Is it just me or is Sorcerer just awfully overloaded as a class in PvP?

Knavenformed · April 2021

After a good long day in Cyrodiil once again after returning to the game I've been enjoying my time a lot more with the tame non-proc Cyrodiil.
I played some Imperial City too today and had a taste of the proc set life and did have fun there too in its own way.
My first shot at Battlegrounds also was a success with a good team there.

But the more and more I focused on trying to remember the strenghts and weaknesses of each class and making a plan of attack I found out Sorcerers just have all the answers and tools to counter and attack on everything.

I hear people say that currently StamWarden is braindead easy, but going against them I've not felt that at all, the only class that actively stands out and causes a fight to go from enjoyable to a grindy fiesta is the Sorc, any other class feels fair and understandable to go against.

I get that kiting and the "1vX" is a big part of the game, but it's always a Sorcerer doing it now, no other class could just clown fiesta roflport that hard.
And seeing a Sorcerer go from 1% hp to eating 5 snipes in overshield in an instant before Lethal Arrow could connect just felt bad.

So for context I am running a Poison Bow DK, with Spriggans and Swamp Raider for BG gameplay more or less, can't be arsed to farm Draugr Hulk with these queue times for Cyrodiil, so overshields are a natural counter for me and I have beaten Sorcs running the build somewhat well when they are lacking in possible kiting skill.

But when I have thoughts like "Oh my resource regen isn't that good", "My escape option is trying to endure with Corrosive Skin so they lose interest" and "Man this execute needs fine timing during lag" I see a Sorc spamming with no end, teleporting constantly while having the move counter stun charges and stun offesively and they have a huge automatically proccing nuke with the execute lightning.

And if it ended there I would just take that as a natural strenght of that class, but even then through shielding I find I have an easier time killing an actual tank made on another class than a MagSorc damage dealer, it's so whack.

So, I don't really know if I'm sparking a discussion or just venting out, but tips would be appreciated since I just don't find this situation balanced in a way where I feel like a fun time is ahead when I play.

LightYagami · April 2021

Stamsorc maybe the best PvP class out of the base game classes. I guess stamdens maybe slightly better in terms of sustain and healing.

Mobility and range abilities of sorcerers are the best imo.

Gilvoth · April 2021

it is true, and has been this way since beta 8 + years ago.
sorcerer is Highly overpowered in Damage and defenses.
the developers dont pvp so they dont realize how overpowered the sorcerer class really is.

and to make matters worse they are overwhelming in numbers here on the forums all claiming that they are not overpowered and they harrass and belittle anyone that speaks out about it.

Knavenformed · April 2021

Gilvoth wrote: »

And to make matters worse they are overwhelming in numbers here on the forums all claiming that they are not overpowered and they harrass and belittle anyone that speaks out about it.

Yeah I know the meta mentality in games I like causes the best class to be the most played, and when a battle in Cyro consists of 50% sorcs I smell something fishy-

Especially when we are playing a game that's tied to the infamous "Stealth Archer" meme where you'd expect way more Nightblade Bow players, not "Triple enchanted min maxed stamina bow bomb sorc"

Knavenformed · April 2021

LightYagami wrote: »

Mobility and range abilities of sorcerers are the best imo.

What gets to me the most is the teleport, it's fine to be there as something that makes the class unique, but why does it stun?
It's a premiere escape tool in a world of targeted charges being the engage tool.

The sorc can stun and double teleport away into a distance where they are untargetable while the opponent uses resources to break free, and the skill can be used offensively into a killing ability combo.

jaws343 · April 2021

People like to complain that sorcs are op but man do they really not get what sorcs have to deal with to be even remotely good.

Been playing my sorc lately because my PVE main is sorc and I want to get all achievements, and working towards Grand Overlord at the moment on it. But I probably have more playtime on other classes in PVP.

Anyways, shields aren't as good as they seem. They break quickly, especially after the CP changes. Everyone hits hard now and shields don't scale by number of opponents. A sorc relying on shields is a sorc not doing any significant damage.

The only skill in a sorcs burst that cannot be dodged is curse. Maybe meteor too but meteor is available to everyone and is blockable. It takes forever to set up a decent burst because you almost always need the meteor ready to succeed. Everything is telegraphed and your dealing more with players roll dodging everything you throw at them. Especially if you are alone in a fight.

Your reliable class heal and sustain isn't even reliable. It has a cast time, locks you up for too long, and can be interrupted. And if you want to use the radiating for healing the heal could go to other players when you need it.

The only viable stun, streak, places you in an awful position to attack your opponent. Rune cage is plain awful, extremely telegraphed and can be dodged and the range on flame clench makes it pretty useless for a ranged class. But streak places you behind the opponent you are trying to burst. So if they aren't dead when you streak them, they are at full health by the time you can target them again.

