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Please remove all proc sets from BG's

  • Chase0351
    Chase0351
    Qbiken wrote: »

    The problem with BG's is that ZOS is too lazy or unwilling to fix/implement:

    * A proper ranking system. Either rework or remove the current MMR system. It serves no purpose anyway other than making it miserable for the ones playing the most BG's. The more BG's I play the longer I've to wait for a game and the more likely I'm to fight the same 20 people in every game. What kind of PvP mode punishes the player for playing it?
    The current leaderboards for BG's are completely useless since they don't showcase skill or how good you/your team plays and why have a leaderboard when the placement doesn't matter at all?

    * Custom lobbies: Give people the ability to create custom lobbies where we can choose map and game mode. Obviously no rewards or anything associated with this but just something for the community that wanna organise premade fights without waiting 15+ min for a game.

    I think you're onto something here. Of course ZOS has their own idea of the direction that they want to go... Players have suggested for years to have arenas specifically created for dueling to support that community. That way if you're into that kind of thing you would know where to go in order to find it. But they haven't even acknowledged the idea really and it has been going around the community since at least 2015 if not sooner.

    I wish they invested as much effort into pvp as they do into their pve cash cow.
  • buzzclops
    buzzclops
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    Hmmmm procs are not very good right now in the current patch. At least not stacking 3-4 of them. The amount of healing stat builds have far outperform proc sets in team fights. The ppl i see still complaining about procs are the one trying to 1vx in battlegrounds not even playing objectives and die to a team with dedicatEd heals...
  • Canned_Apples
    Canned_Apples
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    buzzclops wrote: »
    dedicatEd heals...
    You're far more likely to win the lottery than end up in groups with dedicated heals.

    I tried a few BGs today and the vast majority of people were running proc sets, and the ones that weren't were melting to those that were.
    It reminded me why I stopped playing them back when Malacath was introduced and they buffed all proc sets.

    I don't know what the combat devs were thinking, but this meta wrecked BGs.
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    Chase0351 wrote: »
    Can we all at least agree that pvp should be based on player skill? If not then there's no point in continuing this discussion because we would be on different planets at that point. I think it would be important to define skill for the purpose of this post. Skill would be defined here as the player activating abilities to damage, heal, buff and manage resources, period. Any assistance in any of those elements of combat degrade the players skill level. It would be equivalent to activating the "handicap" setting in madden nfl or activating aim assist in call of duty.

    Note: Skill does not actually come from "theory crafting" since truth be told 90% of the player base are copying their build from someone else that they found on youtube. Let's just be upfront about that fact of life within ESO.

    Pvp is supposed to be competitive skill based gameplay. How is it competitive when some players are using "performance enhancing drugs", for lack of better words.

    Its not like wearing procsets dont have an opportunity cost...

    Most sets have a cooldown, for dot sets like venomous you can cleanse them and then it has an enormous cooldown where your 5pc set does nothing.
    If you wear crimson and someone light attacks you from ranged and your crimson goes off? 8 seconds your entire set is worthless.
    The 1k base wpd and spd went a long way this patch to make stats more appealing, proc sets can definetly be reigned in and balanced.
    buzzclops wrote: »
    dedicatEd heals...
    You're far more likely to win the lottery than end up in groups with dedicated heals.

    I tried a few BGs today and the vast majority of people were running proc sets, and the ones that weren't were melting to those that were.
    It reminded me why I stopped playing them back when Malacath was introduced and they buffed all proc sets.

    I don't know what the combat devs were thinking, but this meta wrecked BGs.

    I dunno, most people I know run hybrid stat/proc setups, some people still play full proc, but they're not as effective now.
    The worst offenders are probably zaan and vate destro, but things like venomous smite and the like aren't that big a deal.
    In high MMR Premade bgs the meta is still full procc, since you can have a dedicated healer and/or enough cross healing so you can get away with it.

    Damage is definetly out of whack tho, people are dropping like flies, at least in solo bgs.
    Premades, well that's a different game altogether.

  • buzzclops
    buzzclops
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    buzzclops wrote: »
    dedicatEd heals...
    You're far more likely to win the lottery than end up in groups with dedicated heals.

    I tried a few BGs today and the vast majority of people were running proc sets, and the ones that weren't were melting to those that were.
    It reminded me why I stopped playing them back when Malacath was introduced and they buffed all proc sets.

