KalyanLazair wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

KalyanLazair wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

I think stastically, because I run so many dungeons, that I have grouped with someone that would, if they knew I had the add on, would have blocked me on principle alone.

Doesn't that tell you something? They would block you on principle. The principle being their privacy being violated so someone else can ask them for their loot.

If a player wants to share drops they don't need they will link them. But it's their drops and their decision what they do with them. Using an addon to breach that and put them on the spot is just wrong.

No, that add on does nothing to breach that. The loot is yours until you decide that youre willing to part with it for whatever reason. The add in no way changes the ownership.

But my question was, how is that mentality "middle ground?" It isnt and is not a reasonable position to take.

A neighbor down the street stopped by and asked me if I'd sell my boat. I do not have it listed and I havent offered it up for sale. I told him no, and he thanked me for my time. Was my privacy violated?

It does in fact tell me something, but I dont think it tells you the same thing.

Now imagine ten people swarming around your boat and wanting to know if you're selling. Now imagine this happens every time you walk out of your house. Now imagine someone randomly pointing at your flower pot, which has no value, and wondering if you'd give it to them. Imagine this happening over and over again.t!

I'd just put up a big "nothing is for sale" sign.....

btw.. the last dozen or two pugs nobody asked me for any loot.

what server are you playing on?

Sorry but I'm still waiting for you to respond to my pretty long post. How is it different me manually broadcasting loot than if an addon does it for me?

maybe sometimes I dont have the time or patience to spell out the obvious.

in my experience hardly anybody lists their loot by hand anymore these days. thanks to this addon.

at most I get a lf item post.

if I want my peace from busy chat i simply disable the addon. not affecting anybody else.

without the addon. more will again by hand. or use ur addon version. the only way for me to stop that is asking others to stop doing it. but then nobody else gets the loot info either as its via group chat. and most times ppl wont give a flying f about my request.

This is a link to the terms of use for addons in ESO. Nowhere do they encourage their use. But there are several warnings about it.

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/add-on-terms

perfiction wrote: »

Actually no, you are wrong. Read the above and stop putting the blame on players/addons - they are not spying on anyone, they are reading public data.

It's not public data if you have to use specialized tools to read it.

You are intercepting information that is NOT made easily publicly available by zos but instead requires 3rd party software and making it public.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They aren't allowing it. They have ignored it but they haven't come out and specifically said they allow or endorse that addon. Add-ons are generally ignored until they cause problems and then ZOS takes a stance.

Of course they allow it. They have written their code in such a way that it is possible. And havent changed anything about it even tho there have been people complaining about it for years. While they have not made a verbal statement that is is allowed their actions heavily imply it being allowed. Until they say otherwise Zos is allowing use of a loot addon.
Loot addons have been around as early as 2014 btw and in 7 years nothing has been done to make them stop working.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

specialized tools to read it.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You are intercepting information that is NOT made easily publicly available by zos

You have no idea what you are talking about kind sir. Let's say you have your favourite weather synopsis website. That website has public API allowing to get weather information for specific regions. You decide to use that API in your mobile app to get weather info from them and show it on your lock screen (because why not). Does it mean that you are intercepting information that is NOT made easily publicly available?

No more responses to you, you have clearly no clue how ESO API works and how addons utilize it. They can't intercept information without ZOS permission. Addons can do only things that ZOS allows and utilize data that ZOS shares.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

perfiction wrote: »

Actually no, you are wrong. Read the above and stop putting the blame on players/addons - they are not spying on anyone, they are reading public data.

It's not public data if you have to use specialized tools to read it.

You are intercepting information that is NOT made easily publicly available by zos but instead requires 3rd party software and making it public.

that's like saying "some public records are not public records because you have to request them or go to the relevant offices to have access to them"

public records aren't only those the govrnement sends you home in letters.

group loot it is data explicitly made accessible by zos for the purpose of addons.

so yes it is public data. anybody that wants it can get it. and is allowed to have it by the powers that are.

All this must be an US server thing , in all my years on the EU - never once I saw an issue with this.
Been asked for gear , myself I have asked - ppl are all chill on the EU

robertthebard wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

a

spartaxoxo wrote: »

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

l. If ZOS didn’t want players to work together and share if they’re willing

The keyword there is "if they're willing," and ZOS does NOT support this in-game, it requires additional software to do.

which they allow. and encourage. it's the reason they even bother with an api. and added the function.

So they've never removed any addons, or disallowed certain functionality?

perfiction wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Depends. Did you have your boat in your driveway for all to see? Or did he peek into your garage when you had the doors closed to see that you had a boat?

Did you tell him he had a boat? Or did he ask someone else to tell him if you had a boat so he could ask you for it?

Your landlord (ZOS) puts a letter "Did you know that your neighbor @amm7sb14_ESO has a boat in their garage?" to every mailbox in the neighborhood. It's up to neigbors whether they want to read that letter or not.

Actually, it's more like a neighbor puts a remote camera in everyone's garage, so they can see what's going on, and then shares that frequency with anyone that wants it. The landlord has tools to monitor things in case the roof starts leaking, although they usually rely on tenant reports for that.

A better analogy would be simply using google. If your boat is in the yard it can be seen, regardless of whether or not you use that particular service. The things inside your house would be private the same the things in your inventory are. A condition or set of conditions must be met to be able to see.

In my case, we went fishing together.

