For us non-gamblers, can we get some cooler mount options please? I'll pay the crowns....

KalyanLazair · April 2021

I'm not going to enter the discussion about whether CC are gambling or not because, in all honesty, I don't care about semantics. It is enough for me that luck is involved, and that is where I want to focus on. I don't do crates. The reason why I don't do crates it is because 99% of the stuff in there is trash I do not want. However, I am very willing to buy the stuff I do want for crowns. If I want a wolf pet, I buy the wolf pet, not a chance to get the wolf pet thus risking stuffing my account with things I will never use.

This is the reason I totally agree with the OP. I have also gotten the feeling that, since the crates were released the number of mounts and pets released to the CS have gone down. I don't know about other stuff as most of what I buy are mounts and pets, but my point stands. While a lot of content is released for the CC, not so much seems to be released to the CS, and many of them look of lower quality than the things created for the store. I'm not even talking about the apex mounts or anything, but just go to the mount category. We haven't had a new camel or bear in ages, and I've seen several bears locked under the crown crates. I would be more than happy to buy the Dark Moons Lynx pet right now, and I do have the gems, but I totally, totally, totally refuse to submit to it. I am a willing buyer, but I will pay for what I want, not for a chance.

I wouldn't cry if crates were completely removed, but I'm really not asking for that. What I do want to see is more stuff available in the Crown Crates. Honestly, there are those of us who are not going to buy crates, and we've been playing for many years so by now I think it is pretty obvious we're just not buying them. However, I think it is not a very logical marketing strategy to ignore willing customers who are pretty much telling you; "I will give you my money if you give me goods".

DawnsLight65 · April 2021

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

All the coolest mounts are behind the gambling paywall. And I'm not going to do that. Gambling is an addicting habit, and it's unethical to provide the option to little kids through a video game.

Please ZOS. Can you at least add some cooler mount options that you can directly purchase through the crown store? God forbid do some cooler mount options available through in game activity. I know theres like some dwarven wolf mount, but that's not half as cool as all those mounts with the crazy ghost flames swirling around them.

They are introducing the Seals of Endeavor, like Transmute Crystals, Writs, and Undaunted Keys, that will allow you to do certain quests to get the Seals which will allow you to purchase the apex mounts that are currently only avail via Crown Gems.

DawnsLight65 · April 2021

Shantu wrote: »

About 5 years into ESO and I have never bought a single Crown Crate. Never have, never will. Personally I abhor the whole RNG gimmick so interwoven into just about everything players may desire to have. The randomness of rewards for your time and effort is utter BS. It's like working a job for a random amount of money on your paycheck. I'll gladly invest whatever effort is necessary to achieve something I desire, but running content a few hundred times and STILL not achieving the reward really gets under my skin.

I liked it when they still offered crown crates as part of the daily reward cycle. I'd give up the 2K in poisons they foist on us and I wind up destroying for the crown crates to be part of the cycle again.

Vonkarolinas · April 2021

Brrrofski wrote: »

Endeavors for sure aren't goodwill.

My guess is that they're trying to get people who don't buy crates to buy crates.

People 100% will start earning them, realise they want something and probably buy crates to finish off the amount of gems.

Been saving up for two months for that radiant apex. Crates are changing in 3 days. Better buy some crates to get that last 100 gems so you can buy it before it goes!.

I didn't see where anyone had addressed this, so to clarify. This is NOT a way to get people to buy crates. It has already been explained that the Endeavors system does not work this way. You earn Seals of Endeavor, a separate currency, to buy the crate items.

You can not combine crown gems and Seals of endeavor to buy something. So, (to use your example) if crates are changing in 3 days and you are 100 Seals of endeavor short then buying crates to try and get 100 gems will be a waste of money. Sure, you will get the crates, any rewards from them you decide to keep, and the crowns, but you will still be short the 100 Seals of endeavor that you need before the crates change.

So, definitely not an attempt to get people to buy crates.

Jeffrey530 · April 2021

Riptide wrote: »

But these latest apex radiant are quite a lot more expensive than 100. I’d have to get out a pencil and it of course be an approximation, but the fanciest one closer to 1,000.

When I see one out in the wild I feel sorry for the owner. They are not the status symbol they think they are, but the scars of victimization

Scars of victimization? I don't have a radiant apex personally but if people have them and use it, yea they prob love showing off but how are all of them 'victims'? Some probably may act on impulsivity and spend a huge chunk of money, that's just harsh and out of touch with reality, some people can afford these mounts without even making a dent in their wallet. Sounds just like sour grapes to me that you are trying to belittle those who have the power to spend.

