The end game community in this game has always been toxic. It’s time for a culture change.

Cadbury · April 2021

Vlad9425 wrote: »

This isn’t exclusive to ESO. The end game community for the majority of games is toxic and competitive.

I think alot of people think gamers in general are toxic. At least that's what some people say when I tell them about my hobbies.

"Oh...so you're one of those gamer types? Those people are so hateful and have violent tendencies XD"

...now I just lie and say I watch Netflix/YouTube in my spare time.

Hallothiel · April 2021

Seraphayel wrote: »

The meta-chasing and meta-obsessed community is often toxic. Not every endgame guild is following the meta trend and not every meta-chasing individual is endgame-proof.

This.^^

Some just follow the pattern. Which is that you have to join a trial guild to do trials ‘properly’, that you have to do a dps dummy hump to join (which I still don’t really get as what you do/use for this is very different from in an actual trial), and that there are optimised meta stuff you gotta do before even contemplating stepping in to anything vet.

But then I have been told that you can’t do vet trials in a social guild (which we have) and have seen people who can do amazing dummy humping that cannot seem to learn mechs & complain when they can’t just burn the boss.

(Best fun recently was a nSS run with all pet sorcs. Guildee threw in the summon dragon emote as well. Was fabulous chaos but done without wiping.)

That’s why I like the twins; you may have all the dps in the world but if you don’t get the mechs, you will die. Would prefer more trials to have mechs that can’t be overcome by dps. Might make things less toxic.

But of course people play for different reasons, and some are so insanely competitive that they sadly have to ‘win’ even in this game.😕

JTD · April 2021

The way I see it is the following.
The endgame community by which in this case i mean the people doing hardmode trials and trifecta's is extremely small in comparison to the rest of the game. Even if you compare to other (maybe bigger or smaller) mmo's. This means that the influx of new blood into this scene is low and that is not healthy for a group of players.

Combine this with the extreme jumps in difficulty and required dps/tanking/healing skills where one tiny mistake can ruin your run in case of a no death. The tensions in those groups are high and i can see how that leads to snapping at eachother.

Now the line where one group begins and the other ends is vague in ESO. The whole group section below that is filled with groups overcompensation for lack of skill (for a lack of better word) and since in ESO is a game where dps is a mechanic you can see what happens. Extremely high demands for joining and people are quick to blame.

Doesn't it all boils down to the ceiling being very high and the way towards that ceiling being not properly explained or guided.

MoreTune · April 2021

This. This is the whole point of my post. This is what needs to change.

BuildMan wrote: »

MoreTune wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

I'm going to speak from the other perspective. I have had many times running vet DLC dungeons with sub 300 CP players pulling most likely below 15k dps. Everyone is attempting but without decent numbers it just makes the margin of error very small, and then you run into the issue of assuming everyone is able to abide by the mechanics 100% of the time.

Simply put more dps = faster kill = less mechanics = less deaths/wipes

Now the blind kick approach is a bit aggressive but sometimes that's what you get unfortunately.

Im sorry you had a bad experience with end game. But just because groups have requirements doesn't mean they are elitist or toxic.

If you read my post you would understand that I stated that the hardest content in the game needs requirements.

I’m sorry, but I disagree. If you think anything other than vet trials require “requirements” then we have differing opinions. I got flawless conqueror at cp 166 and spirit slayer at cp 230 on PS. Was my toon “optimized”. Was my dps “up to par”.

My point being is dps can be accomplished at lower CP. 90k plus dps isn’t needed for anything other than vet trials. You can skip vet dlc dungeon mechanics with even 50k

If you read my post you would understand that I said groups are allowed to have requirements. If I must I will address it sentence by sentence.

"I had someone question me for a nBRP do grind saying “you are low CP, I don’t think you can do dps for a 4-5 min fast clear” ... made me chuckle when I heard this at cp 700."

His nBRP run, his rules, if he feels you aren't high enough get more CP.

