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The Faketank plague continues and Zenimax does nothing but punish proper players.
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svendf✭✭✭✭GoodFella146 wrote: »The topic that never dies. Since most dungeons don't need a tank (or especially a healer), maybe it's just time to have a 4 dps queue so we can get these babies done asap. Most dungeons it's actually a detriment to have a healer or a tank as they just slow you down.
Im rather supriced over that statement. You can use your guild roster much faster for those runs, than GF - maybe you don´t have a guild roster, which wouuld explain you use GF so you can run your little babies.
It´s much faster to form a 4 dd run from guild roster than those long que times. When you are at it, why not try speedrunning eachother or see, who can do most LA`s xD without hitting anything. Running backwards could also be an alternative, maybe not fast enough xD.
The most important is these babies are run fast or really fast and the path to that is the guild roster. No long que´s or slow tanks/healers xD2 -
stefj68✭✭✭✭✭When i pug a dungeon, i expect to get fake tanks... when i want a real tank, i just organize a group togheter and do it... what do you want zenimax to do...
all normal dungeon could be done with 4 dps
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robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »It doesn't matter what you do, you're not going to get the rest of the community to like tanking. I've been playing MMOs for 15+ years, and I've run tanks in most of them, and they are, publicly, a rare breed. There's a reason for that. Read the OP for one such reason, and check out HiveLeader's videos for another set of reasons.
Unfortunately, the suggested main strategy to blame the healer while cute, doesn't work in ESO anymore since "healers are irrelevant," "not needed," "the same as DDs just with a heal on their bar," and... add in any other comment you care to which equates with healers need to leave the game, not play, git gud, L2DPS, etc etc etc
*eyerolls*
They have a similar video for healers, and dps toons too.0 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭i think this fake tank situation isnt that bad as you suggesting it is. beside. as tank main im never taking my tank or healer into random dungeons. im just simply not trusting the other players dps. i rather set my dd to heal or tank and rather carry them most of the time, because its faster than just spending half an hour or similar in a normal random dungeon where the boredom takes me while waiting on them to dps the boss. as healer i even join to dps the boss.Edited by WeerW3ir on March 20, 2021 1:34AM0 -
Madhojo✭✭✭100% agree. Its indanely frustrating to watch the "tank" not agro anything, have no clue how to block or dodge or even just move out of an aoe.1
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gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »These threads are always so dang funny.
Fake tanking - fulfilling the tank roll while not geared as a tank (but with a taunt, and skill at surviving) is perfectly fine.
If you don't hold agro or die, you are are not doing it correctly (this is not a fake tank, this is just a bad dps).
I have fake tanked all normals (dlcs included) and most vets (obviously not some dlc ones) on my dps stamplar. I hold agro, I don't die, and I do great dps.
Any situation other than this is something you can complain about. Heck I've even healed vets where the tank had 12k hp. Who cares, if they can do the job, it doesn't matter. If they can't, then you can complain.
No. Fake Tanking is queueing for the tank role without actually intending to hold aggro and control boss positioning.
99.9% of "tanks" with less than 20k health are either not holding aggro, dying constantly, or staying alive by kiting bosses all over the dungeon.
Wrong
I fake tank, I hold agro, control bosses positioning. It is easy. You just have had bad experiences with bad players I think.Edited by gariondavey on March 20, 2021 4:31AMPC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭gariondavey wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »These threads are always so dang funny.
Fake tanking - fulfilling the tank roll while not geared as a tank (but with a taunt, and skill at surviving) is perfectly fine.
If you don't hold agro or die, you are are not doing it correctly (this is not a fake tank, this is just a bad dps).
I have fake tanked all normals (dlcs included) and most vets (obviously not some dlc ones) on my dps stamplar. I hold agro, I don't die, and I do great dps.
Any situation other than this is something you can complain about. Heck I've even healed vets where the tank had 12k hp. Who cares, if they can do the job, it doesn't matter. If they can't, then you can complain.
No. Fake Tanking is queueing for the tank role without actually intending to hold aggro and control boss positioning.
99.9% of "tanks" with less than 20k health are either not holding aggro, dying constantly, or staying alive by kiting bosses all over the dungeon.
Wrong
I fake tank, I hold agro, control bosses positioning. It is easy. You just have had bad experiences with bad players I think.
