kargen27 wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

Not sure why someone would be opposed to a pve diil/ic server because it doesn't affect them. If you want pvp then you would choose pvp. Those who want to do the dailies without griefers would choose pve. This server isn't reflected of the true overall consensus as most people on these forums are pvp pc players. But i do often wonder why they put pve quests in pvp. PVP dailies should be pvp based.

It could affect PvP by not supplying new players to the content. The game depends in part on players doing different activities. Armor sets in trials that are good for PvP and skills found in PvP that are good for PvE are examples of dynamics in game to get players to try different things. Quests in Cyrodiil also does this. Players going to do the quests may find they like PvP and decide to join more often. I know that is what happened to me and others in my guild. Making a PvE only Cyrodiil could hurt the long term health of the game not just PvP.

There's a SLIGHT problem with the logic in that theory... Most players already know that cyrodiil is the pvp overland hub of the game. If they're going there... they almost always already know what they're getting into. Say what you will about the human consciousness, but I'm of the firm belief that most people have already decided what they want to get involved with and what they don't want to get involved with if they know what something is beforehand... It's why most if not all video game advertisements tell you what the game is about, and what to expect from gameplay, when they're releasing it to the public... few people just walk into a store and buy a product without knowing a single thing about the experience they're going to have with said product.

Such is how it is with pvp... I never see people just blundering into Cyrodiil without knowing Cyrodiil's purpose and that's how they end up getting exposed to and wanting to be involved with the pvp community. People go to Cyrodiil because they already know it's pvp, and they want to get involved with it... OR, they go to it because they want dyes and achievements, etc etc, from either the pve or the pvp content. You'd be hard pressed to find dedicated pve'ers who hate pvp content, having had a long history of distaste towards pvp content, going to cyrodiil to get the pve achieves and such only to come out saying 'I might try this pvp content'... People change, yeah, but change isn't easy when someone's mind is already made up about something...

The only thing a PvE version of cyrodiil would really affect, in regards to the PvP version that remains as it is, is that the PvP crowd would have a lot less fresh meat to slaughter that have no intention of partaking in PvP content, but are forced to engage in it anyway so they can get those coveted dyes and PvE achievements they're trying to earn. Instead, they'd have the steady stream of new players that come to Cyrodiil EXPRESSLY for the PvP content on the PvP server, and nothing else, making for a healthier PvP environment... in essence; this argument is like taking away the junk food and providing a more nutritious diet in its stead.

However... NO ONE... who likes junk food wants their junk food taken away. Believe me, I know.

@SshadowSscale wrote: »

Raltin wrote: »

@SshadowSscale wrote: »

You lost me at Tela drops should remain.... for real it is a pvp reward that should only be gained via pvp.... sorry but your tela farning dream won't happen

Then... why is it gained through pve activities such as slaying monsters, opening treasure chests, and killing boss mobs? The ONLY thing that makes Tel Var PvP is the fact that you can kill other players to steal half of their acquired total. Everything else about Tel Var is PvE... This is why I tend to dislike imperial city. I LIKE how AP is gained in Cyrodiil; killing enemies doesn't force the opponent you've killed to lose their accumulated AP, and you gain AP by completing war tasks and efforts such as taking keeps and other important locations. You CANNOT gain AP from killing monsters or looting treasure chests, and the ONLY thing that is related to PvE with AP currency is completing daily quests in towns that have nothing to do with the PvP in Cyrodiil.... that's it.

Alliance Points: completely PvP-focused with the exception of cyrodiil town daily quests.

Tel Var: entirely PvE-focused with the exception of being able to kill other players and steal a full half of their accumulated Tel Var yield.

AP encourages just normal pvp activity, Tel Var on the other hand? We all know how different the combat bars and equipped gear can be between effective PvE builds and PvP builds... To effectively gain Tel Var, you have to make yourself vulnerable to PvP builds... and all the PvP builds have to do to gain Tel Var is to shadow a PvE-built farmer, and proceed to gank the crap out of them when they're making their way back to base to deposit their earnings. Unlike AP, Tel Var massively encourages griefing and likewise makes it easier to kill players whose builds are equipped for taking on mobs, not other players.

Ah so this is a hidden pve telvar farm post then cool.... talvar was designed with the idea of fighting around it thus the reason why it was placed in a pvp zone and not pve..... albut of course the pve players want an ez telvar farm so this types of threads pop up to disguise the actual intent

Nope. I'd prefer if Tel Var was disposed of and replaced with Alliance points, actually, or some other currency that is gained through PvP only, since it IS gained in a PvP zone, after all. What I'm complaining about is the fact that you have these half-arsed PvE elements IN PvP zones that ENCOURAGE griefing of the PvE'ers.

