Proposal of Emp condition changes

LightYagami · April 2021

Currently crowning emp basically means grinding the highest AP.

IMO, being the Emperor of Cyrodiil should not only have the highest grinding skill, but also all-rounded contribution to the faction.
I have the some suggestion. Please feel free to discuss...

Same as the current main requirement, the faction must take all the inner ring keeps to crown emp for the allaince, with some pre-requisite conditions, for example:
1. Reaching at least particular PvP rank
2. Kill x number of enemies
3. Take x number of keeps
4. Defense x number of keeps
5. Take x number of resources
6. Revive x number of teammates

If the one with the highest AP doesn't fulfill all the conditions when the alliance take all the keeps, the system will check whether the 2nd highest one fulfilled the conditions, all the way to the 5th highest person.
If none of the top five fulfill the condition, the one with the highest AP will be crowned emp, as the current practice.

Within the first x hours of a 30 days or 7 days campaign, no emp will be crowned.

I watched some youtube video clips teaching people how to crown emp, but many of those methods are quite selfish and only using tricks or even working with enemies for fake fights. Some of the emps in fact harmed the team for their own benefits.

I just want to encourage team contribution instead of purely grinding. The conditions I wrote may not be the best, but just some ideas to add some conditions more related to different contributions...

AntonShan · April 2021

Let me guess, some 1st grade sergeant took emp right under your nose?

DocFrost72 · April 2021

The first issue I see is that you want to discourage grinding for AP (which would be great), then put a pvp rank requirement. That is antithetical to your idea, entirely. If a recruit is absolutely killing it, she should be empress.

Reviving is niche and I'd be careful using that. Defense ticks are bread and butter for AP farmers, so not particularly thrilled about that.

The rest definitely isn't bad. Maybe siege damage done to enemy keeps and outposts as well? That's something one person can't hog, but is definitely a contribution.

LightYagami · April 2021

AntonShan wrote: »

Let me guess, some 1st grade sergeant took emp right under your nose?

No I never grind for emp. Just wanted to discourage pure AP grinding and put more about contribution.

LightYagami · April 2021

DocFrost72 wrote: »

The first issue I see is that you want to discourage grinding for AP (which would be great), then put a pvp rank requirement. That is antithetical to your idea, entirely. If a recruit is absolutely killing it, she should be empress.

Reviving is niche and I'd be careful using that. Defense ticks are bread and butter for AP farmers, so not particularly thrilled about that.

The rest definitely isn't bad. Maybe siege damage done to enemy keeps and outposts as well? That's something one person can't hog, but is definitely a contribution.

You're right, basically I just like to add a few conditions apart from purely AP grinding.

I know a few methods to get high AP without very minimal contribution to the team too. It's kind of unfair to players who actually play the game and help the team and they are one of the top on leaderboards.

Siege damage is a good idea.

I didn't specify the numbers of reviving, not a hundred or something. Could be a low number, say ten DIFFERENT players (to reduce collaborated "fake" killing with other alliances killing and reviving the same teammate repeatedly).

Requirements on ranking can be removed with other requirements being effective.

Kwoung · April 2021

IDK, being Emp just means you top the leaderboard as it is in Cyro, meaning you ground out (or cheesed) the most AP. That's how I see almost all leaderboards actually. Whomever was willing to dedicate more of their life to the game than the next guy and learn how to maximize the return for their time investment, gets it.

Personally, I think leaderboards in general are trash, not because I do not think I can get on them (I have been top 10 numerous times in Cyro), but because they don't really reflect anything of value best case, and in the worst more common scenarios, they lead to behaviors and actions that generally end up with something that used to be fun for most, getting changed or nerfed because someone abused it in order to "become #1".

My idea of a better emp system, would be more along the lines of having to have partaken in the taking of each of the keeps required to emp, then if multiple players qualify, have a secondary condition or flat out randomize which of them gets crowned. This would effectively remove "selling emp titles" and being able to cheese them with d-ticks. It would also add a "surprise factor" as to who would get it. I find it a bit weird that you can earn emp while not even participating in the actions that led to you being crowned in many (most) cases? Especially since the taking of the keeps, is probably one of the least effective ways to earn AP, so currently some guy grinding resources, who may or may not have ever laid hands on a a piece of siege equipment, gets crowned?

biminirwb17_ESO · April 2021

Emp is an achievement, a costume and some enhanced skills while you have it.

I don't understand why people get concerned over it, there are many ways to cheese it and "former emperor" is almost as lame as "deadric lord slayer" grind for it if you want, it means very little.

LightYagami · April 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

IDK, being Emp just means you top the leaderboard as it is in Cyro, meaning you ground out (or cheesed) the most AP. That's how I see almost all leaderboards actually. Whomever was willing to dedicate more of their life to the game than the next guy and learn how to maximize the return for their time investment, gets it.

