Do the new CP's convert at 1:1 or did it scale?

soniku4ikblis · March 2021

The only thing I notice is that I'm killing about the same with a tad bit less of dps that a few more seconds of fighting seems to take care of in Craglorn.

Getting a CP seems to take much longer though. I spent maybe 45 minutes and saw a CP point and that seemed super grindy.

However, me and my mates are pretty excited to go dungeon crawling again, so, I don't know. The ends justify the means.

remosito · March 2021

ApoAlaia wrote: »

As it has mentioned previously in the thread it as a 1:1 CP conversion.

The only way I have found to justify this to myself - had to do that due to the overwhelming amount of cognitive dissonance in: 'this decision is an absolute travesty that is causing me distress therefore I am going to keep playing and giving money to the company who made the decision that has been inflicted upon me.' is to consider XP a resource.

A resource you refine into CP therefore one you have refined XP into CP you no longer have XP.

Further down the line improved processes may allow to increase the CP yield of XP but that cannot apply to already processed XP.

As it turns out the currency analogy didn't work for me (hard as some fellow users tried to push that one) so I had to find an alternative.

There is also the direct analogy to real world experience, somehow more comparable, yet that made the cognitive dissonance even worse.

Not sure if this will help anyone else struggling with this conundrum but I though I'd share my 'escape route' just in case.

Some may think that I am being ridiculous but this was causing me some amount of mental anguish and I had to deal with it one way or another.

damn.. i wish i could trick my brain like that..

same boat different solution:

they screwed me out of 300M Xp. Not gonna support them until I have freeloaded it back off them.

300M is 2 years worth of enlightenment.

Cancelled eso+. wont buy chapters, dlc, crown packs anymore. Log on every 10 days. Do random daily on 5 chars with 100% ambrosia to burn enlightenment. Log off.

In 2 years I will be where I should rightly be now imo. With some luck we'll even have more slots by then...

ApoAlaia · March 2021

remosito wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

As it has mentioned previously in the thread it as a 1:1 CP conversion.

The only way I have found to justify this to myself - had to do that due to the overwhelming amount of cognitive dissonance in: 'this decision is an absolute travesty that is causing me distress therefore I am going to keep playing and giving money to the company who made the decision that has been inflicted upon me.' is to consider XP a resource.

A resource you refine into CP therefore one you have refined XP into CP you no longer have XP.

Further down the line improved processes may allow to increase the CP yield of XP but that cannot apply to already processed XP.

As it turns out the currency analogy didn't work for me (hard as some fellow users tried to push that one) so I had to find an alternative.

There is also the direct analogy to real world experience, somehow more comparable, yet that made the cognitive dissonance even worse.

Not sure if this will help anyone else struggling with this conundrum but I though I'd share my 'escape route' just in case.

Some may think that I am being ridiculous but this was causing me some amount of mental anguish and I had to deal with it one way or another.

damn.. i wish i could trick my brain like that..

same boat different solution:

they screwed me out of 300M Xp. Not gonna support them until I have freeloaded it back off them.

300M is 2 years worth of enlightenment.

Cancelled eso+. wont buy chapters, dlc, crown packs anymore. Log on every 10 days. Do random daily on 5 chars with 100% ambrosia to burn enlightenment. Log off.

In 2 years I will be where I should rightly be now imo. With some luck we'll even have more slots by then...

Is an acquired habit. Not sure if is healthy or not but it has carried me through life and kept the most insidious thoughts at bay.

Glad that you have found your own solution too

Elsonso · March 2021

ApoAlaia wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

As it has mentioned previously in the thread it as a 1:1 CP conversion.

The only way I have found to justify this to myself - had to do that due to the overwhelming amount of cognitive dissonance in: 'this decision is an absolute travesty that is causing me distress therefore I am going to keep playing and giving money to the company who made the decision that has been inflicted upon me.' is to consider XP a resource.

A resource you refine into CP therefore one you have refined XP into CP you no longer have XP.

Further down the line improved processes may allow to increase the CP yield of XP but that cannot apply to already processed XP.

As it turns out the currency analogy didn't work for me (hard as some fellow users tried to push that one) so I had to find an alternative.

There is also the direct analogy to real world experience, somehow more comparable, yet that made the cognitive dissonance even worse.

