Sheuib wrote: »

And, all the people complaining about dying to sets the truth is you were dying to people that were better than you. They can build better than you. They can play better than you. Get over it. I know there are people out there that play better than me and I am ok with that. I just want to go out there and enjoy the character that I want to play.

One person wearing proc sets was never that much of an issue. It's that multiple people in groups stack direct damage proc sets then focus down single targets. There is absolutely no counterplay to that. Simply slotting purge is not a counter. They either need to be toned down considerably or they just need to not come back into Cyrodiil.

All of you were all about farming the new OP sets every DLC. I'm not sure why this is a problem now. Your time spent farming or gold spent buying and upgrading isn't worth more than the next persons.

Sheuib wrote: »

Sure it was fun for the first week. And, I was willing to survive through it for the rest of the test. But, this is boring. Now I have to put up with this for another 6 months and possibly more.

I have a bunch of sets that are no good. I have one magicka set that I can use and no stam sets that I can use. I am not about to farm new sets for all my characters. Trying to come up with a good unique build was part of the fun.

The only legitimate survival technique now is running around stuff and hiding and I just don't like that play style. Or build so tanky that you do zero damage. And, that is the ultimate in PVP boredom.

No CP in battlegrounds which I really want to play using CP. That only leaves IC. I do like IC but it is really a different kind of game than Cyrodiil.

On top of all that it is still the same people that are getting killed by the same other people. I am still able to kill the people that I have always been able to kill. I am still dying to the same people that were killing me before. The larger groups are still killing the smaller groups. The people that were running around in the towers are still running around in the towers. Nothing has changed.

What happened to play how you want? Well I want all my sets back.

And, all the people complaining about dying to sets the truth is you were dying to people that were better than you. They can build better than you. They can play better than you. Get over it. I know there are people out there that play better than me and I am ok with that. I just want to go out there and enjoy the character that I want to play.

all truth,
well said

People who think putting crimson is god mode, have never clearly used the set. Its not that good, only good when getting zerged, its trash 1v1, 2v1.

Most stam players who understand PVP run EV over crimson, because consistent sustain keeps you alive longer than a burst heal every 8 seconds, hits and heals for like 3k.

Brrrofski wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

And, all the people complaining about dying to sets the truth is you were dying to people that were better than you. They can build better than you. They can play better than you. Get over it. I know there are people out there that play better than me and I am ok with that. I just want to go out there and enjoy the character that I want to play.

One person wearing proc sets was never that much of an issue. It's that multiple people in groups stack direct damage proc sets then focus down single targets. There is absolutely no counterplay to that. .

Of course not. Multiple people focus a single target is the intelligent way to fight. The problem here is not the set but one single target wanting take down multiple people.

Yeh, but the problem is a single player who's capable of taking down multiple players can't do that when crimson and earthgore are carrying them. Lying on the floor, not breaking CCs and then all this healing just saves them over and over.

Sometimes I like to play solo, duo, small groups and big groups with my guilds.

I have one build for each char for each situation.

And when I'm in na small or big groups we will focus and aoe and dots more than single targets ability this will not change doesn't matter sets or not in my opinion. Small groups and big groups most of the time have healers and a single player will not kill a coordenated groups with or without proc sets.

Now a group of pugs, a good player will get some kill or eventually kill everybody with or without proc sets.

But in my opinion ZOS could let everybody happy giving us a proc and no proc campaign now.

When somebody complain about proc or not we just remember him that it is another campaign that he can play with or without procs.

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

So it seems to me that you perform about the same even without proc sets, i don´t understand your complaint then. You need proc sets for what? The troll factor?

Maybe it's hard to find, so let me help you:
1st in the headline): "No proc Cyrodiil is boring"
2nd sentence): "But, this is boring"

He is not complaining how he performs.

I btw perform better (as I only play MagSorc) but I'm bored since week 1,5 of the test, bc I have to play my MagSorc now like everybody else.

Six months of testing is too long.
We have already tested it enough.

Jayserix wrote: »

Yeah because magsorc had so much depth and versatility in PvP, it boils down to VERY few differences ... The class plays the same it did in 2014 mostly

1) that wasn't the topic
2) If you think so, it's your own lack of creativity

Sheuib wrote: »

Sure it was fun for the first week. And, I was willing to survive through it for the rest of the test. But, this is boring. Now I have to put up with this for another 6 months and possibly more.

I have a bunch of sets that are no good. I have one magicka set that I can use and no stam sets that I can use. I am not about to farm new sets for all my characters. Trying to come up with a good unique build was part of the fun.