Jeffrey530 · April 2021

Starlock wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

All these posts about endeavours... Endeavours are a good addition to the game, though it was probably brought about by legal concerns rather than compaany goodwill, but you know, they could just put some mounts in the store for direct purchase... like they used to do before crates. Why go on some roundabout way: money->crowns->crates->gems (or game gold->gifted crates->gems), or not have the option at all when wanting to avoid crates altogether, to have a cool mount in-game? They definitely should add more things for direct purchase to the store... having crates, and gem-exclusive things is just a price inflation hidden behind currencies. Think about it: polymorphs were never sold more than 2k crowns, if the new poly gets sold for 200 gems, could you get 200 gems from 2k crates (unless relying on rare RNG that gives duplicate apex mounts or a sweetroll)? It's a rotten system, and players SHOULD ask for more direct purchase items in the store.

Endeavors for sure aren't goodwill.

My guess is that they're trying to get people who don't buy crates to buy crates.

People 100% will start earning them, realise they want something and probably buy crates to finish off the amount of gems.

Yes. It's the same tactic Fallout 76 pulled with their seasons system. In many ways it is worse, because the endeavors system links up to a gambling system instead of just allowing players to earn cash shop currency or other rewards more generally. If endeavors was a way to earn cash shop currency more generally, it could be a massive win for customer-friendly monetization.

Sadly that isn't what we're getting. We're getting a skinner box that links into a game's gambling system that will expose more people to the potential risk of overspending or gambling addiction. I can't even be surprised about it at this point, but it'd be nice to see something in the direction of ethical monetization for once. I can forgive a GaaS for being chock full of skinner boxes (see here for a short video about what this is) to some extent - it's simply the nature of the beast - but marrying that to monetization systems, especially gambling? It's gross, to put it kindly.

Two ways ZoS can (but won't) fix this system before it launches:
Keep the system largely as it is, but remove gambling crates entirely. All crate rewards can be earned solely through the new endeavors system.

Keep the system largely as is, but make crowns the earned currency instead. Combine with number one for a double pro-customer, ethical monetization win.

Honestly all I see is hypocrisy. Mmo itself is predatory and unethical by nature and never 'pro customer'. Before even playing, we all know that if it isn't going for your wallet, it is going to make you spend an un-proportionate amount of time playing it, the genre itself is maintained by playing the A game at human psychology. Want that 'earnable free' emperor costume or polymorph or mount? Grind for countless hours and live a life inside the game to get it. Gaming addiction is as real and serious as gambling addiction. It is down to each person to have self awareness and seek help when needed.

If you are really so against mmos preying on the vulnerable as you expressed, please also speak up for those with video game addictions as well, and this means also objecting the endeavor system + any other systems that are competitive/involve grinding, features that lure people to play non-stop. Oh wait, that means pretty much any mmos or multiplayer games.

I never understand the concept of 'someone is addicted to x, we should ban x because x is unethical, manipulative and detrimental to one's health' Let's then ban smoking, alcohol, video games, tv shows, casinos, surgary drinks, everything pleasurable in life. We know regulations aren't cutting it and millions of people are still addicted to these.

Tethilia · April 2021

I think there should be some mounts that are Radiant Apex in quality only obtainable through very hard achievements. Like a show of elite gameplay. Like 100 Crafting Motifs gets you a Skyforge Steel Armored Horse, or Clearing 25 Dungeons under a timelimit without dying and with the final boss in hardmode.

Tethilia · April 2021

One more. I would like another Antiquities mount, but the leads have a low chance to drop from Vet content.

Elsonso · April 2021

Starlock wrote: »

Two ways ZoS can (but won't) fix this system before it launches:
Keep the system largely as it is, but remove gambling crates entirely. All crate rewards can be earned solely through the new endeavors system.

Keep the system largely as is, but make crowns the earned currency instead. Combine with number one for a double pro-customer, ethical monetization win.

You are correct, they will never do either.

By using a new currency, there is no intersection between the systems. This protects the Golden Goose. If they block the way to get Gems from Endeavors, then you have TWO currencies that buy the same thing. You cannot use them efficiently, and a lot of players will end up with both. Gems can endlessly be manufactured by buying more loot boxes. Seals are capped. Your best bet will still be to manufacture Gems to buy what you want.