Execute is ok in a vacuum. But it ends up only working against really bad opponents or spamming into zergs with allies nearby. The problem is the telegraphed burst of the sorc. Other classes have somewhat of a telegraph but it is more likely to be tied to the player casting the skills and not their enemy. A sorc's burst is on a timer that is visibly apparent on the player they intend to burst. Curse hits you and you have 3 seconds before you are hit with the burst. Most good opponents dodge roll immediately after curse hits. That allows them to avoid a spammable cast, mages wrath, and often a frag proc. And the the sorc streaks and stuns and maybe you take a meteor. But you dodged all of the rest of the burst.

And more on the execute. If you cast it first, it runs out of time to proc before your burst can go off.

All of these setbacks to deal with and then on top of that most players are running 30k+ health so good luck actually bursting a player down if you are alone. Even more luck to you if you are facing more than one opponent. And good luck facing a stam player who dies more damage to you. Especially a necro or warden who have even higher burst and can outsustain and out heal you.

Gilvoth · April 2021

jaws343 wrote: »

People like to complain that sorcs are op but man do they really not get what sorcs have to deal with to be even remotely good.

Been playing my sorc lately because my PVE main is sorc and I want to get all achievements, and working towards Grand Overlord at the moment on it. But I probably have more playtime on other classes in PVP.

Anyways, shields aren't as good as they seem. They break quickly, especially after the CP changes. Everyone hits hard now and shields don't scale by number of opponents. A sorc relying on shields is a sorc not doing any significant damage.

The only skill in a sorcs burst that cannot be dodged is curse. Maybe meteor too but meteor is available to everyone and is blockable. It takes forever to set up a decent burst because you almost always need the meteor ready to succeed. Everything is telegraphed and your dealing more with players roll dodging everything you throw at them. Especially if you are alone in a fight.

Your reliable class heal and sustain isn't even reliable. It has a cast time, locks you up for too long, and can be interrupted. And if you want to use the radiating for healing the heal could go to other players when you need it.

The only viable stun, streak, places you in an awful position to attack your opponent. Rune cage is plain awful, extremely telegraphed and can be dodged and the range on flame clench makes it pretty useless for a ranged class. But streak places you behind the opponent you are trying to burst. So if they aren't dead when you streak them, they are at full health by the time you can target them again.

Execute is ok in a vacuum. But it ends up only working against really bad opponents or spamming into zergs with allies nearby. The problem is the telegraphed burst of the sorc. Other classes have somewhat of a telegraph but it is more likely to be tied to the player casting the skills and not their enemy. A sorc's burst is on a timer that is visibly apparent on the player they intend to burst. Curse hits you and you have 3 seconds before you are hit with the burst. Most good opponents dodge roll immediately after curse hits. That allows them to avoid a spammable cast, mages wrath, and often a frag proc. And the the sorc streaks and stuns and maybe you take a meteor. But you dodged all of the rest of the burst.

And more on the execute. If you cast it first, it runs out of time to proc before your burst can go off.

All of these setbacks to deal with and then on top of that most players are running 30k+ health so good luck actually bursting a player down if you are alone. Even more luck to you if you are facing more than one opponent. And good luck facing a stam player who dies more damage to you. Especially a necro or warden who have even higher burst and can outsustain and out heal you.

sorcerers are killing other players in pvp in less than 3 seconds on Live right now and thats not new, been that way for many years.

jaws343 · April 2021

Gilvoth wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

People like to complain that sorcs are op but man do they really not get what sorcs have to deal with to be even remotely good.

Been playing my sorc lately because my PVE main is sorc and I want to get all achievements, and working towards Grand Overlord at the moment on it. But I probably have more playtime on other classes in PVP.

Anyways, shields aren't as good as they seem. They break quickly, especially after the CP changes. Everyone hits hard now and shields don't scale by number of opponents. A sorc relying on shields is a sorc not doing any significant damage.

The only skill in a sorcs burst that cannot be dodged is curse. Maybe meteor too but meteor is available to everyone and is blockable. It takes forever to set up a decent burst because you almost always need the meteor ready to succeed. Everything is telegraphed and your dealing more with players roll dodging everything you throw at them. Especially if you are alone in a fight.

Your reliable class heal and sustain isn't even reliable. It has a cast time, locks you up for too long, and can be interrupted. And if you want to use the radiating for healing the heal could go to other players when you need it.

The only viable stun, streak, places you in an awful position to attack your opponent. Rune cage is plain awful, extremely telegraphed and can be dodged and the range on flame clench makes it pretty useless for a ranged class. But streak places you behind the opponent you are trying to burst. So if they aren't dead when you streak them, they are at full health by the time you can target them again.

