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UPDATE30 COMBAT PREVIEW - Your Thoughts?
BlakMarket
✭✭✭✭
ZOS_BrianWheeler
PvP & Combat Lead
Hey gang!
Today, we’d like to share some new features and updates coming your way in Update 30! In this Update, we’re focusing on some concerns regarding item set procs and continuing our Champion System improvements, as well as several fixes for server performance and general bugs/balance. You’ll be able to read the full details in next week’s PTS patch notes.
Proc Sets
The growing concerns over the “proc set meta” for the past few updates has not fallen on deaf ears. We understand the frustration of feeling required to run these types of sets and fighting against them in PVP. These sets are seen as “free” sources of damage, healing and survivability, all of which come with minimal tradeoffs. We want these proc choices to mean something, rather than just the de facto method of building a character without paying for it in some way.
With that stated, in Update 30 we are making all item sets that deal damage or heal scale with player stats. You will need to make a conscious build choice when looking at which item sets to include in your build, rather than simply equipping three proc sets for that aforementioned “free damage”. Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher. Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher. Other sets that fall outside of that functionality will likely scale with Max Health, as well as a handful of other unique ways. Full details about which sets scale with which stats will be displayed in the tooltips for your item sets.
The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats. In PVP, we expect lower efficacy from item set procs as builds for PVP typically tend to focus on several stats that will take away from the potential to deep dive into specializing into specific stats. This also means that if you opt to run a full build of proc sets, you’ll be trading off a large source of stats for your build and you’ll be limited to gaining them from passives, enchants, and consumables, significantly limiting your ability to build as you could before. It’s possible to get to the values of “proc sets” pre-U30 if you specialize your stats for it, as well as getting higher values than before if you go all in to building around their scaling, but we believe this will lead to a healthier balance of damage and healing versus the “free procs” you get now.
Champion System
In Update 29, we introduced the revamped Champion System and indicated we would build upon it in the future. With Update 30, we are continuing our dedication to this system by adding several new slotted stars for healing and support-focused builds. We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.
To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience. We’ve also added a new and final sub-constellation (each tree can have up to 3) in the Warfare tree focused on healing, offering new slottable stars that support the healing playstyle, and added a few old favorites from the original Champion System focused on heavy and light attack damage to offer some core damage bonuses for players using their basic attacks.
As always, you can also expect bug fixes and updates to existing item sets that you can read about in the PTS patch notes, along with many adjustments to AE abilities for better server performance. We hope you enjoy your time on the PTS and look forward to reading your feedback for Update 30 next week!
PvP & Combat Lead
Hey gang!
Today, we’d like to share some new features and updates coming your way in Update 30! In this Update, we’re focusing on some concerns regarding item set procs and continuing our Champion System improvements, as well as several fixes for server performance and general bugs/balance. You’ll be able to read the full details in next week’s PTS patch notes.
Proc Sets
The growing concerns over the “proc set meta” for the past few updates has not fallen on deaf ears. We understand the frustration of feeling required to run these types of sets and fighting against them in PVP. These sets are seen as “free” sources of damage, healing and survivability, all of which come with minimal tradeoffs. We want these proc choices to mean something, rather than just the de facto method of building a character without paying for it in some way.
With that stated, in Update 30 we are making all item sets that deal damage or heal scale with player stats. You will need to make a conscious build choice when looking at which item sets to include in your build, rather than simply equipping three proc sets for that aforementioned “free damage”. Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher. Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher. Other sets that fall outside of that functionality will likely scale with Max Health, as well as a handful of other unique ways. Full details about which sets scale with which stats will be displayed in the tooltips for your item sets.
The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats. In PVP, we expect lower efficacy from item set procs as builds for PVP typically tend to focus on several stats that will take away from the potential to deep dive into specializing into specific stats. This also means that if you opt to run a full build of proc sets, you’ll be trading off a large source of stats for your build and you’ll be limited to gaining them from passives, enchants, and consumables, significantly limiting your ability to build as you could before. It’s possible to get to the values of “proc sets” pre-U30 if you specialize your stats for it, as well as getting higher values than before if you go all in to building around their scaling, but we believe this will lead to a healthier balance of damage and healing versus the “free procs” you get now.
