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The end game community in this game has always been toxic. It’s time for a culture change.
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carlos424✭✭✭✭✭I transferred from PC to PS5 about 3 months ago. On PC, I held almost all achievements in terms of trials (TTT, IR, GH, Godslayer)
I got a PS5 over the holidays, and hoped to enjoy the game a bit more casually.
I mainly run dungeons and run the occasional trial.
I am currently around CP 700.
The end game community has always been something else in ESO. I’ve been on both sides of it. But with the new CP cap it has now become drastically more elitist and toxic. This isnt meant to be a rant, just an observation with ESO. I could care less at this point for super end game content.
CP is such a grey area in terms of expertise. It’s a number that shows how long you have Gained XP. Doesn’t mean experience or knowledge or baseline mechanics of the game. I do agree that higher CP does lead to better DPS, and should be taken into fact for optimizing a raid group.
I had someone question me for a nBRP do grind saying “you are low CP, I don’t think you can do dps for a 4-5 min fast clear” ... made me chuckle when I heard this at cp 700.
You enter a dungeon the first thing people do is check everyone’s CP in the group (like pulling 90k+ is gonna be make or break.) and a vote to kick is initiated before one mob is even killed if someone is “low cp”. I got kicked from a vSCP pledge instantly because I was CP 500 at the time.
Just something I think will never change in ESO and it’s unfortunate for newer players or even mid tier CP players who pull high dps (perhaps better than some 1200+ CP) but get auto kicked because they don’t sink hours into the game to grind up to CP 1800++ with the new system.
PS: as I expressed, this post does not apply to the most difficult content in the game. For that, trial guilds exist with strict requirements which are valid.
As you well know, as a pc vet, people who have spent years playing, know all mechanics, etc., probably don’t want to struggle with a cp 500 in vscp. In 99/100 cases, that person doesnt know mechanics and will struggle. Is it fair to be auto-kicked. Probably not. Personally, I wouldve at least gone to the first boss fight and see how things went. Pugging dlc vet dungeons at cp 500 is probably not the best idea anyway. Probably best to join a guild and run dungeons. As for the nbrp grind. Ha ha. I guess they didnt want you to add an extra 15 seconds to the run. Thats just dumb.
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Eedat✭✭✭✭✭Is this how it is on console? I've never played on console but every time this type of stuff gets brought up it seems that the console playerbase is grossly more toxic than PC. ESO on PC has the least toxic community out of any MMO I've ever played. Every endgame PvE guild I've been in has been super helpful and willing to work with anyone2
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renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is this how it is on console? I've never played on console but every time this type of stuff gets brought up it seems that the console playerbase is grossly more toxic than PC. ESO on PC has the least toxic community out of any MMO I've ever played. Every endgame PvE guild I've been in has been super helpful and willing to work with anyone
No. Your endgame PC experience is the same as my PS endgame experience. OP is doing that thing people here on the forums often do which is extrapolate a bad experience or two and applying it to the entire community.8 -
Vermintide✭✭✭✭There can be a lot of misplaced elitism, but that's true of any game. Especially in MMOs.
My theory is that you get a lot of people who really invest a LOT of time and effort into games like these, as a form of escapism from what is often a very dull outside world. These people start to really value the status and prestige of being one of the "high end" players. Max CP, end-game gear, 100K DPS parses, all that stuff... It's a status thing, and it means kind of a lot to them. It's a giant gold chain that says "I'm the top dog in pretend internet wizard game."
I mean, that's what some people want out of a game like this. It's a power fantasy right? They want to be the hard-ass, legendary warrior of legend, undefeated and incorruptible, who adventures only with the toughest and most valiant fighters in the realm. It doesn't fit their fantasy to be carrying whelps and milk sops along with them.
Buuuuuut the thing is, outside that fantasy, it often doesn't take much to see that the skills and intellect behind the avatar often don't match up to the big CP number, or the hard to get title, or that exclusive skin. All the gear and no idea. At that point all you can do is hold your hands up and walk away, find someone else with a better attitude. Don't waste your time worrying about the idiots.