This is also why in my original post that I argued that Alliance points should be completely removed from the PvE version of cyrodiil if it was ever added. Likewise, Tel Var from PvE IC, but if ZOS insisted on keeping Tel Var in PvE city, then the drop rate should be immensely reduced.

Sure, but no AP, no tell vars, no skill lines upgrades. Basically just you and PvE, nothing more.

"There's a SLIGHT problem with the logic in that theory... Most players already know that cyrodiil is the pvp overland hub of the game. If they're going there... they almost always already know what they're getting into."

This misses the point. Yes players know it is a PvP area. What they don't know is what to expect. Content and events entice them to visit Cyrodiil. While there they experience PvP. Some like it and decide to PvP beyond the quests and events. My first time there was fishing for the achievement. I died some (a lot) and was getting frustrated. Saw a message in zone chat about defending a keep and decided while I was in zone I might as well try. That didn't hook me on PvP but I realized there might be something to it.

What did hook me is trying to get to Imperial City again for fishing. Players from an opposing faction were camping the Imperial City entrance. The only way I could get in was hide until they jumped someone else then sneak in. Wasn't really successful. One night a guild member said she kept getting ganked by three people while she tried getting into Imperial City and asked for help. Several of us joined and the fights near the entrance is what got me finally interested in PvP. Were it not for wanting an achievement I doubt I ever would have visited. the zone. I'm not the only player that went to Cyrodiil for something else and decided that PvP was fun. Not by a long shot. Plenty of active PvP'rs had no intention of doing PvP when they first went to Cyrodiil.

JKorr wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

Raltin wrote: »

@SshadowSscale wrote: »

You lost me at Tela drops should remain.... for real it is a pvp reward that should only be gained via pvp.... sorry but your tela farning dream won't happen

Then... why is it gained through pve activities such as slaying monsters, opening treasure chests, and killing boss mobs? The ONLY thing that makes Tel Var PvP is the fact that you can kill other players to steal half of their acquired total. Everything else about Tel Var is PvE... This is why I tend to dislike imperial city. I LIKE how AP is gained in Cyrodiil; killing enemies doesn't force the opponent you've killed to lose their accumulated AP, and you gain AP by completing war tasks and efforts such as taking keeps and other important locations. You CANNOT gain AP from killing monsters or looting treasure chests, and the ONLY thing that is related to PvE with AP currency is completing daily quests in towns that have nothing to do with the PvP in Cyrodiil.... that's it.

Alliance Points: completely PvP-focused with the exception of cyrodiil town daily quests.

Tel Var: entirely PvE-focused with the exception of being able to kill other players and steal a full half of their accumulated Tel Var yield.

AP encourages just normal pvp activity, Tel Var on the other hand? We all know how different the combat bars and equipped gear can be between effective PvE builds and PvP builds... To effectively gain Tel Var, you have to make yourself vulnerable to PvP builds... and all the PvP builds have to do to gain Tel Var is to shadow a PvE-built farmer, and proceed to gank the crap out of them when they're making their way back to base to deposit their earnings. Unlike AP, Tel Var massively encourages griefing and likewise makes it easier to kill players whose builds are equipped for taking on mobs, not other players.

Ah so this is a hidden pve telvar farm post then cool.... talvar was designed with the idea of fighting around it thus the reason why it was placed in a pvp zone and not pve..... albut of course the pve players want an ez telvar farm so this types of threads pop up to disguise the actual intent

What about the players who want a pve cyrodiil, with the normal npc enemies, normal experience, and no telvar or ap? PVP rewards should be for pvp. If the only challenges in a pve cyrodiil are pve, then the normal pve rewards should apply. To counter your last comment, pvp players freak out when pve players ask for pve cyrodiil because that would remove the pve gank targets and all the easy telvar the gankers get from unprepared pvers. There have been threads where pvpers have admitted why they don't want a separate pve instance of cyrodiil.

Telvar is Imperial City and the Sewers. During double telvar events there are a lot of gankers in Imperial City. Not all the gankers are serious PvP'rs though. The people that are good at PvP tend to leave players doing quests alone. Not worth their time to run over and kill them. This is especially true in Cyrodiil where most the quests happen away from any PvP objective.