Champion System
In Update 29, we introduced the revamped Champion System and indicated we would build upon it in the future. With Update 30, we are continuing our dedication to this system by adding several new slotted stars for healing and support-focused builds. We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.
To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience. We’ve also added a new and final sub-constellation (each tree can have up to 3) in the Warfare tree focused on healing, offering new slottable stars that support the healing playstyle, and added a few old favorites from the original Champion System focused on heavy and light attack damage to offer some core damage bonuses for players using their basic attacks.
As always, you can also expect bug fixes and updates to existing item sets that you can read about in the PTS patch notes, along with many adjustments to AE abilities for better server performance. We hope you enjoy your time on the PTS and look forward to reading your feedback for Update 30 next week!
3
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Overall - good change.
It hits the toxic Health-stackers the hardest while still preserving proc sets as an option for squishier builds. My hope is that the scaling on damage/healing sets is aggressive though (e.g. not an Engulfing Flames-like 3000 Weapon/Spell Damage but rather something like 5k at minimum) and not something easily reachable without sacrificing HP and resists.
CP changes - no opinion since I don't play in CP.
Actually, that's a lie, I think it's a bad change but that's more from a PvE perspective. It's a blanket nerf to characters. The CP system remains boring and limiting in build options despite promises by developers to the contrary.4 -
Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭I had to sign in just for this 😁.
More Elder Stamina Online please...
"Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher." - so which character do you think would have higher damage with a proc set? A character wearing medium armor or light armor. But, but light armor has penetration, the damage would balance out. Tell me who wears 7 pieces of light armor without a shield and survives an out-of- stealth attack from a stamina nb - now with an additional 7% extra damage against light armor users. Stamina can wear 7 medium pieces, and the survivability is fine, just hit vigor and rolldodge, magicka cannot do that. Magicka has to compensate by wearing heavy armor pieces and invest in stamina to survive.
"Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher" - who needs healing sets when there are vigor and rally.
What a joke!
Most of my encounters in pvp are against stamina users. Keep it up! We can reach close to 100% stamina 2H user in no time..😪 ZOS you just don't get it!4 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭👍🏻 Now just curious what they do with the very OP Malacaths ring, if anything
PC EU
PvP only0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I had to sign in just for this 😁.
More Elder Stamina Online please...
"Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher." - so which character do you think would have higher damage with a proc set? A character wearing medium armor or light armor. But, but light armor has penetration, the damage would balance out. Tell me who wears 7 pieces of light armor without a shield and survives an out-of- stealth attack from a stamina nb - now with an additional 7% extra damage against light armor users. Stamina can wear 7 medium pieces, and the survivability is fine, just hit vigor and rolldodge, magicka cannot do that. Magicka has to compensate by wearing heavy armor pieces and invest in stamina to survive.
"Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher" - who needs healing sets when there are vigor and rally.
What a joke!
Most of my encounters in pvp are against stamina users. Keep it up! We can reach close to 100% stamina 2H user in no time..😪 ZOS you just don't get it!
I find it easier to survive on my 5 light wearing mag necro, than my 5 medium wearing stamplar.
Survivability can come from a lot of places not just your armor type.
In groups Magicka players also have a huge leg up over Stam due to cross healing.
The strongest Premade grps in high MMR bgs are almost all mag based for example.
I really wish people stopped with this elder stamina online meme already, outside of solo play, Magicka is literally stronger everywhere else.2 -
spacefracking✭✭✭✭It's alright by me as long as no one proc is stronger than an ability. VD proccing for 33k is absurd, the size of the heals from crimson etc etc etc
I outlined my thoughts on balance in this thread i started the other day: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/569578/why-procs-need-a-major-rework-before-re-enabling
(And give magblade some proc love
, last patch made us last place for pve dps, and pvp isn't much better 
. ) Edited by spacefracking on April 16, 2021 7:49AM1 -
Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭I had to sign in just for this 😁.
