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Proposition: Disable proc-sets in Dungeons and Trials
Cyrdemaceb17_ESO
✭✭✭
I know, the title is a bit provocative, but please let me explain.
Right now the proc sets are disabled in Cyrodiil and the extremly different quality of class skills is made visible, so balancing classes can be planned better now.
Since balancing classes for PvP also affects PvE it would only be logical to de-activate the proc sets for a short duration in PvE areas as well. Otherwise ZOS would not have enough data to work with and make the class balancing fair across the board. Sets should always augment the classes not define them.
And they should start this test before Blackwood hits live servers, so nobody has to wait to test the new sets in the new dungeons and trials.
Therefore I suggest a brief period for disabling the proc-sets in PvE context like they did in Cyrodiil. (not the 4-month deactivation ofc)
Right now the proc sets are disabled in Cyrodiil and the extremly different quality of class skills is made visible, so balancing classes can be planned better now.
Since balancing classes for PvP also affects PvE it would only be logical to de-activate the proc sets for a short duration in PvE areas as well. Otherwise ZOS would not have enough data to work with and make the class balancing fair across the board. Sets should always augment the classes not define them.
And they should start this test before Blackwood hits live servers, so nobody has to wait to test the new sets in the new dungeons and trials.
Therefore I suggest a brief period for disabling the proc-sets in PvE context like they did in Cyrodiil. (not the 4-month deactivation ofc)
Proposition: Disable proc-sets in Dungeons and Trials 44 votes
YES, disabling proc-sets for a brief time is a good idea.
4%
2 votes
NO, absolutly not!
90%
40 votes
Neither (please with explanation)
4%
2 votes
0
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO, absolutly not!Either you're joking or you don't understand how the balance in pve differs from that of pvp.
Taking proc sets away from players and their opponents in pvp is balanced, though whether one likes that or not is up for debate.
Removing proc sets from players in pve and leaving the dungeons, mobs and bosses the same is game breaking for that environment.9 -
Cyrdemaceb17_ESO✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »Either you're joking or you don't understand how the balance in pve differs from that of pvp.
Taking proc sets away from players and their opponents in pvp is balanced, though whether one likes that or not is up for debate.
Removing proc sets from players in pve and leaving the dungeons, mobs and bosses the same is game breaking for that environment.
I do understand balance in PvE. My point is: Balancing Class skills in PvP WILL have an impact on PvE enviroments too.
Right now there is a clear hirarchy in PvE which classes are top tier and which are not. Unless those class skills can be tested without proc sets in their PvE enviroment, the expected changes from PvP might have very different effect on PvE. Because the fights here are a very different ballgame.
Again, it is just a proposition open to discussion, not a demand.Edited by Cyrdemaceb17_ESO on March 26, 2021 7:19AM0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In PVE the sets are usually quite similar across different classes so the power difference comes from class skills and passives. I do agree that some class skills or passives need a buff to bring lower dps classes closer to the top dps classes. ESO has always had the challenge of balancing PVE and PVP simultaneously which doesnt make things easy.
PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
hands0medevil✭✭✭✭✭NO, absolutly not!"provocative" threads like this already led us to the current situation in pvp. Remember how many players were surprised when they discovered that malacath, vate inferno staff, zaan, crimson are not the only proc sets? How surprised they were about the fact that almost all sets were disabled? Please, be careful what are you wishing for here on the forum:)
Disabling procs in PVE would be a bye bye message for many players. I can't stand the fact that Cyrodiil on live server serves as beta test playground 7 years after game release. I can't justify same thing happening to the pve. We have PTS server for such things and if there are not enough players on PTS for any test, well ZoS, be creative. Everything will be better than making experiments on the live server. Why can't we have rewards on the live server for participation in the PTS tests if they are so important - for example 1 day of extra eso plus day for each day/few days spent on PTS during test event?3 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Neither (please with explanation)It would only be a semi good idea if devs actually we're interested in balancing classes for pve, where it's not really all about how class performs in a vacuum.
The other thing is that people don't usually mindlessly go into pvp so such a tests are no surprise, but as for pve 90% of population never were on forums and would be just puzzled, plus probably not able to complete content they were thrown in. It's a zero problem for experienced players but can lead to the pretty big issue with newer/less experienced players.0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭NO, absolutly not!Do not play pvp with this tests a lot.