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Now I run with groups where the healer is a Werewolf and the DPS are throwing pies at each other as part of their rotation, and we all have a way better time goofing around than the supposed uber-optimizers ever did. .
Now THAT is a fun group!
Very cool!Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis2 -
WraithShadow13✭✭✭✭Recently, i was in a rando vet dungeon and after the first fight, the tank wanted to quit. No explanation beyond "we don't have the DPS". I was doing 75% of the dps there, so i was hoping it wasn't me. One of our dps people was afk through that fight.
"Okay"
Second fight and the tank just outright leaves. I'm still pulling 45-59% of the dps, so i have no clue what's going on. The second dps is suddenly gone, as well, not a word. The healer calls the tank a D--- and leaves as well but goes through the effort to tell me off and say that THAT run should be my last dungeon. I still have no clue what's going on, so prodding the healer a bit, he left because the tank and healer pulled 3% dps... and somehow that was enough to mean i shouldn't do vet mode and be told off by someone? I was still pulling the most DPS but 3%?
And therein lies my issue.
Granted, i'm only pulling 22-25k dps against the smaller mobs in the vet moongrave fane but i have never had either of those things being an issue. I was pulling 30% of the healing, but i'm not going to be a jerk to the healer and quit over that. But the thing is, the moment you reach level 50, you unlock vet mode and it does absolutely nothing to say or prep you for that. As the OP said, if you're not max CP (exaggerating), you're booted. Or you start getting harassed because you're not using a specific build with specific rotations with specific gear and food and potions being popped every 5 seconds. It's great that you unlock Veteran dungeons the instant you're 50 but damn, if the players in those dungeons don't punish you for it. Worse so, i don't want to just copy and paste a build. I don't want to be told rotations and let somebody else tell me how to play when. I'm here for fun and i would rather LEARN how to build better than just copy/paste and then crap on everyone like i'm the best thing since sliced bread.
It's just insane and how horrible the players can be, both in Vet dungeons and PVP specifically, people will actively avoid those entire areas of the game. The only time it seems like the devs care, is with the addition of companions, just so we don't have to deal with a lot of the other players in-game.
Don't get me wrong, there are also a number of amazing players that are more than generous with their time and resources, people willing to point out where you might better your build or give you decent food stacks and such. There ARE those people in-game but in my experience, they're way out-numbered by the toxic players.
It's frustrating, to say the least. More so, when you're TRYING to improve your build but in doing so, you have people frothing a the mouth because you're not playing the way they want you to.0 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WraithShadow13 wrote: »Recently, i was in a rando vet dungeon and after the first fight, the tank wanted to quit. No explanation beyond "we don't have the DPS". I was doing 75% of the dps there, so i was hoping it wasn't me. One of our dps people was afk through that fight.
"Okay"
Second fight and the tank just outright leaves. I'm still pulling 45-59% of the dps, so i have no clue what's going on. The second dps is suddenly gone, as well, not a word. The healer calls the tank a D--- and leaves as well but goes through the effort to tell me off and say that THAT run should be my last dungeon. I still have no clue what's going on, so prodding the healer a bit, he left because the tank and healer pulled 3% dps... and somehow that was enough to mean i shouldn't do vet mode and be told off by someone? I was still pulling the most DPS but 3%?
And therein lies my issue.
Granted, i'm only pulling 22-25k dps against the smaller mobs in the vet moongrave fane but i have never had either of those things being an issue. I was pulling 30% of the healing, but i'm not going to be a jerk to the healer and quit over that. But the thing is, the moment you reach level 50, you unlock vet mode and it does absolutely nothing to say or prep you for that. As the OP said, if you're not max CP (exaggerating), you're booted. Or you start getting harassed because you're not using a specific build with specific rotations with specific gear and food and potions being popped every 5 seconds. It's great that you unlock Veteran dungeons the instant you're 50 but damn, if the players in those dungeons don't punish you for it. Worse so, i don't want to just copy and paste a build. I don't want to be told rotations and let somebody else tell me how to play when. I'm here for fun and i would rather LEARN how to build better than just copy/paste and then crap on everyone like i'm the best thing since sliced bread.