More Elder Stamina Online please...
"Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher." - so which character do you think would have higher damage with a proc set? A character wearing medium armor or light armor. But, but light armor has penetration, the damage would balance out. Tell me who wears 7 pieces of light armor without a shield and survives an out-of- stealth attack from a stamina nb - now with an additional 7% extra damage against light armor users. Stamina can wear 7 medium pieces, and the survivability is fine, just hit vigor and rolldodge, magicka cannot do that. Magicka has to compensate by wearing heavy armor pieces and invest in stamina to survive.
"Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher" - who needs healing sets when there are vigor and rally.
What a joke!
Most of my encounters in pvp are against stamina users. Keep it up! We can reach close to 100% stamina 2H user in no time..😪 ZOS you just don't get it!
I find it easier to survive on my 5 light wearing mag necro, than my 5 medium wearing stamplar.
Survivability can come from a lot of places not just your armor type.
In groups Magicka players also have a huge leg up over Stam due to cross healing.
The strongest Premade grps in high MMR bgs are almost all mag based for example.
I really wish people stopped with this elder stamina online meme already, outside of solo play, Magicka is literally stronger everywhere else.
Yes, you right. Outside of solo play, magicka is not in a bad spot because of cross healing, not damage, healing. However, why do I have to play a pay-to-win class or zerg to be in the same footing with stamina? Why ZOS has to continue to find ways to make stamina better at solo play, higher damage. If you don't see that procs set would be stronger with stamina users due to the fact that Weapon damage scales better with medium armor, I don't know what to tell you. And that's my point! I wish people would stop defending the inbalance between magicka and stamina. Resources scales better with magicka. How about making proc sets scale with the highest resource and not SD, WD. Would that be equitable?0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I had to sign in just for this 😁.
More Elder Stamina Online please...
"Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher." - so which character do you think would have higher damage with a proc set? A character wearing medium armor or light armor. But, but light armor has penetration, the damage would balance out. Tell me who wears 7 pieces of light armor without a shield and survives an out-of- stealth attack from a stamina nb - now with an additional 7% extra damage against light armor users. Stamina can wear 7 medium pieces, and the survivability is fine, just hit vigor and rolldodge, magicka cannot do that. Magicka has to compensate by wearing heavy armor pieces and invest in stamina to survive.
"Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher" - who needs healing sets when there are vigor and rally.
What a joke!
Most of my encounters in pvp are against stamina users. Keep it up! We can reach close to 100% stamina 2H user in no time..😪 ZOS you just don't get it!
I find it easier to survive on my 5 light wearing mag necro, than my 5 medium wearing stamplar.
Survivability can come from a lot of places not just your armor type.
In groups Magicka players also have a huge leg up over Stam due to cross healing.
The strongest Premade grps in high MMR bgs are almost all mag based for example.
I really wish people stopped with this elder stamina online meme already, outside of solo play, Magicka is literally stronger everywhere else.
Yes, you right. Outside of solo play, magicka is not in a bad spot because of cross healing, not damage, healing. However, why do I have to play a pay-to-win class or zerg to be in the same footing with stamina? Why ZOS has to continue to find ways to make stamina better at solo play, higher damage. If you don't see that procs set would be stronger with stamina users due to the fact that Weapon damage scales better with medium armor, I don't know what to tell you. And that's my point! I wish people would stop defending the inbalance between magicka and stamina. Resources scales better with magicka. How about making proc sets scale with the highest resource and not SD, WD. Would that be equitable?
I aggree that procs should scale with both stats not just wpn and spd.
And you don't have to play a necro or warden or zerg, when I say grps I mean 3-4 min, that's not zerging.
That being said, not everyone who plays Stam is using medium armor, even after the changes, heavy is still wildly popular.
And then you have for example magplar, which just works better with high spell damage.
Btw if they replaced the pen on light armor with spell damage, these forums would explode most likely. That being said I could easily see that happen.