Execute is ok in a vacuum. But it ends up only working against really bad opponents or spamming into zergs with allies nearby. The problem is the telegraphed burst of the sorc. Other classes have somewhat of a telegraph but it is more likely to be tied to the player casting the skills and not their enemy. A sorc's burst is on a timer that is visibly apparent on the player they intend to burst. Curse hits you and you have 3 seconds before you are hit with the burst. Most good opponents dodge roll immediately after curse hits. That allows them to avoid a spammable cast, mages wrath, and often a frag proc. And the the sorc streaks and stuns and maybe you take a meteor. But you dodged all of the rest of the burst.

And more on the execute. If you cast it first, it runs out of time to proc before your burst can go off.

All of these setbacks to deal with and then on top of that most players are running 30k+ health so good luck actually bursting a player down if you are alone. Even more luck to you if you are facing more than one opponent. And good luck facing a stam player who dies more damage to you. Especially a necro or warden who have even higher burst and can outsustain and out heal you.

sorcerers are killing other players in pvp in less than 3 seconds on Live right now and thats not new, been that way for many years.

Killing bad players.

master_vanargand · April 2021

jaws343 wrote: »

People like to complain that sorcs are op but man do they really not get what sorcs have to deal with to be even remotely good.

Been playing my sorc lately because my PVE main is sorc and I want to get all achievements, and working towards Grand Overlord at the moment on it. But I probably have more playtime on other classes in PVP.

Anyways, shields aren't as good as they seem. They break quickly, especially after the CP changes. Everyone hits hard now and shields don't scale by number of opponents. A sorc relying on shields is a sorc not doing any significant damage.

The only skill in a sorcs burst that cannot be dodged is curse. Maybe meteor too but meteor is available to everyone and is blockable. It takes forever to set up a decent burst because you almost always need the meteor ready to succeed. Everything is telegraphed and your dealing more with players roll dodging everything you throw at them. Especially if you are alone in a fight.

Your reliable class heal and sustain isn't even reliable. It has a cast time, locks you up for too long, and can be interrupted. And if you want to use the radiating for healing the heal could go to other players when you need it.

The only viable stun, streak, places you in an awful position to attack your opponent. Rune cage is plain awful, extremely telegraphed and can be dodged and the range on flame clench makes it pretty useless for a ranged class. But streak places you behind the opponent you are trying to burst. So if they aren't dead when you streak them, they are at full health by the time you can target them again.

Execute is ok in a vacuum. But it ends up only working against really bad opponents or spamming into zergs with allies nearby. The problem is the telegraphed burst of the sorc. Other classes have somewhat of a telegraph but it is more likely to be tied to the player casting the skills and not their enemy. A sorc's burst is on a timer that is visibly apparent on the player they intend to burst. Curse hits you and you have 3 seconds before you are hit with the burst. Most good opponents dodge roll immediately after curse hits. That allows them to avoid a spammable cast, mages wrath, and often a frag proc. And the the sorc streaks and stuns and maybe you take a meteor. But you dodged all of the rest of the burst.

And more on the execute. If you cast it first, it runs out of time to proc before your burst can go off.

All of these setbacks to deal with and then on top of that most players are running 30k+ health so good luck actually bursting a player down if you are alone. Even more luck to you if you are facing more than one opponent. And good luck facing a stam player who dies more damage to you. Especially a necro or warden who have even higher burst and can outsustain and out heal you.

[snip]

Sorcerer says "block Meteor" while using Streak's unblockable AoE Stun.
And Sorcerer explains that Meteor cannot be avoided and says "use roll dodge".

In addition, Sorcerer hides behind the pet and says, "The pet is not strong because it is 2 slots", ignoring the skill of the pet.
And the Sorcerer is equipped with Engine Guardian, saying "I don't use pets".

Sorcerer moves behind while stunning enemies with Streak and is says "use gap closer".
And Sorcerer says "use Immovable pots", but when the enemy looks back, Sorcerer is far away.
Even if the enemy does not stun, the Streak train departs before the enemy targets the Sorcerer.

Best damage, best speed, best shield, best pets. Sorcerer has everything, it has no weaknesses and is the strongest.

Currently Shirodir is full of Sorcerers, and at Battlegrounds Sorcerers use Mage's Fury to stealing many kills.

Where is the game balance?

[Edited to remove Baiting]

jaws343 · April 2021

master_vanargand wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

People like to complain that sorcs are op but man do they really not get what sorcs have to deal with to be even remotely good.

Been playing my sorc lately because my PVE main is sorc and I want to get all achievements, and working towards Grand Overlord at the moment on it. But I probably have more playtime on other classes in PVP.

Anyways, shields aren't as good as they seem. They break quickly, especially after the CP changes. Everyone hits hard now and shields don't scale by number of opponents. A sorc relying on shields is a sorc not doing any significant damage.