Not sure if this will help anyone else struggling with this conundrum but I though I'd share my 'escape route' just in case.

Some may think that I am being ridiculous but this was causing me some amount of mental anguish and I had to deal with it one way or another.

damn.. i wish i could trick my brain like that..

same boat different solution:

they screwed me out of 300M Xp. Not gonna support them until I have freeloaded it back off them.

300M is 2 years worth of enlightenment.

Cancelled eso+. wont buy chapters, dlc, crown packs anymore. Log on every 10 days. Do random daily on 5 chars with 100% ambrosia to burn enlightenment. Log off.

In 2 years I will be where I should rightly be now imo. With some luck we'll even have more slots by then...

Is an acquired habit. Not sure if is healthy or not but it has carried me through life and kept the most insidious thoughts at bay.

Glad that you have found your own solution too

In fact, treating XP as a resource that is refined into CP seems to be a good insight into what ZOS is doing. I don't feel like this is a trick or mental deception, but an accurate analogy showing how ZOS has implemented Champion Points. All they really need to care about is (1) how many CP you have, (2) how many XP you need for the next CP, and (3) whether your next point is Fitness, Crafting, or Warfare. Unless they are into trivia, I can't see why they would even store how many XP a player has spent on CP. It just takes up space in the database, and really is not needed.

NicGroover · March 2021

Well, I'll need 50 years to get to 3600 champion points so I'll be dead before then.

danno8 · March 2021

Yah there are two camps here after days of threads on the forums going back and forth:

Camp 1 believes that all the XP they earned past CP 810 in the old system was "theirs" and it should be applied retroactively to the new system because they put in lots of hard work getting that extra XP under the impression that one day it would pay off somehow.

Camp 2 believes that all the XP you earned after CP 810 was never promised to be useful in any way and players who believed they were earning extra XP to be applied to "something someday" basically made up that condition themselves and aren't entitled to it since ZoS never said anything about all that extra XP that was essentially worthless.

Pick your camp.

Ittrix · March 2021

danno8 wrote: »

Yah there are two camps here after days of threads on the forums going back and forth:

Camp 1 believes that all the XP they earned past CP 810 in the old system was "theirs" and it should be applied retroactively to the new system because they put in lots of hard work getting that extra XP under the impression that one day it would pay off somehow.

Camp 2 believes that all the XP you earned after CP 810 was never promised to be useful in any way and players who believed they were earning extra XP to be applied to "something someday" basically made up that condition themselves and aren't entitled to it since ZoS never said anything about all that extra XP that was essentially worthless.

Pick your camp.

Bluntly though, I'm not sure why the camps are even arguing. What exactly does camp 2 lose if ZoS makes what camp 1 is arguing for true?
Progression? Still plenty of horizontal.
Catch up? The new system drastically reduced the difference between non CP and CP, and CP is twice as easy to get regardless of where veterans start.

danno8 · March 2021

Ittrix wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Yah there are two camps here after days of threads on the forums going back and forth:

Camp 1 believes that all the XP they earned past CP 810 in the old system was "theirs" and it should be applied retroactively to the new system because they put in lots of hard work getting that extra XP under the impression that one day it would pay off somehow.

Camp 2 believes that all the XP you earned after CP 810 was never promised to be useful in any way and players who believed they were earning extra XP to be applied to "something someday" basically made up that condition themselves and aren't entitled to it since ZoS never said anything about all that extra XP that was essentially worthless.

Pick your camp.

Bluntly though, I'm not sure why the camps are even arguing. What exactly does camp 2 lose if ZoS makes what camp 1 is arguing for true?
Progression? Still plenty of horizontal.
Catch up? The new system drastically reduced the difference between non CP and CP, and CP is twice as easy to get regardless of where veterans start.

My belief is this:

ZoS chose the path that was a compromise between starting people all over again (or at least starting everyone from CP 810) and giving people full XP credit from the old system to the new (obviously a huge boost to everyones new CP number)

From ZoS perspective this accomplishes something else that is desirable for them; people will need to log in more and for longer because games are addictive a large number of their players are obsessive.

They knew that reverting someone who was CP 1800 to CP 810 would go over like cold butter on bread (you think there is complaining now?) so the compromise was the least damage they could do while keeping $$$ in mind.