It's just insane and how horrible the players can be, both in Vet dungeons and PVP specifically, people will actively avoid those entire areas of the game. The only time it seems like the devs care, is with the addition of companions, just so we don't have to deal with a lot of the other players in-game.
Don't get me wrong, there are also a number of amazing players that are more than generous with their time and resources, people willing to point out where you might better your build or give you decent food stacks and such. There ARE those people in-game but in my experience, they're way out-numbered by the toxic players.
It's frustrating, to say the least. More so, when you're TRYING to improve your build but in doing so, you have people frothing a the mouth because you're not playing the way they want you to.
If you're only pulling 25k on mobs then your single target must be 10k or less. I'm sorry but that's not enough for vet dlcs, esp for MGF. That's not being toxic, it's just fact. When I tank pug dungeons, I don't expect a speed run but not 2-3hour run either. I think it was reasonable for him to leave and he wasn't raging, just stated that not enough dps. Just look up some guides, improve your build and practice rotation and you'll have better experiences.13 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WraithShadow13 wrote: »Recently, i was in a rando vet dungeon and after the first fight, the tank wanted to quit. No explanation beyond "we don't have the DPS". I was doing 75% of the dps there, so i was hoping it wasn't me. One of our dps people was afk through that fight.
"Okay"
Second fight and the tank just outright leaves. I'm still pulling 45-59% of the dps, so i have no clue what's going on. The second dps is suddenly gone, as well, not a word. The healer calls the tank a D--- and leaves as well but goes through the effort to tell me off and say that THAT run should be my last dungeon. I still have no clue what's going on, so prodding the healer a bit, he left because the tank and healer pulled 3% dps... and somehow that was enough to mean i shouldn't do vet mode and be told off by someone? I was still pulling the most DPS but 3%?
And therein lies my issue.
Granted, i'm only pulling 22-25k dps against the smaller mobs in the vet moongrave fane but i have never had either of those things being an issue. I was pulling 30% of the healing, but i'm not going to be a jerk to the healer and quit over that. But the thing is, the moment you reach level 50, you unlock vet mode and it does absolutely nothing to say or prep you for that. As the OP said, if you're not max CP (exaggerating), you're booted. Or you start getting harassed because you're not using a specific build with specific rotations with specific gear and food and potions being popped every 5 seconds. It's great that you unlock Veteran dungeons the instant you're 50 but damn, if the players in those dungeons don't punish you for it. Worse so, i don't want to just copy and paste a build. I don't want to be told rotations and let somebody else tell me how to play when. I'm here for fun and i would rather LEARN how to build better than just copy/paste and then crap on everyone like i'm the best thing since sliced bread.
It's just insane and how horrible the players can be, both in Vet dungeons and PVP specifically, people will actively avoid those entire areas of the game. The only time it seems like the devs care, is with the addition of companions, just so we don't have to deal with a lot of the other players in-game.
Don't get me wrong, there are also a number of amazing players that are more than generous with their time and resources, people willing to point out where you might better your build or give you decent food stacks and such. There ARE those people in-game but in my experience, they're way out-numbered by the toxic players.
It's frustrating, to say the least. More so, when you're TRYING to improve your build but in doing so, you have people frothing a the mouth because you're not playing the way they want you to.
I assume your random was vet Moongrave Fane, yes? Unfortunately, that is one of the dungeons with harsher dps checks out there. The second boss, the big khajiit that summons blood orbs, gets a shield every once in a while that you need to break. If you cannot break that shield fast enough, you wipe, no getting around it (there is some very heavy damage going on during that stage. You can outheal it for a bit, but not for long). Your tank and healer can provide all the buffs, debuffs and heals they can, but if your dps don't have the numbers to break that shield, there's simply no getting around it. I'm not actually sure on hard dps numbers you need, with good groups it's broken very easily, it isn't an overly high number. Idk, something like 40k group dps I'd guess?
If you were pulling 20-25k on smaller mobs...well it does sound low but it's hard to say anything, because aoe dps depends on number of mobs, mechanics, tank stacking ads and your setup being good for aoe whereas on boss fights you rather need single target dps. I'd say that 20-25k single target per dps would've been enough to get you through. If you had that or not, I don't know. I'd say that perhaps you should do some dummy parsing just to know where you stand and how much merit the 'not enough dps' really holds. Or watch your single target dps on bosses that allow for it.