"You enter a dungeon the first thing people do is check everyone’s CP in the group (like pulling 90k+ is gonna be make or break.) and a vote to kick is initiated before one mob is even killed if someone is “low cp”. I got kicked from a vSCP pledge instantly because I was CP 500 at the time."

Again, 3 other people voted that you were too low. Get more CP and try again.

You mention trials as an exemption from the topic at hand which is not even what I am debating.

My argument is simple any group for any content is allowed to have standards. If you don't like them then find an organized group who knows your previous PC experience and won't judge off the number alone. But for most of us, a low CP character indicated lack of game knowledge.

I do agree that blind kick is tough, but it happens.

“But for most of us, a low CP character indicated lack of game knowledge.”

Thanks for proving my point. This is what needs to change.

Magdalina · April 2021

Tbh, while this is sometimes (as someone who pugs vet dlc's all the time, I've actually only seen like...a very limited number of attempted kicks based on just CP, before any actual content. And I've never accepted those) true, there is also a whole lot of toxicity from the crowd that I guess isn't normally expected to have it - the 'casual' one. Or rather the 'hardcore casual' subtype of it that seems extremely prevalent in ESO. It's the type of people that queue into vet content with random builds (40k health as dps, maul as a healer, 19k health as a tank, etc), proceed to happily ignore all mechanics, pull all the things etc and rage at you if you try to explain to them how it's actually supposed to be done because you 'have no right to tell them how to play'.

I am exaggerating only slightly here - there's an astonishing amount of people that have no idea how to play the game, queue for content where this causes their groups time and wipes and become rude as hell to you if you try to give them pointers/flatout ignore you because they 'play how they want' or something. There're also quite a few on them on the forums - the vocal part of the playerbase that wants to see everything nerfed because they refuse to learn how to do it properly and also refuse to do it in normal mode where this is a non-issue (see recent nerfs to vet Frostvault and...what else was it that they nerfed? MHK?).

I guess my point here is that to imply that ESO consists of an op toxic top-end portion of the playerbase and angel-like innocent everyone else is misleading at best. Imo overall there's much more toxicity from the 'casual' playerbase, although I guess it depends on the type of content you prefer doing. Personally, I love pugging vet dlc's so there's that.

Oh, and for the matter - there's nothing wrong with being casual, which is why I put it in ' '. It's fine to not know how to play the game, it's fine to not even know what content you are or are not fit for at the current point. What isn't fine is partaking in group content with all this AND refusing to learn.

Mojmir · April 2021

Magdalina wrote: »

Tbh, while this is sometimes (as someone who pugs vet dlc's all the time, I've actually only seen like...a very limited number of attempted kicks based on just CP, before any actual content. And I've never accepted those) true, there is also a whole lot of toxicity from the crowd that I guess isn't normally expected to have it - the 'casual' one. Or rather the 'hardcore casual' subtype of it that seems extremely prevalent in ESO. It's the type of people that queue into vet content with random builds (40k health as dps, maul as a healer, 19k health as a tank, etc), proceed to happily ignore all mechanics, pull all the things etc and rage at you if you try to explain to them how it's actually supposed to be done because you 'have no right to tell them how to play'.

I am exaggerating only slightly here - there's an astonishing amount of people that have no idea how to play the game, queue for content where this causes their groups time and wipes and become rude as hell to you if you try to give them pointers/flatout ignore you because they 'play how they want' or something. There're also quite a few on them on the forums - the vocal part of the playerbase that wants to see everything nerfed because they refuse to learn how to do it properly and also refuse to do it in normal mode where this is a non-issue (see recent nerfs to vet Frostvault and...what else was it that they nerfed? MHK?).

I guess my point here is that to imply that ESO consists of an op toxic top-end portion of the playerbase and angel-like innocent everyone else is misleading at best. Imo overall there's much more toxicity from the 'casual' playerbase, although I guess it depends on the type of content you prefer doing. Personally, I love pugging vet dlc's so there's that.