    I don't know what the combat devs were thinking, but this meta wrecked BGs.

    Dont need to win the lottery. Just bring a healer with you or play one yourself. Its a team based content after all. You just said yourself you dont play bgs all that much... i literally only play bgs in this game. 10+ per days when im on. I can assure you the latest patch is not like the procfest we had few weeks ago. It’s actually the best balance we had in years
    Edited by buzzclops on April 7, 2021 9:23AM
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    buzzclops wrote: »
    buzzclops wrote: »
    dedicatEd heals...
    You're far more likely to win the lottery than end up in groups with dedicated heals.

    I tried a few BGs today and the vast majority of people were running proc sets, and the ones that weren't were melting to those that were.
    It reminded me why I stopped playing them back when Malacath was introduced and they buffed all proc sets.

    I don't know what the combat devs were thinking, but this meta wrecked BGs.

    Dont need to win the lottery. Just bring a healer with you or play one yourself. Its a team based content after all. You just said yourself you dont play bgs all that much... i literally only play bgs in this game. 10+ per days when im on. I can assure you the latest patch is not like the procfest we had few weeks ago. It’s actually the best balance we had in years

    Yep, my experience exactly. Damage and healing proc are okay, but no longer overpowered.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Chase0351
    Chase0351
    buzzclops wrote: »
    Hmmmm procs are not very good right now in the current patch. At least not stacking 3-4 of them. The amount of healing stat builds have far outperform proc sets in team fights. The ppl i see still complaining about procs are the one trying to 1vx in battlegrounds not even playing objectives and die to a team with dedicatEd heals...

    It's actually a shame in this game that players get rewarded for avoiding combat and just running in a giant circle retaking objectives... A crying shame, honestly. It's supposed to be player vs player, yet a good chunk of the players in bg's get some sense of accomplishment by avoiding the player vs player part and zerging down those that don't. I can't help it if I'm in a solo que and my team is unorganized. Sure, sometimes I get a team where people understand to stick together without verbal communication. But mostly there's more chiefs than indians and everyone splits. It can't be helped in random content really.

    So, don't come into this discussion trying to side rail it with trolling tactics please. I see what you're doing. Everyone knows proc sets are a problem. If you like using them then just come out right and say so. But don't sit here and lie to the people. It's unbecoming and counter productive to what we're trying to do here. If you don't think proc sets are broken right now then you're either lying to yourself and everyone else or you don't pvp, period.
  • Chase0351
    Chase0351
    buzzclops wrote: »
    dedicatEd heals...
    You're far more likely to win the lottery than end up in groups with dedicated heals.

    I tried a few BGs today and the vast majority of people were running proc sets, and the ones that weren't were melting to those that were.
    It reminded me why I stopped playing them back when Malacath was introduced and they buffed all proc sets.

    I don't know what the combat devs were thinking, but this meta wrecked BGs.

    This is what is actually happening in bg's.
    buzzclops wrote: »
    i literally only play bgs in this game. 10+ per days when im on. I can assure you the latest patch is not like the procfest we had few weeks ago. It’s actually the best balance we had in years

    Obviously he's playing more BG's than you, or you're a proc set ab/user that's incognito atm... Sure, there's some games where most players are wearing stat sets and those are gg's. Then the next 5 are loaded with every cheese proc set in the game. I can play against them, but why are they allowed in competitive pvp? Give us cp to mitigate the damage then and it should even out. Stacking proc sets on top of dealing with poisons, ability dots, cc's and snares is a bit much. Pvp atm is basically procs, cc's, snares and dots... Where's the skill at?

    For reference my K/D ratio is typically 5/1 +/-. Imagine how much of a turn off pvp must be for players that finish a bg match at 0/14 k/d... I can tell who was using proc sets too on the scoreboard, you play this game long enough and it becomes obvious. I feel bad for those players that get violated like that by exploiters. Pvp should have some type of standardization to it, otherwise what's the incentive for new players to join in if their early experiences are getting nuked by some dungeon farmers armor...?
  • Chase0351
    Chase0351
    buzzclops wrote: »
    buzzclops wrote: »
    dedicatEd heals...
    You're far more likely to win the lottery than end up in groups with dedicated heals.

    I tried a few BGs today and the vast majority of people were running proc sets, and the ones that weren't were melting to those that were.
    It reminded me why I stopped playing them back when Malacath was introduced and they buffed all proc sets.