The only skill in a sorcs burst that cannot be dodged is curse. Maybe meteor too but meteor is available to everyone and is blockable. It takes forever to set up a decent burst because you almost always need the meteor ready to succeed. Everything is telegraphed and your dealing more with players roll dodging everything you throw at them. Especially if you are alone in a fight.

Your reliable class heal and sustain isn't even reliable. It has a cast time, locks you up for too long, and can be interrupted. And if you want to use the radiating for healing the heal could go to other players when you need it.

The only viable stun, streak, places you in an awful position to attack your opponent. Rune cage is plain awful, extremely telegraphed and can be dodged and the range on flame clench makes it pretty useless for a ranged class. But streak places you behind the opponent you are trying to burst. So if they aren't dead when you streak them, they are at full health by the time you can target them again.

Execute is ok in a vacuum. But it ends up only working against really bad opponents or spamming into zergs with allies nearby. The problem is the telegraphed burst of the sorc. Other classes have somewhat of a telegraph but it is more likely to be tied to the player casting the skills and not their enemy. A sorc's burst is on a timer that is visibly apparent on the player they intend to burst. Curse hits you and you have 3 seconds before you are hit with the burst. Most good opponents dodge roll immediately after curse hits. That allows them to avoid a spammable cast, mages wrath, and often a frag proc. And the the sorc streaks and stuns and maybe you take a meteor. But you dodged all of the rest of the burst.

And more on the execute. If you cast it first, it runs out of time to proc before your burst can go off.

All of these setbacks to deal with and then on top of that most players are running 30k+ health so good luck actually bursting a player down if you are alone. Even more luck to you if you are facing more than one opponent. And good luck facing a stam player who dies more damage to you. Especially a necro or warden who have even higher burst and can outsustain and out heal you.

[snip]

Sorcerer says "block Meteor" while using Streak's unblockable AoE Stun.
And Sorcerer explains that Meteor cannot be avoided and says "use roll dodge".

In addition, Sorcerer hides behind the pet and says, "The pet is not strong because it is 2 slots", ignoring the skill of the pet.
And the Sorcerer is equipped with Engine Guardian, saying "I don't use pets".

Sorcerer moves behind while stunning enemies with Streak and is says "use gap closer".
And Sorcerer says "use Immovable pots", but when the enemy looks back, Sorcerer is far away.
Even if the enemy does not stun, the Streak train departs before the enemy targets the Sorcerer.

Best damage, best speed, best shield, best pets. Sorcerer has everything, it has no weaknesses and is the strongest.

Currently Shirodir is full of Sorcerers, and at Battlegrounds Sorcerers use Mage's Fury to stealing many kills.

Where is the game balance?

Here is everything a sorc has to do to burst someone down:

Curse
Spammable
Frag
Fury
Meteor
Streak

That is at minimum. Often it takes much linger because they need to rotate through the first 4 skills repeatedly to get a player down enough to make the burst work or regain their ult.

But at a minimum, that is 5 global cooldowns before they stun you with streak. 5 seconds to prepare. In that 5 seconds you can dodgeroll and the only skills that hit you are curse and meteor.

And let's be real here. Every class has access to an undodgeable stun. Every class. Sorc is the only one who's stun places them behind their opponent.

And really, can we give the "sorcs run away really well" nonsense a rest. Who cares if the sorc runs away. If they are running away you did your job and fought them off. Good job. Stop chasing them. Stop chasing players and then complaining because they ran away. Running away hardly makes you over powered.

ealdwin · April 2021

IMO, it's not that sorcerer is overpowered in any regard, but rather that other classes and specs (especially other mag specs) have been nerfed and neutered to the point where by comparison they are underpowered. I'd much rather see other classes buffed to the level of Sorcerer than see Sorcerer nerfed at all.

master_vanargand · April 2021

jaws343 wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

People like to complain that sorcs are op but man do they really not get what sorcs have to deal with to be even remotely good.

Been playing my sorc lately because my PVE main is sorc and I want to get all achievements, and working towards Grand Overlord at the moment on it. But I probably have more playtime on other classes in PVP.

Anyways, shields aren't as good as they seem. They break quickly, especially after the CP changes. Everyone hits hard now and shields don't scale by number of opponents. A sorc relying on shields is a sorc not doing any significant damage.

The only skill in a sorcs burst that cannot be dodged is curse. Maybe meteor too but meteor is available to everyone and is blockable. It takes forever to set up a decent burst because you almost always need the meteor ready to succeed. Everything is telegraphed and your dealing more with players roll dodging everything you throw at them. Especially if you are alone in a fight.

Your reliable class heal and sustain isn't even reliable. It has a cast time, locks you up for too long, and can be interrupted. And if you want to use the radiating for healing the heal could go to other players when you need it.

The only viable stun, streak, places you in an awful position to attack your opponent. Rune cage is plain awful, extremely telegraphed and can be dodged and the range on flame clench makes it pretty useless for a ranged class. But streak places you behind the opponent you are trying to burst. So if they aren't dead when you streak them, they are at full health by the time you can target them again.

