How to make ESO feel more like an Elder Scrolls game?
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LtClungeX✭✭✭I've only read the headline as the rest means nothing to me.
Yes, nothing.
I have never played any of the other elder scrolls games, never, not once.
I have no interest in doing so.
As I scrolled down I saw something about first person and playing the game like that. I CANNOT play first person games. It's not a will not or I could give them a go its a CANNOT. Why? Motion sickness, yup first person games make me want to puke, and I mean that literally not figuratively.
As for the rest. This is a different game to the other Elder Scrolls games, why does it have to feel the same?
Well the attraction for a lot of players is that it is an elderscrolls game.
I think to try to make it more immersive while leveling will help people with the transition from rpg to mmorpgEdited by LtClungeX on February 11, 2021 12:16PM5 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've only read the headline as the rest means nothing to me.
Yes, nothing.
I have never played any of the other elder scrolls games, never, not once.
I have no interest in doing so.
As I scrolled down I saw something about first person and playing the game like that. I CANNOT play first person games. It's not a will not or I could give them a go its a CANNOT. Why? Motion sickness, yup first person games make me want to puke, and I mean that literally not figuratively.
As for the rest. This is a different game to the other Elder Scrolls games, why does it have to feel the same?
Like I said-And before we start let me preface that I know this is not a single player Elder Scrolls game. I know this is not Skyrim or Oblivion. I get that in some ways it’s like comparing apples to oranges. But I would counter that a big reason many people play is because of the single player games and are looking for a similar experience in ESO - so it’s not that outlandish for people to ask for things to make the game feel more like the single player games but with multiplayer.
Like I also said after that -After Skyrim’s Cultural Phenomenon level of success people had a certain idea of what an Elder Scrolls game is. An expectation.
This was evident when the first images of the game came out and what we saw basically looked like WoW.
Extremely exaggerated caricature art style, huge shoulders, tab target combat, etc. everything about it was not the Elder Scrolls franchise people had become familiar with in TES III-V.
As you can imagine people were not happy with what they saw which resulted in the developers having to basically remake everything. They even had to implement first person camera because they didn’t realize just how much of the player base wanted that.
If the devs went with the logic to not at all try to make ESO resemble the single player games, then the game would be drastically different - it would have been basically a WoW rip-off with "Elder Scrolls" title - and likely have been shut down after launch.
It's because of their drastic change in direction to more resemble the single player games that ESO got a second chance and is a success today.
Edited by Iccotak on February 11, 2021 12:20PM5 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
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If the devs went with the logic to not at all try to make ESO resemble the single player games, then the game would be drastically different - it would have been basically a WoW rip-off with "Elder Scrolls" title - and likely have been shut down after launch.
OK, thats a fair reason for why the game looks and feels like it does. But there is no need to go any further in making them look the same.
They are different genres, single player rpg vs mmorpg. And as such need to look and feel different while retaining the basic sameness that is built in.
I see all the time on Facebook people saying they had played Skyrim for hours and expected the same game when they started playing ESO. The more you make the look and feel the same the harder it will be for players to make the realisation that ESO is not Skyrim online.
I'm sure there may be some reasonable suggestions in the thread (as I've already admitted I've not read them) but what I don't understand is many gamers desire to change a game from what it is to another game they play. Just accept and embrace the differences. Otherwise we may as well all go and play PacMan1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
If the devs went with the logic to not at all try to make ESO resemble the single player games, then the game would be drastically different - it would have been basically a WoW rip-off with "Elder Scrolls" title - and likely have been shut down after launch.
OK, thats a fair reason for why the game looks and feels like it does. But there is no need to go any further in making them look the same.
They are different genres, single player rpg vs mmorpg. And as such need to look and feel different while retaining the basic sameness that is built in.
I see all the time on Facebook people saying they had played Skyrim for hours and expected the same game when they started playing ESO. The more you make the look and feel the same the harder it will be for players to make the realisation that ESO is not Skyrim online.
I'm sure there may be some reasonable suggestions in the thread (as I've already admitted I've not read them) but what I don't understand is many gamers desire to change a game from what it is to another game they play. Just accept and embrace the differences. Otherwise we may as well all go and play PacMan
Because the changes to make the ESO more like the single player games have significantly improved the mmo and there are still plenty of other good ideas that they could use. Hence the thread of asking what else from the single player games that they could use.
That's part of why ZOS is even adding companions in the first place.3 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
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As for the rest. This is a different game to the other Elder Scrolls games, why does it have to feel the same?
