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Is Blackwood a business merger cash grab?
Susurrus
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Perhaps I am jaded, but I am wondering if the introduction of balance breaking sets and changes is an intention method to get people to purchase the DLC in greater numbers (pay to win).
Recent context: the purchase of CCP by Pearl Abyss. It was reported that the performance of EVE online, CCP's flagship game, in revenue would be reflected in the bonus received by CCP's execs by Pearl Abyss. It was theorized that this is the reason why a number of in game things changed for the purpose of encouraging microtransactions and subscriptions among EVE online players. Specifically, more revenue would lead to bigger bonuses for CCP execs after the acquisition. This is speculative of course.
I have to wonder if this is being repeated by the acquisition of ZOS by Microsoft. By introducing paid content that becomes 'necessary' to participate at high end, late game stuff as well as for casual players (companions), they intend to tolerate a bit of pay to win in order to get bonuses.
I mean, I can't blame them if it is so.
I think sometimes we imagine developers as people passionate about the game and its integrity. While I'm sure that is true for some, it is also a job and a business. Motivation for any content is ultimately real life money. Or, in particular regarding the endeavors system, a means of avoiding legislation - noting that loot boxes are considered gambling in the UK now and are being actively regulated as such.
To some extent, this is true of any expansion, they have to sell it to us as customers. But I wonder if the pressure is higher this patch...
Recent context: the purchase of CCP by Pearl Abyss. It was reported that the performance of EVE online, CCP's flagship game, in revenue would be reflected in the bonus received by CCP's execs by Pearl Abyss. It was theorized that this is the reason why a number of in game things changed for the purpose of encouraging microtransactions and subscriptions among EVE online players. Specifically, more revenue would lead to bigger bonuses for CCP execs after the acquisition. This is speculative of course.
I have to wonder if this is being repeated by the acquisition of ZOS by Microsoft. By introducing paid content that becomes 'necessary' to participate at high end, late game stuff as well as for casual players (companions), they intend to tolerate a bit of pay to win in order to get bonuses.
I mean, I can't blame them if it is so.
I think sometimes we imagine developers as people passionate about the game and its integrity. While I'm sure that is true for some, it is also a job and a business. Motivation for any content is ultimately real life money. Or, in particular regarding the endeavors system, a means of avoiding legislation - noting that loot boxes are considered gambling in the UK now and are being actively regulated as such.
To some extent, this is true of any expansion, they have to sell it to us as customers. But I wonder if the pressure is higher this patch...
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Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No, this has happened in the past where new powerful sets get introduced only to be nerfed some time later. It is kind of standard practice when it comes to MMO games14 -
RedTalon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Happens every chapter and dlc, people on test server more just make sure things are working and the game can run things, then when it goes live the real testing is done, followed by nerfs and changes. Just the nature of mmos5 -
kaisernick✭✭✭✭✭No, this has happened in the past where new powerful sets get introduced only to be nerfed some time later. It is kind of standard practice when it comes to MMO games
hells its not just ESO look at wow every new class they have added has started off being massivly op an eventually nerfed into the ground.
its the norm and definatly not a PTW system.6 -
yurimodin✭✭✭only 2 times that might have even been remotely the case......Vvardenfell (wardens were OP). And Summerset since you could not do jewelry crafting without it.
Otherwise I don't see a P2W at all....Cyrodil and Imp City are kind of monotonous anyway.0 -
Susurrus✭✭✭amgame308_ESO wrote: »Who hurt you?
No one? I don't see a necessary connection with a personal injury and an assessment of a business model.
Broadly speaking, I think capitalism is a problematic force in the US especially as it pertains to healthcare and government, but I don't think this is the place for that discussion.6 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭only 2 times that might have even been remotely the case......Vvardenfell (wardens were OP). And Summerset since you could not do jewelry crafting without it.
Otherwise I don't see a P2W at all....Cyrodil and Imp City are kind of monotonous anyway.
... didn't wardens start as trash. Also took a few months to fix bugs with class... though nerco is still jelly of that1 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »only 2 times that might have even been remotely the case......Vvardenfell (wardens were OP). And Summerset since you could not do jewelry crafting without it.
Otherwise I don't see a P2W at all....Cyrodil and Imp City are kind of monotonous anyway.
... didn't wardens start as trash. Also took a few months to fix bugs with class... though nerco is still jelly of that
Yeah, the tinfoil theory that new sets and skills are intentionally released as overpowered to drive sales isn't actually backed by evidence, and doesn't take counterarguments into consideration.
New Moon Acolyte and Crafty Alfiq got nerfed a few months after release, but they were "new" sets that could be traded, so they didn't require Elsweyr. They just take theorycrafted, pre-tested risks to make new sets and skills relevant, and succeed about 1/3 of the time, and sometimes have to tune them up + down.