Oh, and for the matter - there's nothing wrong with being casual, which is why I put it in ' '. It's fine to not know how to play the game, it's fine to not even know what content you are or are not fit for at the current point. What isn't fine is partaking in group content with all this AND refusing to learn.

this has been my experience

xaraan · April 2021

I've noticed, though exceptions exist, that most of the toxic people are in the group of players that want to think they are end game top tier players and desperately trying to keep the illusion up, moreso than the players that actually are top tier.

lolo_01b16_ESO · April 2021

In my experience most of the top players aren't toxic at all as long you are nice to them and don't insult them. Usually when I encounter players that you can discribe as toxic, it's those who think that they should belong to the endgame community, but actually are not yet good enough and fail to see their own mistakes.
As a new or average player it might be hard to see the difference between a player who pretends to be good and one that is actually good, but as a general rule: When someone gives you useless advice like "Don't die!", "Do more dps!" or "Get good!" instead of telling you something actually useful, they are most likely not the best players.

jle30303 · April 2021

I've been a tank and had people complain at me for persistently standing in red - EXCEPT, I know from experience, that this particular "standing in red" in that particular dungeon is a case where the tank not only can, but should, for the benefit of keeping the mob in the same place so that the DDs can hit him with area effects and damage over time.

Had a healer complain that the only reason I was staying alive was because of him...Well, mate, that's EXACTLY what your job is? DDs stay alive by not standing in stupid. Tanks stand in stupid because that's their job. Healer's job is to keep the tank alive when he has to stand in stupid.

(Incidentally... He was the next one to die. I stayed alive without him. Because I knew *that* particular standing-in-stupid couldn't out-damage my leech.)

Amottica · April 2021

I have been around for less than two months. Not even CP 300 yet on my main. I am also only in one guild. I do have to say they are very friendly. I went into Cyrodiil with them a few times and they suggested I join them in trials. When I said I was only 20 something their comment was for when I leveled.

They were very friendly and helpful each time I ran with them in PvP. Especially when my mount was very slow. They were also very welcoming and inclusive which I enjoyed seeing during my first weeks playing this game.

I realize some guilds are different than others and the leadership probably sets the tone, but there are good guilds out there, which is my point for making this post. Good luck with finding the right guild for you.

karekiz · April 2021

Lintashi wrote: »

I had groups wiping to Selene, Bogdan and even Longclaw due to low dps, ignoring adds and mechanics whatsoever. And they all were 300-500cp.

I mean to be fair every one of those encounters your meant to ignore adds. Tank can chain them in.

Selene - Tank can just chain - if pulled near exit area they just sort of funnel in.
Bogdan - The boss clears adds anyway at hp %. I was in a VERY low dps group and just told them focus the boss.
Longclaw - Just have tank move 4 cats away and range taunt the boss. Never every go into Melee with him taunted. If you range tank him he just stands there and is a parse dummy with no mechanics.

SidraWillowsky · April 2021

blxdes wrote: »

This is one of the reasons I launched a guild for older players. There is toxicity in the game, but I see none of it in our guild. Unfortunately pugs are always going to have people like that.

...you on PC/NA perchance?

Agenericname · April 2021

I've never seen a vote kick pass because of low CP. I've seen a few attempted, but never one actually pass. Its a vote that I wouldn't be inclined to vote for anyway, so it's unlikely that I'll ever see one pass unless Im kicked for it.

Vet DLCs are about all that Im willing to PUG. My only expectation is a clear. Ive been in groups that have gotten all or most of the components for a challenger in a single run, but thats never the expectation. For that, CP isnt that big of a deal. Even for some of those it isnt. The first time I got Mountain God I was the only player above 500CP (CP1.0).

I dont think its limited to a specific demographic of the game though. Several years ago I PUG'd a random vet as a tank. I landed in a group where both DDs were under 300, one was under 200. The healer and I were the only 2 near or over CP cap. The healer disconnected. A lot of people were having issues being disconnected upon entering a dungeon then.