That's what the developers promised, and is presumably what they strive for. You might also ask why bother tackling a franchise known for a very passionate fanbase, who prioritise lore and exploration in the first place? You could just make your own whatever MMO and make the same tropey trope mechanics as every other MMO out there. But then, of course, no one's gonna give a ***. The game was lifted to success by recruiting an already installed fanbase, hyping it for months before release with splash pages depicting nord warriors standing against the backdrop of snowy landscapes - they basically marketed it as Skyrim, but with your friends. Its no wonder that that crowd they benefited from is going to have opinions on the way the game develops.but what I don't understand is many gamers desire to change a game from what it is to another game they play
This is a forum where people discuss all kinds of thoughts about the direction of the game, and the developers actively encourage such talk - they don't live in a vacuum; it would be really bad for them if people weren't discussing their views, because the only feedback they'd then be getting is dropping subscriptions and abandonment. The developers themselves acknowledge they do get it wrong. This is an opportunity to discuss our views, our ideas on what could be better, what we're unhappy with. It shouldn't be hard to understand.Well I'm anti companions and see no need for them
But many are really excited about them. Don't get stuck in a fixed mindset about what an MMO is, how it must be played, and block your ears to any sort of discussion that brings the idea away from those rigid rules. The developers certainly don't subscribe to that notion - they said that it was never meant to be an MMO "in the traditional sense", and strives to prioritise other values beyond traditional, over-done MMOs have done. As a developer of such a franchise should.4 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭Another idea I had back in the day: wherever possible, instead of interacting with the game UI, you should be interacting with the game world. So for example, for the dungeon group finder, instead of opening a window and clicking buttons, you should be interacting with some kind of outfitter npc who puts together these expeditions.Edited by worrallj on February 11, 2021 3:17PM3 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've only read the headline as the rest means nothing to me.
Yes, nothing.
I have never played any of the other elder scrolls games, never, not once.
I have no interest in doing so.
As I scrolled down I saw something about first person and playing the game like that. I CANNOT play first person games.
Interestingly, I play all the Bethesda SP games (MW, Oblivion, Skyrim, FO3/NV/4) in first person, but this game exclusively in third. They just work differently.0 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have no problems with the game being based in the same world, I have no issues with the lore amd all the rest of it.
I haven't said anything against that.
If anything I'm the most open minded person on this thread as I have no Elder Scroll background.
All I have said is I do not understand why this came has to be made into the same thing as the single player games.
Just because I'm anti companion it doesn't mean I have set views about how an MMO must be played. I'm actually companion because I do not see or understand the need for them. There are things I cannot do in this game and a tanky companion may benefit me but I don't want that tanky companion unless it's a real person. If I can't have a real person I'll learn how to do something myself.
Yes others are excited about it. I am not.
But games change and I accept that, I may well just spend more and more time in PvP as they are not allowed in there.0 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭I have no problems with the game being based in the same world, I have no issues with the lore amd all the rest of it.
I haven't said anything against that.
If anything I'm the most open minded person on this thread as I have no Elder Scroll background.
All I have said is I do not understand why this came has to be made into the same thing as the single player games.
Just because I'm anti companion it doesn't mean I have set views about how an MMO must be played. I'm actually companion because I do not see or understand the need for them. There are things I cannot do in this game and a tanky companion may benefit me but I don't want that tanky companion unless it's a real person. If I can't have a real person I'll learn how to do something myself.
Yes others are excited about it. I am not.
But games change and I accept that, I may well just spend more and more time in PvP as they are not allowed in there.
If you have no TES background then you can't really understand what the OP is looking for. Many of us have a sense of wonder and nostalgia that we associate with those games, and we like it when eso evokes those same feelings. They're feelings associated with ambiance, immersion, and narratives as opposed to traditional mmo grindiness.5 -
Belegnole✭✭✭✭✭I have no problems with the game being based in the same world, I have no issues with the lore amd all the rest of it.
I haven't said anything against that.
If anything I'm the most open minded person on this thread as I have no Elder Scroll background.
All I have said is I do not understand why this came has to be made into the same thing as the single player games.
Just because I'm anti companion it doesn't mean I have set views about how an MMO must be played. I'm actually companion because I do not see or understand the need for them. There are things I cannot do in this game and a tanky companion may benefit me but I don't want that tanky companion unless it's a real person. If I can't have a real person I'll learn how to do something myself.
Yes others are excited about it. I am not.
But games change and I accept that, I may well just spend more and more time in PvP as they are not allowed in there.
If you have no TES background then you can't really understand what the OP is looking for. Many of us have a sense of wonder and nostalgia that we associate with those games, and we like it when eso evokes those same feelings. They're feelings associated with ambiance, immersion, and narratives as opposed to traditional mmo grindiness.
I've played the old games and have absolutely no nostalgic feelings towards them. If you need a sense of nostalgia for this game you would have to go play a different game. There's also the fact that things once thought fantastical oft become mundane with familiarity. So once you've played in a certain game world long enough it becomes normal.
Personally I've had more as inspiring moments in this game than the previous ones. But those were mostly years ago during beta, when everything was new.
