make procsets scale of stats

Noctus · October 2020

this way people wont be able to healthstack and rely on procs. idk why this havent been done yet.

EDIT:

this youtuber is allways right about his stuff in my opinion. how i see it if its stat based and nerfed ppl wont be able to spec into survivability and have their calurion for example hit for 15 k at the same time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEV1AKP4Iwk

Waffennacht · October 2020

Im sure that'll pigeonhole most builds straight into max damage.

Your way makes your abilities hit hard, and so does your procs.

Seems like lowering the damage or making the proc conditions harder would be better imo

Solariken · October 2020

Yeah I would love to see this happen. All damage and heal procs should scale and behave as regular abilities, and be able to crit.

Noctus · October 2020

Waffennacht wrote: »

Im sure that'll pigeonhole most builds straight into max damage.

This way your abilities hit hard, and so does your procs

if ur procbuild u have less hard hitting abilities and heals/shields/dodgerolls tbh. but healthstacking tanks beeing able to dish out dmg is quite disturbing.

in EUPC i allready saw 2 ppl using reflect build to kill ppl. this works becouse damage doesnt stack with ur resource.

but i gotta say u do have a point.

Urzigurumash · October 2020

Adding more conditions to procs is the best solution, although likely laborious.

If you nerf proc sets too much, they go back into the dustbin of irrelevance.

If you make procs scale off stats, you would need to actually buff their top end considerably, I think, or else you run the risk of subjecting them all to the Pelinal's Aptitude situation, where you're equipping a set just to "transform" damage and losing out on an actual source of damage.

JinxxND · October 2020

The combat team needs to stop being lazy and just go individually thru each set and close look at each set, look at it's damage type, it's total damage and damage potential, how the proc damage is applied is it easy to land such as sheer venom from max range on an execute ability vs pillar of nirn with a stationary small aoe with a delay and then adjust damage values off the conditions

JinxxND · October 2020

Makes you wonder what the combat team actually does as it seems that the player base is the one testing stuff for them after they make a mess of a patch even if they have been warned in the PTS phase then it takes numerous months usually to adjust sets

They also need to listen to the people that actually provide numbers with factual evidence instead of forum whiners that can barely play the game and don't understand simple mechanics, stuff like sheer venom syvarras should have never made it to live and sets like hunters venom haven't even been touched after numerous warnings and complaints of it's overtuned damage for it's easy nature to proc

Qbiken · October 2020

The biggest issues with procsets right now in my opinion are:

1. Does way too much damage or healing (some defensive procsets are overperforming as well) and multiple DoT proc-sets are allowed to stack on the same target.
2. Have way too easy proc-conditions with little to no trade offs.
3. Lack of proper counterplay ,especially against DoT procs. When even a magplar with extended ritual struggles to deal with the amount of negative effects placed on them, you know something isn´t balanced. Or having the majority of all procsets being able to apply from range (where snipe is a huge offender of ruining PvP atm)

While I´m not entirely agains the idea of making proc-sets scale of your offensive stats, I can see some dangerous outcomes by doing so if done incorrect. The issue on live is that you can invest heavily into max HP and defense/sustain and have proc sets do the damage for you. However, if the scaling (if proc-sets were to scale of your offensive stats) is done incorrectly we might end up with these sets doing even more damage than they currently do.

In my opinion, what needs to happen:

1. Limit the amount of DoT procs (like sheer venom, venomous smite, syvarra etc) that can be applied to a player to 1/set. This means you can´t have more than one sheer venom, one venomous smite etc. If this isn´t doable on a coding level, at least add an immunity timer if the proc is removed or ends (similar to how major vulnerability has an immunity on PvE mobs).

2. Look at each individual proc-set and adjust the proc conditions to become much harder to meet. "Deal crit damage" or "deal damage with an execute" are way too easy. Also, make more of these procs to require melee range. Having someone apply 10+ negative effects and DoTs on you from 30-40 + m away removes all options of counterplay and nullifies the "risk/reward" aspect completely.

3. Make malacath not buff instances of damage that can´t critically strike to begin with. This is another huge offender to why proc-sets are overperforming and should to be adjusted ASAP.

4. If these solutions aren´t prefered by the dev-team, at least buff stat based builds to give similar offensive and defensive stats as all these proc-sets do. Currently stat based builds are falling behind by miles in every cathegory.

Urzigurumash · October 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

However, if the scaling (if proc-sets were to scale of your offensive stats) is done incorrectly we might end up with these sets doing even more damage than they currently do.

Yes, this is what I was saying, they would almost have to make it so the procs do more damage on a pure glass cannon, or on a balanced build, the set would be like Pelinal's, and few would use it. We should assume the aim is to make the most amount of sets as relevant as possible.

Luede · October 2020

Noctus wrote: »

this way people wont be able to healthstack and rely on procs. idk why this havent been done yet.

this will only lead into much more devastating NB builds

jaws343 · October 2020

JinxxND wrote: »

The combat team needs to stop being lazy and just go individually thru each set and close look at each set, look at it's damage type, it's total damage and damage potential, how the proc damage is applied is it easy to land such as sheer venom from max range on an execute ability vs pillar of nirn with a stationary small aoe with a delay and then adjust damage values off the conditions

That's actually the problem though. They keep going through these sets in a vacuum. They look at the individual set and balance it around their idea for that set, but they fail to look at the larger picture in how that set interacts with other sets. So what you end up with is a bunch of proc sets that are perfectly balanced if they are the only set you are wearing, but when you combine them together, you get 3 proc sets that are way overbearing proccing off the same conditions. They need to stop balancing proc sets individually and rework how the proc system works altogether.