Plus, if the sets from a new DLC weren't better than or as good as what we already have, people would complain there's no point in buying the chapter. That might create a bias against releasing new sets that are too weak, but that's very different IMO.
Older sets are often buffed or returned to relevance—what's the conspiracy theory behind why Medusa and Deadly have been buffed in the past year? Why are False God's, Relequen, Olorime, Jorvuld's, arena weapons, Mother's Sorrow, Siroria, and so on, all still part of the PvE meta if they've been nerfing old content to get people to buy the new chapter? Why wasn't everyone wearing the new Kyne's Aegis sets if this is the business strategy?PC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner3 -
phaneub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unless the merger started happening a year and a half ago, new content usually takes 2 years in advance planning and at least a year of development time before the content that comes before it is released.0 -
ThoughtRaven✭✭✭✭✭I have to wonder if this is being repeated by the acquisition of ZOS by Microsoft. By introducing paid content that becomes 'necessary' to participate at high end, late game stuff as well as for casual players (companions), they intend to tolerate a bit of pay to win in order to get bonuses.
I am 100% positive that Big M will do everything in their power to generate as much return as possible on the acquisition of Bethesda.
I am also 100% positive that the acquisition is still too recent for them to have influenced much of anything ZOS has worked on thus far. What we get with Blackwood will be overwhelmingly what we would have gotten had the acquisition not happened.4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »only 2 times that might have even been remotely the case......Vvardenfell (wardens were OP). And Summerset since you could not do jewelry crafting without it.
Otherwise I don't see a P2W at all....Cyrodil and Imp City are kind of monotonous anyway.
... didn't wardens start as trash. Also took a few months to fix bugs with class... though nerco is still jelly of that
IIRC, Wardens were very powerful on the PTS, and got nerfed before going Live. They were also pretty uneven. MagWarden had bad DPS and took several updates to really hit their stride as solid alternative healers to Templars. StamWarden on the other hand, started out quite powerful in PVP and has just kept trucking.Edited by VaranisArano on April 28, 2021 10:44PM5 -
Marto✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThoughtRaven wrote: »
I am 100% positive that Big M will do everything in their power to generate as much return as possible on the acquisition of Bethesda.
Yes and no.
Microsoft is an old company, with decades of history.
Bethesda is known for being slow with both publishing and development, often spending years without releasing new games.
Microsoft's gaming divisions (both the successful and failed ones) have had long term strategies, without expecting any profit for years. Xbox and Mixer both did this.
"According to the calculations of the sages of the Cult of the Ancestor Moth, the batam guar is the cutest creature in all Tamriel"0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ThoughtRaven wrote: »I have to wonder if this is being repeated by the acquisition of ZOS by Microsoft. By introducing paid content that becomes 'necessary' to participate at high end, late game stuff as well as for casual players (companions), they intend to tolerate a bit of pay to win in order to get bonuses.
I am 100% positive that Big M will do everything in their power to generate as much return as possible on the acquisition of Bethesda.
I am also 100% positive that the acquisition is still too recent for them to have influenced much of anything ZOS has worked on thus far. What we get with Blackwood will be overwhelmingly what we would have gotten had the acquisition not happened.
Agreed, I think we will see the bigger changes down the road in 1-2 years. Microsoft will definitely want to invest in ESO to make it a more popular and profitable MMO, probably increase the advertising.
let's face it - WoW advertising campaigns are on a whole other level.0 -
Tethilia✭✭✭Yeah, I would wait until things go Live before worrying about overpowered and underpowered sets. It hasn't released yet so things are likely to change with community feedback. (Cough cough Ring of the Pale Order)0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭On what basis would this even be a thing? It's got nothing that would make people pay money for, except for some new sets that are powerful which has been the same exact cycle for like the past 4 years.
They have no pay2win mechanics are actually making crown crates more consumer friendly.
The entire game is based around nostalgia.
And top it off this expansion has most certainly been in the works LONG before this deal was finalized.
There's being cynical and there's randomly claiming stuff is some kind of crash grab at a consumer product you because you don't like it.
There's absolutely zero evidence Microsoft made them charge more. And the only thing notable since the merger in regards to money is that crown crates are suddenly in line with Microsoft policy on being earnable in-game.
This expansion is all on Zos.Edited by spartaxoxo on April 28, 2021 11:57PM0 -
Solid_Metal✭✭✭✭✭ThoughtRaven wrote: »I have to wonder if this is being repeated by the acquisition of ZOS by Microsoft. By introducing paid content that becomes 'necessary' to participate at high end, late game stuff as well as for casual players (companions), they intend to tolerate a bit of pay to win in order to get bonuses.