    I don't know what the combat devs were thinking, but this meta wrecked BGs.

    Dont need to win the lottery. Just bring a healer with you or play one yourself. Its a team based content after all. You just said yourself you dont play bgs all that much... i literally only play bgs in this game. 10+ per days when im on. I can assure you the latest patch is not like the procfest we had few weeks ago. It’s actually the best balance we had in years

    Yep, my experience exactly. Damage and healing proc are okay, but no longer overpowered.

    Dude, you're going to tell me you haven't ran into a warden wearing crimson & guardian with their little jelly fish out 1vXing 3-4 man team? If you play BG's as you say you do then you have to have come across that in this patch. Because they're still around. That's why their in bg's because they can't pull that crap in cryodiil atm. No offense, but either you guys don't play nearly as much as you say you do or you're not being honest, I'm sorry but I don't know how else to say it. Maybe you're experience is premades with a dedicated healer? Then sure, you would effectively be getting healed through proc set damage as if you have on a healing proc set yourself. Ok, that would line up with what you're saying. Random solo que, nah...

    With the right proc sets plus immovable pots almost any mediocre player can 1vX in this game. Tell me that's not broken... Basically, it creates a recipe for 10 secs of god mode each time you drink a pot. 10secs is plenty of time to burst down 2-4 players in bg's with the right build. The absence of proc sets would effectively end 1vX'ing and bring group play back into focus.
    Edited by Chase0351 on April 7, 2021 1:40PM
  • Rhaegar75
    Rhaegar75
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    Chase0351 wrote: »
    buzzclops wrote: »
    buzzclops wrote: »
    dedicatEd heals...
    You're far more likely to win the lottery than end up in groups with dedicated heals.

    I tried a few BGs today and the vast majority of people were running proc sets, and the ones that weren't were melting to those that were.
    It reminded me why I stopped playing them back when Malacath was introduced and they buffed all proc sets.

    I don't know what the combat devs were thinking, but this meta wrecked BGs.

    Dont need to win the lottery. Just bring a healer with you or play one yourself. Its a team based content after all. You just said yourself you dont play bgs all that much... i literally only play bgs in this game. 10+ per days when im on. I can assure you the latest patch is not like the procfest we had few weeks ago. It’s actually the best balance we had in years

    Yep, my experience exactly. Damage and healing proc are okay, but no longer overpowered.

    Dude, you're going to tell me you haven't ran into a warden wearing crimson & guardian with their little jelly fish out 1vXing 3-4 man team? If you play BG's as you say you do then you have to have come across that in this patch. Because they're still around. That's why their in bg's because they can't pull that crap in cryodiil atm. No offense, but either you guys don't play nearly as much as you say you do or you're not being honest, I'm sorry but I don't know how else to say it. Maybe you're experience is premades with a dedicated healer? Then sure, you would effectively be getting healed through proc set damage as if you have on a healing proc set yourself. Ok, that would line up with what you're saying. Random solo que, nah...

    With the right proc sets plus immovable pots almost any mediocre player can 1vX in this game. Tell me that's not broken... Basically, it creates a recipe for 10 secs of god mode each time you drink a pot. 10secs is plenty of time to burst down 2-4 players in bg's with the right build.

    I have to agree with you: I'm still encountering a lot of High Health Proc Wardens that can simply play half asleep....healing like a healer and dealing damage like a nighblade :D

    In solo casual I played in a BG where 2 groups (with decent players in) were literally wiped out by a 3rd group made of wardens...causal queue btw
  • Chase0351
    Chase0351
    Firstmep wrote: »
    In high MMR Premade bgs the meta is still full procc, since you can have a dedicated healer and/or enough cross healing so you can get away with it.

    Damage is definetly out of whack tho, people are dropping like flies, at least in solo bgs.
    Premades, well that's a different game altogether.

    What's that tell you about the actual skill cap in "high MMR" bg's? Reminds me of a dumpster... We might actually have some leaderboards and matchmaking ranking system that meant something if we had more standards in bg's and pvp in general. Really, the only place where proc's have any kind of setting would be open world pvp with the zergs and catapults. BG's are supposed to be the more competitive realm of pvp in eso. That's why they removed cp from bg's... Because cp is the other form of crutches in this game.
    Edited by Chase0351 on April 7, 2021 1:48PM
  • Chase0351
    Chase0351
    Rhaegar75 wrote: »
    Chase0351 wrote: »
    buzzclops wrote: »
    buzzclops wrote: »
    dedicatEd heals...
    You're far more likely to win the lottery than end up in groups with dedicated heals.