Had you run with me as tank, I'd get you there just so you could see it yourself (I also really don't like quitting), then after a few wipes either one of the dps would leave and possibly be replaced with a better one, or I would leave as there'd be no hope left.
Now that we have this down...this isn't and shouldn't be an excuse to be rude. I've been in groups who couldn't get past that boss, after a few tries I politely said 'sorry guys, we don't have the dps for this' and left. Sometimes I offer pointers if I see explicitly see people doing things extremely inefficient for their role but it's pretty rare these days because every now and then you're met with something like '**** off, I play how I want' and that's pretty discouraging. If asked for pointers, I will definitely answer though, I like explaining ESO stuff.0 -
Uvi_AUT✭✭✭✭✭If you think this community is Toxic, I´m guessing you dont have much experience in the world of online-gaming?
This community is one of the most mellow, friendly and easy-going in the whole landscape.
If you want Toxic, try playing League of Legends. Or any Arena-Shooter. I dont even wanna mention what the CoD-Community is like. It would blow your fuse.Edited by Uvi_AUT on April 4, 2021 9:32AMRegistered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....5 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭Ironically enough, the reason ZOS/players (back during Beta) didn't want a way to inspect another player's gear was in order to avoid the situation that happened in WoW (gear score); players with low gear score got the shaft.
Now we have the same situation in ESO anyway, because people look at CP instead.The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.2 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭XB1-NA player here. I’ve had in the last 2 nights new tanks in vMoS and vCT as pugs. They both asked up front for a rundown of mechs so we had some good teaching moments for mechs.
The vMoS guy had trouble holding the first boss separate and also following the group during the hunt phase of the last boss but he handled it well otherwise. A few wipes but otherwise smooth once the fake healer (who was also subpar dps) dropped out.
The guy tanking Castle Thorne was great TBH just needed mechs explained. No wipes, super solid pug group. It’s groups like that I enjoy playing the game for.
For those experiences however I have also seen some really toxic people as well. Had a PUG tank for vSCP before that couldn’t hold the first boss separated from one another and then complained we don’t know mechs and that out DPS sucked. After 2 wipes he rage quit, I grabbed a tank from my trials guild and we didn’t suffer a single death the rest of the way.
Or the time we had fake tank and heals in vLoM. Couldn’t get past tree boss but we knew that was inevitable once we started. Anyway we had some laughs, finally fake tank switched to real tank and we failed harder if that’s possible. Eventually we traded roles again and got someone on heals. Got past that and went 1T 3DPS the rest of the way. Nothing elitist going on but definitely a lesson in grinding out a dungeon with some top tier players that know how to perform more than one role.
In the end it’s all about communication. Nice when groups have it, wish more people would speak up though when playing.1 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think ESO has a wonderful community. Are there toxic jerks? Sure. But I think the ratio of good folk to jerks is better here than almost anywhere ever.
Want to experience a real toxic environment? Go play Dead by Daylight a little while.
I also can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen those people who are called elitist jerks, take literally hours of their time to teach/help a complete stranger.
And, having acknowledged that sincere jerks do exist, I think some of the problem is that the first time somebody tries to help a person, that help is seen as an insult resulting in immediate defensiveness.
I love to PUG dungeons. And the times I’ve seen a group try to help somebody VASTLY outnumbers the times I’ve seen a random kick based on CP.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I'm an old enough player to remember when level 10 players ended up in White Gold Tower and Imperial City Prison regularly. After that, I laugh at "elite" players kicking based on a glance at someone's level or CP. At least give them the chance to show their stuff at the first boss before you assume that players can't do the job.
Sometimes its even the first mob pull that reveals if they're capable or not. I've seen that many times.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
PS: as I expressed, this post does not apply to the most difficult content in the game. For that, trial guilds exist with strict requirements which are valid.
