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Catching The Idiot Ball
Sorpaijen_ESO
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Not sure where that expression comes from, but a friend of mine uses it to describe the situation where your character does something you, as a player, know to be totally stupid. Usually it's because a questline power-poses your character into selecting dialog / actions that are the ONLY choice, but you know to be stupid.
Case in point is the ghost-soldiers mission right outside Davon's Watch. I forget the name of the missions, but basically you have a choice to either FREE the spirits and side with the Argonian or you can attempt to ENSLAVE the Chimer soldier ghosts to help fight the Pact's enemies, siding with the Dark Elf brothers.
Most of my characters I play as perhaps impish rogues but basically good-hearted, so siding with the Argonian made sense and the storyline went along pretty much as I expected and all was good.
Since I had already SEEN that content, though, with my next character I sided with the dark elf brothers. Thing is, I knew going in that what they were doing was wrong, but my rationale was that that character of mine was a very pragmatic nord who heard "army of ghosts to fight for us" and didn't think about the COST and the inherent evil in enslaving spirits (she's a bit dim).
And surprise, surprise, it turns out the one brother was performing necromancy! Oh, Spoiler! But not really, because, come on, of COURSE it's necromancy! The "good" brother is shocked (Shocked, I tell you!) to discover how he (and apparently I) was tricked...
I am hoping that there will be some later story development based on this choice, but I fear it's a one-and-done kind of thing.
Trying to avoid a large spoiler, here, I'll mention a Stormhaven mission (Daggerfall Covenant character)...
A certain NPC has done something truly reprehensible but was coerced into doing so (driven insane/controlled - did not realize what was going on, not that the NPC felt forced to do something bad but didn't REALIZE it). So I have an option to have this NPC executed or not. On the one hand, mercy is generally considered a good thing, and the NPC in question wasn't in control of his/her actions at the time. On the OTHER hand, there will be "political ramifications" if I spare the murderer.
THIS kind of mission choice I ~like~. It's not immediately apparent that one choice is stupid or not. The end results of your choice COULD lead to problems down the road (that's the implication). But at least it's not blatantly obvious that you're teaming up with a moustache-twirling villain instead of a waifish innocent.
In the interests of seeing ALL the content, I've been trying to have my characters make different choices at these junctions... in many cases it's easy, since the choices are subtle and the ramifications not immediately apparent. It's just vexing when the choice is so clear and there's clearly one Right choice and one Wrong choice.
My 'alternate' characters have mutated in my mind to be roleplayed as a bit more powerhungry, pragmatic and short-sighted than my main characters in each faction... but even so, there are missions I run across where I find the choice to be a choice between the clearly "correct" choice.... and catching the idiot ball.
Case in point is the ghost-soldiers mission right outside Davon's Watch. I forget the name of the missions, but basically you have a choice to either FREE the spirits and side with the Argonian or you can attempt to ENSLAVE the Chimer soldier ghosts to help fight the Pact's enemies, siding with the Dark Elf brothers.
Most of my characters I play as perhaps impish rogues but basically good-hearted, so siding with the Argonian made sense and the storyline went along pretty much as I expected and all was good.
Since I had already SEEN that content, though, with my next character I sided with the dark elf brothers. Thing is, I knew going in that what they were doing was wrong, but my rationale was that that character of mine was a very pragmatic nord who heard "army of ghosts to fight for us" and didn't think about the COST and the inherent evil in enslaving spirits (she's a bit dim).
And surprise, surprise, it turns out the one brother was performing necromancy! Oh, Spoiler! But not really, because, come on, of COURSE it's necromancy! The "good" brother is shocked (Shocked, I tell you!) to discover how he (and apparently I) was tricked...
I am hoping that there will be some later story development based on this choice, but I fear it's a one-and-done kind of thing.
Trying to avoid a large spoiler, here, I'll mention a Stormhaven mission (Daggerfall Covenant character)...
A certain NPC has done something truly reprehensible but was coerced into doing so (driven insane/controlled - did not realize what was going on, not that the NPC felt forced to do something bad but didn't REALIZE it). So I have an option to have this NPC executed or not. On the one hand, mercy is generally considered a good thing, and the NPC in question wasn't in control of his/her actions at the time. On the OTHER hand, there will be "political ramifications" if I spare the murderer.
THIS kind of mission choice I ~like~. It's not immediately apparent that one choice is stupid or not. The end results of your choice COULD lead to problems down the road (that's the implication). But at least it's not blatantly obvious that you're teaming up with a moustache-twirling villain instead of a waifish innocent.
In the interests of seeing ALL the content, I've been trying to have my characters make different choices at these junctions... in many cases it's easy, since the choices are subtle and the ramifications not immediately apparent. It's just vexing when the choice is so clear and there's clearly one Right choice and one Wrong choice.