Execute is ok in a vacuum. But it ends up only working against really bad opponents or spamming into zergs with allies nearby. The problem is the telegraphed burst of the sorc. Other classes have somewhat of a telegraph but it is more likely to be tied to the player casting the skills and not their enemy. A sorc's burst is on a timer that is visibly apparent on the player they intend to burst. Curse hits you and you have 3 seconds before you are hit with the burst. Most good opponents dodge roll immediately after curse hits. That allows them to avoid a spammable cast, mages wrath, and often a frag proc. And the the sorc streaks and stuns and maybe you take a meteor. But you dodged all of the rest of the burst.

And more on the execute. If you cast it first, it runs out of time to proc before your burst can go off.

All of these setbacks to deal with and then on top of that most players are running 30k+ health so good luck actually bursting a player down if you are alone. Even more luck to you if you are facing more than one opponent. And good luck facing a stam player who dies more damage to you. Especially a necro or warden who have even higher burst and can outsustain and out heal you.

[snip]

Sorcerer says "block Meteor" while using Streak's unblockable AoE Stun.
And Sorcerer explains that Meteor cannot be avoided and says "use roll dodge".

In addition, Sorcerer hides behind the pet and says, "The pet is not strong because it is 2 slots", ignoring the skill of the pet.
And the Sorcerer is equipped with Engine Guardian, saying "I don't use pets".

Sorcerer moves behind while stunning enemies with Streak and is says "use gap closer".
And Sorcerer says "use Immovable pots", but when the enemy looks back, Sorcerer is far away.
Even if the enemy does not stun, the Streak train departs before the enemy targets the Sorcerer.

Best damage, best speed, best shield, best pets. Sorcerer has everything, it has no weaknesses and is the strongest.

Currently Shirodir is full of Sorcerers, and at Battlegrounds Sorcerers use Mage's Fury to stealing many kills.

Where is the game balance?

Here is everything a sorc has to do to burst someone down:

Curse
Spammable
Frag
Fury
Meteor
Streak

That is at minimum. Often it takes much linger because they need to rotate through the first 4 skills repeatedly to get a player down enough to make the burst work or regain their ult.

But at a minimum, that is 5 global cooldowns before they stun you with streak. 5 seconds to prepare. In that 5 seconds you can dodgeroll and the only skills that hit you are curse and meteor.

And let's be real here. Every class has access to an undodgeable stun. Every class. Sorc is the only one who's stun places them behind their opponent.

And really, can we give the "sorcs run away really well" nonsense a rest. Who cares if the sorc runs away. If they are running away you did your job and fought them off. Good job. Stop chasing them. Stop chasing players and then complaining because they ran away. Running away hardly makes you over powered.

If enemy stop chasing Sorcerer, Sorcerer will attack to enemy.
And Sorcerer repeats it until the enemy dies.
"stop chasing Sorcerer" is a broken logic.

jaws343 · April 2021

master_vanargand wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

People like to complain that sorcs are op but man do they really not get what sorcs have to deal with to be even remotely good.

Been playing my sorc lately because my PVE main is sorc and I want to get all achievements, and working towards Grand Overlord at the moment on it. But I probably have more playtime on other classes in PVP.

Anyways, shields aren't as good as they seem. They break quickly, especially after the CP changes. Everyone hits hard now and shields don't scale by number of opponents. A sorc relying on shields is a sorc not doing any significant damage.

The only skill in a sorcs burst that cannot be dodged is curse. Maybe meteor too but meteor is available to everyone and is blockable. It takes forever to set up a decent burst because you almost always need the meteor ready to succeed. Everything is telegraphed and your dealing more with players roll dodging everything you throw at them. Especially if you are alone in a fight.

Your reliable class heal and sustain isn't even reliable. It has a cast time, locks you up for too long, and can be interrupted. And if you want to use the radiating for healing the heal could go to other players when you need it.

The only viable stun, streak, places you in an awful position to attack your opponent. Rune cage is plain awful, extremely telegraphed and can be dodged and the range on flame clench makes it pretty useless for a ranged class. But streak places you behind the opponent you are trying to burst. So if they aren't dead when you streak them, they are at full health by the time you can target them again.

Execute is ok in a vacuum. But it ends up only working against really bad opponents or spamming into zergs with allies nearby. The problem is the telegraphed burst of the sorc. Other classes have somewhat of a telegraph but it is more likely to be tied to the player casting the skills and not their enemy. A sorc's burst is on a timer that is visibly apparent on the player they intend to burst. Curse hits you and you have 3 seconds before you are hit with the burst. Most good opponents dodge roll immediately after curse hits. That allows them to avoid a spammable cast, mages wrath, and often a frag proc. And the the sorc streaks and stuns and maybe you take a meteor. But you dodged all of the rest of the burst.