Personally, I think leaderboards in general are trash, not because I do not think I can get on them (I have been top 10 numerous times in Cyro), but because they don't really reflect anything of value best case, and in the worst more common scenarios, they lead to behaviors and actions that generally end up with something that used to be fun for most, getting changed or nerfed because someone abused it in order to "become #1".

My idea of a better emp system, would be more along the lines of having to have partaken in the taking of each of the keeps required to emp, then if multiple players qualify, have a secondary condition or flat out randomize which of them gets crowned. This would effectively remove "selling emp titles" and being able to cheese them with d-ticks. It would also add a "surprise factor" as to who would get it. I find it a bit weird that you can earn emp while not even participating in the actions that led to you being crowned in many (most) cases? Especially since the taking of the keeps, is probably one of the least effective ways to earn AP, so currently some guy grinding resources, who may or may not have ever laid hands on a a piece of siege equipment, gets crowned?

Yep Cyrodiil leaderboard is simply about grinding. I'm not a good player but I've been on the leaderboard quite a few times (Grey Host), not very high tough.

In fact the problem can be extended to the original intention of the Cyrodiil leaderboard. If ZOS' intention is simply rewarding the the most grindy player and encourage AP grinding, the Cyrodiil worked as their intention.

If they originally tried to encourage team play or contribution to the alliance, they should make some changes. The changes may not be what we proposed, but something should be done...

hafgood · April 2021

No, just no. Everyone has an equal chance of getting Emp and that is how it should be. Adding in additional requirements is just wrong, people want Emp? They know they have to get to the top of the leaderboard and stay there and hope that their alliance takes all the Emp keeps before someone grinds more AP than they have.

Just leave it alone, let new players have their shot at Emp without having to meet other artificial considerations.

If you are going the PvP rank route then it would have to be Grand Overlord, and how many players have that?

LightYagami · April 2021

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emp is an achievement, a costume and some enhanced skills while you have it.

I don't understand why people get concerned over it, there are many ways to cheese it and "former emperor" is almost as lame as "deadric lord slayer" grind for it if you want, it means very little.

I understand what you mean... I'm trying to make the title more meaningful in addition to grind grind grind grind.....

In fact creating a brand new title to reward Cyrodiil team contribution can be good too.

Kwoung · April 2021

hafgood wrote: »

No, just no. Everyone has an equal chance of getting Emp and that is how it should be. Adding in additional requirements is just wrong, people want Emp? They know they have to get to the top of the leaderboard and stay there and hope that their alliance takes all the Emp keeps before someone grinds more AP than they have.

Just leave it alone, let new players have their shot at Emp without having to meet other artificial considerations.

If you are going the PvP rank route then it would have to be Grand Overlord, and how many players have that?

No offense, but everyone is far from having an equal chance. Unless of course you mean people should just quit their jobs, have divorce filled on them, completely ignore and alienate their children and loose their friends over it. In which case then yes, everyone does have an equal chance.

And you literally just backed up what I said above, people grind and then hope their alliance takes care of performing the actions to crown them... lame.

Greasytengu · April 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

No, just no. Everyone has an equal chance of getting Emp and that is how it should be. Adding in additional requirements is just wrong, people want Emp? They know they have to get to the top of the leaderboard and stay there and hope that their alliance takes all the Emp keeps before someone grinds more AP than they have.

Just leave it alone, let new players have their shot at Emp without having to meet other artificial considerations.

If you are going the PvP rank route then it would have to be Grand Overlord, and how many players have that?

No offense, but everyone is far from having an equal chance. Unless of course you mean people should just quit their jobs, have divorce filled on them, completely ignore and alienate their children and loose their friends over it. In which case then yes, everyone does have an equal chance.

And you literally just backed up what I said above, people grind and then hope their alliance takes care of performing the actions to crown them... lame.

Jobs and family are temporary, the Empire is forever!

Indigogo · April 2021

Emp ≠ dds

Been some outstanding emps in support roles which makes conditional requirements difficult.

rbfrgsp · April 2021

Agreed that it is a corny title at the moment and sort of craps on the lore, too. Also, in the high population campaigns, it really sets an unhealthy (ie against industry recommended usage) requirement for people to sit at their desk for 16+ hrs unless they manage to snatch it in the first hour of a new campaign.

What I would wish for is a more lore-friendly and challenging Emperor title and for existing "former emp" to be edited to "false emperor" title. Still unique. Still shows you "did a thing" in the game, but doesn't ruin the immersion or the potential for a game-wide achievement.

RealLoveBVB · April 2021

Some additional requirements would be nice, in first priority to counter boosters that appears on every start of a campaign.

DrSlaughtr · April 2021

Make it so you can only emp once per campaign. /done

The people who will cheese the game to get to the top with get their emp and then they're done for 30 days. Maybe the next person boosts, too, and maybe even the person after, but eventually you'll get to the people who are actually playing the game as intended.