The only legitimate survival technique now is running around stuff and hiding and I just don't like that play style. Or build so tanky that you do zero damage. And, that is the ultimate in PVP boredom.

No CP in battlegrounds which I really want to play using CP. That only leaves IC. I do like IC but it is really a different kind of game than Cyrodiil.

On top of all that it is still the same people that are getting killed by the same other people. I am still able to kill the people that I have always been able to kill. I am still dying to the same people that were killing me before. The larger groups are still killing the smaller groups. The people that were running around in the towers are still running around in the towers. Nothing has changed.

What happened to play how you want? Well I want all my sets back.

And, all the people complaining about dying to sets the truth is you were dying to people that were better than you. They can build better than you. They can play better than you. Get over it. I know there are people out there that play better than me and I am ok with that. I just want to go out there and enjoy the character that I want to play.

Sheuib wrote: »

Sure it was fun for the first week. And, I was willing to survive through it for the rest of the test. But, this is boring. Now I have to put up with this for another 6 months and possibly more.

I have a bunch of sets that are no good. I have one magicka set that I can use and no stam sets that I can use. I am not about to farm new sets for all my characters. Trying to come up with a good unique build was part of the fun.

The only legitimate survival technique now is running around stuff and hiding and I just don't like that play style. Or build so tanky that you do zero damage. And, that is the ultimate in PVP boredom.

No CP in battlegrounds which I really want to play using CP. That only leaves IC. I do like IC but it is really a different kind of game than Cyrodiil.

On top of all that it is still the same people that are getting killed by the same other people. I am still able to kill the people that I have always been able to kill. I am still dying to the same people that were killing me before. The larger groups are still killing the smaller groups. The people that were running around in the towers are still running around in the towers. Nothing has changed.

What happened to play how you want? Well I want all my sets back.

And, all the people complaining about dying to sets the truth is you were dying to people that were better than you. They can build better than you. They can play better than you. Get over it. I know there are people out there that play better than me and I am ok with that. I just want to go out there and enjoy the character that I want to play.

Sheuib wrote: »

Sure it was fun for the first week. And, I was willing to survive through it for the rest of the test. But, this is boring. Now I have to put up with this for another 6 months and possibly more.

I have a bunch of sets that are no good. I have one magicka set that I can use and no stam sets that I can use. I am not about to farm new sets for all my characters. Trying to come up with a good unique build was part of the fun.

The only legitimate survival technique now is running around stuff and hiding and I just don't like that play style. Or build so tanky that you do zero damage. And, that is the ultimate in PVP boredom.

No CP in battlegrounds which I really want to play using CP. That only leaves IC. I do like IC but it is really a different kind of game than Cyrodiil.

On top of all that it is still the same people that are getting killed by the same other people. I am still able to kill the people that I have always been able to kill. I am still dying to the same people that were killing me before. The larger groups are still killing the smaller groups. The people that were running around in the towers are still running around in the towers. Nothing has changed.

What happened to play how you want? Well I want all my sets back.

And, all the people complaining about dying to sets the truth is you were dying to people that were better than you. They can build better than you. They can play better than you. Get over it. I know there are people out there that play better than me and I am ok with that. I just want to go out there and enjoy the character that I want to play.

Finally someone who is telling it like it is . Thank you!! I put so much into my 9 PvP builds and there all being nerfed . There all golded out with glyphs ect . This might be the straw that broke the camels back for me . All the money and time invested in the game for nothing. I am currently considering not playing the game anymore if this happens. Thank you for saying it how it is .

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Jayserix wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

[...]
Of course not. Multiple people focus a single target is the intelligent way to fight. The problem here is not the set but one single target wanting take down multiple people.

Wait, players ganging up on stragglers and solo players is the way to play the game ? Interesting ...

Cyrodill is a war. Faction against faction if you think you will be Rambo alone killing thousand of players you are wrong.yes you can solos but alone you are weak, together we are strong.

But you can still have fun playing alone for sure, but don't blame players that play a mmorpg together.

Don't think that was the point he was saying though, sure it's large scale pvp and most people realize that but still some large groups still choose to pursue random solo players relentlessly as if they're as big a priority as an actual zerg who can take a keep. Seen large groups literally chase a single player across the map, even though there's not a chance of them being able to snag a keep solo

Zabagad wrote: »

Jayserix wrote: »

Yeah because magsorc had so much depth and versatility in PvP, it boils down to VERY few differences ... The class plays the same it did in 2014 mostly

1) that wasn't the topic

Then why did you bring that up ?

Zabagad wrote: »

2) If you think so, it's your own lack of creativity

Like I said, mostly.