    I tried a few BGs today and the vast majority of people were running proc sets, and the ones that weren't were melting to those that were.
    It reminded me why I stopped playing them back when Malacath was introduced and they buffed all proc sets.

    I don't know what the combat devs were thinking, but this meta wrecked BGs.

    Dont need to win the lottery. Just bring a healer with you or play one yourself. Its a team based content after all. You just said yourself you dont play bgs all that much... i literally only play bgs in this game. 10+ per days when im on. I can assure you the latest patch is not like the procfest we had few weeks ago. It’s actually the best balance we had in years

    Yep, my experience exactly. Damage and healing proc are okay, but no longer overpowered.

    Dude, you're going to tell me you haven't ran into a warden wearing crimson & guardian with their little jelly fish out 1vXing 3-4 man team? If you play BG's as you say you do then you have to have come across that in this patch. Because they're still around. That's why their in bg's because they can't pull that crap in cryodiil atm. No offense, but either you guys don't play nearly as much as you say you do or you're not being honest, I'm sorry but I don't know how else to say it. Maybe you're experience is premades with a dedicated healer? Then sure, you would effectively be getting healed through proc set damage as if you have on a healing proc set yourself. Ok, that would line up with what you're saying. Random solo que, nah...

    With the right proc sets plus immovable pots almost any mediocre player can 1vX in this game. Tell me that's not broken... Basically, it creates a recipe for 10 secs of god mode each time you drink a pot. 10secs is plenty of time to burst down 2-4 players in bg's with the right build.

    I have to agree with you: I'm still encountering a lot of High Health Proc Wardens that can simply play half asleep....healing like a healer and dealing damage like a nighblade :D

    In solo casual I played in a BG where 2 groups (with decent players in) were literally wiped out by a 3rd group made of wardens...causal queue btw

    It's crazy how out of whack eso is and has been for a while. Warden & necro classes are pay 2 win basically and ZOS keeps them that way in order to sell these classes in the crown store. I still use the 4 original base game classes and they work fine. I'm not spending money on broken classes to get an advantage over the next player. They still have dungeons that don't even work properly and they're releasing new ones with the latest dlc. That tells you right there where their interests lie. Proc sets are just another form of pay 2 win since most people have eso plus, therefore gaining access to the dlc's and then spend time out of their life to farm these sets just to try to get any advantage over the next player. Then they toute it as "build diversity". Sure, whatever you gotta tell yourselves guys/gals. I guess it is about as bad as other players having to spend time out of their lives to farm mats or gold for immovable pots in this game to counter the ridiculous amount of cc's in this game. Combat is just absurd in eso at times.
  • Chase0351
    Chase0351
    Firstmep wrote: »
    If you wear crimson and someone light attacks you from ranged and your crimson goes off? 8 seconds your entire set is worthless.

    Here's an example that rarely happens, is the exception to the rule and is also taken out of context. Any player that went through the trouble to put a "health warden" crimson/guardian build together has at least half a brain to also engage within close distance. Please don't use erroneous examples to confuse the people. Thank you sir.
  • MurderMostFoul
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    Chase0351 wrote: »
    It's actually a shame in this game that players get rewarded for avoiding combat and just running in a giant circle retaking objectives... A crying shame, honestly. It's supposed to be player vs player, yet a good chunk of the players in bg's get some sense of accomplishment by avoiding the player vs player part and zerging down those that don't. I can't help it if I'm in a solo que and my team is unorganized. Sure, sometimes I get a team where people understand to stick together without verbal communication. But mostly there's more chiefs than indians and everyone splits. It can't be helped in random content really.

    This is one of the main reasons I want to be able to play deathmatch more often. Can't avoid PvP if that's the objective. With the other modes, it often pays to avoid other players. I hate it, but as someone who plays the objective, I'll often avoid a fight to cap a flag or something. I know I would have more fun fighting, but it wouldn't help my team win.
    Chase0351 wrote: »
    So, don't come into this discussion trying to side rail it with trolling tactics please. I see what you're doing. Everyone knows proc sets are a problem. If you like using them then just come out right and say so. But don't sit here and lie to the people. It's unbecoming and counter productive to what we're trying to do here. If you don't think proc sets are broken right now then you're either lying to yourself and everyone else or you don't pvp, period.