If you hold aggro and control bosses' positioning you're not fake tanking. (Almost) Nobody here is complaining about people who do those things.
(Most) Complaints about fake tanking aren't about people tanking with non-meta builds, they're about people queueing for the tank role without actually intending to fulfill its most basic requirements.1 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭I feel like an LFG Tool would remedy this really well but it'd have to be pretty detailed like Leader's preferred comp and a small description of the goal for the group kinda like the Guild Finder tbh could even copy some of its UI.0 -
Daemonai✭✭✭✭
If you are performing the role responsibilities of a tank, then you aren't fake tanking, obviously. Most fake tanks queue up without the intention of taunting or controlling anything .gariondavey wrote: »Wrong
I fake tank, I hold agro, control bosses positioning. It is easy. You just have had bad experiences with bad players I think.2 -
Daemonai✭✭✭✭As someone who plays a tank exclusively, I've been largely insulated from the existence of fake tanks, since I'm always the tank. But now that I'm playing my healer more in dungeons...I swear over half of the tanks I get in pugs are fake tanks.
It's tolerable in normal dungeons because most normals can be slept through, but getting fake tanks in vet dungeons that don't even have enough health to survive the one-shots while blocking or who simply don't understand taunting/control has created some chaotic, short-lived runs.1 -
RedMuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭lemonizzle wrote: »Only place where fake tank hurts is vet dlc dungeons (and trials ofc) in a random setting. Organized groups can clear them with 4 dps like nothing, even back in 2017.
This "fake tank in normal Fungal 1 wtf zos!!!11" charade is getting old, do better dps so you don't even have to think about whether the 'tank' is someone who presses 1 button and stands still or someone who helps you clear the whole thing in less than 10 minutes.
Maybe so, but FG2 without a proper tank can be a right mess, let me tell you. And it's rich of you telling dps to do a better job when the problem is that the tank refuses to do theirs.3 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You cant have it both ways. Either join a guild with active dungeoneers or do what i did and play tanks. If your doing normal randoms you dont even need a tank. Pale order ring i think was designed for this.0 -
VaxtinTheWolf✭✭✭✭✭Choose your Role:
[ - ] Damage [ X ] Tank [ - ] Healer
Choose a Dungeon:
[ - ] Normal [ X ]Veteran
[ Banished Cells II ] (Selection List)
Group Composition:
[ X ] Tank/Healer/Damage/Damage
[ - ] Tank/Damage/Damage/Damage
[ - ] Healer/Damage/Damage/Damage
[ - ] No Preference (Anything Goes)
[ Join Queue ] [Leave Queue] Searching... (0 minutes, 14 seconds)|| AD - Rah'Jiin Lv50 Khajiit Nightblade (Damage) || EP - Generic Argonian Lv50 Argonian Nightblade (Tank) || DC - Zinkotsu Lv50 Breton Nightblade (Healer) ||
|| DC - Ja'Kiro Feral-Heart Lv50 Khajiit Dragonknight (Damage) || EP - VaxtinTheWolf Lv50 Redguard Templar (Tank) || AD - Velik Iranis Lv50 Dark Elf Sorcerer (Tank ) ||
|| EP - Einvarg The Frozen Lv50 Nord Warden (Tank/Healer) || EP - Keem-Ja Lv4 Argonian Necromancer (Healer/Tank) ||PC - North American Server (Champion 1300+)4 -
svendf✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »These threads are always so dang funny.
Fake tanking - fulfilling the tank roll while not geared as a tank (but with a taunt, and skill at surviving) is perfectly fine.
If you don't hold agro or die, you are are not doing it correctly (this is not a fake tank, this is just a bad dps).
I have fake tanked all normals (dlcs included) and most vets (obviously not some dlc ones) on my dps stamplar. I hold agro, I don't die, and I do great dps.
Any situation other than this is something you can complain about. Heck I've even healed vets where the tank had 12k hp. Who cares, if they can do the job, it doesn't matter. If they can't, then you can complain.
No. Fake Tanking is queueing for the tank role without actually intending to hold aggro and control boss positioning.
99.9% of "tanks" with less than 20k health are either not holding aggro, dying constantly, or staying alive by kiting bosses all over the dungeon.
Wrong
I fake tank, I hold agro, control bosses positioning. It is easy. You just have had bad experiences with bad players I think.