No, a lot of the time they are not valid. I've been in several trial guilds over the years and since I'm in one of these right now, I'll choose my words carefully, but there are a ton of gatekeeping around end game group content that isn't valid or necessary. And if you accept it is at face value, well, you're being a sucker. I'm sorry. Believe me, every one of these guilds bend their own rules for people they want in their core group or for friends, because they all know on some level that super strict req's aren't necessary for anything except for controlling who gets to do runs. I've know dozens of players who got into vet runs for skins and motif farming who were nowhere close to meeting the guild req's, only because they were friends of an officer or greased someone's palm one way or another.
There are some basic requirements for doing vet content, yes, but when people are asking you to have gear, a DPS parse and CP beyond what was available/doable than when that content came out--content that has actually been made easier by a number of changes over the years--it's not really about whether you can do the content. It's gatekeeping, and again, it's just to control who gets to do the content. And as someone who belongs to more than one marginalized group IRL, I know gatekeeping when I see it. But there has been end game gatekeeping in this game since the start. It's one of the major reason I left these game in the past, twice, and has been a real enthusiasm-drainer since I've come back. So players like me just have to grind our teeth and deal with it. But please don't pretend this is legit. It's not.
This. Soooo much this. Very well put.3 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unfortunately, there's nothing ZOS can do against elitism because if they do players can and will exploit it, like, I don't know, some way to skip queue timer after an insta-kick.
And this way of thinking is so... rooted in elitists brains after years playing ESO or even other games they won't change unless the community decides to do something against them like, I don't know, kicking them from PUG runs because they are high-level CP. That would be amusing — and would also affect me negatively — but I don't see this ever happening as low-levels often "leech" the experience (and manpower) of those they consider "better".
But I agree with you. Are CPs important? Definitely! But they don't necessarily dictate the course of a battle.
For example, months ago I met a low-CP tank (400ish by then). After carrying other groups, including one the tank was dead most of the times, I confess I almost left the group, willing to pay the queue time. Turns out this player was an amazing tank (for real!), capable of holding a good bunch of mobs, managing taunts, self-sustain and if needed, self-healing. I was truly impressed and befriended him by the end of the run.
Can he run veteran DLCs' dungeons? I don't know, unfortunately, I never had the opportunity but I'd bet he would able to give me my Fang Lair skin while ALL other tanks I've been grouped with always complain (and die) of beetles.
In short, elitists, don't be an arse because you were blessed with a good rig, good reflexes or even because you live near the servers. Humility doesn't hurt
Edited by magnusthorek on April 5, 2021 11:04AMI am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭magnusthorek wrote: »For example, months ago I met a low-CP tank (400ish by then). After carrying other groups, including one the tank was dead most of the times, I confess I almost left the group, willing to pay the queue time. Turns out this player was an amazing tank (for real!), capable of holding a good bunch of mobs, managing taunts, self-sustain and if needed, self-healing. I was truly impressed and befriended him by the end of the run.
Can he run veteran DLCs' dungeons? I don't know, unfortunately, I never had the opportunity but I'd bet he would able to give me my Fang Lair skin while ALL other tanks I've been grouped with always complain (and die) of beetles.
Long story short, don't be an arse because you were blessed with a good rig, good reflexes or even because you live near the servers. Humility doesn't hurt
CP is simply an indication of time spent in the game (on this platform). Nothing more, nothing less. My first MHK HM was with CP 300-ish tank and healer, both of whom were, as it turned out, wearing blue gear lol. They were console transfers though. They'd never done it before but they did know how to play and after a while, we actually got it. It's all the more amusing now that I've run it so many times and I know just how hard it is to tank and just how many tanks fail it miserably (including me, I'm terrible at tanking MHK HM
).
FL bugs are easy to dodge once you understand the timing (which is super weird and would throw me off a lot in my first run there, not used to such long attack tells), and after that it's just root -> kite time, they die quick enough. Now seeing the ghosts behind the boss' fat bone ass...that's another story.0 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭Is this how it is on console? I've never played on console but every time this type of stuff gets brought up it seems that the console playerbase is grossly more toxic than PC. ESO on PC has the least toxic community out of any MMO I've ever played. Every endgame PvE guild I've been in has been super helpful and willing to work with anyone
No. Your endgame PC experience is the same as my PS endgame experience. OP is doing that thing people here on the forums often do which is extrapolate a bad experience or two and applying it to the entire community.
