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Green Craft Tree Problems and Possible Improvements.(Long Post)

BlueRaven
BlueRaven
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The green “craft” tree has received a lot of criticism. In both structure and utility, this branch of the Champion Point (CP) system is by far the most unliked and controversial.

This post will discuss the problems in the tree and come up with possible fixes.

Overview
- Problems
-1) Micromanagement issues because of very situational "passive" uses.
2) “Gateway passives” and structure issues.
3) Wing Structure

-Solutions
4) Eliminate slot passives that invite micro managing.
5) Fixing Structure Issues by lowering the amount of “Gateway” passives.

Conclusion

•••

Problems

1) Micromanagement issues because of very situational "passive" uses.


Many of the slot or “active” elements in the craft tree have quite limited uses. This invites a sense of needed micromanagement of what actually has to slotted at any one particular time, even for rather mundane chores.

Professional Upkeep (1-50 CP) is a fine example of this. While powerful and deserving a spot in the green Craft tree, the passive is very situational. The player needs to be at a vendor and repairing, or this slot passive is of no use.

Meticulous Disassembly (50 CP) is another such example. Again a powerful addition to the Craft tree, but only used if the player is at a craft station and is refining. Slotting this item before refining and then taking it off afterwards seems to add an element of needless micromanagement.

Additional examples that are very situational uses is the two fishing passives Angler Instinct (25 CP) and Reel Technique (50CP). While powerful additions, the situational nature of these items makes their need to take up a slot feel pointless.

2) “Gateway passives” and structure issues.

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Two early elements in the Craft tree serve as obstruction or "gateway" passives. That also has become a much talked about problem with the tree. The placement of these two elements are circled in red.

Friends in Low Places (25 CP) is a very odd one. A once per day use item invites more micromanagement because of it’s limited usage and is also a “gateway” to passives beyond it. Again a very situational slot item appearing so early into the tree, seems oddly placed. Possibly forcing players who have no use for it to spend 25 CP just to get what lies beyond.

Inspiration Boost (15-45 CP) is another example of a gateway passive. Only useful to those that have not maxed out crafting, this only forms a pointless CP point dump for more experienced players. While it’s well placed for beginning players, it should have it’s own branch that does not block progression further into the tree for the more experienced.

Many players are finding that they have to plan their route through Wanderer (15-75 CP) and Steadfast Enchantment (10-50 CP) just to get around Inspiration Boost. I have circled these passives in Cyan.
While of more universal usage, these passives hardly feel “exciting” and again leave the impression that their placement was meant to purposely “dump” CP points into them before getting into the more exciting elements beyond it.

3) Wing Structure

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The Gateway passive issue leads to a larger issue with the "wings". Here circled in yellow.

The issue here is that the path through these wings seem to be dictated by emphasizing the edge of the cloak, rather than heeding to game play needs. So what happens is a series of rather expensive slot passives that players must travel through to get what lies beyond. If a player wants only a few of them, they are paying a high price to get past slot items they will never use and are "dead" as they need to have a slot to be useful. Or in other words, it feels like another pointless CP dump.

Solutions

4) Eliminate slot passives that invite micro managing.


Players should feel the need to re arrange their passives rarely. The tree’s structure and it’s many windows does not invite changing of slot items on the fly. But the rather "limited use" slot items do suggest that exact intent of micromanagement. This micromanagement does not allow for fluid game play. Instead, slot items should be reserved for passives that a player would want for the long term.

Homemaker (25 CP), Liquid Efficiency (75 CP) and Rationer (10-30CP) are fine examples of passives players may want to keep for the long term. There should be more of them to invite less "switching" of slot passives.

Here are just a few examples of new “passives” that players may want to slot over extended play time, that fit into the Craft tree.

-Heavy Sack Detection (CP scalable by detection distance) this ability would make heavy sacks “glow” to be more noticeable.

-Armor Degradation Avoidance (CP scalable by amount) if slotted armor degrades slower due to combat/death.