    Hey man, tone down the rhetoric. We all have different experiences, and those different perspectives will create disparate points of view. It's fine for everyone to come here and discuss whether or not, in their experience, proc damage and healing sets are still overpowered this patch. There's no universal truths regarding proc set performance this patch, just opinions based upon individual experience. The folks who disagree with you don't have hidden agendas.

    My experience: On my 6 stam toons, I run high weapon damage, medium armor. Huge vigors make it easy for me to heal through most dot procs. Rally and pots are there for burst healing. I also run well fitted with my medium armor, so certain projectile procs are often dodged. Also, three of my stam toons have access to a purge. And I play highly mobile, so if I get in the middle of an AOE proc mess, or someone tries to stack beams on me, I'm usually able to reposition and avoid the brunt of it.

    So for me, procs have not felt like much of an issue this patch. I respect the fact that your play style may result in a different experience. But the truth is, there is no absolute right or wrong about weather proc sets are overpowered, just various experiences. Where one errs, is claiming their experience is the universal truth.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Chase0351
    Chase0351
    This is one of the main reasons I want to be able to play deathmatch more often. Can't avoid PvP if that's the objective. With the other modes, it often pays to avoid other players. I hate it, but as someone who plays the objective, I'll often avoid a fight to cap a flag or something. I know I would have more fun fighting, but it wouldn't help my team win.

    I agree, they should have the option for players to be able to select which game mode they want to play. Of course, then you would end up with longer que's and some games being half filled. I think that DM would dominate and be the choice for most pvp'ers. Pve'ers would most likely choose objective since it's more zerg'esque and lines up more with their play styles. But they only come on to get the bonus xp from their daily random bg anyways so, oh well.
    Hey man, tone down the rhetoric. We all have different experiences, and those different perspectives will create disparate points of view. It's fine for everyone to come here and discuss whether or not, in their experience, proc damage and healing sets are still overpowered this patch. There's no universal truths regarding proc set performance this patch, just opinions based upon individual experience. The folks who disagree with you don't have hidden agendas.

    My experience: On my 6 stam toons, I run high weapon damage, medium armor. Huge vigors make it easy for me to heal through most dot procs. Rally and pots are there for burst healing. I also run well fitted with my medium armor, so certain projectile procs are often dodged. Also, three of my stam toons have access to a purge. And I play highly mobile, so if I get in the middle of an AOE proc mess, or someone tries to stack beams on me, I'm usually able to reposition and avoid the brunt of it.

    So for me, procs have not felt like much of an issue this patch. I respect the fact that your play style may result in a different experience. But the truth is, there is no absolute right or wrong about weather proc sets are overpowered, just various experiences. Where one errs, is claiming their experience is the universal truth.

    The thing is though, most people are not running perma dodge roll builds. I don't have a rhetoric either, just calling it as I see it. Players that clearly use and are in favor of proc sets to help boost their performance are coming into this discussion trying to downplay the severity their effectiveness in combat. I'd say there's an agenda there. For sure. Call me what you want but it's blatantly obvious just as proc sets are to those of use that don't rely on them.

    If they want to bring proc sets back to cyrodiil then by all means. There's nothing competitive about zergs and catapults anyways. BG's already has had cp removed to attempt to standardize the playing field. I think it's time to test out removing all proc sets from this competitive environment too. What's the worst that could happen? "Good players" turning into bad players? No more 1vX? Sounds like the battlefield would begin to even out after all. Give it a try ZOS!

    Lastly, most classes do not have access to an efficient purge ability. The one from the alliance skill lines is expensive in comparison something like extended ritual, so please, don't insult everyone's intelligence sir. Besides that, slotting a purge would break most builds. On all of my builds I can't swap any skills out. Every single one serves a specific purpose. If you have bar space with filler skills that you can flex in and out then good for you. Templars, for example, slot their purge as part of their build naturally.
    Edited by Chase0351 on April 7, 2021 2:34PM
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    Chase0351 wrote: »
    It's actually a shame in this game that players get rewarded for avoiding combat and just running in a giant circle retaking objectives... A crying shame, honestly. It's supposed to be player vs player, yet a good chunk of the players in bg's get some sense of accomplishment by avoiding the player vs player part and zerging down those that don't. I can't help it if I'm in a solo que and my team is unorganized. Sure, sometimes I get a team where people understand to stick together without verbal communication. But mostly there's more chiefs than indians and everyone splits. It can't be helped in random content really.