And the important point, I wish people stopped wanting to be balanced around solo play, the vast majority of pvp in this game happens in groups or zergs.
The actual amount of people who play solo is very small compared to the actual pvp playerbase.
Content creators might give you a different idea, but the reality is still there.2 -
Mr_Gallows✭✭✭I had to sign in just for this 😁.
More Elder Stamina Online please...
"Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher." - so which character do you think would have higher damage with a proc set? A character wearing medium armor or light armor. But, but light armor has penetration, the damage would balance out. Tell me who wears 7 pieces of light armor without a shield and survives an out-of- stealth attack from a stamina nb - now with an additional 7% extra damage against light armor users. Stamina can wear 7 medium pieces, and the survivability is fine, just hit vigor and rolldodge, magicka cannot do that. Magicka has to compensate by wearing heavy armor pieces and invest in stamina to survive.
"Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher" - who needs healing sets when there are vigor and rally.
What a joke!
Most of my encounters in pvp are against stamina users. Keep it up! We can reach close to 100% stamina 2H user in no time..😪 ZOS you just don't get it!
I find it easier to survive on my 5 light wearing mag necro, than my 5 medium wearing stamplar.
Survivability can come from a lot of places not just your armor type.
In groups Magicka players also have a huge leg up over Stam due to cross healing.
The strongest Premade grps in high MMR bgs are almost all mag based for example.
I really wish people stopped with this elder stamina online meme already, outside of solo play, Magicka is literally stronger everywhere else.
Yes, you right. Outside of solo play, magicka is not in a bad spot because of cross healing, not damage, healing. However, why do I have to play a pay-to-win class or zerg to be in the same footing with stamina? Why ZOS has to continue to find ways to make stamina better at solo play, higher damage. If you don't see that procs set would be stronger with stamina users due to the fact that Weapon damage scales better with medium armor, I don't know what to tell you. And that's my point! I wish people would stop defending the inbalance between magicka and stamina. Resources scales better with magicka. How about making proc sets scale with the highest resource and not SD, WD. Would that be equitable?
I aggree that procs should scale with both stats not just wpn and spd.
And you don't have to play a necro or warden or zerg, when I say grps I mean 3-4 min, that's not zerging.
That being said, not everyone who plays Stam is using medium armor, even after the changes, heavy is still wildly popular.
And then you have for example magplar, which just works better with high spell damage.
Btw if they replaced the pen on light armor with spell damage, these forums would explode most likely. That being said I could easily see that happen.
And the important point, I wish people stopped wanting to be balanced around solo play, the vast majority of pvp in this game happens in groups or zergs.
The actual amount of people who play solo is very small compared to the actual pvp playerbase.
Content creators might give you a different idea, but the reality is still there.
I like the light armor penenetration bonus instead of spell damage to set it apart fron others and supporting the ability to do best damage against heavy armor.1 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't understand why they have to bring the game upside down every 3 months... I understand the dangling the carrot bit, it's an MMO after all, but combat team is just trolling at this point. For the cp change, it's going to gut stamine PVE dps completely, it was already not played this patch because groups didn't want to optimize for the pen just for a few peeps when they can reach it for mag without having to do alkosh, next patch stam is going to have half of what they couldn't reach anyway... I can't take them seriously anymore, and I don't know what the class reps are even doing.Edited by Jaimeh on April 16, 2021 9:10AM0 -
Mr_Gallows✭✭✭Bah these changes are the same sort of band aid fixes that barely manages to hold the game together. Not impressed with that.. on paper at least0
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hands0medevil✭✭✭✭✭We were supposed to receive changes that will allow zos to easly separate proc and nonproc sets. Even nonproc pvp modes were announced. Can't see how the upcoming changes fit this.
Btw, do you remeber they wanted 6 months of nonproc cyrodiil for this changes?
CP nerf aka combat changes is another episode of "go elsewhere our dear endgame players".
1 -
ZOS_ConnorGmodGreetings all,
After review we have closed this thread as there is another thread about this topic already. If you wish to continue this discussion you may do so on the other thread located here.1
This discussion has been closed.