@KalyanLazair
Flower pots and any other random objects dont really apply. In order for someone to see these items they have to grouped with me and at the time it dropped. Random people cant peek in and see, that makes that analogy a bit of a stretch.

Yes, my income is also mostly from motifs. It's normally the only thing I'll list. They come from the vet DLCs. A 1k recipe is insignificant and I wouldnt pay attention to it, which is why I encourage my friends to ask. They may not feel the same about it.

As I've said, I dont think that you can lay all of this on the people who use the add on. Its called the "middle ground" for a reason and theres more than enough evidence to suggest that it doesnt fall soley on the side of those using the add on(s).

The only time Ive ever considered the add on in any way to be unfair is when in a group of 12 (for example) and only 3 people run it. When that Sirorias inferno drops Ill be asked for it instantly. The 9 who do not use it may never even know it dropped. Since it takes all 12 players to run the trial (assume it does) then If I do not want it, every should have an equal chance. It would be better if the game just broadcast the loot without the need for the add on.

SilverBride wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Here is the thing. This add-on solves a problem and the "problem" it cause to other players like OP, there is a simple solution - say No and if they're still asking, add to ignore list. Simple as that. But there is no simple solution to not having this add-on.

This addon does not solve any problem. All it does is invade other players' privacy so another player can use your drops to complete their sets.

I am not responsible for helping a stranger complete their set, especially without my agreement to do so.

Why are you so against players having a way to block others from seeing their drops? What is unfair about that? If you can impose your wants on us why can't we protect our rights?

You don't want us to get a block because then you can't come to us asking for our loot. How fair is that? Why is your want any more important than our right to peacefully enjoy our game?

Yes, we can say "no" and I do. But it is still very annoying getting multiple whispers asking for your things. It's like having a swarm of gnats buzzing around your head.

They need to either give us a way to block this, or disable the addon and make group loot sharing toggleable. That is the only way that everyone can have things how they enjoy.

Tangent incoming but, ahhhhh! memories of AY dagger farming back in the day! I got two dagger drops in two consecutive runs once (after farming with nothing good dropping for me for I can't tell you how long). Not only did I get almost immediately spammed by nearly half the group on my first drop, some people were legitimately angry that I wasn't willing to trade my second dagger because it wasn't fair. Didn't matter that I had been farming for ages or that I was looking for two, and that's exactly why I was spending my weekend afternoons running the same trial over and over.

Thing is, you don't really have insight into what people have been doing with their time - they didn't know what I needed or how long I had been doing something. We're all just stuck on our own bad luck and other people's supposed good luck, so feelings of jealousy and entitlement can come really easily to us all. Having to argue with people and defend keeping my own stuff that I had been grinding put a bit of a damper on the experience, to be honest.

SilverBride wrote: »

This addon does not solve any problem. All it does is invade other players' privacy so another player can use your drops to complete their sets.

@SilverBride

It does solve a problem.

In one occasion, I was looking for a specific weight on a monster helm which seemed to have eluded me for the longest time. I always ask for it in group chat first after the dungeon is over. No one responded and the group disbanded (a lot of people just don't read group chats). I look at the add-on and saw it dropped for someone. I whispered him and he gladly gave it to me and I gave him some gold for it too. I get my monster helm and he gets some gold. Everyone wins.

Let's just say this add-on doesn't exist. People could easily just whisper everyone in their group and ask if they got the gear he needs.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

No. But I did and you disagreed with that statement. So you can't complain that I took your response as reply to my entire statement, when you made no effort to distinguish your disagreement. You can't expect me to be a mind reader. It's basic decency not to really.

I distinguished tho. I only said A and you read said A and made a B out of it. No mind reading required to know that A means A and not B. You are welcome.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

a

spartaxoxo wrote: »

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

l. If ZOS didn’t want players to work together and share if they’re willing

The keyword there is "if they're willing," and ZOS does NOT support this in-game, it requires additional software to do.

which they allow. and encourage. it's the reason they even bother with an api. and added the function.

They aren't allowing it. They have ignored it but they haven't come out and specifically said they allow or endorse that addon. Add-ons are generally ignored until they cause problems and then ZOS takes a stance.

Just because an add-on exists it doesn't mean that ZOS endorses it's usage. Until ZOS broke their functionality, people who used add-ons that ZOS did eventually break made the same excuses.

The fact of the matter is no add-on is endorsed by ZOS unless they specifically state it.

of course they allow it. the function being in the publicly accessible api is living prove of it. if you print it out. you can have it black on white.

I never said anything about endorsing. no idea why you pretend like i did.

I said zos encourages addons. the publicly accessible api is living proof of that. print out the api and you have it black on white.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

No. But I did and you disagreed with that statement. So you can't complain that I took your response as reply to my entire statement, when you made no effort to distinguish your disagreement. You can't expect me to be a mind reader. It's basic decency not to really.

I distinguished tho. I only said A and you read said A and made a B out of it. No mind reading required to know that A means A and not B. You are welcome.

No the topic of the conversation being had was "A and B"

You wanted to comment only on A, but did not specifically state that. So thinking you are responding on topic is NOT unreasonable. Common decency would have been to quickly say something to dismiss B as part of your statement, or to POLITELY clarify that your statement was not intended to answer the topic fully when confusion naturally arised as A and B were not distinct parts of the conversation. Instead, you replied condescendingly while extolling about decency. It's poor form. You're welcome.