    So, don't come into this discussion trying to side rail it with trolling tactics please. I see what you're doing. Everyone knows proc sets are a problem. If you like using them then just come out right and say so. But don't sit here and lie to the people. It's unbecoming and counter productive to what we're trying to do here. If you don't think proc sets are broken right now then you're either lying to yourself and everyone else or you don't pvp, period.

    The fact that some game modes reward avoiding pvp is a colossal design failure from Zos, something I have complained about for years.

    As proc sets being a problem still, well not as much as last patch.

    I've been rekindling my magDK recently, and it works like a dream without dmg procs, ev+bsw+bloodspawn, the damage is definetly there and I don't feel like I need procs.
    I think the only problem procs rn are the worst offenders so to speak, vate/brp destro, vate 2h, zaan etc.
    Things like venomous smite syvarra, overwhelming just don't pack that much punch compared to what I can get from skills.
    Zaan and vate destro are defo an issue, if I can't break the beam I'm toast even on tanky builds.
    Zaan especially needs to be looked at, it's bis even in a lot of pve builds.
    Compare zaan and stone husk for example and the difference in dmg output is not even close, I've seen 5k zaan ticks, while stone husk is like 800-1k at best.

    Like I said before, make procs scale with stats like regular abilities do, and all the full proc monkey builds will go away.

    Overall tho, apart from high MMR premades, I don't find most procs to be an issue right now, but I'd still like the Stat scaling fix, to pre ent future problems.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Chase0351 wrote: »
    Hey man, tone down the rhetoric. We all have different experiences, and those different perspectives will create disparate points of view. It's fine for everyone to come here and discuss whether or not, in their experience, proc damage and healing sets are still overpowered this patch. There's no universal truths regarding proc set performance this patch, just opinions based upon individual experience. The folks who disagree with you don't have hidden agendas.

    My experience: On my 6 stam toons, I run high weapon damage, medium armor. Huge vigors make it easy for me to heal through most dot procs. Rally and pots are there for burst healing. I also run well fitted with my medium armor, so certain projectile procs are often dodged. Also, three of my stam toons have access to a purge. And I play highly mobile, so if I get in the middle of an AOE proc mess, or someone tries to stack beams on me, I'm usually able to reposition and avoid the brunt of it.

    So for me, procs have not felt like much of an issue this patch. I respect the fact that your play style may result in a different experience. But the truth is, there is no absolute right or wrong about weather proc sets are overpowered, just various experiences. Where one errs, is claiming their experience is the universal truth.

    Players that clearly use and are in favor of proc sets to help boost their performance are coming into this discussion trying to downplay the severity their effectiveness in combat. I'd say there's an agenda there. For sure. Call me what you want but it's blatantly obvious just as proc sets are to those of use that don't rely on them.

    ...

    Lastly, most classes do not have access to an efficient purge ability. The one from the alliance skill lines is expensive in comparison something like extended ritual, so please, don't insult everyone's intelligence sir. Besides that, slotting a purge would break most builds. On all of my builds I can't swap any skills out. Every single one serves a specific purpose. If you have bar space with filler skills that you can flex in and out then good for you. Templars, for example, slot their purge as part of their build naturally.

    Your passion on this issue is causing you to assume things about other players that aren't true.

    As I've stated before, I don't like damage or healing proc sets. I feel like they permit less skillful play. But they exist, I doubt they are going away, and I accept that. Given that context, I at least want them to be balanced. And in my experience, they are decently balanced right now, especially compared to last patch.

    I don't rely on proc sets. I have no agenda to keep them. Five of my characters don't use any damage or healing proc sets, and two of them use a couple old school proc damage monster sets. My zero proc toons do just as well as my ones who wear one. I can, and have, not worn damage proc monster sets on those other two characters and still do very well on them. Please stop assuming things about other players motivations.

    For me, some proc could use toning down, but they aren't ruining the experience in BGs like they could last patch. Proc damage is simply not the primary cause for my deaths very often. And when I encounter a player crutching on a proc healing set, they often don't have great damage. I'll try to burst them down, and if they're too tanky, I'll move on.

