion we all have. It can be tempered and restrained, but eventually everyone demonstrates in some form at one time or another, especially in a competitive situation like PvP. Even generally nice people could be experiencing a bad day and be prone to lashing out. This isn't to excuse those who go out of their way to be ___ _____, just the realization it's going to happen.

I understand your proposal for a 5 minute cool down to prevent the taunt and block tactic, because it can be aggravating. But I still think the best way to deal with this is look at the bigger picture and the fact they spared you the temptation of engaging with them in the first place, which is almost never a good idea no matter how justified you may feel it is at the time.

I mean you don't actually know that they whispered and blocked you unless you tried to respond but yes I definitely see your point. And I believe that what you are describing is the best way to handle the situation when on the receiving end. I just wish there was a way to deter people from initiating. Maybe instead of having that 5 minute window, you just can't whisper people that you have blocked or can't whisper people while playing in offline mode. That way it is at least more work for the person sending out the hate whisper. Especially if they want to continue sending you stuff so they would have to unblock, send another message and then block again. There is no easy solution to all of this but I also don't like the idea of just accepting the way it is and just asking everyone to deal with it.

I think I agree with you here. This is a problem across the entire spectrum of the internet and a flaw in how the ignore function works generally. It needs to be two-way. That way when someone puts another person on ignore it stops either party from being able to see or respond to each other. I don't know why it's not made this way, but it should be.

So maybe let's put the cool down on using the ignore feature itself: for example: if I put you on ignore that means I will not be able to see or respond to your comments (and vice versa) for at least 24 hours, at which point I'll have the option to remove you from my list but only if you agree to it (similarly to a friend request but in reverse). That way the ignore function couldn't be abused in a cowardly fashion like this to initiate fights but then hide behind ignore. It was also prevent people from being able to comment on what others say who have them on ignore, which is also a big problem on the internet and part of the reason more people don't use the ignore feature. Because in a sense, it really just gives a person free reign to bash what you say without the opportunity to defend yourself.

FluffWit · May 2021

I think I've had pvp hate mail 6 times in 6 years.

And I do get a lot of whispers from people that have nothing to do with pvp while I'm in Cyrodiil would suck to not be able to communicate them.

Just block em and move on.

Larthorin · May 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

I think I agree with you here. This is a problem across the entire spectrum of the internet and a flaw in how the ignore function works generally. It needs to be two-way. That way when someone puts another person on ignore it stops either party from being able to see or respond to each other. I don't know why it's not made this way, but it should be.

So maybe let's put the cool down on using the ignore feature itself: for example: if I put you on ignore that means I will not be able to see or respond to your comments (and vice versa) for at least a 24 hours, at which point I'll have the option to remove you from my list but only if you agree to it (similarly to a friend request but in reverse). That way the ignore function couldn't be abused in a cowardly fashion like this to initiate fights but then hide behind ignore.

I think something like this would be a great addition to the game. While it doesn't prevent the very first message from going out, it prevents any escalation afterwards from both parties which is definitely still improvement of the system. Now we just need the devs to actually acknowledge this for any hopes of a change.

Jeremy · May 2021

Larthorin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I think I agree with you here. This is a problem across the entire spectrum of the internet and a flaw in how the ignore function works generally. It needs to be two-way. That way when someone puts another person on ignore it stops either party from being able to see or respond to each other. I don't know why it's not made this way, but it should be.

So maybe let's put the cool down on using the ignore feature itself: for example: if I put you on ignore that means I will not be able to see or respond to your comments (and vice versa) for at least a 24 hours, at which point I'll have the option to remove you from my list but only if you agree to it (similarly to a friend request but in reverse). That way the ignore function couldn't be abused in a cowardly fashion like this to initiate fights but then hide behind ignore.

I think something like this would be a great addition to the game. While it doesn't prevent the very first message from going out, it prevents any escalation afterwards from both parties which is definitely still improvement of the system. Now we just need the devs to actually acknowledge this for any hopes of a change.

Yeah, I think something like this needs to be done across the board in every online environment and forum. As I added in my last post: it would was also prevent people from being able to comment on what others say who have them on ignore, which is also a big problem on the internet and part of the reason more people don't use the ignore feature. Because in a sense, it really just gives a person free reign to bash what you say without the opportunity to defend yourself.

It would also reduce the need for excessive moderation, because trolling would be more difficult to do since a person could effectively avoid it by refraining in totality from discussion with those they don't get along with. I don't know why something like this hasn't happened already.

phaneub17_ESO · May 2021

People are going to be childish, especially when they're in their 20s and 30s, it's just human nature. I think its hilarious how serious people take video games.