I am 100% positive that Big M will do everything in their power to generate as much return as possible on the acquisition of Bethesda.
I am also 100% positive that the acquisition is still too recent for them to have influenced much of anything ZOS has worked on thus far. What we get with Blackwood will be overwhelmingly what we would have gotten had the acquisition not happened.
Agreed, I think we will see the bigger changes down the road in 1-2 years. Microsoft will definitely want to invest in ESO to make it a more popular and profitable MMO, probably increase the advertising.
let's face it - WoW advertising campaigns are on a whole other level.
i don't think what ESO lack is advertising, popularity of ESO already backed by years of franchise, and at this point, i think everyone already know the existence of ESO
the only problem with ESO is how niche it is, especially with the gameplay/combat, most people i know and also reviewer/youtuber who didn;t like the game is solely because of combat, big M have lot of resources and probably have more than enough to enhance underlaying problem/limitation of the engine and server"i will walk through the fog, as i welcome death"0 -
NoSoup✭✭✭✭✭I'm sorry but hasn't this been every chapter & DLC? You can't possibly be arguing that you've been able to compete at the "high end stuff" up until now but this chapter is whats going to ruin it for you......Formally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....0
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Moonsprite✭✭✭I think the new Endeavor system is a step in the direction of making more things available by actually playing the game. This is the opposite of money grabbing.
Every MMORPG wants to sell their new expansion/Chapter/DLC and comes out with new gear/items etc. Things in WoW become Legacy and no longer work in the new expansion ever. At least in ESO most things remain viable even if they aren’t the best set anymore.
In WoW and FFXIV they offer level boosts so new players can jump right in to the new content in the new expansions. In ESO because you can go anywhere at any level, they probably don’t want new and returning players feeling like they have to go back and do old content to be viable either. It’s a tricky balancing act every MMORPG has to deal with.0 -
etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't buy the conspiracy theory. A lot of clever people outside the game versus a small number of developers will always mean that the clever people outside the game find cunning ways to use new gear, or even changed gear. The stranglers are a fine example of that. A supposedly balanced item had its disadvantage totally subverted by smart people. The same is already happening on the PTS with the Sithis mythic where it seems nobody thought about werewolf use of it.
The chapters have had quite explicit ways to sell it beyond content. Greymoor had antiquities, Summerset jewellery crafting and so on. No need to look for hidden sinister goings on, there are obvious intended and promoted ways.
The only Microsoft footprint I see so far is the crown crate changes - odds publishing and endeavours. Hopefully behind the scenes the Microsoft security and quality folks are also going to be involved.
Too many toons not enough time0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭etchedpixels wrote: »I don't buy the conspiracy theory. A lot of clever people outside the game versus a small number of developers will always mean that the clever people outside the game find cunning ways to use new gear, or even changed gear. The stranglers are a fine example of that. A supposedly balanced item had its disadvantage totally subverted by smart people. The same is already happening on the PTS with the Sithis mythic where it seems nobody thought about werewolf use of it.
The chapters have had quite explicit ways to sell it beyond content. Greymoor had antiquities, Summerset jewellery crafting and so on. No need to look for hidden sinister goings on, there are obvious intended and promoted ways.
The only Microsoft footprint I see so far is the crown crate changes - odds publishing and endeavours. Hopefully behind the scenes the Microsoft security and quality folks are also going to be involved.
Bingo.
And this happens to be one of ZoS' worst-QCed major releases ever. We're in the 2nd week of the PTS, and companion leveling mechanics are still too buggy to test. Meanwhile, companion tough-fight survivability is so bad that ZoS either will go live with a fiasco, or else make a hasty move to change it that necessarily cuts QC corners.0 -
Susurrus✭✭✭Interesting discussion thanks guys.
We don't have enough info to draw too many conclusions of course. I do really think that there is a relationship between endeavors and growing concerns about gambling in video games - but I am biased because I do some reseach in that area.
PTS is still early days so we'll see how .2 and .3 develop.0 -
rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Happens every buyable content drop. It's the way of B2P: people who must have everything immediately get to enjoy of the broken op and the new bugs for a while. If you wait for 2nd sale (Septemberish) by then broken op has been nerfed and those new bugs that ever will be fixed have been fixed.Edited by rpa on April 29, 2021 4:41AM0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I expect the motive of MS purchasing Zenimax is more in line with beefing up their library for the long term. MS has done well with managing their library for the long term and is likely not to establish motivations that would easily lead to tarnishing major IPs in their catalog.
I am not suggesting such things do not happen. Just that it is not likely in this case.0 -
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