    Regarding purges, I don't know why you felt any insult to your intelligence. I was, again, just explaining my experience/perspective. I have purges on 4 of the 7 toons I BG with.

    Mag/Stamplar: Extended Ritual
    Stamden: Bull Netch
    Stamcro: Hexproof

    Another element of my experience in finding proc damage sets to be manageable this patch.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Rhaegar75
    Rhaegar75
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    High MMR BGs.....5 minutes and you get a headache just because of the Zaan/Vate beams popping whilst sorcs streaking are generating a semi strobo effect...then your screen will brighten up even more just as the merciless charge noob uses one click to activate 3 proc sets!!!

    I still play BGs but I have to admit I tend to log just to complete daily quests. If the atmosphere is not toxic then I may stay with my magplar.

    If they tuned down the usual suspects and the related combos it would be a lot better: don't get rid of procs!! Tune down the silly ones!
    Edited by Rhaegar75 on April 7, 2021 3:34PM
  • Chase0351
    Chase0351
    Rhaegar75 wrote: »
    High MMR BGs.....5 minutes and you get a headache just because of the Zaan/Vate beams popping whilst sorcs streaking are generating a semi strobo effect...then your screen will brighten up even more just as the merciless charge noob uses one click to activate 3 proc sets!!!

    I still play BGs but I have to admit I tend to log just to complete daily quests. If the atmosphere is not toxic then I may stay with my magplar

    Don't forget the mages fury spammer way in the back bunny hopping and shield stacking while you're getting nuked down, praying that they can steal a kill. Sounds like a blast! Seriously though, once you play other mmorpg's like bdo for example, that actually have skill based combat in the gameplay it makes you realize how poorly executed eso was, how clunky it is using abilities and how little skill is actually involved. That's why proc sets are such a major part of the game, they need them. Not just from a financial standpoint but also fundamentally speaking. And incidentally, they shot themselves in the foot regarding their server performance. There's too much going back to the server too often for it to keep up, obviously. I'm sure this will get edited by the forum moderators and labeled as baiting or some other arbitrary term they deemed fitting. Oh well.

    Side note: Why have all of the in game menus been so laggy ever since update 29?
  • Canned_Apples
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    Purge only delays the inevitable. As soon as you purge the procs, ten more are applied.
    I’ve had to use purge four times to get rid of debuffs/dots from procs only to have more applied two seconds later.
    Proc damage is out of control.

    You can’t even consider bull netch a purge outside the current cyrodiil. Necromancer and Templar purge can barely keep and they remove 2-5 per cast.
  • buzzclops
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    Chase0351 wrote: »
    This is one of the main reasons I want to be able to play deathmatch more often. Can't avoid PvP if that's the objective. With the other modes, it often pays to avoid other players. I hate it, but as someone who plays the objective, I'll often avoid a fight to cap a flag or something. I know I would have more fun fighting, but it wouldn't help my team win.

    I agree, they should have the option for players to be able to select which game mode they want to play. Of course, then you would end up with longer que's and some games being half filled. I think that DM would dominate and be the choice for most pvp'ers. Pve'ers would most likely choose objective since it's more zerg'esque and lines up more with their play styles. But they only come on to get the bonus xp from their daily random bg anyways so, oh well.
    Hey man, tone down the rhetoric. We all have different experiences, and those different perspectives will create disparate points of view. It's fine for everyone to come here and discuss whether or not, in their experience, proc damage and healing sets are still overpowered this patch. There's no universal truths regarding proc set performance this patch, just opinions based upon individual experience. The folks who disagree with you don't have hidden agendas.

    My experience: On my 6 stam toons, I run high weapon damage, medium armor. Huge vigors make it easy for me to heal through most dot procs. Rally and pots are there for burst healing. I also run well fitted with my medium armor, so certain projectile procs are often dodged. Also, three of my stam toons have access to a purge. And I play highly mobile, so if I get in the middle of an AOE proc mess, or someone tries to stack beams on me, I'm usually able to reposition and avoid the brunt of it.

    So for me, procs have not felt like much of an issue this patch. I respect the fact that your play style may result in a different experience. But the truth is, there is no absolute right or wrong about weather proc sets are overpowered, just various experiences. Where one errs, is claiming their experience is the universal truth.