One of the DDs iniated a kick. I declined and said we should give them a minute or two. They kicked me. A bit later one whispered me and said "you should've kicked." I whispered back "Im a tank, im already in another dungeon. Theyre a healer, they likely are too. Its you thats now waiting."

People can be weird sometimes.

ForzaRammer · April 2021

Just supply and demand, when I was a low level subpar tank, I quickly understood I was less replaceable than a mediocre dd.

SickleCider · April 2021

This attitude about the new CP system really has me rolling my eyes. People are overthinking the whole thing. It's only in very certain content (solo arenas) that I've at all felt a little bit gimped, and I've found ways around it.

It was really funny yesterday. I thought I'd pug vCoH2, because it was the pledge, and I just wondered if I could quickly pop a no-death. (I didn't have Voidstone Violet. Don't ask me why.
Just never got to it.) It was a mess. The one guy who kept running ahead and habitually dying was muttering to himself over the mic about the group's low CP. (I had 1111CP at that moment.)

Anyway I got an off-meta friend on Discord and asked if she wanted to two man it. She was sitting at about 850CP. We did it no problem in under twenty minutes.

So, yeah, we both have a pretty dye now.

Magdalina · April 2021

Versispellis wrote: »

This attitude about the new CP system really has me rolling my eyes. People are overthinking the whole thing. It's only in very certain content (solo arenas) that I've at all felt a little bit gimped, and I've found ways around it.

It was really funny yesterday. I thought I'd pug vCoH2, because it was the pledge, and I just wondered if I could quickly pop a no-death. (I didn't have Voidstone Violet. Don't ask me why.
Just never got to it.) It was a mess. The one guy who kept running ahead and habitually dying was muttering to himself over the mic about the group's low CP. (I had 1111CP at that moment.)

Anyway I got an off-meta friend on Discord and asked if she wanted to two man it. She was sitting at about 850CP. We did it no problem in under twenty minutes.

So, yeah, we both have a pretty dye now.

Lol. It's more funny given CoH came out before the whole CP system came around and (like all old dungeons) has never been scaled to match it. Back when they just introduced CP they gave us 10 CP for each vet level so we were CP 140 iirc...doesn't fare well against current system with all the changes it's endured but as a very, very rough guideline you could say CoH was made with CP 140 people in mind. Lol.

Rasoma · April 2021

This is why I do not partake in what people for some reason call endgame content.

MoreTune · April 2021

Nothing is going to change unfortunately, unless CP culture changes. Just wanted to shed some light on the issue.

A CP 1500 player who quested and does writs on 12 different toons daily and has never even completed a normal trial or vet dlc dungeon, will somehow have more respect in terms of gameplay than a CP 500 who probably out DPS’s them and knows all mechanics.

Nyladreas · April 2021

Cadbury wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

This isn’t exclusive to ESO. The end game community for the majority of games is toxic and competitive.

I think alot of people think gamers in general are toxic. At least that's what some people say when I tell them about my hobbies.

"Oh...so you're one of those gamer types? Those people are so hateful and have violent tendencies XD"

...now I just lie and say I watch Netflix/YouTube in my spare time.

I mean... I kinda agree with them. While I do play games myself, just about any other person I've met, who described themselves as a gamer, was ... How to say it ... Not very likeable and sociable person lol. But I Believe that also varies by culture. Could be different where you're from.

And no i don't mean they had anxiety or anything along the line. They were actually just angry weirdos, creeps and jerks.

Starlight_Whisper · April 2021

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

MoreTune wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

Is there a difference for you from PC to PS? Imo/e, PS has one of the most toxic communities in gaming. As someone asked above, if you're experiencing more on PS, I wouldn't be surprised.

It seems like a smaller end game community with a few reigning guilds.

That's the main problem on console. The endgame is tiny with only a few decent people, and a lot of the people at the top tend to hate each other for dumb reasons and it might trickle down here and there. [snip] but we don't have to deal with that meaning people who might not meet other people's quota for uptimes and stuff can kinda blend in with the other good players and not get constantly called out by those checking the logs. If the community was a lot bigger, the amount of rude people at the top would be diluted a bit.