Ok! Show me MH, MOS. Just two easy nDLC`s. You are a DD ? Right ? Show me your resistance and HP mr. fake tank xD0 -
svendf✭✭✭✭You cant have it both ways. Either join a guild with active dungeoneers or do what i did and play tanks. If your doing normal randoms you dont even need a tank. Pale order ring i think was designed for this.
May I advice you to do the same. After all you do ave a guild roster as I do. don´t you ? Just because it´s normal doesn`t mean you can behave like you wish, or can you ?
Pale order is a ring made for extra heal on solo runs if you need that. I do understand it´s hard for some to understand that and figure that out - it´s ok to ask xD.
You like to use that ring diffrant, which will result in keeping a role out of the game. But, who cares as long you feel col with that rinng. Right !??
No it´s not ZOS, who is the bad boy, They give you something to use and it´s up to you to use it wisely xD. Even being a bit adault about it.0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You cant have it both ways. Either join a guild with active dungeoneers or do what i did and play tanks. If your doing normal randoms you dont even need a tank. Pale order ring i think was designed for this.
May I advice you to do the same. After all you do ave a guild roster as I do. don´t you ? Just because it´s normal doesn`t mean you can behave like you wish, or can you ?
what does this even mean?
Pale order is a ring made for extra heal on solo runs if you need that. I do understand it´s hard for some to understand that and figure that out - it´s ok to ask xD.
yes..exactly,run it solo if the group finder is an issue on normal so you dont have to use the group finder, whats not to understand?
You like to use that ring diffrant, which will result in keeping a role out of the game. But, who cares as long you feel col with that rinng. Right !??
yet another non sensical, the only thing keeping a role out of the game is the lack of difficulty
No it´s not ZOS, who is the bad boy, They give you something to use and it´s up to you to use it wisely xD. Even being a bit adault about it.
wut? are you reading what you type? judging by your post history, it sounds like your upset the ring replaced "your role"
Edited by Mojmir on March 20, 2021 3:11PM1 -
KaGaOri✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »These threads are always so dang funny.
Fake tanking - fulfilling the tank roll while not geared as a tank (but with a taunt, and skill at surviving) is perfectly fine.
If you don't hold agro or die, you are are not doing it correctly (this is not a fake tank, this is just a bad dps).
I have fake tanked all normals (dlcs included) and most vets (obviously not some dlc ones) on my dps stamplar. I hold agro, I don't die, and I do great dps.
Any situation other than this is something you can complain about. Heck I've even healed vets where the tank had 12k hp. Who cares, if they can do the job, it doesn't matter. If they can't, then you can complain.
No. Fake Tanking is queueing for the tank role without actually intending to hold aggro and control boss positioning.
99.9% of "tanks" with less than 20k health are either not holding aggro, dying constantly, or staying alive by kiting bosses all over the dungeon.
Wrong
I fake tank, I hold agro, control bosses positioning. It is easy. You just have had bad experiences with bad players I think.
Don't think there are many players snobbish enough to get salty if their pug tank isn't 100% tank build. Being able to preform very basics of tank role is good enough for most. What players have problem with are ppl queueing as tank that a) have no taunt, don't hold agro and hide behind other 3 players to get free carry (may or may not hapen depending on dungeon rng gave them and strenght of other players in group), or b) are high level on "selfish" solo build and proceed to solo speedrun the dungeon, disregarding rest of the group (low lvl, slower mag build, doing quest, looking in chests for gear ...). These make rest of the group miserable / cause complaining, not off-tank builds sticking with group and actually tanking bosses.0 -
Sju✭✭✭✭You cant have it both ways. Either join a guild with active dungeoneers or do what i did and play tanks. If your doing normal randoms you dont even need a tank. Pale order ring i think was designed for this.
May I advice you to do the same. After all you do ave a guild roster as I do. don´t you ? Just because it´s normal doesn`t mean you can behave like you wish, or can you ?
what does this even mean?
Pale order is a ring made for extra heal on solo runs if you need that. I do understand it´s hard for some to understand that and figure that out - it´s ok to ask xD.
yes..exactly,run it solo if the group finder is an issue on normal so you dont have to use the group finder, whats not to understand?