    The thing is though, most people are not running perma dodge roll builds. I don't have a rhetoric either, just calling it as I see it. Players that clearly use and are in favor of proc sets to help boost their performance are coming into this discussion trying to downplay the severity their effectiveness in combat. I'd say there's an agenda there. For sure. Call me what you want but it's blatantly obvious just as proc sets are to those of use that don't rely on them.

    If they want to bring proc sets back to cyrodiil then by all means. There's nothing competitive about zergs and catapults anyways. BG's already has had cp removed to attempt to standardize the playing field. I think it's time to test out removing all proc sets from this competitive environment too. What's the worst that could happen? "Good players" turning into bad players? No more 1vX? Sounds like the battlefield would begin to even out after all. Give it a try ZOS!

    Lastly, most classes do not have access to an efficient purge ability. The one from the alliance skill lines is expensive in comparison something like extended ritual, so please, don't insult everyone's intelligence sir. Besides that, slotting a purge would break most builds. On all of my builds I can't swap any skills out. Every single one serves a specific purpose. If you have bar space with filler skills that you can flex in and out then good for you. Templars, for example, slot their purge as part of their build naturally.

    You are assuming stuff based on your own biases... i do not play any proc sets and never did. Saying that every1 who supports proc sets are doing so because they get carried by it is a really shallow argument. Personally i like to see procs because they open up different playstyles and way of having different damage “output” than classes toolkit. You can craft your damage the way you want be it front loaded or pressure oriented etc. Was it a problem last patch yeah, and its been a problem since malacath was released. But right now its not. If you know how to heal with big stats and position properly wich very few players do, Procs are no big deal. I play on ps4 na btw. From my understanding the metas and playstyles of players are quite different on the other platforms. So that might also be a reason for why i see things this way. When i watch videos of xbox and pc i see that we build kinda differently tbh
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    Chase0351 wrote: »
    As much as I want to play bgs, I can’t bring myself to playing it because of @ZOS_BrianWheeler ’s proc meta.
    There’s just no competing against malacath plus three proc set builds.

    As it stands, I can only play in cyrodiil but that can get really boring really fast.

    Have you played BGs this patch? Procs no longer reign supreme.

    All day, everyday. I prefer the quick battle encounters to open world since I'm not into sieges and catapults, even with proc sets banned currently.

    And yes, it is still super noticeable in BG's, even worse since we have no CP there to mitigate the ridiculous incoming damage nor the extra damage output to take down mr. engine guardian crimson warden guy, as he should be put to bed. Like I said a couple posts up, I have my highs and lows in game as we all should have. Every now and then we get a match with no noticeable proc abuse, but for the most part it's super apparent and it does take away from the integrity and experience of the game. If I get killed by a skilled player that clearly bested me, gg. If a clear and cut zergling wearing 4+ procs cheeses me it's no fun, imagine how new players must feel who haven't spent countless hours fighting game mechanics in pve dungeons to farm these sets. Btw, I'm on console, all of the proc zerglings have flocked to BG's on xbox NA. Not imperial city, not cyrodiil, but BG's.

    FWIW, I actually do like a lot of the changes they made this patch. From a core stand point it does feel more balanced regarding the armor and what not.

    Lol, I'm a high MMR Xbox NA BGer (solo queue). I've played every (stam) class this patch pretty extensively and Magplar (I also experimented with my new mag DK, but it went embarrassingly poorly). I don't run any proc damage or healing sets, except for a little Selenes on my stamplar and engine guardian on my magplar.

    In my experience, procs sets just haven't had the impact they used to. My burst is strong enough to overcome proc healing, and my heals are enough to overcome proc dots.

    Honestly, the only proc set that I've found to be challenging is caluurions. It can make a powerful burst even more deadly. At least that one doesn't pair with Malacath.

    If you're trying to play some kind of attrition build, then I could see how facing a proc heavy build would be problematic. But that's just not a very viable route this patch. Maybe if you are in group queue, things might be different there. If everyone is all balled up, and procs are just firing and left and right, that could get annoying. But in solo queue, where the action is a little more spread out, procs haven't been that big of a deal for me.

    You can say that again. Attrition builds are a good way to be miserable and get your butt kicked. But that's about it. Because that that's all they are going to accomplish. haha
    Edited by Jeremy on April 13, 2021 1:34PM
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