As to how to make it more elder scrolls? You can't because it is elder scrolls...0 -
Nightowl_74✭✭✭I spent a lot of time arranging weapon and armor displays in my houses, in Oblivion and Skyrim, but as far as I've seen there aren't any interactive weapon or armor stands in ESO. That would be a nice feature, and (although I don't expect it to happen) it was a bit of a disappointment that bookcases/books don't work the way they did in Skyrim.
I think they should continue developing the guilds because, although brand-new quest lines are fun, it's the thieves guild, fighters guild, dark brotherhood, and mages guild, that really have an iconic Elder Scrolls feel. When those are completed the game loses just a bit of that connection, in my opinion.3 -
SgtPepperUK✭✭✭Interesting discussion
Some thoughts from me...
Alliance War - i don't really know the full ins and outs of what happened behind the scenes but I always recall Paul Sage leaving around the time they announced One Tamriel.
I suspect he was a big driver behind the Three Banners system and that somewhere, internally, there was regret about having this in place, hence why it has been somewhat walked back since.
Strongly get the feeling that if the team knew back then what they know now, they would have done this very differently.
@ealdwin puts forward an interesting idea about evolving the three way PvP system, I actually like that idea but I think it might be tricky to implement.
Guilds - Agree here we need to expand on this, totally agree with @Nightowl_74 about losing that little bit of connection with the guilds after completing them.
This is something easily solved imo. When we get new landmasses, have four or five new quests in that area become availble for each guild. Mix it up a bit by having some chained 'story' quests and some that are unconnected.
Imagine, after getting so far in the main story, if we'd ran into Quen in Solitude, or Hildegard and Kor in Markarth.
There is a lot of potential with this and possibilities are endless.
Overall - What feels like an ES game to one is different for what it feels like for another. TES3: Morrowind felt different to Oblivion and both felt different to Skyrim in many ways. I do feel, overall, ESO captures the atmosphere, the essence, of those three titles though, and I do prefer the writing in ESO over that of the last two titles, to the point that I am not all that hyped about ES6 and look forward more to them filling out ESO's vision of Tamriel.3 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭I want more magic.
I mean cmon - there was like 30 spells in conjuration school alone in Morrowind.
I want spellcraftig or at least ability to use magic without damn staff.
But i dont think any of this will happen.5 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SgtPepperUK wrote: »Interesting discussion
Some thoughts from me...
Alliance War - i don't really know the full ins and outs of what happened behind the scenes but I always recall Paul Sage leaving around the time they announced One Tamriel.
I suspect he was a big driver behind the Three Banners system and that somewhere, internally, there was regret about having this in place, hence why it has been somewhat walked back since.
Strongly get the feeling that if the team knew back then what they know now, they would have done this very differently.Massacre_Wurm wrote: »I want more magic.
I mean cmon - there was like 30 spells in conjuration school alone in Morrowind.
I want spellcraftig or at least ability to use magic without damn staff.
But i dont think any of this will happen.
I agree that if ZOS knew what they knew now that the game would be very different.
Think the engine would be different for sure.
I like the Alliance War and think that would still be there but I think our class system would be totally different.
The magic would still be different as the traditional schools aren’t widespread but I doubt we’d have Templars or Dragonknights templates.
I think that painted on armors wouldn’t be a thing, like many are.
And while I totally get that the class system is a dealbreaker or doesn’t feel right - for me it comes more down to environment design and enemy design.
Besides my suggestion for Overland combat, ESO has a Major Re-Skinning issue when it comes to enemies.
Draugr and Falmer being great examples, they’re all the same model but using a different “personality” set.
Which makes them all feel too much the same. Each of those should be a different animation rig1 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭Imo eso should be the multiplayer focused version of an elder scrolls game. Not a solo focused multiplayer game (Like wut lol). WIsh ZOs would put more time into making group content instead of trying to make the game for the solo players0
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Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭- Cutscenes
- Sense of urgency
- Better music design
- More atmospheric ambiance
- Less kawai fantasy material as it does not suit the game at all2 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭More like an Elder Scrolls game?
Easy, have a sneaky archer build be totally OP and have magick be less effective as you go up levels.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.1 -
Malthorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭It starts with exploration and music.
Exploration, the difference is self evident. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim had such incredible scope and scale. They contained almost as many mysteries and secrets to be found as you could ask for. The first time I entered a new area in those games I was filled with wonder as I looked to the unknown. What awesome thing was around the next corner? It rarely disappointed. ESO, after a few zones you get the feel of almost every other zone; flat and formulaic. The same number of delves, world bosses and dolmens(or the equivalent), skyshards etc.. I was hoping ZOS would have tried to expand the explorable area of new Chapter zones almost 7 years later. So much more could be done considering the $40 price tag, IMO.