You like to use that ring diffrant, which will result in keeping a role out of the game. But, who cares as long you feel col with that rinng. Right !??
yet another non sensical, the only thing keeping a role out of the game is the lack of difficulty
No it´s not ZOS, who is the bad boy, They give you something to use and it´s up to you to use it wisely xD. Even being a bit adault about it.
wut? are you reading what you type? judging by your post history, it sounds like your upset the ring replaced "your role"
Lol, why the quotes? Anyone would be upset watching their favorite/only role disappear due to mythics like this, or a substantial increase in damage to the point of face rolling over mechanics negates any use for the role.0 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »These threads are always so dang funny.
Fake tanking - fulfilling the tank roll while not geared as a tank (but with a taunt, and skill at surviving) is perfectly fine.
If you don't hold agro or die, you are are not doing it correctly (this is not a fake tank, this is just a bad dps).
I have fake tanked all normals (dlcs included) and most vets (obviously not some dlc ones) on my dps stamplar. I hold agro, I don't die, and I do great dps.
Any situation other than this is something you can complain about. Heck I've even healed vets where the tank had 12k hp. Who cares, if they can do the job, it doesn't matter. If they can't, then you can complain.
No. Fake Tanking is queueing for the tank role without actually intending to hold aggro and control boss positioning.
99.9% of "tanks" with less than 20k health are either not holding aggro, dying constantly, or staying alive by kiting bosses all over the dungeon.
Wrong
I fake tank, I hold agro, control bosses positioning. It is easy. You just have had bad experiences with bad players I think.
Don't think there are many players snobbish enough to get salty if their pug tank isn't 100% tank build. Being able to preform very basics of tank role is good enough for most. What players have problem with are ppl queueing as tank that a) have no taunt, don't hold agro and hide behind other 3 players to get free carry (may or may not hapen depending on dungeon rng gave them and strenght of other players in group), or b) are high level on "selfish" solo build and proceed to solo speedrun the dungeon, disregarding rest of the group (low lvl, slower mag build, doing quest, looking in chests for gear ...). These make rest of the group miserable / cause complaining, not off-tank builds sticking with group and actually tanking bosses.
Well, we know there's at least one, they made this thread. Seems like there's been some tacit agreement with HP being a standard. So there may be more than you think.1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭robertthebard wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »These threads are always so dang funny.
Fake tanking - fulfilling the tank roll while not geared as a tank (but with a taunt, and skill at surviving) is perfectly fine.
If you don't hold agro or die, you are are not doing it correctly (this is not a fake tank, this is just a bad dps).
I have fake tanked all normals (dlcs included) and most vets (obviously not some dlc ones) on my dps stamplar. I hold agro, I don't die, and I do great dps.
Any situation other than this is something you can complain about. Heck I've even healed vets where the tank had 12k hp. Who cares, if they can do the job, it doesn't matter. If they can't, then you can complain.
No. Fake Tanking is queueing for the tank role without actually intending to hold aggro and control boss positioning.
99.9% of "tanks" with less than 20k health are either not holding aggro, dying constantly, or staying alive by kiting bosses all over the dungeon.
Wrong
I fake tank, I hold agro, control bosses positioning. It is easy. You just have had bad experiences with bad players I think.
Don't think there are many players snobbish enough to get salty if their pug tank isn't 100% tank build. Being able to preform very basics of tank role is good enough for most. What players have problem with are ppl queueing as tank that a) have no taunt, don't hold agro and hide behind other 3 players to get free carry (may or may not hapen depending on dungeon rng gave them and strenght of other players in group), or b) are high level on "selfish" solo build and proceed to solo speedrun the dungeon, disregarding rest of the group (low lvl, slower mag build, doing quest, looking in chests for gear ...). These make rest of the group miserable / cause complaining, not off-tank builds sticking with group and actually tanking bosses.
Well, we know there's at least one, they made this thread. Seems like there's been some tacit agreement with HP being a standard. So there may be more than you think.
HP is just the most straightforward signal we have to see whether someone intends to act as a tank or not without having to read their mind (or wait until after the first boss).
The number of people who can PuG tank vet dungeons with less than 20k HP is virtually zero. I know there are a few people in this thread who claim they can do so by dodge rolling, but I've never actually seen a dodge roll "tank" who doesn't kite bosses all over the place, so it's an exceptionally rare skill (if it even really exists).Edited by the1andonlyskwex on March 20, 2021 8:05PM3