JinxxND · October 2020

jaws343 wrote: »

JinxxND wrote: »

The combat team needs to stop being lazy and just go individually thru each set and close look at each set, look at it's damage type, it's total damage and damage potential, how the proc damage is applied is it easy to land such as sheer venom from max range on an execute ability vs pillar of nirn with a stationary small aoe with a delay and then adjust damage values off the conditions

That's actually the problem though. They keep going through these sets in a vacuum. They look at the individual set and balance it around their idea for that set, but they fail to look at the larger picture in how that set interacts with other sets. So what you end up with is a bunch of proc sets that are perfectly balanced if they are the only set you are wearing, but when you combine them together, you get 3 proc sets that are way overbearing proccing off the same conditions. They need to stop balancing proc sets individually and rework how the proc system works altogether.

I fail to believe this as even with 1 proc set like sheer venom and nothing else it was already way over tuned and warned about with it's damage so of course when you pair it with other overtuned proc sets it's going to be way over the top. Just alone you have a proc that applies on execute abilities that are designed to already scale to have high damage in execute so there is no need for it by itself todo so much damage, forget the fact that they seemed to fail it would be almost only paired with a bow to double proc off one skill because it's cd is shorter then the duration of inject or the fact that it has an execute modifier of it's own on skills that are already supposed to execute with a modifier themselves, or the fact that it is poison damage so it also has the chance to apply a status effect for more damage unlike just normal physical damage, bleed damage (which is the same as physical now with no unique secondary effects) or plain magic damage.

The combat team should be ashamed of themselves and there should be someone over them holding them accountable for terrible decision and balancing they constantly seem to do especially when that is supposedly your job and you also have people helping from the outside (us players providing feedback) and letting stuff like that get into the game and then go on for so long

jaws343 · October 2020

JinxxND wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

JinxxND wrote: »

The combat team needs to stop being lazy and just go individually thru each set and close look at each set, look at it's damage type, it's total damage and damage potential, how the proc damage is applied is it easy to land such as sheer venom from max range on an execute ability vs pillar of nirn with a stationary small aoe with a delay and then adjust damage values off the conditions

That's actually the problem though. They keep going through these sets in a vacuum. They look at the individual set and balance it around their idea for that set, but they fail to look at the larger picture in how that set interacts with other sets. So what you end up with is a bunch of proc sets that are perfectly balanced if they are the only set you are wearing, but when you combine them together, you get 3 proc sets that are way overbearing proccing off the same conditions. They need to stop balancing proc sets individually and rework how the proc system works altogether.

I fail to believe this as even with 1 proc set like sheer venom and nothing else it was already way over tuned and warned about with it's damage so of course when you pair it with other overtuned proc sets it's going to be way over the top. Just alone you have a proc that applies on execute abilities that are designed to already scale to have high damage in execute so there is no need for it by itself todo so much damage, forget the fact that they seemed to fail it would be almost only paired with a bow to double proc off one skill because it's cd is shorter then the duration of inject or the fact that it has an execute modifier of it's own on skills that are already supposed to execute with a modifier themselves, or the fact that it is poison damage so it also has the chance to apply a status effect for more damage unlike just normal physical damage, bleed damage (which is the same as physical now with no unique secondary effects) or plain magic damage.

The combat team should be ashamed of themselves and there should be someone over them holding them accountable for terrible decision and balancing they constantly seem to do especially when that is supposedly your job and you also have people helping from the outside (us players providing feedback) and letting stuff like that get into the game and then go on for so long

I certainly wasn't trying to say that they succeeded in balancing these independently. Sheer Venom is even worse in an AOE type situation with dual wield execute, since it has no global cooldown and only a per target cooldown. Just that they're failure at balancing the sets is greatly magnified when they are paired with eachother.

JinxxND · October 2020

It not even the fact that they can be paired together it's the damage on some of the sets, the damage type (ie poison, fire, physical etc.) as that too can also have secondary damage effects on top of specific resistances to go thru via spell penetration or physical pentation which depending on they set can be boosted by stuff like mauls/light armor etc. opposite value proc damage not pairing as well with magic or stam based builds, and the condition to proc the proc.

For example you can pair pillar of nirn arguably the highest damage proc set in the game with widowmaker another extremely high damage proc set with another proc like stormfist for example but very few will complain because of how hard it is to land them despite the crazy high damage potential. If the combat team actually did their job what they are supposedly paid for and balanced sets when they reworked them looking at each set individually and actually thinking about them we wouldn't be in this meta where procs are all over literally in one of the worst meta the game has ever seen I would even argue worse then the old viper meta because the ease of use with a lot of these new proc sets that absurdly high damage for there condition

precambria · October 2020

Sheer venom procs twice off one skill use, they literally do not test things before letting them go live that is the problem. Nobody went into a PTS bg and fought the selestrix sheer builds and said "yeah this is fun" purely based on the fact bombard still works like it does and engine guarding is still body blocking the only conclusion that makes sense is they do not actually play the game.

Noctus · March 2021

this thread is old but even more relevant these days.