Sounds about right. I mean I've never been in an ulta elite PvE guild so I cant vouch for those, but I've never experience anything even close to the levels of toxicity that others claim is normal. Almost everyone has been great and super helpful.4 -
C0RTEX4✭✭✭Bro we have more problems with the game being broken than worrying about toxic players, toxicity will be around forever, people will be people, just report/ignore them and move on...0 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭If you think this community is Toxic, I´m guessing you dont have much experience in the world of online-gaming?
This community is one of the most mellow, friendly and easy-going in the whole landscape.
If you want Toxic, try playing League of Legends. Or any Arena-Shooter. I dont even wanna mention what the CoD-Community is like. It would blow your fuse.
I play LoL and sometimes get drug into CoD. The toxicity is off the charts although CoD I can fix by having voice chat turned off by default. Communication is far more important in LoL so I have to deal with it there. ESO in comparison has the friendliest community out of any online game I've ever played. Even compared to other MMOs like BDO, ESO is a saint.0 -
MoreTune✭✭✭✭Is this how it is on console? I've never played on console but every time this type of stuff gets brought up it seems that the console playerbase is grossly more toxic than PC. ESO on PC has the least toxic community out of any MMO I've ever played. Every endgame PvE guild I've been in has been super helpful and willing to work with anyone
No. Your endgame PC experience is the same as my PS endgame experience. OP is doing that thing people here on the forums often do which is extrapolate a bad experience or two and applying it to the entire community.
Bad experience or 2?
I literally prefaced my post stating I have been in the end game community on PC for a long time. Meaning I have been around this community for a long time.
Transitioning to PlayStation now. I labeled two examples for my post. Those examples weren’t a “rage post” for bad experience or 2.
[snip] End game will always be elite. New CP cap makes it worse. If you haven’t experienced it either you aren’t end game or spend your time non PvE. it’s always been around and always will be. Personally doesn’t affect me, I don’t care about progression on PS. so labeling this post as a “bad experience extrapolation” is absurd. It’s simply meant to shed light.
Side note for everyone comparing ESO community to other toxic games. I will reiterate, as I already mentioned multiple times, this is for the end game PVE community. NOT the base community of the game. Which I do agree is very helpful and friendly.
[Edited for Rude Comments]
**I guess pointing out that his comment was irrelevant was edited for being rude. Not my intention. Thanks for the edit.Edited by MoreTune on April 4, 2021 10:44PM0 -
Psiion✭✭✭✭Greetings,
After removing and editing a few posts, we would like to remind everyone that the Forums are intended to be a place for civil and constructive discussion. While we always encourage sharing opinions, we ask that they remain respectful, and within the Forum's Community Rules.1 -
hands0medevil✭✭✭✭✭Not sure if this will solve your problem described in this thread, but zos seems to aim to push end game players away from ESO.0 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »
PS: as I expressed, this post does not apply to the most difficult content in the game. For that, trial guilds exist with strict requirements which are valid.
No, a lot of the time they are not valid. I've been in several trial guilds over the years and since I'm in one of these right now, I'll choose my words carefully, but there are a ton of gatekeeping around end game group content that isn't valid or necessary. And if you accept it is at face value, well, you're being a sucker. I'm sorry. Believe me, every one of these guilds bend their own rules for people they want in their core group or for friends, because they all know on some level that super strict req's aren't necessary for anything except for controlling who gets to do runs. I've know dozens of players who got into vet runs for skins and motif farming who were nowhere close to meeting the guild req's, only because they were friends of an officer or greased someone's palm one way or another.
There are some basic requirements for doing vet content, yes, but when people are asking you to have gear, a DPS parse and CP beyond what was available/doable than when that content came out--content that has actually been made easier by a number of changes over the years--it's not really about whether you can do the content. It's gatekeeping, and again, it's just to control who gets to do the content. And as someone who belongs to more than one marginalized group IRL, I know gatekeeping when I see it. But there has been end game gatekeeping in this game since the start. It's one of the major reason I left these game in the past, twice, and has been a real enthusiasm-drainer since I've come back. So players like me just have to grind our teeth and deal with it. But please don't pretend this is legit. It's not.