Disable sets in PVE ?
And what for this sets ? To Delete with the game ?
Classes are balanced woth sets like:
20% damage with fire and etc.
Balance was perfectly fine 2 years ago whyle lor master go away
1 -
Faded✭✭✭✭✭Hahahaha
You have a point, and it addresses the central problem of balancing in this game, but would that be a mess they don't want to make. It would be fascinating to see outcomes, assuming half the active population didn't quit, which isn't a safe assumption.
They have been making absurdly OP gear and stuffing it into the game for years. It's a defining characteristic of their game at this point, and more importantly it's how they drive grind, which is engagement, which is money. Trying to reverse all that now would be a massive overhaul.
There are uncomplicated ways they could buff specific specs in PVP that would have little or no impact on endgame PVE. If they were unaware that's needed (which is hard to believe) the current testing in Cyro will be enough to illuminate them. There's no need to shake up PVE land.0 -
just don't put procs onEdited by deleted210809-001958 on March 26, 2021 3:24PM0
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Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO, absolutly not!Rather ask for separate PvE and PvP balancing. That's the only working long-term solution.0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NO, absolutly not!Why would anyone want to play a game where everyone has the same skills, same stats, same armor, with no diversity at all?
Vet dungeons and trials are all about people using their sets and skills to benefit the group. If you remove that, what is the point of group play? Might as well be a bunch of randos killing a world boss.
If you want to test your theory, go run VCR with 11 people with mismatched gear. Have fun.Edited by El_Borracho on March 26, 2021 9:26PM1 -
vesselwiththepestle✭✭✭✭✭
✭YES, disabling proc-sets for a brief time is a good idea.Yes, please.
Those who are against it probably are carried by procs
. /scnr 1000+ CP
PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant
Give me my wings back!0 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO, absolutly not!People who voted yes have clearly not done trials.
Also, pvp and pve cannot be balanced at the same time without shafting one of them.3 -
Cyrdemaceb17_ESO✭✭✭People who voted yes have clearly not done trials.
Also, pvp and pve cannot be balanced at the same time without shafting one of them.
Yes, balancing both inherites the mentioned risk of shafting one. But since ZOSseem to be actually working on balancing class skills in PvP, the idea was to give them enough date from PvE to minimize the impact those changes might have to dungeons and trials. And the idea was to give them sufficient data without sets in PvE - for a brief time - for comparison.
If ZOS don't need those data, they should tell us.
So far we are usually thrown under the bus by sudden changes.0 -
simple_specops✭✭✭NO, absolutly not!El_Borracho wrote: »
If you want to test your theory, go run VCR with 11 people with mismatched gear. Have fun.
LOL VCR can get messy with proc sets, with people wearing mismatched gear probably VSO would be enough to make them think twice, however I honestly don't think they will ever do something like this, I'm liking how much you could coordinate gear with team, with the possibility of everyone wearing a different set to help each other! 80% of time in progress trials is gear farming, devs want you to stay glued to the game, and without gear farming and optimisation we would have little to do!1 -
Faded✭✭✭✭✭Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »So far we are usually thrown under the bus by sudden changes.
Wouldn't expect any different this time either.0 -
Arkew✭✭✭Neither (please with explanation)remove proc set hmmmmm no, but add an option to hide it yeah fo sho because when you play tank in trial and nearly 8 dd use maw set they absolutely pollutes your framerate and fiel of vision.0
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RedMuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP, you really just want to watch the world, or at least the forum, burn, don't you?0 -
Cyrdemaceb17_ESO✭✭✭OP, you really just want to watch the world, or at least the forum, burn, don't you?
tbh: No, not really..
I am genuinly concerned about the impact the expected changes for PvP might have on the larger PvE section since they MUST start balancing the skills to remove the high class imbalance.
So far the discussion is quite civil and constructive. And I would never force the change, therefore the poll, to get a realistic feedback.
ZOS would never open this box of Pandora, so do I. Maybe they even habe a way to check their changes in PvE enviroment but just did not tell us. (Which I hope they do)
Thank you all for your feedback and the missing inflammatory postings so far.Edited by Cyrdemaceb17_ESO on March 27, 2021 5:45PM0