And more on the execute. If you cast it first, it runs out of time to proc before your burst can go off.

All of these setbacks to deal with and then on top of that most players are running 30k+ health so good luck actually bursting a player down if you are alone. Even more luck to you if you are facing more than one opponent. And good luck facing a stam player who dies more damage to you. Especially a necro or warden who have even higher burst and can outsustain and out heal you.

[snip]

Sorcerer says "block Meteor" while using Streak's unblockable AoE Stun.
And Sorcerer explains that Meteor cannot be avoided and says "use roll dodge".

In addition, Sorcerer hides behind the pet and says, "The pet is not strong because it is 2 slots", ignoring the skill of the pet.
And the Sorcerer is equipped with Engine Guardian, saying "I don't use pets".

Sorcerer moves behind while stunning enemies with Streak and is says "use gap closer".
And Sorcerer says "use Immovable pots", but when the enemy looks back, Sorcerer is far away.
Even if the enemy does not stun, the Streak train departs before the enemy targets the Sorcerer.

Best damage, best speed, best shield, best pets. Sorcerer has everything, it has no weaknesses and is the strongest.

Currently Shirodir is full of Sorcerers, and at Battlegrounds Sorcerers use Mage's Fury to stealing many kills.

Where is the game balance?

Here is everything a sorc has to do to burst someone down:

Curse
Spammable
Frag
Fury
Meteor
Streak

That is at minimum. Often it takes much linger because they need to rotate through the first 4 skills repeatedly to get a player down enough to make the burst work or regain their ult.

But at a minimum, that is 5 global cooldowns before they stun you with streak. 5 seconds to prepare. In that 5 seconds you can dodgeroll and the only skills that hit you are curse and meteor.

And let's be real here. Every class has access to an undodgeable stun. Every class. Sorc is the only one who's stun places them behind their opponent.

And really, can we give the "sorcs run away really well" nonsense a rest. Who cares if the sorc runs away. If they are running away you did your job and fought them off. Good job. Stop chasing them. Stop chasing players and then complaining because they ran away. Running away hardly makes you over powered.

If enemy stop chasing Sorcerer, Sorcerer will attack to enemy.
And Sorcerer repeats it until the enemy dies.
"stop chasing Sorcerer" is a broken logic.

That's just not reality. A sorc who keeps fleeing s fight and reentering it is a sorc who is barely going to do anything to a player. Sorc burst isn't nearly strong enough to 100-0 a player unless that player is atrocious. A sorc using 3+ streaks to flee a fight is not coming back to fight again.

Amottica · April 2021

As a new player here, like the OP, what are these tools the sorcerer has to counter everything? Yes, I have one, but they are only level 35, not my main, but am asking out of seer interest since I have a lot to learn about this game.

Merforum · April 2021

Too many people only play 1 class so get very defensive when anything is said about it. I have stam and mag toons for each class, and 1 extra magsorc for crafting. I will way without a doubt that sorc has the best skills, and has anyone looked the passives, they're insane. Here's the funny thing Sorcerer you think is Magic right, well they are but also in ESO they are the best Stam class too.

-Reduces the Health, Magicka, and Stamina costs of your abilities by 6%.
-When you hit an enemy with a directly applied Dark Magic ability, you heal for 1600. This effect scales off your Maximum Health and can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
-After blocking an attack, your next Health, Magicka, or Stamina Ability costs 15% less.
-You restore 300 Magicka or Stamina when one of your non-Ultimate Daedric Summoning abilities end. The resource returned is dictated by the ability's cost.
-Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 15%.
-Increases your Health and Stamina Recovery by 20% while you have a Daedric Summoning ability slotted.
-Increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%.
-Increases your Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.
-Increases your damage done against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have.
-Increases your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted. Current bonus: 0%. Increases your -Maximum Health by 8% while you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

I think the w/s dmg 2% one even works for back bar, so you can have a full 2hand front bar like everyone else, and 5 sorc abilities giving 10% w/s dmg plus 5% phys dmg, plus 15% ULT (hello quick dawnbreaker)

So Streak is totally broken. BTW it is not only for getting away. It is also for entering battle where you land right on someone with an unblockable stun and start beating them senseless. If you are streaking past someone and out of position you are doing it wrong. Also fury spam can steal almost as many kills as poison inject spam. But these passives I think are really what put sorc over the top, for Stam in PVP.

FriedEggSandwich · April 2021

master_vanargand wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

People like to complain that sorcs are op but man do they really not get what sorcs have to deal with to be even remotely good.

Been playing my sorc lately because my PVE main is sorc and I want to get all achievements, and working towards Grand Overlord at the moment on it. But I probably have more playtime on other classes in PVP.