[Edited to remove Naming and Shaming]

Same with PC.

Gulnagel · April 2021

Magdalina wrote: »

Tbh, while this is sometimes (as someone who pugs vet dlc's all the time, I've actually only seen like...a very limited number of attempted kicks based on just CP, before any actual content. And I've never accepted those) true, there is also a whole lot of toxicity from the crowd that I guess isn't normally expected to have it - the 'casual' one. Or rather the 'hardcore casual' subtype of it that seems extremely prevalent in ESO. It's the type of people that queue into vet content with random builds (40k health as dps, maul as a healer, 19k health as a tank, etc), proceed to happily ignore all mechanics, pull all the things etc and rage at you if you try to explain to them how it's actually supposed to be done because you 'have no right to tell them how to play'.

I am exaggerating only slightly here - there's an astonishing amount of people that have no idea how to play the game, queue for content where this causes their groups time and wipes and become rude as hell to you if you try to give them pointers/flatout ignore you because they 'play how they want' or something. There're also quite a few on them on the forums - the vocal part of the playerbase that wants to see everything nerfed because they refuse to learn how to do it properly and also refuse to do it in normal mode where this is a non-issue (see recent nerfs to vet Frostvault and...what else was it that they nerfed? MHK?).

I guess my point here is that to imply that ESO consists of an op toxic top-end portion of the playerbase and angel-like innocent everyone else is misleading at best. Imo overall there's much more toxicity from the 'casual' playerbase, although I guess it depends on the type of content you prefer doing. Personally, I love pugging vet dlc's so there's that.

Oh, and for the matter - there's nothing wrong with being casual, which is why I put it in ' '. It's fine to not know how to play the game, it's fine to not even know what content you are or are not fit for at the current point. What isn't fine is partaking in group content with all this AND refusing to learn.

This is so true, the real problem is trying to have an mmo with the "play how you want mentality". There are to many choices that are not valid, everything works in over land - 90% does not work in group content.

To have a good exoerience in random dungeons you need to have a system like Ffxiv where you are locked to a playstyle, locked to skills and locked into your class. When you choose a healer class thats all you can do.

But we can't have it both ways. To be able to have more "freedom" like in eso we have to also endure clueless randoms, and it's not their fault, eso is very complexed compared to Ffxiv. And I do say "freedom" because is it really freedom if you can play how you want but not really play the content you want. Since the play how you want is limited to overland.

mobicera · April 2021

I wonder how many of you calling the top toxic have actually seen the top.
From what I have seen the most toxic are the ones who aren't really ever going to make it to the top, so they belittle and troll others.
Lots of them on ps4 get a few hm clears and start talking down to people thinking they're all that.
They don't really seem to last.

Nah my experience the most toxic people I have ever encountered are the ones who just attack meta, look down on people who run organized groups and insult everyone who doesn't agree.
Or just wont accept that mag rules pve and get all butt hurt because the dont like the reality they are faced with.
These people are the ones I really try to avoid....

Just a little note every single ps4 godslayer or dawnbringer I have spoken to, chatted with have been absolutely wonderful people, kind helpful and friendly, pretty far from toxic actually.
But those that have attacked me for having hm vdlc trial clears have been what most would call casual, or those quite frankly jealous and unwilling to put in the work or effort themselves.

ForzaRammer · April 2021

mobicera wrote: »

I wonder how many of you calling the top toxic have actually seen the top.
From what I have seen the most toxic are the ones who aren't really ever going to make it to the top, so they belittle and troll others.
Lots of them on ps4 get a few hm clears and start talking down to people thinking they're all that.
They don't really seem to last.

Nah my experience the most toxic people I have ever encountered are the ones who just attack meta, look down on people who run organized groups and insult everyone who doesn't agree.
Or just wont accept that mag rules pve and get all butt hurt because the dont like the reality they are faced with.
These people are the ones I really try to avoid....