Despite all the gnashing of teeth on the forums, most people will accept the new system and move forward.

Kiralyn2000 · March 2021

danno8 wrote: »

Yah there are two camps here after days of threads on the forums going back and forth:

Camp 1 believes that all the XP they earned past CP 810 in the old system was "theirs" and it should be applied retroactively to the new system because they put in lots of hard work getting that extra XP under the impression that one day it would pay off somehow.

Camp 2 believes that all the XP you earned after CP 810 was never promised to be useful in any way and players who believed they were earning extra XP to be applied to "something someday" basically made up that condition themselves and aren't entitled to it since ZoS never said anything about all that extra XP that was essentially worthless.

Pick your camp.

Camp 2A - all the XP you earned after 810 turned into more CP, which you are now able to spend like your previous 810 points. And just be glad ESO wasn't run like every other "level cap" game out there, because in that case, you'd have been playing all this time at CP810 & gaining 0 XP or CP beyond that.

(which is why I really don't get the complaints. People got this gift of all these extra CP they've been able to bank over the years, getting some use out of that XP they were earning while at the cap, when they could easily have been getting nothing. And yet they complain, and say they expected retroactive level recalculation, something entirely unreasonable that I've never seen any game do.)

Salvas_Aren · March 2021

Did Zeni ever do anything with an advantage for vets?

Its all about noob catering, the influx counts, not the veterans staying in game. They did their duty and bought stuff. They are exptected to leave and make capacity free.

Kiralyn2000 · March 2021

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Did Zeni ever do anything with an advantage for vets?

Its all about noob catering, the influx counts, not the veterans staying in game.

Every long-running MMO puts in "catch up" mechanisms like these (reduced XP curves, "boost a new character to 55", etc). Once you've got years of expansions & level cap increases, new players coming in are faced with climbing Mt Everest and it can easily put new players off.

And yeah, attracting new players is definitely important to any long-running online game.

Elsonso · March 2021

danno8 wrote: »

Yah there are two camps here after days of threads on the forums going back and forth:

Camp 1 believes that all the XP they earned past CP 810 in the old system was "theirs" and it should be applied retroactively to the new system because they put in lots of hard work getting that extra XP under the impression that one day it would pay off somehow.

Camp 2 believes that all the XP you earned after CP 810 was never promised to be useful in any way and players who believed they were earning extra XP to be applied to "something someday" basically made up that condition themselves and aren't entitled to it since ZoS never said anything about all that extra XP that was essentially worthless.

Pick your camp.

Third camp... the people who realize that it is not even about "XP earned". That XP has already been used to get the CP that they have, and people are not losing CP. My beef is a disagreement about how the new Champion System features compare to the features of the old one, not how many CP that I have.

Ittrix · March 2021

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

(which is why I really don't get the complaints. People got this gift of all these extra CP they've been able to bank over the years, getting some use out of that XP they were earning while at the cap, when they could easily have been getting nothing. And yet they complain, and say they expected retroactive level recalculation, something entirely unreasonable that I've never seen any game do.)

Consider that the reason we weren't playing other MMOs is precisely because they don't do that. Eso has been relatively tame for the last... forever. Veteran Ranks got converted to extra CP, and the largest any past CP changes have been is 30.
This time CP's vertical cap went up by 1000, 33 times over what any previous patch has done.
To be honest even WoW isn't that bad. The level cap didn't suddenly leap double in any of their expansions.

It's also a bit of a mind game trick, honestly. Neither way of looking at the system is wrong, and developers have flipped views before to make people less angry. WoW did it themselves. Bonus experience when you start playing for the day? That was previously an experience deficit after you'd played for a little while, and players previously universally hated it. Just took a flip of viewpoint, even though the numbers were exactly the same.
Doesn't work on me.
It doesn't matter how you view it. Veteran players don't get to use a good portion of the experience they earned in the past towards new CP, and I, and many other players, don't like that.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Rest#:~:text=One bubble of rested XP,current level) may be earned.

In the beta version of the original game, rest did not exist and experience was designed to prevent players from playing more than a few hours in a row. Experience gained was divided by 50% after few hours. However, beta-testers did not like it and rest was implemented, giving instead 200% of experience for few hours, which Blizzard's developers later reported as being the "same numbers seen from the opposite point of view"

AlnilamE · March 2021

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Translation: about half your xp disappears into dust and contributes to nothing.