BornTritonXXL wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

Sure it was fun for the first week. And, I was willing to survive through it for the rest of the test. But, this is boring. Now I have to put up with this for another 6 months and possibly more.

I have a bunch of sets that are no good. I have one magicka set that I can use and no stam sets that I can use. I am not about to farm new sets for all my characters. Trying to come up with a good unique build was part of the fun.

The only legitimate survival technique now is running around stuff and hiding and I just don't like that play style. Or build so tanky that you do zero damage. And, that is the ultimate in PVP boredom.

No CP in battlegrounds which I really want to play using CP. That only leaves IC. I do like IC but it is really a different kind of game than Cyrodiil.

On top of all that it is still the same people that are getting killed by the same other people. I am still able to kill the people that I have always been able to kill. I am still dying to the same people that were killing me before. The larger groups are still killing the smaller groups. The people that were running around in the towers are still running around in the towers. Nothing has changed.

What happened to play how you want? Well I want all my sets back.

And, all the people complaining about dying to sets the truth is you were dying to people that were better than you. They can build better than you. They can play better than you. Get over it. I know there are people out there that play better than me and I am ok with that. I just want to go out there and enjoy the character that I want to play.

Sheuib wrote: »

Sure it was fun for the first week. And, I was willing to survive through it for the rest of the test. But, this is boring. Now I have to put up with this for another 6 months and possibly more.

I have a bunch of sets that are no good. I have one magicka set that I can use and no stam sets that I can use. I am not about to farm new sets for all my characters. Trying to come up with a good unique build was part of the fun.

The only legitimate survival technique now is running around stuff and hiding and I just don't like that play style. Or build so tanky that you do zero damage. And, that is the ultimate in PVP boredom.

No CP in battlegrounds which I really want to play using CP. That only leaves IC. I do like IC but it is really a different kind of game than Cyrodiil.

On top of all that it is still the same people that are getting killed by the same other people. I am still able to kill the people that I have always been able to kill. I am still dying to the same people that were killing me before. The larger groups are still killing the smaller groups. The people that were running around in the towers are still running around in the towers. Nothing has changed.

What happened to play how you want? Well I want all my sets back.

And, all the people complaining about dying to sets the truth is you were dying to people that were better than you. They can build better than you. They can play better than you. Get over it. I know there are people out there that play better than me and I am ok with that. I just want to go out there and enjoy the character that I want to play.

Sheuib wrote: »

Sure it was fun for the first week. And, I was willing to survive through it for the rest of the test. But, this is boring. Now I have to put up with this for another 6 months and possibly more.

I have a bunch of sets that are no good. I have one magicka set that I can use and no stam sets that I can use. I am not about to farm new sets for all my characters. Trying to come up with a good unique build was part of the fun.

The only legitimate survival technique now is running around stuff and hiding and I just don't like that play style. Or build so tanky that you do zero damage. And, that is the ultimate in PVP boredom.

No CP in battlegrounds which I really want to play using CP. That only leaves IC. I do like IC but it is really a different kind of game than Cyrodiil.

On top of all that it is still the same people that are getting killed by the same other people. I am still able to kill the people that I have always been able to kill. I am still dying to the same people that were killing me before. The larger groups are still killing the smaller groups. The people that were running around in the towers are still running around in the towers. Nothing has changed.

What happened to play how you want? Well I want all my sets back.

And, all the people complaining about dying to sets the truth is you were dying to people that were better than you. They can build better than you. They can play better than you. Get over it. I know there are people out there that play better than me and I am ok with that. I just want to go out there and enjoy the character that I want to play.

Finally someone who is telling it like it is . Thank you!! I put so much into my 9 PvP builds and there all being nerfed . There all golded out with glyphs ect . This might be the straw that broke the camels back for me . All the money and time invested in the game for nothing. I am currently considering not playing the game anymore if this happens. Thank you for saying it how it is .

You main a 40k health werewolf and usually don’t attack people solo, waiting to Xv1 other players down and I’ve never seen you play anything else, you talk about time invested yet not a moment of that was learning how to survive, kite, theorycraft or perform a burst combo without relying on the worst crutch in the game werewolf. You are complaining because without being on a unkillable tank with gear to do damage for you the skill floor is visible again and you sit on it, you and the others who have a similar playstyle have gone so long without dying constantly that you’ve misinterpreted that as improvement, all while running around with 40k resists, 40k health malacath and a health ~15k spammable burst heal.

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

I am still able to kill the people that I have always been able to kill. I am still dying to the same people that were killing me before. The larger groups are still killing the smaller groups. The people that were running around in the towers are still running around in the towers. Nothing has changed.