Just a little note every single ps4 godslayer or dawnbringer I have spoken to, chatted with have been absolutely wonderful people, kind helpful and friendly, pretty far from toxic actually.
But those that have attacked me for having hm vdlc trial clears have been what most would call casual, or those quite frankly jealous and unwilling to put in the work or effort themselves.

I agree.

To me the most toxic are the low output damage dealers who talk like they deserved to be carried for free. They got carried through one vss with their 15k dps and think they are some big shot.

They sometimes hate pm me for the entire dungeon after i kick them. The lowest are the people block me and keep sending hate pm after.

Iarao · April 2021

MoreTune wrote: »

I transferred from PC to PS5 about 3 months ago. On PC, I held almost all achievements in terms of trials (TTT, IR, GH, Godslayer)
I got a PS5 over the holidays, and hoped to enjoy the game a bit more casually.
I mainly run dungeons and run the occasional trial.

I am currently around CP 700.

The end game community has always been something else in ESO. I’ve been on both sides of it. But with the new CP cap it has now become drastically more elitist and toxic. This isnt meant to be a rant, just an observation with ESO. I could care less at this point for super end game content.

CP is such a grey area in terms of expertise. It’s a number that shows how long you have Gained XP. Doesn’t mean experience or knowledge or baseline mechanics of the game. I do agree that higher CP does lead to better DPS, and should be taken into fact for optimizing a raid group.

I had someone question me for a nBRP do grind saying “you are low CP, I don’t think you can do dps for a 4-5 min fast clear” ... made me chuckle when I heard this at cp 700.

You enter a dungeon the first thing people do is check everyone’s CP in the group (like pulling 90k+ is gonna be make or break.) and a vote to kick is initiated before one mob is even killed if someone is “low cp”. I got kicked from a vSCP pledge instantly because I was CP 500 at the time.

Just something I think will never change in ESO and it’s unfortunate for newer players or even mid tier CP players who pull high dps (perhaps better than some 1200+ CP) but get auto kicked because they don’t sink hours into the game to grind up to CP 1800++ with the new system.

PS: as I expressed, this post does not apply to the most difficult content in the game. For that, trial guilds exist with strict requirements which are valid.

this is what happens when they are chasing cheese and leaderboard scores. bah!

Kurat · April 2021

The funny thing is that most of these toxic players are not that good themselves. They seem to be insecure or something that's why they kick low cp players. Good players can easily solo dps any dungeon.

cynicalbutterfly · April 2021

I know exactly what you're talking about. I play on PS4 (soon to be PS5). There is a certain percentage of players that are hardcore who think they're gods based on their DPS numbers. Welp you ain't.

I once got kicked for seemingly no reason on a normal Falkreath Hold at CP 400 (give or take a few #s). To me, we were doing just fine. Burnt down the first two bosses in about a minute each. Next thing I know, I get kicked. I assume, I just wasn't up to someone's 'standards'. Well I got news for them. Even at that level, I had done a few vet dungeons (one of which was a Falkreath Hold) and none of those people felt the need to kick me. After such an experience though, I doubted myself and my character's abilities. Switched to healing instead of dps when I did dungeons. Recently though, I switched back and went full time dps. Currently CP 700 and haven't been kicked once. Even if I did get kicked, I'd just que again lol

Doesn't matter what CP you are or what damage numbers you pull off. What matters is whether or not you can do the dungeon. Can you finish? Sure can. Might take a little longer than a super powered team but at the end of the day, everyone gets their prizes. If the hardcores got a problem with taking a little longer, then they need to stop using the que and look for a group in zone that's up to their standards.

oddbasket · April 2021

Game's easier now with cp2.0, the ones who've figured it out are steamrolling dungeons and getting annoyed with those who haven't for slowing them down. This raised cp has it's downside.

zaria · April 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm an old enough player to remember when level 10 players ended up in White Gold Tower and Imperial City Prison regularly. After that, I laugh at "elite" players kicking based on a glance at someone's level or CP. At least give them the chance to show their stuff at the first boss before you assume that players can't do the job.