Kwoung · April 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Make it so you can only emp once per campaign. /done

The people who will cheese the game to get to the top with get their emp and then they're done for 30 days. Maybe the next person boosts, too, and maybe even the person after, but eventually you'll get to the people who are actually playing the game as intended.

A simple rank requirement would be nice as well.. and not one you earn after a few boosted trips to Cyro. LIke say a senior officer rank like Legate and above only. I think having to boost 30 million AP instead of simply jumpin in a new campaign would discourage most folks.

DrSlaughtr · April 2021

Yeah but what if I'm a 4 star but I decide to make a new character? I don't think that should discount BUT I see where you're going.

Kwoung · April 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Yeah but what if I'm a 4 star but I decide to make a new character? I don't think that should discount BUT I see where you're going.

I personally haven't thought through what all the downsides would be, but I would really like it if Alliance Rank was account wide, not character based. The only real benefit is dyes, which unlock for your entire account, or furnishings you can currently just go buy with that high rank character and drop in your house, so not sure why it is character based? I guess one benefit of the current system, is a few incredibly easy skill points on new PVP chars, but I am sure that could be worked out too somehow.

Jaraal · April 2021

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emp is an achievement, a costume and some enhanced skills while you have it.

It's also a unique furnishing (throne) and a pretty decent red dye. You also get some unique interactions with certain NPCs while you hold the title.

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't understand why people get concerned over it, there are many ways to cheese it and "former emperor" is almost as lame as "deadric lord slayer" grind for it if you want, it means very little.

Agreed, the title is somewhat pretentious. But it's a challenging achievement that not a lot of people can claim. It's not as grindy as say, getting Master Fisher.... but a lot of things have to align just right, and you are competing with your fellow players for the title, rather than it being a completely solo challenge.

On a side note, I will say that I'm not a fan of how some players will try to hold the title for the entire campaign, thereby blocking others from having a chance at the achievement. The unselfish ones will either drop out, hold back, or play another character to give other allies a shot at it. And I know that's not a universally held opinion, but it's my take on it.

LightYagami · April 2021

.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Yeah but what if I'm a 4 star but I decide to make a new character? I don't think that should discount BUT I see where you're going.

Easy to solve this. I didn't say a very HIGH rank is needed. It could be say a lower or intermediate rank to ensure at least that toon participated PvP and has very basic understanding and contribution. An account-wide check may also work as a player mentioned above.

To be honest, no offense, I met and killed quite a few very low ranking former emps and they looked like not even having basic PvP skills... (Unlikely alts of experienced PvPers.)

Amottica · April 2021

LightYagami wrote: »

2. Kill x number of enemies
.

I really do not know all the ins and outs of this as I am fairly new to this game. However, I detect one issue, that the suggestion is biased against healers. I admit I may be missing something but in the same token, a more experienced player may see other issues.

LightYagami · April 2021

Amottica wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

2. Kill x number of enemies
.

I really do not know all the ins and outs of this as I am fairly new to this game. However, I detect one issue, that the suggestion is biased against healers. I admit I may be missing something but in the same token, a more experienced player may see other issues.

Take it easy, I didn't say a very high kill count or landing the final hit is needed. You don't need to land the final hit to be recognized as killing someone.

(Off-topic: If you're doing the kill 40 daily while you're in a group, you have to land the final hit - you may want to solo if you're doing that daily quest, you may finish it within a short time because when soloing, kill assist will be counted too).

Trust me it's not difficult to "kill' enemies even if you're a healer if the final hit is not a must. We may also make a low requirement on landing the final hit if players prefer...

By the way, currently being PvP healers in zergling is one of the easiest way to grind AP.

Kwoung · April 2021

Amottica wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

2. Kill x number of enemies
.

I really do not know all the ins and outs of this as I am fairly new to this game. However, I detect one issue, that the suggestion is biased against healers. I admit I may be missing something but in the same token, a more experienced player may see other issues.

You get kills for healing people that get kills in ESO.

hafgood · April 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

No offense, but everyone is far from having an equal chance. Unless of course you mean people should just quit their jobs, have divorce filled on them, completely ignore and alienate their children and loose their friends over it. In which case then yes, everyone does have an equal chance.

And you literally just backed up what I said above, people grind and then hope their alliance takes care of performing the actions to crown them... lame.

No offense taken but I disagree with you. Everyone does have an equal chance. It is down to the individual player to determine whether they are willing to take that chance. I work, I have a son (am a single parent) and have had Emp. I didn't have to play 24/7 to get it, all I had to do was get to the top of the leaderboard long enough for an Emp push. One was done (two in fact as first failed) and I was crowned Emp. 45 minutes later the Reds zerged the map and I was dethroned, but I got Emp.