Anyways, shields aren't as good as they seem. They break quickly, especially after the CP changes. Everyone hits hard now and shields don't scale by number of opponents. A sorc relying on shields is a sorc not doing any significant damage.

The only skill in a sorcs burst that cannot be dodged is curse. Maybe meteor too but meteor is available to everyone and is blockable. It takes forever to set up a decent burst because you almost always need the meteor ready to succeed. Everything is telegraphed and your dealing more with players roll dodging everything you throw at them. Especially if you are alone in a fight.

Your reliable class heal and sustain isn't even reliable. It has a cast time, locks you up for too long, and can be interrupted. And if you want to use the radiating for healing the heal could go to other players when you need it.

The only viable stun, streak, places you in an awful position to attack your opponent. Rune cage is plain awful, extremely telegraphed and can be dodged and the range on flame clench makes it pretty useless for a ranged class. But streak places you behind the opponent you are trying to burst. So if they aren't dead when you streak them, they are at full health by the time you can target them again.

Execute is ok in a vacuum. But it ends up only working against really bad opponents or spamming into zergs with allies nearby. The problem is the telegraphed burst of the sorc. Other classes have somewhat of a telegraph but it is more likely to be tied to the player casting the skills and not their enemy. A sorc's burst is on a timer that is visibly apparent on the player they intend to burst. Curse hits you and you have 3 seconds before you are hit with the burst. Most good opponents dodge roll immediately after curse hits. That allows them to avoid a spammable cast, mages wrath, and often a frag proc. And the the sorc streaks and stuns and maybe you take a meteor. But you dodged all of the rest of the burst.

And more on the execute. If you cast it first, it runs out of time to proc before your burst can go off.

All of these setbacks to deal with and then on top of that most players are running 30k+ health so good luck actually bursting a player down if you are alone. Even more luck to you if you are facing more than one opponent. And good luck facing a stam player who dies more damage to you. Especially a necro or warden who have even higher burst and can outsustain and out heal you.

This is a lie logic often used to protect the Sorcerer.

Sorcerer says "block Meteor" while using Streak's unblockable AoE Stun.
And Sorcerer explains that Meteor cannot be avoided and says "use roll dodge".

In addition, Sorcerer hides behind the pet and says, "The pet is not strong because it is 2 slots", ignoring the skill of the pet.
And the Sorcerer is equipped with Engine Guardian, saying "I don't use pets".

Sorcerer moves behind while stunning enemies with Streak and is says "use gap closer".
And Sorcerer says "use Immovable pots", but when the enemy looks back, Sorcerer is far away.
Even if the enemy does not stun, the Streak train departs before the enemy targets the Sorcerer.

Best damage, best speed, best shield, best pets. Sorcerer has everything, it has no weaknesses and is the strongest.

Currently Shirodir is full of Sorcerers, and at Battlegrounds Sorcerers use Mage's Fury to stealing many kills.

Where is the game balance?

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

I'm really not trolling, it was a genuine question. If you answered it it might help people to address the issues you have with sorc. If you check my post history you would see that I'm not a troll. The reason I asked what class you played is because sorc is better at countering certain classes over others. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

master_vanargand · April 2021

Warden is Templar copy, Necromancer is Nightblade copy.
So what about Sorcerer and Dragonknight?
Probably Battlemage is a copy of Sorcerer.

But it's too long to wait for it to come.
Obviously, PvP should adjust the Sorcerer right now.

zvavi · April 2021

Sorcs are the mobility class... Which means that whenever there is an objective, you can fight while protecting it, while they don't get it unless they stay and fight, throwing away their mobile advantage.

master_vanargand · April 2021

The problem is that Streak is Over Powered.
Change Streak a normal Gap Closer skill that can only be activated by targeting.
If want to use mobility skill, morph to Ball of Lightning.

Gulnagel · April 2021

I play PvP everyday, and I have the most trouble with magcro and stamcro, warden aswell. Not so much by sorc, if you remove sorc escape you might aswell delete sorc, since stamina does more damage up close and we all know Mr. Jab Jab Templar would love that.

Nightblades cloak Nerf PlEaSe

Sangwyne · April 2021

Streak is pretty strong. Probably the single best skill to bring to PvP. Streak should have more counterplay, but ZOS removed the ability to block it for some reason a couple patches ago.

Compare Streak to Fossilize, before class passives. Both are unblockable stuns, but there are several key differences.
Streak has over double the range, 15m to 7.
Streak is AOE with 6m radius, Fossilize is single target.
Streak costs 3780 Magicka, Fossilize 4050.
Streak deals more damage, 1894 base Shock, to 1199 base Magic.
Streak stuns for longer, 3s to 2.5.
Most importantly, Streak grants an untargeted teleport, which is huge in PvP.