Or, you still have the same CP you had, so you lost nothing.

again you do lose something... yes you will be able to spend the same amount of points, but the amount of points you can spend doesn't give the same result prior to the patch, aka they did a global nerf, people been getting less dps, heals and worse tanking capability as a result of this.
But considering your ignorance i see over and over again over multiple topics i can only assume you reached cp cap well before this update and therefore are not affected by it.

Then I'm doing it wrong, because I specced out my Templar Healer and took her into dungeons, and she's not having the sustain problems she used to have, and she's doing more DPS as well.

I'm actually having fun playing her again.

Ittrix · March 2021

AlnilamE wrote: »

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Translation: about half your xp disappears into dust and contributes to nothing.

Or, you still have the same CP you had, so you lost nothing.

again you do lose something... yes you will be able to spend the same amount of points, but the amount of points you can spend doesn't give the same result prior to the patch, aka they did a global nerf, people been getting less dps, heals and worse tanking capability as a result of this.
But considering your ignorance i see over and over again over multiple topics i can only assume you reached cp cap well before this update and therefore are not affected by it.

Then I'm doing it wrong, because I specced out my Templar Healer and took her into dungeons, and she's not having the sustain problems she used to have, and she's doing more DPS as well.

I'm actually having fun playing her again.

Base floor was brought up for low CP folks. If you're mid-range CP you're too high to notice the base floor, and if you're above that you 'lost' CP value and are behind.

I don't mind the base floor being brought up, but they could have done that without removing half the value of my CP.

remosito · March 2021

Ittrix wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Translation: about half your xp disappears into dust and contributes to nothing.

Or, you still have the same CP you had, so you lost nothing.

again you do lose something... yes you will be able to spend the same amount of points, but the amount of points you can spend doesn't give the same result prior to the patch, aka they did a global nerf, people been getting less dps, heals and worse tanking capability as a result of this.
But considering your ignorance i see over and over again over multiple topics i can only assume you reached cp cap well before this update and therefore are not affected by it.

Then I'm doing it wrong, because I specced out my Templar Healer and took her into dungeons, and she's not having the sustain problems she used to have, and she's doing more DPS as well.

I'm actually having fun playing her again.

Base floor was brought up for low CP folks. If you're mid-range CP you're too high to notice the base floor, and if you're above that you 'lost' CP value and are behind.

I don't mind the base floor being brought up, but they could have done that without removing half the value of my CP.

indeed. all of it could have been achieved not alienating vet players.

Having a hard time to hanlon's razor this one.

Gracous · March 2021

I finally got my orc templar to where he can melt most things. Now it sound like I'm going to have to respec him again! I don't get to do trials very often so this will be a grind for me. Oh well at least i will have something to do every day.

Matchimus · March 2021

So some players would be happy if pre patch I was say 150cp behind a player, than patch comes along & I am now 300 (guessimate) behind them? I then wonder who would be rage quiting.

Blue_Radium · March 2021

CP and EXP are attached. It's just as hard to delete our EXP so our CP stays the same, as it is to raise our CP so EXP stays the same. And don't get it wrong, that is exactly what is happening/must happen - the game is calculating our new EXP based on our CP, and deleting swaths of it, so that our EXP total syncs with our CP. A software engineer had to spend time coding a little delete exp service for update 29.

It's a move favoring newer players feeling like they have the chance to catch up and aren't too far behind, over veteran players feeling like their time and effort has been worthwhile and is benefiting them.

In practice, it's arbitrarily forcing dedicated players to spend a few extra months hardcore exp grinding, not having fun, while the casual/new players have the exact same experience of feeling behind at the end of the day. A good number of players will burn out trying to make up the gap that scaling up our CP to our EXP would have filled. Huge loss for the most loyal fans of the game, moderate net loss for everyone.

volkeswagon · March 2021

You will gain cp at a faster rate now than before.

remosito · March 2021

Matchimus wrote: »

So some players would be happy if pre patch I was say 150cp behind a player, than patch comes along & I am now 300 (guessimate) behind them? I then wonder who would be rage quiting.

they'd have more cp than without the scaling. doubt many would ragequit over that...