So it seems to me that you perform about the same even without proc sets, i don´t understand your complaint then. You need proc sets for what? The troll factor?

I enjoy no proc set cyrodiil. I don´t say that proc sets shouldn't come back, they should be reworked to something that adds variety but is not overperforming or let´s say it straight easy mode like some of the sets were.

If it was just the troll proc sets I could get over that but apparently what ZOS considers a proc is about 90% of the sets in the game. Including monster sets, antiquities, and master weapons. What's the point of having all this stuff if I can't use any of it in the game that I want to play.

Gardarik wrote: »

Moreover, the change is extremely newbie-unfriendly. Most casual players won't even bother going to this forum and searching for which sets work in PvP. They will find a set they like according to the description, try it in PvP, find out it doesn't just suck - it simply doesn't work at all -> frustration, less incentives to go into PvP. Less fresh playerbase = bad dynamics for the game.

I think this is off base, but you are looking at it from the standpoint of someone who is not in a guild or who does research into PVP before they go in there. I think that's not a typical case. If you are a solo casual type, even the game quests tell you that you need to group. Once you take that on, you are going to look for advice.

I host a number of PVP events designed to introduce PVErs to the game, and they actually like the proc set restrictions. They are able to hold their own in combat better, and even though they still die they can get some shots in before getting owned. That keeps them coming back for subsequent events. Cyrodiil has gotten more accessible and popular within my guild since the change. I took a poll for our burgeoning ball group this week given what might happen in the future, and the majority want to stick with no-proc if that's an option after U30 comes out because they like the purity and relative evenness of class-oriented play.

Our experience prior to that was that we could come in with 20 people for a Tier 1 farming run, and get obliterated within seconds by a 10 player group all running proxy, permafrost, and eye of the storm, running max damage/vicious death combos, with a handful of healers running max heals/purgey type sets. That same ball group is not nearly as effective now. They can still wipe us by being coordinated and talented, but we have a shot at fighting back, because we can react to and mitigate their CCs and burst damage without people exploding right and left. Experienced 1vXers that we come across while playing Ring Around the Rosy in a RSS tower actually die sometimes, despite their amazing play. That's the way it should be. They survived for a while due to their amazing talent, but not forever because of cheese mixed with amazing talent.

Another experience to share: I took 10 people into IC during this past MM. A necro running crimson with the VH sword and board took us 10 minutes to kill, because they kept dragging us in when the crimson procced, which kept healing, and used ulti gen buffs to pop goliath every 30 seconds or so. Even reacting to those circumstances and coordinating in Discord, going ranged and staying out of pull range, with the necro damage and remote pull they were able to kill some people and not die. It was not a matter of talent that kept that player alive. It was the stacking of procs and abilities that was supporting their ability to withstand a 10v1 scenario and still get some kills in. For ten minutes. That's crazy. That's the other end of the spectrum.

I have similar issues with BGs now. I'm not a great BG player by any means. If I queue with some other less experienced players and we get Chaosball with a WW group running Crimson, they just grab the ball and find a difficult ledge to park on next to a healer. At that point I just leave the game, because nothing can overcome that unless you built a team specifically geared and specced to deal with that situation. I've tried many times to fight back. It's basically over at that point.

Newer people playing in those environments react negatively to the situation, because they have both a skill gap and a gear gap to close, so the road ahead seems way longer. It just simply does not make sense for someone to invest the time to start to get better in that environment if they have to play in it from day 1 and are overwhelmed without being given the opportunity to hone their skills within the frame of their limits. I've made this analogy before: it's like throwing a freshly minted CP 160 into vCR on hard mode with neither talent nor gear to support them. They are not going to do well, and without a way to introduce variety and difficulty in a more iterative way (by leveling up doing normal trials with better gear, and then vet trials with the best gear, and then moving to hard mode), they'd just abandon those goals.

PVP needs a sort of progression ladder. Proc set restrictions are one way to do that, but it's also incredibly unfair to highly experienced PVPers who invested time and gold to theorycraft and make amazing and creative builds. Bow gankers and bombers disappeared, which ruins the game for people who enjoy that experience. I think that making room for both preferences and providing options is an appropriate way to go forward that actually increases overall interest in PVP across the board.

I'm not advocating for a specific solution, but I wanted to share my own experience on the matter of newbies moving into PVP, because I don't think it's entirely a proc set issue either way. The proc sets exacerbate the underlying issues when they are imbalanced and exploitable by an experienced and talented player or group, while some mediocre players can exploit them to kill experienced and talented players who get frustrated by the fact that they got killed by someone with less skill due to procs. It's a lot to unpack.