Meanwhile, Fossilize roots for 3s. And yet I've seen plenty of people claim Fossilize is pretty busted and ask for nerfs. If Fossilize is supposedly as broken as people claim, what exactly is Streak? I'd trade it for Streak in an instant.

I generally think Stamina builds are too strong in PvP compared to their Magicka counterparts, but Mag Sorc is pretty much the only Magicka build that can still compete, and the main reason for that is Streak. It's a low-cost get-out-of-jail free card with an AOE stun and damage tacked on, and then made unblockable.

ZOS_ConnorG · April 2021

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

Knavenformed · April 2021

Sangwyne wrote: »

Streak is pretty strong. Probably the single best skill to bring to PvP. Streak should have more counterplay, but ZOS removed the ability to block it for some reason a couple patches ago.

Wait.
What?

LightYagami · April 2021

Gilvoth wrote: »

it is true, and has been this way since beta 8 + years ago.
sorcerer is Highly overpowered in Damage and defenses.
the developers dont pvp so they dont realize how overpowered the sorcerer class really is.

and to make matters worse they are overwhelming in numbers here on the forums all claiming that they are not overpowered and they harrass and belittle anyone that speaks out about it.

That's because many players are using sorcerer as their main toon.
It's a loop: sorcerers perform excellent -> many players use sorcerers -> their voices are lound because of the high population -> ZOS listen to their voices -> improve sorcerers -> sorcerers are even better -> loop.

I know there are occasional nerfs but the class still out-perform most other classes.

Anyone has taken carefully look at death recaps and high MMR BG class composition or even Cyrodiil composition, it's easy to notice that stamsorcs (even magsorcs) are one of the most frequently used class in PvP.

(I'm commending from PvP perspective)

Edit: votes from players:

Sorcerer and Warden are usually the best classes VOTED.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563198/what-class-do-you-find-the-most-difficult-to-fight-in-cyrodiil-no-proc-test-edition#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561164/help-me-pick-a-stamina-class-for-alliance-pvp#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/558808/what-class-do-you-find-the-most-difficult-to-fight/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/566077/what-is-your-favourite-class-in-pvp-why/p1

Sergykid · April 2021

all spells have 3 beneficial effects to them. Some have 4 because 1 is a negative.
streak has too many benefits to it. Gap closer, gap maker (this and nightblade shade are the only ones in the game), unavoidable, cc, deals damage. There's 5 benefits instead of 3. You could say 4 because 1 is negative being increased cost,
but streak is literally spammed in cyrodiil and bgs and everywhere, even in no-cp. Idk what cost is that but it's ignored entirely, especially when you stop for 1-2 seconds to cast a deal and regain all ur mag back.

you say don't chase sorc? oh yeah so every sorc player has by default the right to never die in pvp. Just because they can run away, not reachable by gap closers. Then they can also come back to nuke you. All this while their hp not dropping under their shields.

jaws343 · April 2021

Sergykid wrote: »

you say don't chase sorc? oh yeah so every sorc player has by default the right to never die in pvp. Just because they can run away, not reachable by gap closers. Then they can also come back to nuke you. All this while their hp not dropping under their shields.

You've just described Nightblades. Who can run away far more efficiently and effectively than Sorcs. And have more untelgraphed burst to completely 100-0 you before you even know they are there. Not to mention their combo includes a stun from cloak that you literally cannot see coming. Not even saying this is necessarily bad. Just that trying to posit that Sorcs are the only class that can run away and disengage/reengage at will is wrong.

Dalsinthus · April 2021

Gulnagel wrote: »

I play PvP everyday, and I have the most trouble with magcro and stamcro, warden aswell. Not so much by sorc, if you remove sorc escape you might aswell delete sorc, since stamina does more damage up close and we all know Mr. Jab Jab Templar would love that.

Nightblades cloak Nerf PlEaSe

So much this. I play Cyrodiil every day. I encounter far more wardens and necros than sorcs and these classes are harder to kill in the hands of a competent player. I

As to the notion that sorcs are the only class that can 1vX, I am seeing lots of excellent stamina night blades that have incredible burst and can kite effectively with shade + cloak, especially in keeps.

Sorc is fine. It's a good class among several good classes.

Dunning_Kruger · April 2021

Wait till you see the 30k tooltip almalexia sorcs next patch after they “nerfed” procs lmao! they’ll never die.

NeoXanthus · April 2021

Sorcs have strong shields as well as damage mitigation, they have a class heal, they auto aim while jumping making them hard to hit as well as allowing them to easily hit hard, and lastly their multi-purpose bolt escape is over tuned for PvP. With a skilled player they are a class in regards to PvP that is a tank, dps, and healer all in one.

olsborg · April 2021

Mobility is fun, mobility is king, thats why..

Bashev · April 2021

This is the only class from the original ones that has never been in the bottom of the food chain. That is great achievement.