This. Soooo much this. Very well put.
Kind of - Sort of. I have DPS check.
We used to do no check open raid night plunder runs - All three craglorn vets (Because its craglorn). We would get people with literally no 5 set bonuses and 400+ CP. We would explaing to at least bring sets etc, but it was mostly just washed under the rug. Who cares? If the run goes all right, then it doesn't matter right?
Eventually we upped that open raid to include things like VSS and even VCR some nights. We added a DPS parse requirement. Immediately, and I mean Immediately the players who had not even a single build setup didn't bother. Not even bother to parse. Our requirement <ATM> for Every single vet including VCR/VSS on open raid night?
50K current patch. Yup. 50K to get into a VSS run that hasn't failed in a very very long time (1 hour rough clear time with clearing *ever* add pack and no skips). Pre-made portal team setup - Pre-made tanks (unless a player opts as tank then they are paired with an experienced tank). You can bring literally any gear setup, class setup, mag/stam, whatever. Want to DPS in Mad tinkerer, whatever its open raid night and if you can hit 50K (Thats 50K in whatever parse setup not what you bring so yes you can parse with siroria/MS then swap to meme build during run) your in. Good deal right?
Still those specific players just didn't care much, but others stepped in.4 -
Chaos2088✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alot of people need to be kinder to eachother. Alot of people in gaming think they need to act like that to be taken seriously...like get over yourselfs...who cares.@Chaos2088 PC EU Server | AD-PvP2 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've been a tank and had people complain at me for persistently standing in red - EXCEPT, I know from experience, that this particular "standing in red" in that particular dungeon is a case where the tank not only can, but should, for the benefit of keeping the mob in the same place so that the DDs can hit him with area effects and damage over time.
Had a healer complain that the only reason I was staying alive was because of him...Well, mate, that's EXACTLY what your job is? DDs stay alive by not standing in stupid. Tanks stand in stupid because that's their job. Healer's job is to keep the tank alive when he has to stand in stupid.
(Incidentally... He was the next one to die. I stayed alive without him. Because I knew *that* particular standing-in-stupid couldn't out-damage my leech.)
lolol the things I've witnessed in PUGs on my tank....It's a rough place to learn how to tank that's for sure.
-I had a guy calling me a fake tank because I "only" had 47k HP.
-I had a healer get mad at me when I started tanking because "I took too much damage" I guess throwing a heal out instead of damage was too much for him to deal with. I Healed myself throughout the boss fight and we got through it, first try, but he was still mad at me for whatever reason.
-I had DDs get mad at me because I couldn't hold more than 7 daedroth when I first started to tank BC2. HM requirements is 3...
-Final boss in Darkshade (The dwemer robot) got a mech where he shoots up in the air and the bullets land as AOE's on the ground. Healer got mad at me because I didn't tank the AOEs for him and he died in red. "Trash Tank".
The amount of idiotic stuff people throw at you sometimes...2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I've been a tank and had people complain at me for persistently standing in red - EXCEPT, I know from experience, that this particular "standing in red" in that particular dungeon is a case where the tank not only can, but should, for the benefit of keeping the mob in the same place so that the DDs can hit him with area effects and damage over time.
Had a healer complain that the only reason I was staying alive was because of him...Well, mate, that's EXACTLY what your job is? DDs stay alive by not standing in stupid. Tanks stand in stupid because that's their job. Healer's job is to keep the tank alive when he has to stand in stupid.
(Incidentally... He was the next one to die. I stayed alive without him. Because I knew *that* particular standing-in-stupid couldn't out-damage my leech.)
lolol the things I've witnessed in PUGs on my tank....It's a rough place to learn how to tank that's for sure.
-I had a guy calling me a fake tank because I "only" had 47k HP.
-I had a healer get mad at me when I started tanking because "I took too much damage" I guess throwing a heal out instead of damage was too much for him to deal with. I Healed myself throughout the boss fight and we got through it, first try, but he was still mad at me for whatever reason.