The music in ESO is good. I have a lot of respect for the current composer. He has a different style style than I would’ve expected for an elder scrolls game.
Jeremy Soule’s style is iconic. His music is Elder Scrolls. The way he creates ambience, builds atmosphere and evokes emotion from the listener is next level. He utilizes melody and layers to create some of the most beautiful tracks I’ve ever heard. His music really elevates the overall player experience in the previous ES game. Would LOVE to see a return to this type of soundscape.3 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭On the other side of the coin, in addition to being a game set in the Elder Scrolls universe, it's also an MMORPG. So for many years prior to ESO, players who have been playing MMORPG's have developed an idea of what an MMORPG should feel like. An expectation.
For some of us, ESO is the only Elder Scrolls game, we've played so things such as the lore, the world, characters, stories, etc aren't really important factors to us as we don't really have those things on any sort of pedestal. But things like PVP, gear, skills, combat, crafting, economy, etc are things we have had on some form of pedestal for a while and still do.
So I don't really have any idea on what would make ESO a better Elder Scrolls game, but I have many ideas on what it would make ESO a better MMORPG.0 -
amapola76✭✭✭✭✭
✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I'd like to see more flexibility in quests depending on who your character is. My elf is very much a healer. She hates quests involving an injured NPC where she is sent on a scavenger hunt to find healing herbs or healing poultices. I wish, given her role, that those quests would give the option to actually heal the injured NPC if you are so spec'ed and capable.
I would love this, too. I would think that perhaps this could be handled the same ways as the Persuade and Intimidate guild skill options in conversations.1 -
amapola76✭✭✭✭✭
✭I only play ESO in the first person view and have never thought of playing it any other way.
I go back and forth. If I'm in town, or just generally wandering around, or even in fairly simple combat, I'm always in first person. But if I'm going to be in more challenging combat, I switch to third person view. It's a little disorienting to go back and forth, but it's the best method I've found. What I don't like is that whatever view I'm in when I log out on one character, that's the same view I'm in for the next one.1 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing ESO did better than the single player games was weapon-swapping.
I hated trying to hit enemies at point blank range with a bow ten times.
Here’s to hoping that if TES VI ever comes out that they will have that in the game.
PS5 NA1 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »On the other side of the coin, in addition to being a game set in the Elder Scrolls universe, it's also an MMORPG. So for many years prior to ESO, players who have been playing MMORPG's have developed an idea of what an MMORPG should feel like. An expectation.
For some of us, ESO is the only Elder Scrolls game, we've played so things such as the lore, the world, characters, stories, etc aren't really important factors to us as we don't really have those things on any sort of pedestal. But things like PVP, gear, skills, combat, crafting, economy, etc are things we have had on some form of pedestal for a while and still do.
So I don't really have any idea on what would make ESO a better Elder Scrolls game, but I have many ideas on what it would make ESO a better MMORPG.
Early on, ZOS said that their goal was to bring the MMO crowd and the traditional TES fans together. That's a huge challenge, though - because some of the core values of either camp compete directly; and the expectations are sometimes wildly different.
This sometimes causes rifts in the community. People coming into the game from the SPTs typically value immersion and exploration. For those people, flimsy plots or poor handling of the lore is just as unsatisfying as floaty combat or *** metas. Meanwhile those from an MMO background recognise efficient grind and competitiveness as core factors. Many of them have come from a long line of MMOs, or have been in circles of others who have, and are very well-versed, or even indoctrinated with how an MMO should be done, what works in an MMO, what is and is not acceptable ways for others to engage the game, etc. They sometimes find it very difficult to see outside that, even though ZOS themselves told us all it was never meant to be an MMO in the typical sense, presumably because a game that took on the TES IP needs to prioritise to some degree other values as well.
But the MMO voice has a lot of the sway with developers currently - previous notions of "play how you want' seems to have been abandoned by the developers, and is pretty much just a meme with the community. As the MMO crowd stripped every set and combination of numbers for the most broken combinations they could find, disseminated it to others, who then mandate its usage (because of the vast gap in performance it causes), only the most naive, fresh-out-of-Skyrim trash could believe you can play how you want. And even then, that value can only be held if they go the solo road, or play despite the mountains of *** they will cop.Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on February 18, 2021 1:05PM4 -
Snowstrider✭✭✭✭✭I think its too late to make ESO feel more like a TES game since for that to happen the game would need to be remade and I think its better for them to improve on the MMO aspects0 -
JMadFour✭✭✭✭✭At this point they’ve done about all they can do to get the “elder scrolls game” feel in this MMO.
They would have to create a completely different game from scratch, removing all the MMO elements. At which point I would probably stop playing.
What you want is Elder Scrolls 6.Edited by JMadFour on April 21, 2021 9:14PM1