-Additional Motif Drop (Flat CP cost) similar to Homemaker, this has allows a chance to drop additional motifs.

More examples could include higher drop rates for antiquities and the like.

5) Fixing Structure Issues by lowering the amount of “Gateway” passives.

Putting additional paths through the “cloak” structure tree would help ease the “pain” of avoiding unwanted passives. Additionally moving Inspiration Boost (15-45 CP) lower and possibly to it’s own dead end branch, while replacing it’s position with a more attractive and universally used passive would also ease the flow up the tree.

Conclusion

The craft tree holds a lot of promise, but it misses the mark in a few key ways. An invitation to annoyingly micromanage the active slots and basic structure issues have cause many complaints and will continue to be a distraction on a rather interesting new idea for Champion Points. There are numerous balancing issues ahead for this tree, but it can be fixed.

Thank You

EDIT: I was under the impression that Rationer only worked when it was slotted and that the duration buff would be lost if taken out. Instead this is another "micromanagement" slot passive that should be adjusted so that it is something the player wants for the long term. Thank you @phantasmalD for the correction!
Edited by BlueRaven on March 9, 2021 10:01PM
  • Araneae6537
    Araneae6537
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    Thank you for this well thought out post! It well articulates the frustrations many of us are feeling with the green constellation, despite the addition of some cool new perks.

    I did not expect the QoL, most clearly horizontal progression constellation to be the most gated and restricted by slottables! I never ran into an issue with gating in the red and blue constellations and sometimes, after allotting my CP to what looked most beneficial for a particular character, I would find I had only taken three slottables, making me reconsider whether I would better spend my as yet limited CP on taking an additional rather than maxing the slottables I’d chosen or taking as many passives — so many options, I’m liking the combat constellations more and more!

    But now the crafting constellation. I don’t want to spend my limited CP on expensive slottables I won’t have space to use just to get to the ones I really want beyond! :frowning: The structure needs to be more radial as in the other constellations to allow players to focus on the options they want most and I would also like to see a re-evaluation of what is slottable as versus a passive. It doesn’t feel like a QoL improvement when one is working toward having a bunch of slottables they have to remember to juggle as versus fluid gameplay, as others have well explained. That isn’t meaningful choices but micromanagement which isn’t fun.

    On a more specific note, I think the Inspiration boost might be added to Meticulous Disassembly or even gold gain, rather than have a passive that will only be an impediment or CP drain for most of a character’s life.
  • Gythral
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    Inspriation can go into the bin!
    It's only useful for a tiny time slot & that it's gating other things when after 6ish monthe you never need it again is annoying

    But hey, so is the whole "Cannot do that" tree!
    “Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
    Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
    Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
  • Agnusthemagi
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    Agree with OP, sure is good to have options but this three suffers from an abundance of slottable abilities.

    Some more examples: gather faster and gather more both are slotable, faster gathering could be passive.

  • phantasmalD
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    Pretty well put together post, I share similar views.
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Homemaker (25 CP), Liquid Efficiency (75 CP) and Rationer (10-30CP) are fine examples of passives players may want to keep for the long term. There should be more of them to invite less "switching" of slot passives.

    But I must point out that Rationer is actually not a good example. The extra time is applied the moment when you eat the food buff and remains even if you unslot the star. So it's just as higly specific as many of the other stars and you wouldn't keep it on at all times.
  • BlueRaven
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    Pretty well put together post, I share similar views.
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Homemaker (25 CP), Liquid Efficiency (75 CP) and Rationer (10-30CP) are fine examples of passives players may want to keep for the long term. There should be more of them to invite less "switching" of slot passives.

    But I must point out that Rationer is actually not a good example. The extra time is applied the moment when you eat the food buff and remains even if you unslot the star. So it's just as higly specific as many of the other stars and you wouldn't keep it on at all times.

    Oh! I was under the impression that the extended time was lost! Sorry I was given wrong info about the mechanics of it. I will fix it tonight.
  • Starlock
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    Thanks for this, @BlueRaven !