My 'alternate' characters have mutated in my mind to be roleplayed as a bit more powerhungry, pragmatic and short-sighted than my main characters in each faction... but even so, there are missions I run across where I find the choice to be a choice between the clearly "correct" choice.... and catching the idiot ball.
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Thete✭✭✭To be fair you can never have all the choices you'd like unless playing paper and dice AD&D. I have come across quests where the questgiver was quite rude and I'd have liked the option of telling them I'm not helping unless they smarten up their attitude, but I accept that there can only be so many reactions.
Apart from anything else, the insistence of having voice acting (which I know doesn't always seem to work) also limits the number of choices you can have.MMO PvE veteran looking for suitable guild:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/72899/mmo-pve-veteran-looking-for-suitable-guild-ebonheart-pact-templar-eu#latest0 -
Sorpaijen_ESO✭✭✭True; I just hope that there are not so many blatantly obvious choices in the future. So far there haven't been many that are clear-cut "wrong" choices, for which I AM thankful.
RE: Voice acting, though... pet peeve of mine that there seem to be maybe two female and three male voices for EVERYONE, and often the voice just doesn't match the face (old man voice, young face or young man voice, old face, eg). I realize they can't have as many voice actors as there are NPCs, but a bit more variety would be appreciated.
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Censorious✭✭✭✭I found an easy fix for the voice problems.
There's a setting in the audio panel to turn it off -sooooo much better.
'Clever' sigs get old real fast - just like this one.0 -
to be fair, Dunmer tend to continue having relations with their ancestors long after they are dead, in Dunmeri culture this is not considered necromancy, certain ancestors continue to be part of their families lives and are often bound to the families shrine, or if they were shunned or vilified, forced to guard over a family or even Noble houses' tombs etc... and given the time line we play in, many Dunmeri remains are sent to the Ghostgate, so they might strengthen the fence, keeping the blight and other horrors from escaping red mountain.
these things are not considered necromancy, i believe the brother is shocked , since, knowing how the dead, the ancestors should be treated , and learning that his brother has actually delved into a definite taboo in Dunmeri culture would be shocking. But dealing with ancestors and the dead are part of every day Dunmeri life. maybe that gives some clarity on the matter.0 -
To be fair you can never have all the choices you'd like unless playing paper and dice AD&D. I have come across quests where the questgiver was quite rude and I'd have liked the option of telling them I'm not helping unless they smarten up their attitude, but I accept that there can only be so many reactions.
Apart from anything else, the insistence of having voice acting (which I know doesn't always seem to work) also limits the number of choices you can have.
you are not 100% correct. They could have at least had options to turn on or deny the quest givers in a way that still produces a quest of sorts. I fear that when the thieves guild and dark brotherhood come out that it will for all intents and purposes, be mandatory to join them and there will not be an option to go against them. It will essentially work like the current mage and fighters guild, in that you either join them and get content r you just ignore the whole thing.0 -
Sorpaijen_ESO✭✭✭I always play thieves in almost any game, but my thieves tend to be ~thieves~ and not ASSASSINS. Of course, to see the content, in other TES games I played the Dark Brotherhood missions... some times they would send you against ~bad~ people so assassinating them didn't seem too bad, but there were some missions that actually made me feel bad for completing them, and that's the sign of good writing, right there.
In Skyrim, I did the Dark Brotherhood missions on one run-through because there were a lot of them and they had some neat stories behind them (I loved impersonating the Gourmand ) but in my most recent playthrough, I've sided AGAINST them. Unfortunately this means less content, and what there is, is boring (me toadying to the Guard when I'm a thief at heart).
While I expect to enjoy joining the thieves guild, I fear that SOME of my characters in ESO just won't be able to stomach the Dark Brotherhood missions. It would be neat, although diluting their narrative power, if we were able to circumvent the Dark Brotherhood missions somehow.
During the lead-up to ESO, I began playing Grand Theft Auto IV --- stick with me, this will be relevant --- and while there ARE a lot of instances where you simply do evil things, there were at least a few times when I was able to spare someone's life and lie about it to my superiors. ~I~ liked having that option --- even if it turned out my boss found out and I got in trouble, or the victim gets killed by someone else anyway... but those events at least advance the storyline AND let me preserve my sense of morality.0 -
I suspect we might have a choice between the Tong and the brotherhood. it is during this time that the brotherhood splinter from the Morag Tong, and we have already encountered the Tong.0
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Thete✭✭✭DanMan3395 wrote: »you are not 100% correct. They could have at least had options to turn on or deny the quest givers in a way that still produces a quest of sorts.
Would only work if there were enough quests in the game to pick and choose. It's a bit bare bones as things stand, and I suspect that will remain the norm for a while to come at least. With the stated aim (and necessity with a subscription game) of regular content updates, it is better to have a trickle of content than lots of content at once and then nothing for a while.MMO PvE veteran looking for suitable guild:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/72899/mmo-pve-veteran-looking-for-suitable-guild-ebonheart-pact-templar-eu#latest0