-I had DDs get mad at me because I couldn't hold more than 7 daedroth when I first started to tank BC2. HM requirements is 3...
-Final boss in Darkshade (The dwemer robot) got a mech where he shoots up in the air and the bullets land as AOE's on the ground. Healer got mad at me because I didn't tank the AOEs for him and he died in red. "Trash Tank".
The amount of idiotic stuff people throw at you sometimes...
I agree, people can be people, generally the ones that I saw most toxicity from, are mediocre players. Those at the top either go in for fun and don't expect anything from pugs, or just stick to premade, which happens most of the time.
I really don't understand people that go pug expecting anything, all my expectations flew of the window long ago, how many times did I stare at my pugs trying to parse on immune orb while 4 aurorans are slamming at me? God knows.0 -
cynicalbutterfly✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I've been a tank and had people complain at me for persistently standing in red - EXCEPT, I know from experience, that this particular "standing in red" in that particular dungeon is a case where the tank not only can, but should, for the benefit of keeping the mob in the same place so that the DDs can hit him with area effects and damage over time.
Had a healer complain that the only reason I was staying alive was because of him...Well, mate, that's EXACTLY what your job is? DDs stay alive by not standing in stupid. Tanks stand in stupid because that's their job. Healer's job is to keep the tank alive when he has to stand in stupid.
(Incidentally... He was the next one to die. I stayed alive without him. Because I knew *that* particular standing-in-stupid couldn't out-damage my leech.)
lolol the things I've witnessed in PUGs on my tank....It's a rough place to learn how to tank that's for sure.
-I had a guy calling me a fake tank because I "only" had 47k HP.
-I had a healer get mad at me when I started tanking because "I took too much damage" I guess throwing a heal out instead of damage was too much for him to deal with. I Healed myself throughout the boss fight and we got through it, first try, but he was still mad at me for whatever reason.
-I had DDs get mad at me because I couldn't hold more than 7 daedroth when I first started to tank BC2. HM requirements is 3...
-Final boss in Darkshade (The dwemer robot) got a mech where he shoots up in the air and the bullets land as AOE's on the ground. Healer got mad at me because I didn't tank the AOEs for him and he died in red. "Trash Tank".
The amount of idiotic stuff people throw at you sometimes...
One time I was in a normal Darkshades as a healer. I was the only one on the team that had obvious CP, the rest were below level 50. Which was cool. I really don't care who I get when I pug a dungeon. I'll keep whoever alive and deal damage as I can.
But anyway, overall these guys were pretty lousy as a team. The tank wasn't tanking and I mean it was so obvious. They were pulling mobs in every direction except the one they should. I wasn't complaining though. Not once did I complain. The one guy decided to voice his opinion on voice chat about half way through the dungeon. He straight up accused me (the necromancer healer) that I had an ice staff and that's why all the mobs were being pulled towards me. He then further started to say that necromancers made terrible healers to the others on voice chat. I never said a word and if he had bothered to pay one ounce of attention, he would've seen I had a restoration and lightning staff equipped.
We finished the dungeon but it took a little longer than any of my normal runs through it. I had half a mind to leave his butt in there to struggle but that wouldn't be fair to the others. Minus the trash talker, the other two seemed to get the hang of things by the end. By far though, it was one of the worst runs I ever had. And I've been in a lot of pug runs with people way below level 30. People can be stupid sometimes. No offense to anyone of course.0 -
xAarionx✭✭✭honestly, in terms of comunity, I have a good experience with ESO
Apart from usual toxic people that are expected now and then, I always found it to be very halpfull and patiant, specially on Cyrodill (Like, people there, at least when you run discord) really goes ahead to explain and teach you the dynamics of the fighting.
In dungeons it's not rare that i find some guy that actually knows everything about it and actually has no trouble in explaining everything in details, like secret bosses, best way for doing it, the cheesy way of passing through some mobs, and even bosses
Have some toxic people now and then, but, honestly, they're minority, just go block and move on with my life
If i have to say one thing that i find bad about ESO community is that it whines too much about stupid things... other than that, it's pretty good.
Edited by xAarionx on April 5, 2021 1:06AM3