    Patch dropped for us yesterday on console, and since we can't PTS, I didn't get a good feel for how significant the problems with the green tree are until yesterday.

    Conceptually, the green tree is by far my favorite - I've been wanting non-combat options to better define my characters for a long, long time. I don't so much mind the slotting, though there are some issues with that. The layout is what really gets me. I'm not sure they had good consultants among the storytelling/roleplaying crowd when designing this tree. For example, say part of your character's story is that they worked as a stablehand or are an expert rider of some sort. The craft tree stars related to that are buried really, really far into the tree and require a bunch of stuff that doesn't thematically make sense as a pre-requisite. It'd have made more sense to run the riding stars through breakfall, since a rider dismounted in combat is going to need to know how to roll with the force of that impact.
  • Araneae6537
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    Pretty well put together post, I share similar views.
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Homemaker (25 CP), Liquid Efficiency (75 CP) and Rationer (10-30CP) are fine examples of passives players may want to keep for the long term. There should be more of them to invite less "switching" of slot passives.

    But I must point out that Rationer is actually not a good example. The extra time is applied the moment when you eat the food buff and remains even if you unslot the star. So it's just as higly specific as many of the other stars and you wouldn't keep it on at all times.

    Wow, that’s another that should definitely be a passive then! Surely we can’t be meant to slot and unslot stars just to eat something, open a treasure chest, etc. I like the concept of choices and developing your character along different concepts but some should just be QoL rewards and make no sense to be slottable. The only choice is between tedious micromanagement and fluid but suboptimal gameplay. :confused:
  • Gythral
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    Whole fo that tree should be passive
    even if they have to realocate funds to servers to make it work!
    “Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
    Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
    Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
  • tc91101
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    The entire tree should just be passives. It's pointless to force players to switch back and forth. For example, if you are gathering plants you are probably going to want Master Gatherer, Plentiful Harvest, Steeds Blessing (pretty much always useful), Gifted Rider (possibly and useful in all over map tasks). The issue is most people that gather may also treasure box. So know you have to start swapping.
  • Jaraal
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    Pretty well put together post, I share similar views.
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Homemaker (25 CP), Liquid Efficiency (75 CP) and Rationer (10-30CP) are fine examples of passives players may want to keep for the long term. There should be more of them to invite less "switching" of slot passives.

    But I must point out that Rationer is actually not a good example. The extra time is applied the moment when you eat the food buff and remains even if you unslot the star. So it's just as higly specific as many of the other stars and you wouldn't keep it on at all times.

    Wow, that’s another that should definitely be a passive then! Surely we can’t be meant to slot and unslot stars just to eat something, open a treasure chest, etc. I like the concept of choices and developing your character along different concepts but some should just be QoL rewards and make no sense to be slottable. The only choice is between tedious micromanagement and fluid but suboptimal gameplay. :confused:

    It does seem counterintuitive to create unnecessary frustration bottlenecks to discourage folks from playing. I'm not sure what they were thinking with this.
  • DreadDaedroth
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    Shame some passive will be left forgotten because they are less benificial than others and majority of players will not bother to slot and unslot them.
  • Gylzyn
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    The OP provides a well-thought through argument. I do think that more of the skills should be passive and I agree that having to put points into unwanted gateway passives is a bad design.

    Another way that some of the irritations of this tree would be resolved is if the amount of points required by each skill was reduced. That way at least more of the skills would be available to slot (rather than having to redistribute skill points depending on the situation) and the slotted ones could be changed without cost (and could be achieved via an add-on for PC players). This doesn't, however, resolve the micromanagement issue.

    As others have said, the green tree is the one with the most QOL skills and horizontal progression yet it is the most gated and is the most limited by slottables.
  • Hotdog_23
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    Stop the micromanagement!!!

    Think this will be my new catch phrase.

    Thanks for sharing, really hope ZOS will listen rather then a wall of silence that we are getting now.
  • Zenzuki
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    ZOS....


    Please hire the OP!



    That is all.
    Can Open...
    Worms EVERYWHERE!
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