It will be interesting to see what a Seal will buy. I am still guessing that a Seal will be worth much less than a Gem. This is required to encourage people to use Gems.

Frozenskye · April 2021

I want to get this in before it inevitably gets locked.

The crusade against loot boxes is a lost cause. Whether or not one's position on the topic is for or against. The ban in Belgium, to my understanding, is a ban on loot boxes sold to minors only. Meaning loot boxes are still okay, as long as the games go up in rating. Here in the US, the ESRB is merely a figurehead and not a real regulatory agency. Most of the board are CEO's or former CEO's of publishers themselves. I'm telling you right now, all that would happen, is that M rated games go to 18 or 21 years of age pending state or local gambling laws, they'll slap a tiny little picture and put gambling in tiny little print on the back of the box, and still put games out chock full with loot boxes.

In the digital age of the video game industry, age restrictions are laughably, woefully inept, and far easier to circumvent entirely. I can't remember the last time I bought a physical copy (well, I can, just bought a switch and figured I'd get a few hard copies since I didn't have a decent sized micro sd yet), and some games are forgoing that entirely.

So while a crusade against loot boxes is probably for the best, in the long run, the furor will die down, the ESRB rating system will shift quietly into the night, and the system will continue regardless.

Also, on topic, would love to see some more mounts added into the game, earnable in game as well. I feel like ESO is kind of lacking in that regard a bit.

Elsonso · April 2021

Frozenskye wrote: »

The crusade against loot boxes is a lost cause. Whether or not one's position on the topic is for or against. The ban in Belgium, to my understanding, is a ban on loot boxes sold to minors only. Meaning loot boxes are still okay, as long as the games go up in rating. Here in the US, the ESRB is merely a figurehead and not a real regulatory agency. Most of the board are CEO's or former CEO's of publishers themselves. I'm telling you right now, all that would happen, is that M rated games go to 18 or 21 years of age pending state or local gambling laws, they'll slap a tiny little picture and put gambling in tiny little print on the back of the box, and still put games out chock full with loot boxes.

You are correct in that the crusade against them will come to nothing. ZOS loves these things, and there are enough players that also love them that ZOS is probably printing money thanks to them.

I will never stop crusading against them, though. They don't belong in the game. Unless they are the game, they don't belong in games.

As for Endeavors and Seals, I honestly doubt that legislation, pending legislation, or threat of legislation had anything to do with it. I doubt that they are worried. This looks to be solely about compliance with Microsoft.

Starlock · April 2021

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Mmo itself is predatory and unethical by nature and never 'pro customer'. Before even playing, we all know that if it isn't going for your wallet, it is going to make you spend an un-proportionate amount of time playing it, the genre itself is maintained by playing the A game at human psychology. Want that 'earnable free' emperor costume or polymorph or mount? Grind for countless hours and live a life inside the game to get it. Gaming addiction is as real and serious as gambling addiction. It is down to each person to have self awareness and seek help when needed.

Yes, it is. What also helps is consumer protections and regulations. In addition to such things helping prevent outright scams, such protections can also add things like notices/warnings on products or facilitate access to help for those who have struggles. The ESRB, which should be doing this for video games, is... not really doing it's job very well. This was their lackluster response to the problematic inclusion of gambling in video games. It's so vague as to be useless and fails to help protect people. It makes it hard to be an informed consumer.

To add, while some potential customers may be familiar with the addictive design of MMOs and GaaS more broadly, most are not. Combine that with heavy-handed monetization systems, especially ones that are basically gambling, and there are folks here and there who unwittingly stumble into troubles. This is unfortunate in of itself but the industry response is worse. Gambling in video games needs to be regulated like any other gambling system is. Inertia is already trending in a regulatory direction in spite of industry deflections.

In any case, there will always be some market for games such as this. If content ratings are improved and modernized it'll be easier for customers to make informed choices so things like this become less of a problem.

SammyKhajit · May 2021

Crown crates are a form of gambling (similar to scratchie cards) and should be stopped. This one is baffled as to why people and mer are defending. Must be bright moons and skoomas.

Pacrooti needs to be saved from his sinful occupation as a crates peddler. Maybe he can be redeemed as a companion, where his ult is fearing and create 10000000000 damage points with RNGs

ZOS_ConnorG · May 2021

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