Yes it was an horrible bug in the first place.
Call it an bug as an lvl 10 could get say 4 easy standard dungeons and the dlc ones.
Remember on of my builds back then being level 15 and got ICP, please don't kick me, after doing 70% dps on first trash I felt safe

Real tank and healer who spent to much time on the resto staff and considered asking for an vote kick on other DD.
However an new player could not pull off stuff like this and run into some runs who did not work like an low cp group in scalecaller, one was 48 something, one below cp160 and one a bit above.
Real tank and both DD had some rotation and bar swap but it did not work out, I was farming Jorvuld’s Guidance and could only use drops from one of them, so we just re queued for another random normal, not that I needed but they was an cool group.

jssriot · April 2021

MoreTune wrote: »

PS: as I expressed, this post does not apply to the most difficult content in the game. For that, trial guilds exist with strict requirements which are valid.

No, a lot of the time they are not valid. I've been in several trial guilds over the years and since I'm in one of these right now, I'll choose my words carefully, but there are a ton of gatekeeping around end game group content that isn't valid or necessary. And if you accept it is at face value, well, you're being a sucker. I'm sorry. Believe me, every one of these guilds bend their own rules for people they want in their core group or for friends, because they all know on some level that super strict req's aren't necessary for anything except for controlling who gets to do runs. I've know dozens of players who got into vet runs for skins and motif farming who were nowhere close to meeting the guild req's, only because they were friends of an officer or greased someone's palm one way or another.

There are some basic requirements for doing vet content, yes, but when people are asking you to have gear, a DPS parse and CP beyond what was available/doable than when that content came out--content that has actually been made easier by a number of changes over the years--it's not really about whether you can do the content. It's gatekeeping, and again, it's just to control who gets to do the content. And as someone who belongs to more than one marginalized group IRL, I know gatekeeping when I see it. But there has been end game gatekeeping in this game since the start. It's one of the major reason I left these game in the past, twice, and has been a real enthusiasm-drainer since I've come back. So players like me just have to grind our teeth and deal with it. But please don't pretend this is legit. It's not.

MoreTune · April 2021

jssriot wrote: »

MoreTune wrote: »

PS: as I expressed, this post does not apply to the most difficult content in the game. For that, trial guilds exist with strict requirements which are valid.

No, a lot of the time they are not valid. I've been in several trial guilds over the years and since I'm in one of these right now, I'll choose my words carefully, but there are a ton of gatekeeping around end game group content that isn't valid or necessary. And if you accept it is at face value, well, you're being a sucker. I'm sorry. Believe me, every one of these guilds bend their own rules for people they want in their core group or for friends, because they all know on some level that super strict req's aren't necessary for anything except for controlling who gets to do runs. I've know dozens of players who got into vet runs for skins and motif farming who were nowhere close to meeting the guild req's, only because they were friends of an officer or greased someone's palm one way or another.

There are some basic requirements for doing vet content, yes, but when people are asking you to have gear, a DPS parse and CP beyond what was available/doable than when that content came out--content that has actually been made easier by a number of changes over the years--it's not really about whether you can do the content. It's gatekeeping, and again, it's just to control who gets to do the content. And as someone who belongs to more than one marginalized group IRL, I know gatekeeping when I see it. But there has been end game gatekeeping in this game since the start. It's one of the major reason I left these game in the past, twice, and has been a real enthusiasm-drainer since I've come back. So players like me just have to grind our teeth and deal with it. But please don't pretend this is legit. It's not.

You have made some good points. People even pay for carry runs to get skins lol. And at that point having a skin and having a decently high cp makes you look like you are a god. But in reality you get carried. Very easy to pull off skin carries nowadays.

It’s just always been funny to be. Even when I was completely immersed in end game trifecta vet trials.